(06-23-2022 04:25 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 01:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  What are the positives they have seen dropping to D3?

What are the negatives they have seen dropping to D3?

The positives are they cut the athletic budget by several $million, and now students will be paying tuition to be on teams rather than getting scholarships. They obviously don't think it will impact enrollment at all -- they didn't have a significant fan base among the students. The negative is the press and some donations lost -- but they think that will be limited to the athletic department, and will be considerably smaller than the cost savings.

I suspect they also see D-II as associated with more academically focused schools in New England, so may in fact be a positive in the long run for enrollment.

That's my WAG on the reasoning. But it took guts to follow through because the professional sports lobby (people who make their living off D-I, whether press or athletic department people or invested athletic donors) always brings down hell on school Presidents who try to drop down. For a school President to do that is like a Republican congressional member voting for gun control, as they know they'll get primaried with a ton of NRA money behind it.

Very true. And I would add one other reason it took guts - it also could well hurt his efforts to land another job, as universities generally see themselves as being in "growth" mode, not "retrenchment" mode. Not always, but usually. So if you're a university admin interviewing for other jobs, showing that a program, any program, grew on your watch is a feather in the cap. But if programs were cut or viewed as being "demoted" on your watch, that is an uncomfortable thing that requires explanation and likely will count against you. Not in all situations, but most.

IMO, this is one reason, not the only reason, but one reason why when schools decide to change something about their football, it almost always is something perceived as a 'growth' move, like moving from D2 to FCS or FCS to FBS, not a 'demotion' move. Even if doing so will likely mean much higher athletic expenses, more fees on students, etc. without the guarantee of benefits that outweigh those costs. Growing athletics looks good on the resume, and admins don't have to pay the fees that are then assessed to students, etc.

As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

I don't know that Hartford ever sought to be compared to Amherst or Bowdoin or other liberal arts colleges. It was founded in 1957, and could be seen more as a failure of the state of Connecticut to fund public education ("we have Yale, why do we need another school in Hartford.").

I think it actually fits the profile of many of the other schools in the CCC which appear to be oriented more towards practical educations in the sense that graduates will be able to use their majors in their careers.

Lawsuit stemming from a communication to MBB coach

As the University of Hartford gets set to start another school year, it marks the next step on its transition from Division I to Division III sports.

The administration said the move, announced in May of 2021, better aligns with the school’s mission. But some in athletics say the move has unaligned their career.

University of Hartford Men’s Basketball Head Coach John Gallagher is suing a member of the university’s Board of Regents, alleging that Gallagher declined an offer to join the University of Oklahoma coaching staff because of reassurances that Hartford would not move to Division III. But just a month after that alleged conversation, the university voted to finalize the move.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/spor...r/2852988/

(06-23-2022 07:31 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

I don't know that Hartford ever sought to be compared to Amherst or Bowdoin or other liberal arts colleges. It was founded in 1957, and could be seen more as a failure of the state of Connecticut to fund public education ("we have Yale, why do we need another school in Hartford.").

I think it actually fits the profile of many of the other schools in the CCC which appear to be oriented more towards practical educations in the sense that graduates will be able to use their majors in their careers.

Actually, jimrtex, UHart (as they like to refer to themselves) is a private institution, so anything to do with the state of Connecticut would have no effect on them at all. That would be a good point to bring up if you were talking about UConn or Central Connecticut though.

(08-17-2022 12:21 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 07:31 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

I don't know that Hartford ever sought to be compared to Amherst or Bowdoin or other liberal arts colleges. It was founded in 1957, and could be seen more as a failure of the state of Connecticut to fund public education ("we have Yale, why do we need another school in Hartford.").

I think it actually fits the profile of many of the other schools in the CCC which appear to be oriented more towards practical educations in the sense that graduates will be able to use their majors in their careers.

Actually, jimrtex, UHart (as they like to refer to themselves) is a private institution, so anything to do with the state of Connecticut would have no effect on them at all. That would be a good point to bring up if you were talking about UConn or Central Connecticut though.

You misunderstand. I know that the University of Hartford is a private school. Because northeastern states had long-established private schools with considerable prestige they were late developing their public universities.

Iowa+Iowa State:Drake :: UMass-Amherst+UMass-Lowell:Harvard

is a false analogy.

Because the state of Connecticut had not developed a robust public university system (in part because they had Yale) people in the state capital were forced to start a private university (in 1957). Actually it was a merger of three institutions, the core academic school was Hilyer College which had been founded in 1927 by the WMCA and specialized in automotive studies.

Its mission is more like that of a public university. It is not another private school catering to elite students like Harvard, Yale, Bowdoin (founded 1791), or Amherst (founded 1821).

It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

It will be more of an institutional fit in CCC than it would be in NESCAC.

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

Every single public school in America East is Carnegie R1 or R2.

(08-18-2022 12:36 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

Every single public school in America East is Carnegie R1 or R2.

Are Maryland and UMBC interchangeable?
Rutgers and NJIT?
UMass-Amherst and UMass-Lowell
Stony Brook and Binghamton?

(08-18-2022 12:42 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:36 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

Every single public school in America East is Carnegie R1 or R2.

Are Maryland and UMBC interchangeable?
Rutgers and NJIT?
UMass-Amherst and UMass-Lowell
Stony Brook and Binghamton?

Three things:

1. My point was more that Hartford was not, and was not striving to be, an academic peer to the rest of AE.

2. "Forced" is a strong word there. It's not like Maryland or Rutgers was an available school for America East. America East targets/targeted (availability is now slim) middle sized public institutions. They are all good schools, it's not like AE is saying "Darn, Maryland isn't coming, let's get UMBC." There are five conferences in the country that can pick up the premier public institutions in the country, and they all are FBS access conferences.

3. Despite the New York governor needing to shore up her Long Island base of support by giving Stony Brook the flagship title, whether SBU is actually a better school than Binghamton is absolutely up for debate.

(08-18-2022 01:37 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:42 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:36 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

Every single public school in America East is Carnegie R1 or R2.

Are Maryland and UMBC interchangeable?
Rutgers and NJIT?
UMass-Amherst and UMass-Lowell
Stony Brook and Binghamton?

Three things:

1. My point was more that Hartford was not, and was not striving to be, an academic peer to the rest of AE.

2. "Forced" is a strong word there. It's not like Maryland or Rutgers was an available school for America East. America East targets/targeted (availability is now slim) middle sized public institutions. They are all good schools, it's not like AE is saying "Darn, Maryland isn't coming, let's get UMBC." There are five conferences in the country that can pick up the premier public institutions in the country, and they all are FBS access conferences.

3. Despite the New York governor needing to shore up her Long Island base of support by giving Stony Brook the flagship title, whether SBU is actually a better school than Binghamton is absolutely up for debate.

If Connecticut created Hartford State University after WWII, University of Hartford would never have happened.

Let's look at the ECAC-North, North Atlantic, America East timeline:

1979: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island; Holy Cross, Canisius, Niagara, Colgate, Northeastern, Boston U.

By 1984: Rhode Island and Holy Cross leave, Siena and Hartford join. At this point the conference is seven private, 3 public: the small northern New England state universities.

By 1991: Canisius, Niagara, Colgate, Siena leave. Delaware and Drexel join. Both are stretching the footprint to keep the conference at eight.

Hofstra and Towson join and then they and Delaware and Dreel leave. The league is back down to six so they add the three SUNY schools in 2001.

Forced/judicially augmented. You pick a term. Same as secondary public university/midsized public university.

By 2003: Northeastern leaves, UMBC joins.

By 2013: Boston U leaves, UMass-Lowell joins.

By 2020: NJIT added bringing conference to 10 schools (9 public).

Hartford and Stony Brook are leaving, so Bryant is added.

In the next decade a lot of schools may be downwardly mobile.

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 12:21 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 07:31 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

I don't know that Hartford ever sought to be compared to Amherst or Bowdoin or other liberal arts colleges. It was founded in 1957, and could be seen more as a failure of the state of Connecticut to fund public education ("we have Yale, why do we need another school in Hartford.").

I think it actually fits the profile of many of the other schools in the CCC which appear to be oriented more towards practical educations in the sense that graduates will be able to use their majors in their careers.

Actually, jimrtex, UHart (as they like to refer to themselves) is a private institution, so anything to do with the state of Connecticut would have no effect on them at all. That would be a good point to bring up if you were talking about UConn or Central Connecticut though.

You misunderstand. I know that the University of Hartford is a private school. Because northeastern states had long-established private schools with considerable prestige they were late developing their public universities.

Iowa+Iowa State:Drake :: UMass-Amherst+UMass-Lowell:Harvard

is a false analogy.

Because the state of Connecticut had not developed a robust public university system (in part because they had Yale) people in the state capital were forced to start a private university (in 1957). Actually it was a merger of three institutions, the core academic school was Hilyer College which had been founded in 1927 by the WMCA and specialized in automotive studies.

Its mission is more like that of a public university. It is not another private school catering to elite students like Harvard, Yale, Bowdoin (founded 1791), or Amherst (founded 1821).

It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

It will be more of an institutional fit in CCC than it would be in NESCAC.

Part of this is correct (the first and third paragraphs) and part incorrect (second paragraph). Hartford has always been an academic outlier in the AE and was never a true peer in the manner that Drexel or Northeastern were, as private schools. It has produced quality people, no doubt...but the academic rigor at UHA was always questionable.

As for secondary public universities, outside of the political deal (for election purposes) made this year, Binghamton, Albany, Stony Brook, and Buffalo are all university centers, the flagship designation meaning absolutely nothing and currently under review. Binghamton is literally the best of that academic bunch (AAU is literally unattainable due to not having a law/medial school).

Lowell has made massive noise and is fast growing, and ranked ahead of a former AE school, Towson. UMBC would slot into the middle of the CAA, coming in ahead of Towson. NJIT is literally is on the cusp of being a top 100 university, sitting at 103.
Not sure how these schools qualify as "somewhat secondary public universities".

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

Who is though?

(08-19-2022 08:56 PM)Pastasevensamurai Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

Who is though?

univ of hartford is similar to Suffolk Univ or Curry College or Nichols College. kind of the small private college teetering on bankruptcy.

(08-19-2022 08:59 PM)ZooMass84 Wrote:  

(08-19-2022 08:56 PM)Pastasevensamurai Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

Who is though?

univ of hartford is similar to Suffolk Univ or Curry College or Nichols College. kind of the small private college teetering on bankruptcy.

I was referencing who is actually ready for the enrollment decline? Harvards, etc will get their students but 99% are not ready. A forward thinking President is cutting now and dropping programs to be ready for the drop.

...I just rooted thru the CCC site and all of the members, and dang near half of them are in Boston or nearby - I swear, you can't even throw a squirt bottle of mustard in or about the Boston City Limits without hitting an institution of higher learning... Good on ya, Chouds!

(08-16-2022 08:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Lawsuit stemming from a communication to MBB coach

As the University of Hartford gets set to start another school year, it marks the next step on its transition from Division I to Division III sports.

The administration said the move, announced in May of 2021, better aligns with the school’s mission. But some in athletics say the move has unaligned their career.

University of Hartford Men’s Basketball Head Coach John Gallagher is suing a member of the university’s Board of Regents, alleging that Gallagher declined an offer to join the University of Oklahoma coaching staff because of reassurances that Hartford would not move to Division III. But just a month after that alleged conversation, the university voted to finalize the move.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/spor...r/2852988/

This will probably settle rather quickly (the former student-athlete suit looks like it has sharper teeth), but I kind of hope it doesn’t so that discovery unveils a bigger picture on how long and when this topic surfaced and was handled.

Dumb move by the board member, though. Then again, what does it say that the coach is talking to them and not the AD or president/chancellor?

(08-18-2022 12:42 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:36 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

Every single public school in America East is Carnegie R1 or R2.

Are Maryland and UMBC interchangeable?
Rutgers and NJIT?
UMass-Amherst and UMass-Lowell
Stony Brook and Binghamton?

Binghamton has routinely been the HIGHEST ranked University Center of the SUNY System the past two decades on most of the best college lists. It has become the most selective of SUNY's for admission and is the fastest growing University Center.

Despite a declaration from the NY Governor this year naming U Buffalo and Stony Brook as co-flagships, above their 50-year SUNY University Center peers Albany and Binghamton. Binghamton was highest ranked of the University Centers again in the most recent list from US News & World Report.

(08-19-2022 08:59 PM)ZooMass84 Wrote:  

(08-19-2022 08:56 PM)Pastasevensamurai Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 08:42 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  As Bill Parcells once said, "you are who your schedule says you are." Hartford is banking that Division III will position it as a comparable academic choice among the liberal arts colleges of new England; yet, no one will confuse them with Amherst or Bowdoin. Instead, they are aligned with generic and somewhat underfunded schools (Curry, Endicott, Western New England) which are not prepared for the coming decline of high school students from New England.

Who is though?

univ of hartford is similar to Suffolk Univ or Curry College or Nichols College. kind of the small private college teetering on bankruptcy.

Suffolk isn't remotely in that category. They are beyond fine financially, and gobbling up downtown real estate. It has literally grown by a 1/3 in 2 years, even with the pandemic levels of other colleges decreasing.

(08-20-2022 10:16 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:42 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:36 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:30 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  It was somewhat of a peer to the schools in the America East (which has transitioned from predominately private to predominately public). The America East has been forced to pick up somewhat secondary public universities: UMass-Lowell, UMBC, Binghamton, NJIT.

Every single public school in America East is Carnegie R1 or R2.

Are Maryland and UMBC interchangeable?
Rutgers and NJIT?
UMass-Amherst and UMass-Lowell
Stony Brook and Binghamton?

Binghamton has routinely been the HIGHEST ranked University Center of the SUNY System the past two decades on most of the best college lists. It has become the most selective of SUNY's for admission and is the fastest growing University Center.

Despite a declaration from the NY Governor this year naming U Buffalo and Stony Brook as co-flagships, above their 50-year SUNY University Center peers Albany and Binghamton. Binghamton was highest ranked of the University Centers again in the most recent list from US News & World Report.

Completely concur. The flagship status was for Hochul's election purposes...that's all. Changed noting with rules, funding, etc. Unless you pay attention to NYS Higher Education politics...the designation means nothing. Binghamton and Albany have protested this and the flagship designation is now under review. Additionally, and to quell the storm Hochul has increased funding for Binghamton's growth (building purchases, etc.) and has publicly stated that she wants to give Albany back the CSNE that it built, which was stolen in a backroom deal and given to SUNY Poly by an administrator who is waiting for federal sentencing related to the steal and bid rigging. A return of CSNE to Albany would put them as the top research based school in SUNY and a likely return to the 100-108 national ranking it had prior to the removal of the school.

In franked order of the University Centers, it goes: Binghamton, Buffalo, Stony Brook, and rounded out by Albany. Full stop, end discussion for anyone who knows. To put this into perspective, there are 60 more SUNY schools...so these are creme de la creme universities out of the largest State college system in the country (largest by a long mile). Only combining both California systems would surpass the SUNY system...and the next largest system is 200% smaller. All four SUNY Centers are among the best in world.

That gets us back to the original comment about Hartford and the AE-- they have never been a fit in the 1990s-current AE. They were a fit when the league was called the ECAC North, and only from a size perspective. Academically, it was never on par even with the original iteration of the ECAC North, which featured Holy Cross, Rhode Island, Colgate, Northeastern, BU, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. Siena and Hartford were "need" adds and Siena's academics far exceeded that of Hartford's. They were geographical adds to replace Rhode Island and Holy Cross. The two schools in the league, which Hartford "matched" academically, were Canisius and Niagara...and those schools were in the ECAC North as a pair duo for location to fit with Colgate.

Hartford has been long known as a school where wealthy family send their children who cannot get into "choice" schools. That role, somewhat, was transferred to Quinnipiac...until Quinnipiac purchased the medical and law schools. A similar institution would be Rollins.

I love my Hartford fan friends...they are super kind, intelligent folk. However, they and others readily discuss that the school could close in 5-10 years.