To further that point, the eastern six BE schools have one loss in aggregate (Dayton on a neutral floor in overtime) to non-P4 programs.

(12-18-2025 12:44 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  To further that point, the eastern six BE schools have one loss in aggregate (Dayton on a neutral floor in overtime) to non-P4 programs.

Yeah but like Nova- what do they have really? A win over Pitt is going to be at the very best a Q3 win. I mean, there's a reason why they would have to go 12-8 in conference play to supposedly be the last team in right now....

Each team is individual. As I've said repeatedly- conferences don't get teams in, teams get teams in. Seton Hall is positioned so much stronger than Nova right now.

(12-18-2025 01:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-18-2025 12:44 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  To further that point, the eastern six BE schools have one loss in aggregate (Dayton on a neutral floor in overtime) to non-P4 programs.

Yeah but like Nova- what do they have really? A win over Pitt is going to be at the very best a Q3 win. I mean, there's a reason why they would have to go 12-8 in conference play to supposedly be the last team in right now....

Each team is individual. As I've said repeatedly- conferences don't get teams in, teams get teams in. Seton Hall is positioned so much stronger than Nova right now.

I know nobody comes armed with more statistical data than you do Stever, so I'm hesitant to debate with you. But I do feel you're underestimating Nova's chances. While the opposition hasn't been great, they've solidly beaten everyone they've played, other than the two losses. Those losses weren't terrible. They were crushed by Michigan at Michigan, but who hasn't been? Even Gonzaga got murdered by them. Against BYU they were ahead with three minutes to go, they were more than competitive in that game. Kenpom, NET and other metrics all seem to like them. And finally if you look at other early bubble teams, who has that glowing of a resume? They have no bad losses which should also count for something. Clearly they have work to do in conference, but I believe 12-8, or possibly 11-9 with a win in the BET should be enough to get them in.

(12-18-2025 02:14 PM)Traderwill Wrote:  

(12-18-2025 01:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-18-2025 12:44 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  To further that point, the eastern six BE schools have one loss in aggregate (Dayton on a neutral floor in overtime) to non-P4 programs.

Yeah but like Nova- what do they have really? A win over Pitt is going to be at the very best a Q3 win. I mean, there's a reason why they would have to go 12-8 in conference play to supposedly be the last team in right now....

Each team is individual. As I've said repeatedly- conferences don't get teams in, teams get teams in. Seton Hall is positioned so much stronger than Nova right now.

I know nobody comes armed with more statistical data than you do Stever, so I'm hesitant to debate with you. But I do feel you're underestimating Nova's chances. While the opposition hasn't been great, they've solidly beaten everyone they've played, other than the two losses. Those losses weren't terrible. They were crushed by Michigan at Michigan, but who hasn't been? Even Gonzaga got murdered by them. Against BYU they were ahead with three minutes to go, they were more than competitive in that game. Kenpom, NET and other metrics all seem to like them. And finally if you look at other early bubble teams, who has that glowing of a resume? They have no bad losses which should also count for something. Clearly they have work to do in conference, but I believe 12-8, or possibly 11-9 with a win in the BET should be enough to get them in.

It really would depend on what the 11-12 wins are. If it's 9 Q3 and 4 wins and then 2-3 Q2 wins- I really don't think it'd be enough. And yes- it's absolutely bonkers that could be a realistic scenario....

(12-18-2025 12:43 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Though people seem to think the BE is down, it is actually slightly better than last year % wise and in Torvik. I see a different trend no one is talking about: the original six eastern schools are performing at a high level overall and the five western (and arguably lesser brands) are struggling- which if reversed would be a huge problem.

East:
UConn (potential #1 seed)
St. John's (top 25 team)
Nova (bubble team)
Seton Hall (bubble team)
Georgetown (wrong side of bubble but respectable)
Providence (wrong side of bubble but respectable- needs new coach)

West:
Butler (bubble team)
Creighton (bubble team)
Xavier (stink)
Marquette (stink)
DePaul (stink)

Interesting breakdown, Shizz.

And I agree with the bolded. If the Big East is going to see either its Eastern half collectively strong and its Western half collectively mediocre (or worse) or vice versa ... better the former scenario than the latter.

(12-18-2025 08:07 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(12-17-2025 07:28 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  So, Dayton had a commercial air during the Creighton-Xavier game

Marquette has been impersonating a basketball team the past four weeks. We might have an imposter in our ranks.

Not that I would want to see Marquette lose every game from this point forward, but ... the zingers and self-deprecating humor you could deliver on this message board would be stellar based on some of your previous posts (and regarding the struggling Golden Eagles).

Villanova and Seton Hall got the wins they needed and that the Big East needed.

(12-19-2025 10:35 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  Villanova and Seton Hall got the wins they needed and that the Big East needed.

Watched the whole Villanova game. Sucks they let that game go to OT because it should have been a 10 point win in regulation. They were consistently letting Wisconsin get it to within 5 but then would push the lead back to 10+ for most of the game. The only time they let them tie it was the very end of the game, then they dominated OT. Technically a neutral site but that was the epitome of a road environment too.

This was only the 2nd time I've seen them play this year (BYU being the other) but they looked really good to me, much improved from the BYU game. The offensive sets looked crisp, much better than they did under Neptune. Not Jay Wright level but Willard also didn't have a full off-season and will in all likelihood have more talented rosters than this one going forward. I think there are reasons for optimism at Villanova under Willard. I'm confident they will make the tournament this year. They'll need good wins in conference but I see them as a clear top 4 team in the league.

(12-19-2025 11:10 PM)Nameless Wrote:  

(12-19-2025 10:35 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  Villanova and Seton Hall got the wins they needed and that the Big East needed.

Watched the whole Villanova game. Sucks they let that game go to OT because it should have been a 10 point win in regulation. They were consistently letting Wisconsin get it to within 5 but then would push the lead back to 10+ for most of the game. The only time they let them tie it was the very end of the game, then they dominated OT. Technically a neutral site but that was the epitome of a road environment too.

This was only the 2nd time I've seen them play this year (BYU being the other) but they looked really good to me, much improved from the BYU game. The offensive sets looked crisp, much better than they did under Neptune. Not Jay Wright level but Willard also didn't have a full off-season and will in all likelihood have more talented rosters than this one going forward. I think there are reasons for optimism at Villanova under Willard. I'm confident they will make the tournament this year. They'll need good wins in conference but I see them as a clear top 4 team in the league.

I completely agree with your analysis of the game. I’ll add that they built that first half lead by hitting a ton of 3’s but then went ice cold from 3 in the second half.

Coaching matters. Willard saved their bacon. Clock management was superb. Adjustments in prep for the OT set them up for a good start in the OT. Good set plays. He used his time outs very well. I agree that their is reason for optimism at Villanova with him at the helm.

was watching the football but yeah, huge win for Nova. Makes the OOC really a sucess for them.

I watched the first nine minutes or so of the second half of Seton Hall vs. Providence. I wanted to see former Vanderbilt star Jason Edwards with Providence. Both teams looked very respectable. A quality win for the Pirates.

And Nova reps the BE well win a win over Wisconsin.

(12-20-2025 08:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I watched the first nine minutes or so of the second half of Seton Hall vs. Providence. I wanted to see former Vanderbilt star Jason Edwards with Providence. Both teams looked very respectable. A quality win for the Pirates.

And Nova reps the BE well win a win over Wisconsin.

I thought that the intensity of the defense by both teams in the Providence-Seton Hall game was special. It made it an ugly game to watch - especially for the first 10 minutes when the score was 10-10 at the 10-minute mark. Providence couldn’t buy a 3, shot 22% from 3 for the game. It’s like there was a lid on the basket for them. Credit the SH D.

(12-20-2025 09:45 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(12-20-2025 08:54 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I watched the first nine minutes or so of the second half of Seton Hall vs. Providence. I wanted to see former Vanderbilt star Jason Edwards with Providence. Both teams looked very respectable. A quality win for the Pirates.

And Nova reps the BE well win a win over Wisconsin.

I thought that the intensity of the defense by both teams in the Providence-Seton Hall game was special. It made it an ugly game to watch - especially for the first 10 minutes when the score was 10-10 at the 10-minute mark. Providence couldn’t buy a 3, shot 22% from 3 for the game. It’s like there was a lid on the basket for them. Credit the SH D.

Your Friars looked very respectable from the one-fourth of the game I saw. Solid team. The Hall is good. Big Dance material.

Bad loss for SJU today. I know a road game against Kentucky isn't easy, but they lost by 12. They (and the league) really needed that win but instead put up a stinker

is St John's the 2nd best team in the league right now?

(12-20-2025 11:02 PM)stever20 Wrote:  is St John's the 2nd best team in the league right now?

I think St. John's, Nova, SH, Butler and even Creighton all have a shot at 2nd. Pitino finally admitted today what everyone has known all along, they have no point guard, and that the staff whiffed horribly this past off season, filling that vital position. At this point i think the odds are higher that Pitino hangs it up after this season, than of the Johnnies getting out of the first weekend should they make the NCAA's. Just a horrible disappointment. The big question is does Repole step up again next year after getting burned so badly this year.

Big East goes 2-1 against the all-sports P-4 this weekend. Well done.

Of note, the one loss likely exposed Saint John's for having entered the season overrated. SJU likely will fall from the Top 25 rankings. On a positive note, Seton Hall could enter the rankings.

As to the BE's "second-best" team, I agree with Traderwill that multiple teams have a shot at it. My bet is on Villanova (quality win vs. Wisconsin).

From what I've seen of the league this season, and other than UConn, there likely is no Elite Eight-type team (much less a Final Four-caliber team). However, we know the dynamics can change as the season progresses. Perhaps come late March and Seton Hall is in the Final Four and UConn is not. Lots of hoops to be played.

Stat of note:

In Xavier's 80-77 win over Georgetown, X shot 11-14 (79%) from the free-throw line. The Hoyas shot 25-43 (58%). That's how you lose a game. Disappointing.

The refs called 27 fouls on Xavier and 16 on GU. Yet the Hoyas could not seal the deal — and at home no less.

Bad loss for Georgetown.

(12-21-2025 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Stat of note:

In Xavier's 80-77 win over Georgetown, X shot 11-14 (79%) from the free-throw line. The Hoyas shot 25-43 (58%). That's how you lose a game. Disappointing.

The refs called 27 fouls on Xavier and 16 on GU. Yet the Hoyas could not seal the deal — and at home no less.

Bad loss for Georgetown.

Georgetown is done. All the equity they gained by beating Maryland and Clemson has evaporated.

(12-21-2025 08:57 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Stat of note:

In Xavier's 80-77 win over Georgetown, X shot 11-14 (79%) from the free-throw line. The Hoyas shot 25-43 (58%). That's how you lose a game. Disappointing.

The refs called 27 fouls on Xavier and 16 on GU. Yet the Hoyas could not seal the deal — and at home no less.

Bad loss for Georgetown.

No excuse for Georgetown missing all those free throws, once again proving that free throws win games.