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Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
He's campaigning for the working man vote who are Legacy Democrat voters & just gonna turn off more of the Establishment Republican vote.

Everyday he's more & more 90s Democrat & 90s Democrats vote Democrat!
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2024 10:38 AM by Bronco'14.)
09-13-2024 10:37 AM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 10:37 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  He's campaigning for the working man vote who are Legacy Democrat voters & just gonna turn off more of the Establishment Republican vote.

Everyday he's more & more 90s Democrat & 90s Democrats vote Democrat!
He's always been a Kennedy/Clinton Democrat. It's a stretch to say lowering taxes is gonna "turn off more of the Establishment Republican vote". What is a "Establishment Republican"? The Bushes? The Cheney's? THEY are Democrats in Republican clothing.
09-13-2024 10:42 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 06:51 AM)gdunn Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 06:48 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 06:41 AM)gdunn Wrote:  How do we know this was said... Kamala said that nobody watches his rallies....

Anyway.. I don't see this as a bad thing nor do I see it as a good thing either...

I don't see it as a thing period since the President doesn't decide tax law. Tips, SS, Overtime, etc are just campaign trail words.

Now if he made a announcement with Johnson about legislation that would be brought to his desk Spring 2025 it would have a lot more validity.

Good point..

In all honesty, the same point can be made for tips and taxes, the changing of the insta deduction of startup costs to 50k, the increase in child tax credit, and the new homeowners plunkdown.

In fact pretty much all the policies from the candidates fall into that category.
09-13-2024 11:00 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #44
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 11:00 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 06:51 AM)gdunn Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 06:48 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 06:41 AM)gdunn Wrote:  How do we know this was said... Kamala said that nobody watches his rallies....

Anyway.. I don't see this as a bad thing nor do I see it as a good thing either...

I don't see it as a thing period since the President doesn't decide tax law. Tips, SS, Overtime, etc are just campaign trail words.

Now if he made a announcement with Johnson about legislation that would be brought to his desk Spring 2025 it would have a lot more validity.

Good point..

In all honesty, the same point can be made for tips and taxes, the changing of the insta deduction of startup costs to 50k, the increase in child tax credit, and the new homeowners plunkdown.

In fact pretty much all the policies from the candidates fall into that category.

How do you turn democrat voters into republicans?


By do what you say, that's how. I believe, may be wrong, but the "new" republican is starting to see if they want to hold on to power they will have to make gains on former democrat voters.

So if Trump is elected he's going to push hard for the things he ran on. Trump is riding off in the sunset after 4 years. So republican law makers will either get behind what he's pushing. Or they will be made into the bad guys and lose those "working American" vote. Maybe forever. Once that happens....

kiss the white house good bye for a very long time

30 years from now if the republicans follow Trump's lead on this this period of time will be looked back on as when both parties reversed course....

just like when the past when republicans were considered antislavery and democrats pro. And then when the democrats were for working America and republicans pro cooperate.

If Trump wins and they fight him and not pass a version of this....

republicans just turned this country over to the far left.

Make no mistake about it, If Trump wins he's going to push and push for what he ran on. It's going to be up to the republicans house and senate to define which way the party wants to go...

pro worker or not

This is something the democrats can't win on if they push back and vote NO on any vote that lowers taxes on WORKING AMERICANS. So even a democrat controlled house has their hands tied and can not stand in the way of this tax cut....

if Trump pushes it to the people
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2024 11:25 AM by WKUYG.)
09-13-2024 11:16 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #45
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
My argument is not if its a good or bad move (helps/hurts) it a argument that if Trump wins....

this will get passed or the party that stops it will pay a very heavy price at the polls the next election.
09-13-2024 11:28 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 10:37 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  He's campaigning for the working man vote who are Legacy Democrat voters & just gonna turn off more of the Establishment Republican vote.

Everyday he's more & more 90s Democrat & 90s Democrats vote Democrat!

You missed it by a decade. Reagan Democrats.

Working folks who are democrat by family tradition.
09-13-2024 11:48 AM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-12-2024 06:05 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 05:44 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I keep trying to think what's the downside to this... I mean if you keep the standard labor laws in effect...

I thought the same as you did at first Stink, but I'm not seeing it off the top of my head unless I"m just blindspotted at the moment.

I'm not seeing the downside to this ever. 01-wingedeagle

Okay,. someone just relayed to me a downside to this in part.

Trucker's cannot do over 70 hours per two weeks, so officially they cannot earn overtime, even if they were to do a spread such as 45/25 hours. Those 5 extra hours on week one do not count as overtime, because they're on a bi-weekly pay plan.
09-13-2024 11:53 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I will like to see, "no taxes on active military members". They have it bad enough trying to maintain a home with the pay they get and the way they are deployed numerous times. If the GI works a second job then that pay will be taxed but not the one given by Uncle Sam. If they separate from the service then that benefit goes away.

I'm a veteran and I think ONLY the active GI should be able to benefit. Maybe, just maybe it will also get more recruits.

How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)
09-13-2024 11:56 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #49
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 11:53 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 06:05 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 05:44 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I keep trying to think what's the downside to this... I mean if you keep the standard labor laws in effect...

I thought the same as you did at first Stink, but I'm not seeing it off the top of my head unless I"m just blindspotted at the moment.

I'm not seeing the downside to this ever. 01-wingedeagle

Okay,. someone just relayed to me a downside to this in part.

Trucker's cannot do over 70 hours per two weeks, so officially they cannot earn overtime, even if they were to do a spread such as 45/25 hours. Those 5 extra hours on week one do not count as overtime, because they're on a bi-weekly pay plan.

"According to the FLSA, non-exempt employees must receive overtime pay for any hours worked over 40 in a single workweek, regardless of whether employees are paid weekly, biweekly, or on another schedule. The overtime rate is typically 1.5 times the employee's regular hourly rate"

Quote:How does biweekly overtime work?
If you're paid biweekly, your overtime is still based on the 7-day week. This means you can isolate each consecutive 7-day period in a 40-hour workweek to calculate your overtime pay. While your pay is biweekly, your hours per week are what count when determining overtime pay.
Related: What Is Biweekly Pay and How Does It Work? (With Benefits)
What's the process for calculating biweekly overtime?
If you're paid biweekly and work 45 hours one week and 35 hours the next, even though you only worked a total of 80 hours over a span of two weeks, you're eligible for five hours of overtime for the first week in the pay period. For example, you earn $20 per hour and get time and a half for overtime pay, which brings your rate up to $30.
If you worked 45 hours the first week of the pay period, you'd get overtime wages of $150 ($30 x 5) in addition to your usual $800 ($20 x 40) in regular wages. This means you earned a total of $950 during the first week. During the second week, you only worked 35 hours ($20 x 35), earning $700 in regular wages. For the full two-week pay period ($950 + $700), you earned $1,650. This is $150 higher than your usual pay for a standard 40-hour workweek.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2024 12:02 PM by WKUYG.)
09-13-2024 12:00 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 08:14 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Well, looks like Kamala will be updating "her" policy soon.

Kamala is a real life Penelope (Kristen Wiig’s SNL character), the serial one upper.

Trump - Build a border wall
Kamala- “I’m for a border wall too”

Trump - no taxes on tips
Kamala- “ I’m for no taxes on tips too”

She is such a useless empty suit.
09-13-2024 12:04 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I will like to see, "no taxes on active military members". They have it bad enough trying to maintain a home with the pay they get and the way they are deployed numerous times. If the GI works a second job then that pay will be taxed but not the one given by Uncle Sam. If they separate from the service then that benefit goes away.

I'm a veteran and I think ONLY the active GI should be able to benefit. Maybe, just maybe it will also get more recruits.

How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2024 12:19 PM by WKUYG.)
09-13-2024 12:13 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I will like to see, "no taxes on active military members". They have it bad enough trying to maintain a home with the pay they get and the way they are deployed numerous times. If the GI works a second job then that pay will be taxed but not the one given by Uncle Sam. If they separate from the service then that benefit goes away.

I'm a veteran and I think ONLY the active GI should be able to benefit. Maybe, just maybe it will also get more recruits.

How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do

Have you read The Fair Tax Book by John Linder and Neal Boortz? What's outlined in that is how I would do it. They answer every single question you've put forth. First, the rate would be around twenty-two percent on every single non-essential item (essentials being food and clothing) on the market today, which would basically be similar to how prices are today. (I forget how they did the math in the book, but they insist that prices would largely be the same.) Also, any and all goods resold would not have a sales tax on it. It would only apply to brand new items. I should furthermore emphasize that the point of this is to have EVERYBODY in the country pay to fund the government since around half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes due to tax minimum thresholds, tax exemptions, and tax loopholes.

Another option would be a flat income tax of ten percent. Now this would only work without having any tax exemptions or loopholes. I admit this part wouldn't be very popular. But considering that the vast majority of taxes are paid by the richest twenty-five percent of the population, I think this would be fair, too. Again, the point is to have everybody pay so they'd have some "skin in the game."

Well, those are two ways I'd do it, anyway.
09-13-2024 12:39 PM
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Redbanksdog Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 11:53 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 06:05 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 05:44 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I keep trying to think what's the downside to this... I mean if you keep the standard labor laws in effect...

I thought the same as you did at first Stink, but I'm not seeing it off the top of my head unless I"m just blindspotted at the moment.

I'm not seeing the downside to this ever. 01-wingedeagle

Okay,. someone just relayed to me a downside to this in part.

Trucker's cannot do over 70 hours per two weeks, so officially they cannot earn overtime, even if they were to do a spread such as 45/25 hours. Those 5 extra hours on week one do not count as overtime, because they're on a bi-weekly pay plan.

Is that for over the road truckers or the in town truckers? I believe most of the long haul trucker get paid by the mile. For the drivers that drive for Fed X for in town delivery, I wonder how that works? Me, I don't know, I'm just wondering. 04-cheers
09-13-2024 12:59 PM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 12:00 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 11:53 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 06:05 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  [quote='DaSaintFan' pid='19741808' dateline='1726181085']
I keep trying to think what's the downside to this... I mean if you keep the standard labor laws in effect...

I thought the same as you did at first Stink, but I'm not seeing it off the top of my head unless I"m just blindspotted at the moment.

I'm not seeing the downside to this ever. 01-wingedeagle

Okay,. someone just relayed to me a downside to this in part.

Trucker's cannot do over 70 hours per two weeks, so officially they cannot earn overtime, even if they were to do a spread such as 45/25 hours. Those 5 extra hours on week one do not count as overtime, because they're on a bi-weekly pay plan.

"According to the FLSA, non-exempt employees must receive overtime pay for any hours worked over 40 in a single workweek, regardless of whether employees are paid weekly, biweekly, or on another schedule. The overtime rate is typically 1.5 times the employee's regular hourly rate"

If that's the case then i'm back to trying to see if there's a downside for this.. I'm guessing not (at the moment)
09-13-2024 01:02 PM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?

It's been a long while, and my economics studies are so much longer ago, i just remember someone had a VAT tax layout planned (as an alternate to Forbes flat tax) - but that was so many years ago, and many things had changed that it may or may not be doable.

I want to say the recommendation was (Despite most countries double taxing,.. the plan i recall didn't)

1) No income tax
2) VAT tax was higher than his flat tax proposal (28%? maybe?)
3) Only applied to new items, would not apply to food or gasoline, specifically, and I think anything else was included. I cannot remember if it applied to services or not. (i want to say it did, but do not recall anymore)

It's been decades since it was discussed, and I'm not 100% sure it would work in todays society, but it something that could be considered
09-13-2024 01:11 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #56
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I will like to see, "no taxes on active military members". They have it bad enough trying to maintain a home with the pay they get and the way they are deployed numerous times. If the GI works a second job then that pay will be taxed but not the one given by Uncle Sam. If they separate from the service then that benefit goes away.

I'm a veteran and I think ONLY the active GI should be able to benefit. Maybe, just maybe it will also get more recruits.

How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do

Have you read The Fair Tax Book by John Linder and Neal Boortz? What's outlined in that is how I would do it. They answer every single question you've put forth. First, the rate would be around twenty-two percent on every single non-essential item (essentials being food and clothing) on the market today, which would basically be similar to how prices are today. (I forget how they did the math in the book, but they insist that prices would largely be the same.) Also, any and all goods resold would not have a sales tax on it. It would only apply to brand new items. I should furthermore emphasize that the point of this is to have EVERYBODY in the country pay to fund the government since around half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes due to tax minimum thresholds, tax exemptions, and tax loopholes.

Another option would be a flat income tax of ten percent. Now this would only work without having any tax exemptions or loopholes. I admit this part wouldn't be very popular. But considering that the vast majority of taxes are paid by the richest twenty-five percent of the population, I think this would be fair, too. Again, the point is to have everybody pay so they'd have some "skin in the game."

Well, those are two ways I'd do it, anyway.

Can you give me an example of those theories in a working practice? Where VATs are in place in all 23 European countries and the average is 21.6 percent and each one of those countries also have a INCOME TAX rate that is higher than what the average American family making $100,000 pays.


Below is a example of UK MAKING $100,000 a year and keep in mind this does not include the VAT of 20%. I know the UK is no longer in the EU but it still applies for this in the same way.

Yearly
Gross salary £100,000
Income Tax £27,432
Insurance £4,764.60
Take home pay £67,803.40

What is exempt
Quote: What is exempt from VAT in the EU?
Supplies that must be exempt include activities in the public interest such as medical care and social services, as well as most financial and insurance services and certain supplies of land and buildings.

As I pointed to above and I didn't just take the numbers out of thin air. I used a tax calculator and only used the very basics for a family making $100,000 in America. I'm not going to scroll up to get the numbers so these might be off by 1% or so

with 2 children a tax rate of 4%
without any children a tax rate of 11%

66% of American families make under 100k

So in a real world not a theory in countries that are not spend over 50% of their budget on defense. Not only do they need to charge a VAT of at the very least 20% but also a income tax rate that is higher than at least 66% of American families pay.

80% of American household make under $150,000 and their effective tax rate (150k) is only 13% without any children and under 10% with 2.


Need to be very careful what we wish for or think we really want because with the American defense a VAT would need to be 30 to 35% if no income tax

a new $65,000 truck with a 30% VAT then cost you $84,500 before you add in state taxes and dont think state taxes are going anywhere.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2024 01:14 PM by WKUYG.)
09-13-2024 01:12 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 01:11 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?

It's been a long while, and my economics studies are so much longer ago, i just remember someone had a VAT tax layout planned (as an alternate to Forbes flat tax) - but that was so many years ago, and many things had changed that it may or may not be doable.

I want to say the recommendation was (Despite most countries double taxing,.. the plan i recall didn't)

1) No income tax
2) VAT tax was higher than his flat tax proposal (28%? maybe?)
3) Only applied to new items, would not apply to food or gasoline, specifically, and I think anything else was included. I cannot remember if it applied to services or not. (i want to say it did, but do not recall anymore)

It's been decades since it was discussed, and I'm not 100% sure it would work in todays society, but it something that could be considered

Yeah, I think the Democrats tried to pass a bill that would institute a VAT during either the Obama Administration or the Biden Administration. (I don't remember which.) It would've been done like, say, how they have it in Germany, for example. That's not what I'm advocating. I'm talking about repealing the Income Tax Amendment, which includes eliminating the IRS, and replacing it with the Fair Tax. (I know you get that, but I just wanted to include that in my response.) And in Linder and Boortz's book, it was either twenty-two or twenty-three percent. (I usually go with twenty-two percent.)
09-13-2024 01:21 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 01:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do

Have you read The Fair Tax Book by John Linder and Neal Boortz? What's outlined in that is how I would do it. They answer every single question you've put forth. First, the rate would be around twenty-two percent on every single non-essential item (essentials being food and clothing) on the market today, which would basically be similar to how prices are today. (I forget how they did the math in the book, but they insist that prices would largely be the same.) Also, any and all goods resold would not have a sales tax on it. It would only apply to brand new items. I should furthermore emphasize that the point of this is to have EVERYBODY in the country pay to fund the government since around half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes due to tax minimum thresholds, tax exemptions, and tax loopholes.

Another option would be a flat income tax of ten percent. Now this would only work without having any tax exemptions or loopholes. I admit this part wouldn't be very popular. But considering that the vast majority of taxes are paid by the richest twenty-five percent of the population, I think this would be fair, too. Again, the point is to have everybody pay so they'd have some "skin in the game."

Well, those are two ways I'd do it, anyway.

Can you give me an example of those theories in a working practice? Where VATs are in place in all 23 European countries and the average is 21.6 percent and each one of those countries also have a INCOME TAX rate that is higher than what the average American family making $100,000 pays.


Below is a example of UK MAKING $100,000 a year and keep in mind this does not include the VAT of 20%. I know the UK is no longer in the EU but it still applies for this in the same way.

Yearly
Gross salary £100,000
Income Tax £27,432
Insurance £4,764.60
Take home pay £67,803.40

What is exempt
Quote: What is exempt from VAT in the EU?
Supplies that must be exempt include activities in the public interest such as medical care and social services, as well as most financial and insurance services and certain supplies of land and buildings.

As I pointed to above and I didn't just take the numbers out of thin air. I used a tax calculator and only used the very basics for a family making $100,000 in America. I'm not going to scroll up to get the numbers so these might be off by 1% or so

with 2 children a tax rate of 4%
without any children a tax rate of 11%

66% of American families make under 100k

So in a real world not a theory in countries that are not spend over 50% of their budget on defense. Not only do they need to charge a VAT of at the very least 20% but also a income tax rate that is higher than at least 66% of American families pay.

80% of American household make under $150,000 and their effective tax rate (150k) is only 13% without any children and under 10% with 2.


Need to be very careful what we wish for or think we really want because with the American defense a VAT would need to be 30 to 35% if no income tax

a new $65,000 truck with a 30% VAT then cost you $84,500 before you add in state taxes and dont think state taxes are going anywhere.

No, but not because I don't want to. Believe me, I do. I just haven't found one yet, unfortunately. It doesn't seem like any government entity wants to be an experiment, which is a real shame, too, because I honestly believe it would be worthwhile to see what would happen. I personally think that state or country's economy would skyrocket in a year's time, but I'm sure others would disagree. (I can't say for certain because I'm not an economist.) I also have to reiterate that the Fair Tax would include getting rid of the national income tax and therefore the IRS and would not be a VAT because, at least the way I understand it, a VAT is a tax that's added at each stage of production. I could be wrong on that though, and if that's the case, please feel free to correct me on it. I mean that. A true exchange of ideas includes each one of us educating each other so we can all come away from civil discourse being better informed.

Anyway, as soon as I find one, though, I'll cite it. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2024 01:38 PM by GeminiCoog.)
09-13-2024 01:35 PM
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fsquid Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
nah, if I have to pay taxes on income, those people have to pay too. Same with you tip people.
09-14-2024 09:17 AM
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U_of_Elvis Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Trump announces at Arizona rally, "No taxes on overtime"
(09-13-2024 12:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 12:13 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2024 11:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:45 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(09-12-2024 10:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I will like to see, "no taxes on active military members". They have it bad enough trying to maintain a home with the pay they get and the way they are deployed numerous times. If the GI works a second job then that pay will be taxed but not the one given by Uncle Sam. If they separate from the service then that benefit goes away.

I'm a veteran and I think ONLY the active GI should be able to benefit. Maybe, just maybe it will also get more recruits.

How about no federal income tax, period? We can fund the government with either a fair tax (aka a national sales tax) or tariffs.

i'd take this in a heartbeat (fair tax or a VAT) (and i do agree active military should NEVER be taxed, while in service)

What would you say was a "fair tax rate"? Also what you think a VAT should be?

Can you name me a first world country that has a VAT that doesn't also have a income tax? There's a few but MOST is in over 90% have both. The above question where I asked you what a fair VAT for American should be you need to take what I wrote about over 90% of the first world countries needing both into what just a VAT should be

How about Sr's that are no longer worker but paid into the system with income tax. Should they now pay a VAT?

What should be exempted for all in a VAT?
How about resell....you selling me something should a VAT be put on that?


While its a guess I believe for a VAT to work alone in America it will need to be in the 30 to 35% range. With very few exemptions and that includes resell.

I would bet anyone whatever they wanted to that is making under 100k....

they would be paying more in this tax than income tax which is a tax rate of10/11% if you have no children. And 3 to 5% if you do

Have you read The Fair Tax Book by John Linder and Neal Boortz? What's outlined in that is how I would do it. They answer every single question you've put forth. First, the rate would be around twenty-two percent on every single non-essential item (essentials being food and clothing) on the market today, which would basically be similar to how prices are today. (I forget how they did the math in the book, but they insist that prices would largely be the same.) Also, any and all goods resold would not have a sales tax on it. It would only apply to brand new items. I should furthermore emphasize that the point of this is to have EVERYBODY in the country pay to fund the government since around half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes due to tax minimum thresholds, tax exemptions, and tax loopholes.

Another option would be a flat income tax of ten percent. Now this would only work without having any tax exemptions or loopholes. I admit this part wouldn't be very popular. But considering that the vast majority of taxes are paid by the richest twenty-five percent of the population, I think this would be fair, too. Again, the point is to have everybody pay so they'd have some "skin in the game."

Well, those are two ways I'd do it, anyway.

I’d pay a flat 10% in a heartbeat.

22% consumption tax would also lower my taxes.

Both of these tax plans are fairly regressive, shifting tax burden from the upper middle class down. The flat tax would potentially increase the taxes on the ultra wealth.

Honestly the best way to actually get the ultra wealthy to pay taxes is to kill off the step up basis on over about $50M or tax withdrawals from asset secured lines of credit as income to kill off “buy, borrow, die” and let your kids take the assets with step up basis never paying taxes.
09-14-2024 09:33 AM
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