(10-30-2023 01:24 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote: (10-29-2023 11:12 PM)JRsec Wrote: (10-29-2023 10:20 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote: The executive actions taken by Lincoln in violation of the Constitution, particularly revoking habeus corpus (arresting and detaining opponents of the War), was clearly dictatorial and wrong. It is really surprising that some of the normally well-enlightened folks on this forum are ignorant of these facts.
If I were to rank Lincoln and Lee and Sherman (and I know direct decendents of both Generals), Lee would be ranked as the most moral and logical, with Lincoln and Sherman distant #2 and #3. Lincoln was no Saint and Sherman even worse.
Well, Smitty that depends upon who you call "normally well-enlightened." The removal of our history whether Lincoln, Sherman or Lee was a violent act against TRUTH in this country by a commune of lying imbeciles. Erase the past no matter how noble or foul is how the Marxist/Maoists work. There can only be one history, the one they invent (a lie). That the University of Virginia caved on the monument was a testimony as to where the administration at UVa stands and that alone should be an alarm to all Virginians and the parents of all students who attend it.
To acknowledge the importance of Lee to the University, it has his service following the war as an example and it would have been reason to keep it. If the Confederate Nature of it was considered an offense at the very minimum, they should have replaced that statue with one of Lee in civilian clothes.
But it is senseless arguing about who was the greater in morality when the immorality that took all of them down, including those of some of the founding fathers, is what needs to be front and center. My reason? Where they seek to destroy history, they seek to destroy truth, and where truth dies, tyranny takes up residence. The removal of historic icons is an attack upon the founding of the government and the government itself. The fact that government condones such destruction means that we have moles ass deep in places where they need to be removed and that we have chickenshites in the DOJ, FBI, SCOTUS, Congress, and the White House. They are also stupid and don't know history if they think this stops with appeasement. It ends only in utter destruction. Maoists & Marxists have only ever understood force.
The point is we either preserve who we are, or everything which protects us vanishes and we are left only with the illusion of rights. It's life or death and our leaders are betraying the nation, its founders, and every life which has died to defend it.
JRS, I understand and do not disagree with your comments. I personally see Lee as a very learned and very admirable figure in our history, and the erasing of his legacy (pre-War, War, and post-war) dishonors the man for whom I hold such esteem. My argument and point trying to be made is that Lee (and Lincoln) neither held emancipation as the primary topic of conflict. While the freeing of slaves was ultimately correct and just, the South's complaints about Federal government overreach were certainly not without merit.
Such historical references are becoming increasingly important as we continue to be wildly divided and in need of a national divorce. The real question is how such a divorce is achieved. 13 -year Naval officer, but if a draft for yet another Middle Eastern war is coming, I will put my boys on the sidelines in a foreign land (they will not fight and die for political and economic gain of our elite class). However, if the conflict is about splitting up the US into viable economic and ideological tribes, that is something worth fighting for with every means at hand, it is long past time for a National Divorce.
And I absolutely agree about the Federalism vs States Rights, but it takes a serious student of history to find that in the microfiche of the University Library now, because all the real issues in history have been buried by the cult of victimization the Reds are pushing. At Emory if you wanted the meat and potatoes research you had to go to the archives or microfiche or otherwise all you would find was crap published after the 60's. That was true on word studies in other languages too as many used more obsolete than common usages to alter interpretations. Anytime somebody plays games with language there is a nefarious reason for it. The more precise a language the more functional a society.
In the Hebrew there are three words used for the taking of life. One is murder/manslaughter and carries a punishment. One is used solely for executions and the other is for defense, both of family and in combat for your country. Only the first carries the pejorative of the 10 commandments. You would think more people would use this to help alleviate combat guilt and stress, but then it wouldn't serve the purpose of making us all good little pacifists. With turn the other cheek, it was an ancient Israelite law practice where one declared their absolute innocence before God by turning the cheek after the accuser struck with the open palm of their right hand to accuse you before the elders at the gate of the city or settlement who decided the cases. Turning the other cheek left the accuser only the back of the right hand with which to strike you again, and striking with the back of the hand or striking with the left was forbidden. To strike again using the back of the right hand placed the judgement of God against the accuser. But the turned cheek was the surrender of your relationship with the deity if you lied. Which was why it was seen as an extremely serious move. Christ was merely telling his disciples to remain innocent before God and did not intend for them to suffer abuse. That doesn't play well with the leftist clergy who have an agenda in defanging the righteous indignation of those who adhere to the word. In today's world you may have faith, if it is so tepid it doesn't demand you address the wrongs and immorality society pushes. Yet Christ said take up your cross and follow me. Standing up has a price and a reward.
You are correct about the points you make, but the battlefront in this fight is always changing and the citizens long ago quit expressing outrage at what is wrong. The television robbed citizens of organizing to make a stand when corruption allowed the wicked to flourish. TV told them they were in the minority and most people have quit talking to neighbors about what is wrong. Now those who profit by the wickedness call any attempt by the public to demand justice a hostile act even though the demonstrations are peaceful. They equate outrage with anger, and the two while similar are quite different. One demands action, the other takes it. We are to give our systems a chance to work but when they don't, we are to replace those in those systems until justice is the sole goal of it. And I am talking the blind justice who sees no color of skin and only adjudicates according to whether the accused did the crime, or not.
When those who demand justice are called criminals while criminals are permitted to burn and loot and destroy the businesses of citizens who are lawful and do the same to personal property of innocent citizens, then the criminals aren't just the thugs, but are the ones entrusted with the public's safety and rights, and that was once dealt with by the National Guard, or a Federal Agency. But when those fail to uphold their oath of office the corruption is far, far deeper and all citizens need to learn to discern that and quit believing the paid excuse makers on the tube.
Decent people know what is wrong. It comes with the conscience. The issue of our time is that those who should be recalled are protected by those higher up, and those higher up appoint the heads of the Federal Agencies, where good men and women working for them are called insubordinate and dealt with if they won't comply with the orders and directives issued by those who head their agencies. If not them, who handles justice for the people? And therein resides the dilemma. Go along and it gets worse. Take it on even peacefully and they will rub futility into your nose.
God is going to take a hand. People don't believe it, but today's times are merely proving what so many reject. The conditions actually strengthen my faith, instead of test it.
All I can tell you, is thanks for your service, I have a grandson serving now. I completely understand your position, but left unchecked and while it impacts everyone, evil always burns itself out. None of those involved in it trust each other, and their paranoia runs deep and though they have much they live in fear. The decent people just have to outlast them.
We are in a Pogo moment, only slightly altered. We have enemies which are not us, and we have met another enemy, and he is some of us. Pogo always said I have met the enemy, and he is us. I don't see a path to secession. I do see a path to reclamation, but it will be long and tough. My faith though is that God wins out, even against all of this and in spite of a heretical church.
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Robert E. Lee statue melted in secret, 'symbolic' ceremony, to be remade into 'inclus
