In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

(12-21-2025 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Stat of note:

In Xavier's 80-77 win over Georgetown, X shot 11-14 (79%) from the free-throw line. The Hoyas shot 25-43 (58%). That's how you lose a game. Disappointing.

The refs called 27 fouls on Xavier and 16 on GU. Yet the Hoyas could not seal the deal — and at home no less.

Bad loss for Georgetown.

It's crazy how much worse they have been since losing Iwuchukwu. He's a solid player but I didn't see him as that much of a difference maker.

Also worth noting that Cooley has been suspended one game for throwing a water bottle in frustration and pelting a child at the end of the game. Accidental obviously but still a terrible look for Ed.

Serious question. If Georgetown finishes 9th or worse in league play this year, is Cooley on the hot seat?

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

Sorry Bill but I respectfully disagree on this one. The fact Pitino only went 6-7 deep despite the foul trouble for Sanon tells me he doesn't have any real depth, at least not in terms of guys that he trusts. One could say the same thing about the size; Ejiofor and Hopkins are big in terms of being wide bodied, but neither is genuinely tall for the position which is another thing that can and will be exploited by good teams.

Pitino really whiffed on a PG this year and it's killing them the way it killed us whenever Diarra went out last year... The difference is at least we had Diarra lol. Would take him over Jackson or Darling on any team any day.

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

I hear what you're saying Bill, but St. John's problems go way beyond this one game. This high paid roster construction of St. John's makes absolutely no sense. Look at your own UConn team, you have Demary as a high impact point guard, but also got Smith as a more than adequate replacement to spell Demary when needed. St. John's lone point guard (Darling) is unable to get the ball down low, and can't even stay in the game due to continuous foul trouble, due to being over matched defensively. I don't mean to pick on him, but it was ridiculous to think he was the answer to a team that entered the season with a top 5 ranking.

Yesterday's game was typical of the insanity that's been on display. The two forwards Zuby and Hopkins attempted as many three point shots (8) in 56 combined minutes, as the three guards Jackson, Sannon and Sellers did in 82 minutes. Meanwhile the two main guards Jackson and Sellers had more rebounds than Zuby and Hopkins. Darling only played sparingly due to foul trouble. Last year Zuby was a force on the offensive boards, but this year seems to be playing exclusively at the top of the key, and is a non factor. Hopkins has also been a huge disappointment. Seeing him get an offensive rebound is as rare as waking up one morning and seeing a leprechaun in your back yard looking for four leaf clovers. It just doesn't happen. There is no chemistry whatsoever on this team. They are all square pegs. Pitino's substitutions seem to matter little, they substitute one square peg for another.

Pitino might right the ship enough to still make the tournament, and maybe even win one game before getting bounced by a top seed. But that's a huge let down from a team some of us had high hopes to be a Final Four contender this year.

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

It's not just 1 game though. They've played 4 teams this year who got votes in the AP poll this week. Lost all 4 games. Only decent team they beat was Baylor.

(12-21-2025 09:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

It's not just 1 game though. They've played 4 teams this year who got votes in the AP poll this week. Lost all 4 games. Only decent team they beat was Baylor.

Define “decent”.

I wasn’t able to watch most of the St. John’s game on Saturday, so, guys, tell me how St. John’s managed to have a 7 point lead at the half?

(12-21-2025 10:19 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 09:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

It's not just 1 game though. They've played 4 teams this year who got votes in the AP poll this week. Lost all 4 games. Only decent team they beat was Baylor.

Define “decent”.

right now Baylor is the only Q 1 or 2 team they beat. Their 2nd best win by NET right now is William & Mary. 3rd best is #92 Ole Miss at home.

(12-21-2025 10:22 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  I wasn’t able to watch most of the St. John’s game on Saturday, so, guys, tell me how St. John’s managed to have a 7 point lead at the half?

Kentucky played terrible. They missed several uncontested bunnies, that I still don't know how they missed. A pass went way over someones head on an easy fast break. But the big thing was Jaland Lowe went out with a shoulder injury. He returned in the second half and completely took over the game. Kentucky scored 25 points in the first half, and then 53 in the second. It was never more evident what a competent point guard can do for your offense. St John's rarely got a good look at the basket. No catch and shoot with your feet set. It's all running the weave outside the 3 pt line and someone finally trying to create a shot off the dribble. They have enough talent that they will beat the DePaul's and other weak teams, but they will be exposed badly when they play quality teams, with solid coaches that know how to exploit their weaknesses.

(12-21-2025 11:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 10:19 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 09:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

It's not just 1 game though. They've played 4 teams this year who got votes in the AP poll this week. Lost all 4 games. Only decent team they beat was Baylor.

Define “decent”.

right now Baylor is the only Q 1 or 2 team they beat. Their 2nd best win by NET right now is William & Mary. 3rd best is #92 Ole Miss at home.

So, basically you’re saying that ranking on the NET determines who’s decent?

Ken Pom has Mississippi at #60 and Greenfield has them at #65. I’d say that a team ranked in the low 60s is pretty decent and that a team like Baylor ranked inside the top 30 is more than decent. Their loss to undefeated Iowa State was by 1 point and they lost to Alabama, another top 15 team, by 7.

(12-21-2025 11:33 PM)Traderwill Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 10:22 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  I wasn’t able to watch most of the St. John’s game on Saturday, so, guys, tell me how St. John’s managed to have a 7 point lead at the half?

Kentucky played terrible. They missed several uncontested bunnies, that I still don't know how they missed. A pass went way over someones head on an easy fast break. But the big thing was Jaland Lowe went out with a shoulder injury. He returned in the second half and completely took over the game. Kentucky scored 25 points in the first half, and then 53 in the second. It was never more evident what a competent point guard can do for your offense. St John's rarely got a good look at the basket. No catch and shoot with your feet set. It's all running the weave outside the 3 pt line and someone finally trying to create a shot off the dribble. They have enough talent that they will beat the DePaul's and other weak teams, but they will be exposed badly when they play quality teams, with solid coaches that know how to exploit their weaknesses.

Thanks.

(12-22-2025 01:16 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 11:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 10:19 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 09:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 12:37 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  In response to the negatives about St. John’s, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on that one game. St. John’s had a 7 point lead at the half but I think that they wore down in the second half. Kentucky played 9 players for 15 minutes or more while St. John’s used only 6 players for that many minutes plus one more who saw 11 minutes. In addition, starter Jason Sanon was restricted to 19 minutes due to foul trouble. (He eventually fouled out.) Add to that the fact that Kentucky is big, using 3 players between 6-10 and 7-1. Ejiofor at 6-9 was the biggest player that St. John’s used for any significant minutes.

It's not just 1 game though. They've played 4 teams this year who got votes in the AP poll this week. Lost all 4 games. Only decent team they beat was Baylor.

Define “decent”.

right now Baylor is the only Q 1 or 2 team they beat. Their 2nd best win by NET right now is William & Mary. 3rd best is #92 Ole Miss at home.

So, basically you’re saying that ranking on the NET determines who’s decent?

Ken Pom has Mississippi at #60 and Greenfield has them at #65. I’d say that a team ranked in the low 60s is pretty decent and that a team like Baylor ranked inside the top 30 is more than decent. Their loss to undefeated Iowa State was by 1 point and they lost to Alabama, another top 15 team, by 7.

KP still has preseason numbers baked into it. Ole Miss was 24 preseason.

The Massey composite last week(before they lost by 14 to NC State) had Ole Miss at 78. Baylor was 40. So both far closer to the NET than those individual computers...

With being 10-12 games into the season, I think that we’re moving away from KP’s bias on last season. I usually give him until Christmas. Well, it’s Christmas week. Regardless, any flaws in KP’s system doesn’t explain the fact that Greenfield has them at a very similar rank and he does have the N.C. State loss factored in. NC State has very good metrics. A loss to them on a neutral court shouldn’t change things much.

Frankly I trust the individual computers more than the NET. And so do people who place bets on these games.

I guess we just say this one differently. Okay hy me. Time will tell.

(12-22-2025 09:46 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  With being 10-12 games into the season, I think that we’re moving away from KP’s bias on last season. I usually give him until Christmas. Well, it’s Christmas week. Regardless, any flaws in KP’s system doesn’t explain the fact that Greenfield has them at a very similar rank and he does have the N.C. State loss factored in. NC State has very good metrics. A loss to them on a neutral court shouldn’t change things much.

Frankly I trust the individual computers more than the NET. And so do people who place bets on these games.

I guess we just say this one differently. Okay hy me. Time will tell.

I mean, even if Ole Miss is 60-65- that's really not good for being 2nd best win of the year for St John's (at home to boot). It's not been a great start at all.

We'll know a lot more with St John's with a 2 week stretch in early to mid January
at Butler
at Creighton
Marquette
at Villanova
Seton Hall

Fair points.

St. John’s had the lead vs #4 Iowa State on a neutral court with 2 minutes to go. They lost by a point. Their season might be looking very different right now if they had been able to hang on and win that game. Missed opportunity.

St John's has the look of a team that will make the tourney but fall into that 7-10 line and be pared with a top 1-2 seed in a de facto road game in rd 2.

Well, they have 2.5 months to change that look. That’s why Pitino gets paid the big bucks.

(12-21-2025 08:12 PM)Nameless Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Stat of note:

In Xavier's 80-77 win over Georgetown, X shot 11-14 (79%) from the free-throw line. The Hoyas shot 25-43 (58%). That's how you lose a game. Disappointing.

The refs called 27 fouls on Xavier and 16 on GU. Yet the Hoyas could not seal the deal — and at home no less.

Bad loss for Georgetown.

It's crazy how much worse they have been since losing Iwuchukwu. He's a solid player but I didn't see him as that much of a difference maker.

Also worth noting that Cooley has been suspended one game for throwing a water bottle in frustration and pelting a child at the end of the game. Accidental obviously but still a terrible look for Ed.

Serious question. If Georgetown finishes 9th or worse in league play this year, is Cooley on the hot seat?

Unless the bottom drops out for Georgetown, I feel Cooley would get a fourth season (and be deserving of it). He's a good coach. Unfortunate that he lost his cool and tossed the water bottle. Fortunately nobody got hurt.

(12-21-2025 08:12 PM)Nameless Wrote:  

(12-21-2025 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Stat of note:

In Xavier's 80-77 win over Georgetown, X shot 11-14 (79%) from the free-throw line. The Hoyas shot 25-43 (58%). That's how you lose a game. Disappointing.

The refs called 27 fouls on Xavier and 16 on GU. Yet the Hoyas could not seal the deal — and at home no less.

Bad loss for Georgetown.

It's crazy how much worse they have been since losing Iwuchukwu. He's a solid player but I didn't see him as that much of a difference maker.

Also worth noting that Cooley has been suspended one game for throwing a water bottle in frustration and pelting a child at the end of the game. Accidental obviously but still a terrible look for Ed.

Serious question. If Georgetown finishes 9th or worse in league play this year, is Cooley on the hot seat?

It’s not clear how many years Cooley’s contract is for at Georgetown. I’ve seen reports that it’s as many as 7 years. If it’s anything close to that, then there’s a big buy out.