RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 10:45 AM)olliebaba Wrote: In the peace deal it states that Ukraine can only have 600k in their standing Army, there's no stipulation where they can't have a national guard. Like Israel, Ukraine can go that route.
600,000 is about what the U.S. has worldwide for active duty Army and Marine corps...combined.
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 12:43 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:
(11-21-2025 10:45 AM)olliebaba Wrote: In the peace deal it states that Ukraine can only have 600k in their standing Army, there's no stipulation where they can't have a national guard. Like Israel, Ukraine can go that route.
600,000 is about what the U.S. has worldwide for active duty Army and Marine corps...combined.
And if its army was 100% armed with modern weapons, had nukes, a big navy, had a huge arsenal of modern accurate long range cruise missiles, and was backed the worlds most powerful air force---that would be more than enough troops to deter Russia. Their army has over 600K right now and Russia doesnt seem deterred---so cutting the size seems counterproductive.
That said---if we intend to sell them all the arms needed turn them into a porcupine-bristling with long range ballistic and cruise missiles along with a powerful modern air force capable of controlling the skies----maybe 600K well armed troops might be enough to work as a deterrent. Its all about the details.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 03:13 PM by Attackcoog.)
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 12:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:
(11-21-2025 03:33 AM)TripleA Wrote: Okay, I haven't read every word yet, but unless Ukraine somehow thinks they can recover all their territory, I don't see the issue. Trump's strategy is to stop the killing.
Looks like Russia gets the occupied territory plus the disputed part, and Ukraine gets a full security guarantee from the US, which it has not had before.
If Russia invades Ukraine again, all agreements are off, and the US will back Ukraine.
How is this a bad deal for Ukraine? They get to keep most of their country, and have security guarantees from the US. And most of all, the war is stopped.
Its a bad deal because the fortress like multi-layered prepared defense lines in the Luhansk and Donesk area's that have stymied the Russian advance since 2014 would be given up---meaning Ukraine would become MUCH more vulnerable to successful future breakthrough Russian attacks. Also---the details of the security "guarantees" (which are not clearly defined in the overview posted) would have to be darn near NATO Article 5 level guarantees to make it worth giving up their prepared fortress defense line while slashing their military size to the degree proposed.
That said---to me---I dont think its so far from being viable that it cant become the basis for a deal. I still think the most easily implemented deal is a freeze along the existing lines (Russia gets the land they have taken) and Ukraine gets robust near NATO Article 5 security guarantees (with the US and at least one other nuclear power being among the guarantors). Remember---both sides dont trust each other, so asking one side to cut its military and pull back from its best prepared defensive positions----without any other nations troops on site acting as buffer to deter further Russian advances is a lot to ask. That said---I dont think the 28 point deal is all that far from being acceptable---it just needs more detail---especially when it comes to the security guarantees.
Yeah, I agree with you about the location of the line of defense. No bueno for Ukraine. I just don't care enough to type any more than this about it, or argue with anyone over it.
I honestly don't care what happens, period. Ukraine was part of the USSR my entire life. Didn't affect me any.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 01:35 PM by TripleA.)
“Russia’s takeover of Kupyansk, described by experts as a major blow to Ukraine’s command and defenses, exposes the gap between official claims and the situation on the ground.”
Russian military analyst Andrey Marochko told RIA Novosti that the loss of Kupyansk will deal a double blow to Ukraine’s command structure — damaging its reputation and destabilizing the entire defensive line in this sector.
He stressed that for Kiev, the fall of Kupyansk is a painful setback. The city served as a pivotal hub, crucial both for logistics and for maintaining the front.”
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 01:57 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Hey ********.:::what is the average age of Ukrainians dying on the battle field right now?
I'll wait for you to check with other retards on blue sky to answer.
I'll give you a hint. The average age of every person in uniform for Ukraine is getting very close to 50 years old. For those of us who actually raised their hand and swore in to you know actually serve this country and uniform who are in their 50s. I can tell you right now that's not a very effective fighting force. And they aren't even training them anymore. Here's your helmet...good luck, gramps..
The term fighting aged men almost uniformly references able-bodied men between the ages of 18 and 30-35. Ukraine is starting to look very similar to Germany after World War I where nearly all of the men that were born between 1890 and 1899 were just gone into pink mist.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 03:25 PM by rath v2.0.)
“Russia’s takeover of Kupyansk, described by experts as a major blow to Ukraine’s command and defenses, exposes the gap between official claims and the situation on the ground.”
Russian military analyst Andrey Marochko told RIA Novosti that the loss of Kupyansk will deal a double blow to Ukraine’s command structure — damaging its reputation and destabilizing the entire defensive line in this sector.
He stressed that for Kiev, the fall of Kupyansk is a painful setback. The city served as a pivotal hub, crucial both for logistics and for maintaining the front.”
If the Ukrainian Army only has about 900K, and the Russians have killed off 1.7 million Ukrainian soldiers----why isnt the Russian Army in Kyiv by now? Car trouble? GPS not working?
Sounds like propaganda aimed at Trump perhaps? Just a guess. Maybe they want him to think the Russians are only weeks away from victory---assuming that would make it less likely Trump would push the Russians to make reasonable concessions.
"The lack of manpower is allowing Russia to employ what Ukraine's commander in chief, Oleksandr Syrskiy, recently called "total infiltration" tactics. Small infantry groups make it through Ukrainian lines -- including into Pokrovsk, the key city in the Donetsk region that is likely the main target of Russia's current offensive."
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 01:34 PM)TripleA Wrote:
(11-21-2025 12:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:
(11-21-2025 03:33 AM)TripleA Wrote: Okay, I haven't read every word yet, but unless Ukraine somehow thinks they can recover all their territory, I don't see the issue. Trump's strategy is to stop the killing.
Looks like Russia gets the occupied territory plus the disputed part, and Ukraine gets a full security guarantee from the US, which it has not had before.
If Russia invades Ukraine again, all agreements are off, and the US will back Ukraine.
How is this a bad deal for Ukraine? They get to keep most of their country, and have security guarantees from the US. And most of all, the war is stopped.
Its a bad deal because the fortress like multi-layered prepared defense lines in the Luhansk and Donesk area's that have stymied the Russian advance since 2014 would be given up---meaning Ukraine would become MUCH more vulnerable to successful future breakthrough Russian attacks. Also---the details of the security "guarantees" (which are not clearly defined in the overview posted) would have to be darn near NATO Article 5 level guarantees to make it worth giving up their prepared fortress defense line while slashing their military size to the degree proposed.
That said---to me---I dont think its so far from being viable that it cant become the basis for a deal. I still think the most easily implemented deal is a freeze along the existing lines (Russia gets the land they have taken) and Ukraine gets robust near NATO Article 5 security guarantees (with the US and at least one other nuclear power being among the guarantors). Remember---both sides dont trust each other, so asking one side to cut its military and pull back from its best prepared defensive positions----without any other nations troops on site acting as buffer to deter further Russian advances is a lot to ask. That said---I dont think the 28 point deal is all that far from being acceptable---it just needs more detail---especially when it comes to the security guarantees.
Yeah, I agree with you about the location of the line of defense. No bueno for Ukraine. I just don't care enough to type any more than this about it, or argue with anyone over it.
I honestly don't care what happens, period. Ukraine was part of the USSR my entire life. Didn't affect me any.
"The lack of manpower is allowing Russia to employ what Ukraine's commander in chief, Oleksandr Syrskiy, recently called "total infiltration" tactics. Small infantry groups make it through Ukrainian lines -- including into Pokrovsk, the key city in the Donetsk region that is likely the main target of Russia's current offensive."
Hey, that dumb ass probably knows a lot about the military because he played call of duty instead of ever talking to women.
This ******* dummies just make you shake your head
"The lack of manpower is allowing Russia to employ what Ukraine's commander in chief, Oleksandr Syrskiy, recently called "total infiltration" tactics. Small infantry groups make it through Ukrainian lines -- including into Pokrovsk, the key city in the Donetsk region that is likely the main target of Russia's current offensive."
Hey, that dumb ass probably knows a lot about the military because he played call of duty instead of ever talking to women.
This ******* dummies just make you shake your head
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 10:19 AM)olliebaba Wrote: I think it's a good deal. Ukraine isn't gonna get any more land back and they'll be lucky they retain their sovereignty.
But...with matters concerning Russia, we can only hope that they honor the treaty...but what else can be done? We have to hope that at least no more people on both sides get killed and that's a great thing for both parties. No one wants their children and husbands fighting and dying. No treaty can give everything the other wants, this one is viable.
Everyone here has been saying that the only way this war would end would be for Ukraine to give up the territory Russia has gained and that's what has happened. I knew that and I'm just a commoner.
This agreement gives Russia land they have not conquered. It gives them land Ukraine has built very strong defenses for and set up killing zones for when they pull back from Pokrovsk. A city Putin was told by his military was surrounded and would fall in six days. That was a year ago and some ungodly number of Russians killed. So no, this isn’t a great deal for Ukraine.
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The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
