(11-14-2022 01:27 PM)miko33 Wrote: There are all sorts of politicians that are unpopular. I think Pelosi, Schumer and Biden are cancers to this country yet they are still in their elected positions. So how is that making the future brighter?
1. Bit disingenuous to call Trump simply "unpopular"
2. Democrats elected to pass democratic legislation is popular among the left. Why should I play your both sides game when we have a very different view of current events? Half this board doesn't even believe in climate change.
Explain point 1 to me.
I can't, because you believe everything right wing media tells you. You somehow believe that these milquetoast toothless Democrats are the evil Boogeymen of the left so therefore that makes them the same as Trump, and therefore just "unpopular" as you mildly put it. Trump is under investigation for crimes never before committed by a former president. If the accusations are true, he will be thrown in prison as a traitor. Fling all the conspiraciea and what ifs you want against the three you mentioned, but none of them come close to Trump. You are being disingenuous.
Regarding climate change, you ignore the huge elephants in the room (China and India) who are NOT curbing their emmissions like us and western Europe. I thought you were a STEM major so I'm sure you understand that you have to change the variables that make the biggest impact if you want to see significant changes over time.
What difference does it make what China and India do with regards to climate change? What, we should just ignore the catastrophic warming of our planet because it's not entirely our fault? Or are you saying Americans are incapable of handling both tasks? And yet, somehow all your words still don't justify why, in the year 2022, half of y'all don't believe in anthropogenic climate change, despite overwhelming evidence. How is anyone expected to deal with such irrationality seriously? Why should I care what you guys want for this country if you can't even agree on climate change?
Climate change? Sure. Human created?..to some extent. Normal cyclical event? Most likely... all combined. What bothers a lot of us is the bogus claims of imminent catastrophe that leftists have been touting for decades....One of which was a VP of the US. Just stop with the histrionics and put forth some reasonable positions that don't destroy the economy in the process. How about using some common sense and push more for Clean Air? It would accomplish the same goals. Everyone likes clean air.
I'd argue that clean air would allow a stronger greenhouse effect. At least with a lot of particulates in the air you can reflect some of that UV radiation back into space.
First, the planet is LOW on CO2 as compared to the last couple of centuries due to society expansion and the decrease of forests. That's a fact.
Second, without reading all of the garbage above, are the Leftists saying they want our country to mimic the ALL WHITE "Nordic Countries"? How funny. Good luck with that. Maybe there is an underlying reason those countries can prosper with their current government model? I don't know, gotta be something there.
(11-14-2022 11:31 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Trump appears to be fading into the rear view mirror, for starters.
There are all sorts of politicians that are unpopular. I think Pelosi, Schumer and Biden are cancers to this country yet they are still in their elected positions. So how is that making the future brighter?
1. Bit disingenuous to call Trump simply "unpopular"
2. Democrats elected to pass democratic legislation is popular among the left. Why should I play your both sides game when we have a very different view of current events? Half this board doesn't even believe in climate change.
Explain point 1 to me.
I can't, because you believe everything right wing media tells you. You somehow believe that these milquetoast toothless Democrats are the evil Boogeymen of the left so therefore that makes them the same as Trump, and therefore just "unpopular" as you mildly put it. Trump is under investigation for crimes never before committed by a former president. If the accusations are true, he will be thrown in prison as a traitor. Fling all the conspiraciea and what ifs you want against the three you mentioned, but none of them come close to Trump. You are being disingenuous.
Regarding climate change, you ignore the huge elephants in the room (China and India) who are NOT curbing their emmissions like us and western Europe. I thought you were a STEM major so I'm sure you understand that you have to change the variables that make the biggest impact if you want to see significant changes over time.
What difference does it make what China and India do with regards to climate change? What, we should just ignore the catastrophic warming of our planet because it's not entirely our fault? Or are you saying Americans are incapable of handling both tasks? And yet, somehow all your words still don't justify why, in the year 2022, half of y'all don't believe in anthropogenic climate change, despite overwhelming evidence. How is anyone expected to deal with such irrationality seriously? Why should I care what you guys want for this country if you can't even agree on climate change?
You can't explain it because there isn't anything concrete that made Trump a traitor to the country. We do know certain facts where Trump was falsely charged (Russian collusion) and exonerated in the process. This you cannot deny - that the FBI in 2016/2017 colluded with the Democrat Party (HRC in particular) to begin an investigation that was founded on a campaign hit piece that was inaccurate on numerous details.
Regarding climate change. Are you seriously going to respond with that? Are you really going to tell me that we should accept that the 2 biggest "polluters" with CO2 are nonissues and that the U.S. needs to go full speed ahead? Do you truly realize the impact that oil and gas has on the economy above and beyond just burning it?
(11-14-2022 01:27 PM)miko33 Wrote: There are all sorts of politicians that are unpopular. I think Pelosi, Schumer and Biden are cancers to this country yet they are still in their elected positions. So how is that making the future brighter?
1. Bit disingenuous to call Trump simply "unpopular"
2. Democrats elected to pass democratic legislation is popular among the left. Why should I play your both sides game when we have a very different view of current events? Half this board doesn't even believe in climate change.
Explain point 1 to me.
I can't, because you believe everything right wing media tells you. You somehow believe that these milquetoast toothless Democrats are the evil Boogeymen of the left so therefore that makes them the same as Trump, and therefore just "unpopular" as you mildly put it. Trump is under investigation for crimes never before committed by a former president. If the accusations are true, he will be thrown in prison as a traitor. Fling all the conspiraciea and what ifs you want against the three you mentioned, but none of them come close to Trump. You are being disingenuous.
Regarding climate change, you ignore the huge elephants in the room (China and India) who are NOT curbing their emmissions like us and western Europe. I thought you were a STEM major so I'm sure you understand that you have to change the variables that make the biggest impact if you want to see significant changes over time.
What difference does it make what China and India do with regards to climate change? What, we should just ignore the catastrophic warming of our planet because it's not entirely our fault? Or are you saying Americans are incapable of handling both tasks? And yet, somehow all your words still don't justify why, in the year 2022, half of y'all don't believe in anthropogenic climate change, despite overwhelming evidence. How is anyone expected to deal with such irrationality seriously? Why should I care what you guys want for this country if you can't even agree on climate change?
You can't explain it because there isn't anything concrete that made Trump a traitor to the country. We do know certain facts where Trump was falsely charged (Russian collusion) and exonerated in the process. This you cannot deny - that the FBI in 2016/2017 colluded with the Democrat Party (HRC in particular) to begin an investigation that was founded on a campaign hit piece that was inaccurate on numerous details.
Regarding climate change. Are you seriously going to respond with that? Are you really going to tell me that we should accept that the 2 biggest "polluters" with CO2 are nonissues and that the U.S. needs to go full speed ahead? Do you truly realize the impact that oil and gas has on the economy above and beyond just burning it?
I'm disappointed in you Miko. I thought you hadn't swallowed the right wing propaganda, but I guess I was wrong. It's clear we're not operating in the same paradigm if the message you took from the Mueller proceedings was "exoneration". Those are Trumps words, not Mueller's. You've played your hand.
(11-14-2022 02:22 PM)Kruciff Wrote: 1. Bit disingenuous to call Trump simply "unpopular"
2. Democrats elected to pass democratic legislation is popular among the left. Why should I play your both sides game when we have a very different view of current events? Half this board doesn't even believe in climate change.
Explain point 1 to me.
I can't, because you believe everything right wing media tells you. You somehow believe that these milquetoast toothless Democrats are the evil Boogeymen of the left so therefore that makes them the same as Trump, and therefore just "unpopular" as you mildly put it. Trump is under investigation for crimes never before committed by a former president. If the accusations are true, he will be thrown in prison as a traitor. Fling all the conspiraciea and what ifs you want against the three you mentioned, but none of them come close to Trump. You are being disingenuous.
Regarding climate change, you ignore the huge elephants in the room (China and India) who are NOT curbing their emmissions like us and western Europe. I thought you were a STEM major so I'm sure you understand that you have to change the variables that make the biggest impact if you want to see significant changes over time.
What difference does it make what China and India do with regards to climate change? What, we should just ignore the catastrophic warming of our planet because it's not entirely our fault? Or are you saying Americans are incapable of handling both tasks? And yet, somehow all your words still don't justify why, in the year 2022, half of y'all don't believe in anthropogenic climate change, despite overwhelming evidence. How is anyone expected to deal with such irrationality seriously? Why should I care what you guys want for this country if you can't even agree on climate change?
You can't explain it because there isn't anything concrete that made Trump a traitor to the country. We do know certain facts where Trump was falsely charged (Russian collusion) and exonerated in the process. This you cannot deny - that the FBI in 2016/2017 colluded with the Democrat Party (HRC in particular) to begin an investigation that was founded on a campaign hit piece that was inaccurate on numerous details.
Regarding climate change. Are you seriously going to respond with that? Are you really going to tell me that we should accept that the 2 biggest "polluters" with CO2 are nonissues and that the U.S. needs to go full speed ahead? Do you truly realize the impact that oil and gas has on the economy above and beyond just burning it?
I'm disappointed in you Miko. I thought you hadn't swallowed the right wing propaganda, but I guess I was wrong. It's clear we're not operating in the same paradigm if the message you took from the Mueller proceedings was "exoneration". Those are Trumps words, not Mueller's. You've played your hand.
Oh? Mueller couldn't prove Trump colluded with Russia. We're a nation of laws so if he's not proven to be guilty, then he's innocent. Right?
I'm bitterly disappointed that you ignore the 2 biggest levers that need to be pulled if you want to address man's impact on the climate.
"What difference does it make what China and India do"?....
For decades now we have heard the climate scientists talk about the point of no return... "if we don't get emissions down below this level within 10 years we will hit the point of no return" type of crap...
According to their numbers (even though they have proven false by not hitting the point of no return) if every country in the world gets their emissions down to 0, China and India alone will push us past the "point of no return"...
it is all or nothing, right? If we are going to have a climate disaster anyway, I might as well be warm in the winter, cool in the summer, and drive whenever I feel the urge.
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
Correct, we do not have unfettered capitalism in the US. I don't think any country on the planet does, aside from pockets of ungoverned anarchy. Which is exactly why I said "more unfettered capitalism", which we absolutely do have vis a vis the Nordic countries.
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
Correct, we do not have unfettered capitalism in the US. I don't think any country on the planet does, aside from pockets of ungoverned anarchy. Which is exactly why I said "more unfettered capitalism", which we absolutely do have vis a vis the Nordic countries.
Unfettered capitalism is an absolute though. You can't have more unfettered capitalism - either you do or you don't. It's word semantics yes, but that's why I responded the way I did.
For instance, I agree that we have more capitalism than most Nordic countries, but they have increasingly become more capitalistic in nature with less regulation and taxes. Their social safety net is "strong" but they also have one homogenous culture and we take care of their defense funding.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2022 12:41 PM by WalkThePlank.)
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
And therein lies the problem. Its getting worse by the day and NO POLITICIAN or Political Party is ever going to fix it. Its the elephant in the room no one will address. The Democrats will lie even more and promise more that they know is not tangible but who cares. Kick that can down the road. Allow even more immigrants to freely pour into a country with 31 Trillion in debt and further drain from the economy because they will dependent as most have no skills and can't speak the language. Heaven forbid that an actual process be implemented where the flow could be controlled and managed. Illegal Immigration unabated is a recipe for disaster and the fools in the Administration are oblivious. I truly hope those buses from Texas continue 24/7/365 to blue cities across America. We might as well as socialist want all share in the same misery.
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
Correct, we do not have unfettered capitalism in the US. I don't think any country on the planet does, aside from pockets of ungoverned anarchy. Which is exactly why I said "more unfettered capitalism", which we absolutely do have vis a vis the Nordic countries.
Unfettered capitalism is an absolute though. You can't have more unfettered capitalism - either you do or you don't. It's word semantics yes, but that's why I responded the way I did.
For instance, I agree that we have more capitalism than most Nordic countries, but they have increasingly become more capitalistic in nature with less regulation and taxes. Their social safety net is "strong" but they also have one homogenous culture and we take care of their defense funding.
You're right, I see what you're saying now. It doesn't make sense to add a modifier to an absolute. I should have said "less fettered capitalism". I'm quick to quibble over semantics when others stumble, so turnabout is fair play and today you win!
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
Correct, we do not have unfettered capitalism in the US. I don't think any country on the planet does, aside from pockets of ungoverned anarchy. Which is exactly why I said "more unfettered capitalism", which we absolutely do have vis a vis the Nordic countries.
Unfettered capitalism is an absolute though. You can't have more unfettered capitalism - either you do or you don't. It's word semantics yes, but that's why I responded the way I did.
For instance, I agree that we have more capitalism than most Nordic countries, but they have increasingly become more capitalistic in nature with less regulation and taxes. Their social safety net is "strong" but they also have one homogenous culture and we take care of their defense funding.
You're right, I see what you're saying now. It doesn't make sense to add a modifier to an absolute. I should have said "less fettered capitalism". I'm quick to quibble over semantics when others stumble, so turnabout is fair play and today you win!
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
And therein lies the problem. Its getting worse by the day and NO POLITICIAN or Political Party is ever going to fix it. Its the elephant in the room no one will address. The Democrats will lie even more and promise more that they know is not tangible but who cares. Kick that can down the road. Allow even more immigrants to freely pour into a country with 31 Trillion in debt and further drain from the economy because they will dependent as most have no skills and can't speak the language. Heaven forbid that an actual process be implemented where the flow could be controlled and managed. Illegal Immigration unabated is a recipe for disaster and the fools in the Administration are oblivious. I truly hope those buses from Texas continue 24/7/365 to blue cities across America. We might as well as socialist want all share in the same misery.
It's a massive failure by the GOP that surrendered the power of the purse years ago. The Dems run on free stuff, the R's are supposed to be the adult in the room, but they're just like the kids now.
(11-15-2022 12:57 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote: It's a massive failure by the GOP that surrendered the power of the purse years ago. The Dems run on free stuff, the R's are supposed to be the adult in the room, but they're just like the kids now.
When you're a kid who is your favorite parent going to be? The one who tells you to clean your room and brush your teeth, or the one that slips you candy even if you didn't finish your dinner?
A large enough portion of our electorate now wants free stuff over asking "what they can do for their country".
(11-15-2022 10:35 AM)Gamenole Wrote: Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
We don't have "unfettered capitalism" here in the United States. We have a mixed economy with the highest government spending as a % of GDP in the first world.
The Fed controls the money supply, government entitlements drive most spending (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) yet more people take out of the system than add to it. We are slowly turning into a giant welfare state - Democrats want free healthcare, free college tuition, UBI etc.
Your premise is simply inaccurate.
And therein lies the problem. Its getting worse by the day and NO POLITICIAN or Political Party is ever going to fix it. Its the elephant in the room no one will address. The Democrats will lie even more and promise more that they know is not tangible but who cares. Kick that can down the road. Allow even more immigrants to freely pour into a country with 31 Trillion in debt and further drain from the economy because they will dependent as most have no skills and can't speak the language. Heaven forbid that an actual process be implemented where the flow could be controlled and managed. Illegal Immigration unabated is a recipe for disaster and the fools in the Administration are oblivious. I truly hope those buses from Texas continue 24/7/365 to blue cities across America. We might as well as socialist want all share in the same misery.
It's a massive failure by the GOP that surrendered the power of the purse years ago. The Dems run on free stuff, the R's are supposed to be the adult in the room, but they're just like the kids now.
Wrap your mind around this. In May of 2011 we were $6.7 Trillion in debt. Today a short eleven years later we are $31.2 Trillion in debt and our Politicians still talk about all the freebies you get if you elect the clowns. Simply mind blowing how dumbed down the average voter is. Of course none of this is ever discussed why they spend millions on personal attack ads that are for the most part not true but sensational on both sides.
The OP is spot on. This experiment called the United States of America has become a runaway freight train headed for disaster and you would truly have to be a brain washed propaganda drinking sheople not to see it. Will we hold those Politicians and Elites responsible? Nope, we will continue to play their game of division.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2022 01:10 PM by BlueDragon.)
(11-14-2022 09:32 AM)CLTPirate Wrote: I will never understand why Republicans think some multi-millionaire in power want Marxism, which goes against their own interests.
Rich and powerful people don't want an ideology that strips money and power away from rich and powerful people.
Marxism protects the rich class. That's the thing that most of the left don't understand about marxism. There is always a rich and powerful elite class, but everyone else is poor and powerless.
If you look at history, this is totally untrue. Marxism pits the Bourgeoisie (ruling class) against the proletariat (working class). Saying they are at odds because the bourgeoisie owns what the workers need to produce things and that if they got rid of the bourgeoisie the proletariat would reap the benefits. As they would get to split up the sizable chunk of the pie going to the bourgeoisie
In the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc they went after the landlords, factory owners, the wealthy, and those in power.
Communist leaders by in large didn't come from the powerful, Mao was a farmer, Stalin grew up in poverty, Lenin grew up middle class, etc.
I'm not a Marxist but as someone on the left, I have never understood why so many conservatives think prominent Democrats are closet Marxists. Even the more radical Dems such as Bernie and AOC base their beliefs on Nordic countries not 1960s China.
Pray tell. Since you study history tell me how Lenin, Stalin, Castro and Mao ruled? They lived like commoners? Laughable! If you have an ounce of common sense between your ears you understand it was just an overthrow of one system being replaced by one that was worse than was overthrown. What rights do people have in Communist countries other than the right to be poor and subservient. No hope for a better life just a penance and an existence. I had friends that lived under the old Soviet Union rule and they would definitely enlighten you. To have a Physics degree and work as a Plumber to barely get by. Yep, everyone wants that Comrade.
Read about someone who was all in Communism until he made the mistake of questioning their integrity. Apparently they don’t practice what they preach. Shocking truly shocking. Forced Labor camps will replace our welfare system.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918 – 2008). This guy lived it firsthand and will enlighten anyone on the true real world Communism not what is wrote by a bunch of Lackey College professors with Palmolive dish water hands who have never had to work a day in their lives to make ends meet.
(11-14-2022 09:32 AM)CLTPirate Wrote: I will never understand why Republicans think some multi-millionaire in power want Marxism, which goes against their own interests.
Rich and powerful people don't want an ideology that strips money and power away from rich and powerful people.
Marxism protects the rich class. That's the thing that most of the left don't understand about marxism. There is always a rich and powerful elite class, but everyone else is poor and powerless.
If you look at history, this is totally untrue. Marxism pits the Bourgeoisie (ruling class) against the proletariat (working class). Saying they are at odds because the bourgeoisie owns what the workers need to produce things and that if they got rid of the bourgeoisie the proletariat would reap the benefits. As they would get to split up the sizable chunk of the pie going to the bourgeoisie
In the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc they went after the landlords, factory owners, the wealthy, and those in power.
Communist leaders by in large didn't come from the powerful, Mao was a farmer, Stalin grew up in poverty, Lenin grew up middle class, etc.
I'm not a Marxist but as someone on the left, I have never understood why so many conservatives think prominent Democrats are closet Marxists. Even the more radical Dems such as Bernie and AOC base their beliefs on Nordic countries not 1960s China.
Pray tell. Since you study history tell me how Lenin, Stalin, Castro and Mao ruled? They lived like commoners? Laughable! If you have an ounce of common sense between your ears you understand it was just an overthrow of one system being replaced by one that was worse than was overthrown. What rights do people have in Communist countries other than the right to be poor and subservient. No hope for a better life just a penance and an existence. I had friends that lived under the old Soviet Union rule and they would definitely enlighten you. To have a Physics degree and work as a Plumber to barely get by. Yep, everyone wants that Comrade.
Read about someone who was all in Communism until he made the mistake of questioning their integrity. Apparently they don’t practice what they preach. Shocking truly shocking. Forced Labor camps will replace our welfare system.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918 – 2008). This guy lived it firsthand and will enlighten anyone on the true real world Communism not what is wrote by a bunch of Lackey College professors with Palmolive dish water hands who have never had to work a day in their lives to make ends meet.
Why is is always the authoritarian “socialists” that are used as an example and not the social democracies of Western Europe? Those countries are no less free then we are.
If you don't understand the conflict that's obvious in your statement then there's no need to try explaining it to you.
(11-15-2022 09:19 AM)BlueDragon Wrote: Pray tell. Since you study history tell me how Lenin, Stalin, Castro and Mao ruled? They lived like commoners? Laughable! If you have an ounce of common sense between your ears you understand it was just an overthrow of one system being replaced by one that was worse than was overthrown. What rights do people have in Communist countries other than the right to be poor and subservient. No hope for a better life just a penance and an existence. I had friends that lived under the old Soviet Union rule and they would definitely enlighten you. To have a Physics degree and work as a Plumber to barely get by. Yep, everyone wants that Comrade.
Read about someone who was all in Communism until he made the mistake of questioning their integrity. Apparently they don’t practice what they preach. Shocking truly shocking. Forced Labor camps will replace our welfare system.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918 – 2008). This guy lived it firsthand and will enlighten anyone on the true real world Communism not what is wrote by a bunch of Lackey College professors with Palmolive dish water hands who have never had to work a day in their lives to make ends meet.
Why is is always the authoritarian “socialists” that are used as an example and not the social democracies of Western Europe? Those countries are no less free then we are.
and the answer is C. None of the above.
People left these countries for a better way not a return the old which is where we are headed.
Lol yeah people are fleeing the Nordic countries by the droves to scrape by under our more unfettered capitalism with paltry vacations and a negligible safety net. Oh the crushing burden on our public services all of those Danes & Swedes cause. I take seriously Owl#'s data-based warnings that Democrats are in danger of crossing the line from Scandinavian style social democracy to excessive redistributionism. That isn't where I want to go, and I don't think most Democrats do either.
But I, and the sadly few others who know much at all about the world, do not take at all seriously your fearmongering cries that we are on a path to totalitarian, nominally socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or China. You're just waving the hammer & sickle flag at a largely ignorant electorate who doesn't know better, and yet it still isn't working. Maybe the voters are a little smarter than I give them credit for.
It is always interesting to me that the examples used almost every time is the area of the world with the most dense population of white people. They basically have one culture and one set of traditions. While they were open for immigration, before they were a hot immigration destination, they have done a lot of changes over the recent years to stop the flow.
They are indeed largely homogenous societies with little tolerance for diversity after being burned so badly by it. This simple fact escapes the idealists who see socialism as one big kumbaya campfire.
