(09-14-2024 09:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do

Have you read The Fair Tax Book by John Linder and Neal Boortz? What's outlined in that is how I would do it. They answer every single question you've put forth. First, the rate would be around twenty-two percent on every single non-essential item (essentials being food and clothing) on the market today, which would basically be similar to how prices are today. (I forget how they did the math in the book, but they insist that prices would largely be the same.) Also, any and all goods resold would not have a sales tax on it. It would only apply to brand new items. I should furthermore emphasize that the point of this is to have EVERYBODY in the country pay to fund the government since around half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes due to tax minimum thresholds, tax exemptions, and tax loopholes.

Another option would be a flat income tax of ten percent. Now this would only work without having any tax exemptions or loopholes. I admit this part wouldn't be very popular. But considering that the vast majority of taxes are paid by the richest twenty-five percent of the population, I think this would be fair, too. Again, the point is to have everybody pay so they'd have some "skin in the game."

Well, those are two ways I'd do it, anyway.

I’d pay a flat 10% in a heartbeat.

22% consumption tax would also lower my taxes.

Both of these tax plans are fairly regressive, shifting tax burden from the upper middle class down. The flat tax would potentially increase the taxes on the ultra wealth.

Honestly the best way to actually get the ultra wealthy to pay taxes is to kill off the step up basis on over about $50M or tax withdrawals from asset secured lines of credit as income to kill off “buy, borrow, die” and let your kids take the assets with step up basis never paying taxes.

not me, I cheat my way down to less than 8% every year!

(09-14-2024 09:55 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(09-14-2024 09:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do

Have you read The Fair Tax Book by John Linder and Neal Boortz? What's outlined in that is how I would do it. They answer every single question you've put forth. First, the rate would be around twenty-two percent on every single non-essential item (essentials being food and clothing) on the market today, which would basically be similar to how prices are today. (I forget how they did the math in the book, but they insist that prices would largely be the same.) Also, any and all goods resold would not have a sales tax on it. It would only apply to brand new items. I should furthermore emphasize that the point of this is to have EVERYBODY in the country pay to fund the government since around half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes due to tax minimum thresholds, tax exemptions, and tax loopholes.

Another option would be a flat income tax of ten percent. Now this would only work without having any tax exemptions or loopholes. I admit this part wouldn't be very popular. But considering that the vast majority of taxes are paid by the richest twenty-five percent of the population, I think this would be fair, too. Again, the point is to have everybody pay so they'd have some "skin in the game."

Well, those are two ways I'd do it, anyway.

I’d pay a flat 10% in a heartbeat.

22% consumption tax would also lower my taxes.

Both of these tax plans are fairly regressive, shifting tax burden from the upper middle class down. The flat tax would potentially increase the taxes on the ultra wealth.

Honestly the best way to actually get the ultra wealthy to pay taxes is to kill off the step up basis on over about $50M or tax withdrawals from asset secured lines of credit as income to kill off “buy, borrow, die” and let your kids take the assets with step up basis never paying taxes.

not me, I cheat my way down to less than 8% every year!

I’m all W2 so I’m knocking down about 24% effective last year.

(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

The Bahamas has no income tax and a 10% VAT. There is a pretty significant exemption for First-Time homebuyers (up to $500,000) and a VAT holiday in August/September similar to the sales tax holiday many US states have now.

One structural advantage The Bahamas has is that about 24 times the country's population arrives as tourists each year. Virtually everyone on Earth outside the US would have to visit the US each year for the US to enjoy that level of international tourism.