(07-20-2022 12:08 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Seems St. Thomas scrapped the hockey arena plan at the Ford site. A small but vocal opposition seemed to be brewing, but I don't know if that was the cause or if it was that St. Thomas found a more suitable location or what. “after careful assessment, the university has determined the Highland Bridge site is no longer a viable option for a future hockey facility, primarily due to financial considerations.” https://www.twincities.com/2022/07/07/st...ll-remain/

There were pretty vigorous objections to building a tax-exempt sports complex on the land. St. Paul has many tax exempt properties because of the state government and universities, and they really can't handle many more.

(07-19-2022 11:59 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  To all they Augie haters, or really just the people who were skeptical that Augie would be legit (for hockey only), they finally posted a rendering for the interior of their, currently under construction, new rink. Seems legit to me.

https://twitter.com/AugustanaSD/status/1...9921838081

To sum up this very topic we discussed over on AZZ a bit ago, while I'm not an Augie "hater" per se, I a) never doubted they were legit and b) am still not thrilled they are in the CCHA. A shiny new arena doesn't change the travel issues nor does it address the CCHA having to absorb another small school startup that torpedoes the league PWR while bringing zero in the way of cashola to the table. Fox is not going to be outbidding FloSports for the broadcast rights to Augustana at Ferris State. I prefer they either join the Nachos or stay an independent for a few years, but Lucia didn't bother asking for my input. Now if the deal they cut to get into the league involves travel subsidies, then that moves the needle a bit (I've not heard anything on this).

(07-19-2022 11:59 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  To all they Augie haters, or really just the people who were skeptical that Augie would be legit (for hockey only), they finally posted a rendering for the interior of their, currently under construction, new rink. Seems legit to me.

I've certainly been (and remain) skeptical of a lot of college hockey startups, but I don't think Augustana falls in that category. They have the money and the will to run a real D-I program. They will probably slot in nicely in college hockey's meaty middle, which is perfectly fine.

I would like the record to reflect that I remain skeptical of resurrected UAA, LIU, Lindenwood, and Stonehill, for varying reasons and to varying degrees.

(07-20-2022 08:58 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  I would like the record to reflect that I remain skeptical of resurrected UAA, LIU, Lindenwood, and Stonehill, for varying reasons and to varying degrees.

Add Huntsville to your list?

(07-20-2022 12:38 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Looks legit to me. I personally don't have a problem with Augie coming into the Summit for all sports, and letting football be in the Pioneer Conference.

They aren't move the whole department to DI, just hockey.

They'll stay in the DII NSIC (with other DII w/DI-hockey schools UMD, SCSU, BSU, and MSU-Mankato).

(07-20-2022 09:12 AM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:58 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  I would like the record to reflect that I remain skeptical of resurrected UAA, LIU, Lindenwood, and Stonehill, for varying reasons and to varying degrees.

Add Huntsville to your list?

Different class, as they aren't actually scheduled to play any hockey games.

Augustana has announced they are starting a program, hired a coach, broken ground on a hockey specific, appropriately sized arena, and demonstrated a financial commitment commensurate to the middle of D-I.

LIU has started it's program and played games. Great. They are playing off campus in a rink without much seating and a limited number of scholarships. They are just filling space at the bottom of Division I. That isn't contributing anything to the sport.

I have concerns that Stonehill will fall into the same category. They have said they are willing to invest if they get into a conference, but that's placing the cart before the horse. If they aren't willing to make themselves attractive before joining a conference, they aren't going to be a solid program. With both LIU and Stonehill, if the smallest conference in the sport looks at you and says "I don't know if you can hack it with us" that isn't a good sign.

Lindenwood kinda falls in the middle- they have had a women's program for about a decade but have never won more than a third of their games. In theory, the Blues' practice facility could be an okay arena, albeit off campus. I worry that Lindenwood is adding hockey like how LIU added hockey- in a limited scholarship capacity that will draw in tuition paying students.

UAA, I just don't believe in the crowdfunding model. What happens if donations drop off? How many scholarships can they afford? Will they be anything but a revolving door of coaches? Color me incredibly skeptical.

UAH is UAA without an actual team to hit the ice.

(07-20-2022 07:20 AM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  

(07-19-2022 11:59 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  To all they Augie haters, or really just the people who were skeptical that Augie would be legit (for hockey only), they finally posted a rendering for the interior of their, currently under construction, new rink. Seems legit to me.

https://twitter.com/AugustanaSD/status/1...9921838081

To sum up this very topic we discussed over on AZZ a bit ago, while I'm not an Augie "hater" per se, I a) never doubted they were legit and b) am still not thrilled they are in the CCHA. A shiny new arena doesn't change the travel issues nor does it address the CCHA having to absorb another small school startup that torpedoes the league PWR while bringing zero in the way of cashola to the table. Fox is not going to be outbidding FloSports for the broadcast rights to Augustana at Ferris State. I prefer they either join the Nachos or stay an independent for a few years, but Lucia didn't bother asking for my input. Now if the deal they cut to get into the league involves travel subsidies, then that moves the needle a bit (I've not heard anything on this).

I could see that from BGSU perspective, but from a league perspective, Augi fits in nicely with the Minnesota block of schools, which now consists of nearly half the league. They will also likely have Midco televise many of their games, and I could see Midco outbidding Flo on a CCHA package, given that they are working on carriage deals with larger cable companies in the MSP market and potentially other locations, and because they also have an espn+ like streaming service. If Augi hosted playoff games, they will generate as much ticket sales revenue for the league as pretty much anyone in the CCHA, as well.
Consider Augi an investment.

(07-20-2022 09:39 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 12:38 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Looks legit to me. I personally don't have a problem with Augie coming into the Summit for all sports, and letting football be in the Pioneer Conference.

They aren't move the whole department to DI, just hockey.

They'll stay in the DII NSIC (with other DII w/DI-hockey schools UMD, SCSU, BSU, and MSU-Mankato).

I already knew that when I posted that. My point was that I believe that the whole athletic department is ready for DI.

(07-20-2022 11:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I already knew that when I posted that. My point was that I believe that the whole athletic department is ready for DI.

Not according to Augie AD Josh Morton (a former North Dakota QB and Assoc AD). He's stated they couldn't make "DI Augie" work and this option does. It actually better aligns them with Duluth, St. Cloud, (of NCHC) and Bemidji, Mankato (of CCHA). Josh was also an AAD at Michigan State. He's seen top hockey programs run so he's well equipped for what's ahead of him.


Backstory:
The SD Summit schools don't want Augie full DI. Augie is in Sioux Falls, and SDSU is in Brookings and USD is in Vermillion. Augie'd steal some important media light. Hence "no interest" from Summit in Augie.

(07-20-2022 10:31 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:12 AM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:58 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  I would like the record to reflect that I remain skeptical of resurrected UAA, LIU, Lindenwood, and Stonehill, for varying reasons and to varying degrees.

Add Huntsville to your list?

Different class, as they aren't actually scheduled to play any hockey games.

Augustana has announced they are starting a program, hired a coach, broken ground on a hockey specific, appropriately sized arena, and demonstrated a financial commitment commensurate to the middle of D-I.

LIU has started it's program and played games. Great. They are playing off campus in a rink without much seating and a limited number of scholarships. They are just filling space at the bottom of Division I. That isn't contributing anything to the sport.

I have concerns that Stonehill will fall into the same category. They have said they are willing to invest if they get into a conference, but that's placing the cart before the horse. If they aren't willing to make themselves attractive before joining a conference, they aren't going to be a solid program. With both LIU and Stonehill, if the smallest conference in the sport looks at you and says "I don't know if you can hack it with us" that isn't a good sign.

Lindenwood kinda falls in the middle- they have had a women's program for about a decade but have never won more than a third of their games. In theory, the Blues' practice facility could be an okay arena, albeit off campus. I worry that Lindenwood is adding hockey like how LIU added hockey- in a limited scholarship capacity that will draw in tuition paying students.

UAA, I just don't believe in the crowdfunding model. What happens if donations drop off? How many scholarships can they afford? Will they be anything but a revolving door of coaches? Color me incredibly skeptical.

UAH is UAA without an actual team to hit the ice.

For the growth of college hockey, it will be important that programs like LIU, Lindenwood, and Stonehill prove that they can grow and improve their programs. The funny thing about Atlantic Hockey being uninterested in these programs is that I've also heard the opposite in regard to Utica, in that the league coaches are basically worried that Utica will become too competitive.

I think adding these small programs are good for the game though. I want college hockey to grow, and programs like LIU can hopefully will show that a legitimate program can be built over time, organically.

(07-20-2022 10:43 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  I could see that from BGSU perspective, but from a league perspective, Augi fits in nicely with the Minnesota block of schools, which now consists of nearly half the league.

Yeah. I'm a Bowling Greener who doesn't have big problem with it. They don't stretch the footprint much.

It would definitely be nice to add a school much closer to Bowling Green, but until Miami and/or Western Michigan are ready to rejoin, I don't see many options out there.

(07-20-2022 11:24 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 11:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I already knew that when I posted that. My point was that I believe that the whole athletic department is ready for DI.

Not according to Augie AD Josh Morton (a former North Dakota QB and Assoc AD). He's stated they couldn't make "DI Augie" work and this option does. It actually better aligns them with Duluth, St. Cloud, (of NCHC) and Bemidji, Mankato (of CCHA). Josh was also an AAD at Michigan State. He's seen top hockey programs run so he's well equipped for what's ahead of him.


Backstory:
The SD Summit schools don't want Augie full DI. Augie is in Sioux Falls, and SDSU is in Brookings and USD is in Vermillion. Augie'd steal some important media light. Hence "no interest" from Summit in Augie.

To go to DI they need a DI conference. The Summit rejected them. That leaves Big Sky, MVC (Sioux Falls might actually be in the Missouri Valley), OVC, Horizon, Big East (Creighton is reasonably close). CUSA, Big 12, MtW, and B1G are likely too big of a jump). Maybe they'll put a billboard in front of the Summit headquarters.

(07-20-2022 11:24 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 11:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I already knew that when I posted that. My point was that I believe that the whole athletic department is ready for DI.

Not according to Augie AD Josh Morton (a former North Dakota QB and Assoc AD). He's stated they couldn't make "DI Augie" work and this option does. It actually better aligns them with Duluth, St. Cloud, (of NCHC) and Bemidji, Mankato (of CCHA). Josh was also an AAD at Michigan State. He's seen top hockey programs run so he's well equipped for what's ahead of him.


Backstory:
The SD Summit schools don't want Augie full DI. Augie is in Sioux Falls, and SDSU is in Brookings and USD is in Vermillion. Augie'd steal some important media light. Hence "no interest" from Summit in Augie.

Granted, this has little to do with hockey, but from what I have seen, SDSU in Brookings has "tethered " itself athletically to NDSU, which has not been happy in the MVFC or the Summit. Therefore, assuming the above is correct, SDSU would leave around the same time NDSU leaves, which seems like it will be soon. Wouldn't USD prefer an in-state partner if SDSU up and leaves the conference?

(07-20-2022 01:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  ... SDSU in Brookings has "tethered " itself athletically to NDSU, ...

NDSU (mainly media mind you) continues to pine for an FBS invitation, but SDSU publicly states they believe they are in the right place (FCS) and they do seem content.

(07-20-2022 03:52 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 01:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  ... SDSU in Brookings has "tethered " itself athletically to NDSU, ...

NDSU (mainly media mind you) continues to pine for an FBS invitation, but SDSU publicly states they believe they are in the right place (FCS) and they do seem content.

Also SDSU is more serious about basketball than NDSU. SDSU has the conference basketball tournament right in their back yard. Thats a huge deal, especially with the fan turnout that they get. NDSU on the other hand doesn't really have any attachment there.

(07-20-2022 10:43 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 07:20 AM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  

(07-19-2022 11:59 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  To all they Augie haters, or really just the people who were skeptical that Augie would be legit (for hockey only), they finally posted a rendering for the interior of their, currently under construction, new rink. Seems legit to me.

https://twitter.com/AugustanaSD/status/1...9921838081

To sum up this very topic we discussed over on AZZ a bit ago, while I'm not an Augie "hater" per se, I a) never doubted they were legit and b) am still not thrilled they are in the CCHA. A shiny new arena doesn't change the travel issues nor does it address the CCHA having to absorb another small school startup that torpedoes the league PWR while bringing zero in the way of cashola to the table. Fox is not going to be outbidding FloSports for the broadcast rights to Augustana at Ferris State. I prefer they either join the Nachos or stay an independent for a few years, but Lucia didn't bother asking for my input. Now if the deal they cut to get into the league involves travel subsidies, then that moves the needle a bit (I've not heard anything on this).

I could see that from BGSU perspective, but from a league perspective, Augi fits in nicely with the Minnesota block of schools, which now consists of nearly half the league. They will also likely have Midco televise many of their games, and I could see Midco outbidding Flo on a CCHA package, given that they are working on carriage deals with larger cable companies in the MSP market and potentially other locations, and because they also have an espn+ like streaming service. If Augi hosted playoff games, they will generate as much ticket sales revenue for the league as pretty much anyone in the CCHA, as well.
Consider Augi an investment.

If Midco gets CCHA rights, expect 10 minute recruiting pitches for Augie every intermission. It's shameful how much they ballwash SDSU whenever they broadcast Summit games.

This isn't sarcasm, by the way. Halftime of Midco SDSU basketball games against conference opponents are full of commercials for SDSU, interviews with SDSU players about how wonderful being a Jackrabbit is, etc. Not a word from or about the other school, no panel show or anything, just "Sign with SDSU" or "Attend SDSU" for 15 minutes.

Binghamton is conducting a feasibility study:

Quote:Collegiate sports are an important part of our University experience — currently, more than 400 students participate on our Division I athletics teams, and many more are active in our Club Sports programs. Binghamton’s Club Hockey team, for example, placed second in the nation at the Collegiate Hockey Federation Cup this year. Given the strength of this program, as well as growing interest in athletics, the University is currently conducting a study regarding the expansion of our athletics programs to include men’s ice hockey and women’s field hockey.

https://www.binghamton.edu/news/presiden...ummer-2022

(07-20-2022 12:09 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 10:43 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  I could see that from BGSU perspective, but from a league perspective, Augi fits in nicely with the Minnesota block of schools, which now consists of nearly half the league.

Yeah. I'm a Bowling Greener who doesn't have big problem with it. They don't stretch the footprint much.

It would definitely be nice to add a school much closer to Bowling Green, but until Miami and/or Western Michigan are ready to rejoin, I don't see many options out there.

That's true so long as we don't have to do the equivalent of the Alaska Double (Bemidji and Augie in the same year*). I still am not thrilled about another small school startup watering everything down, but if the Plains States posters who are closer to the school than us Midwesterners think there's significant value there, I'll pause my concerns though if there's really that much value there I wonder why the Nachos aren't interested.

*And don't give me any of that "Well, you could do Bemidji one weekend then stay out there and do Augie the next weekend," silliness. Not buying.

(07-21-2022 06:36 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 12:09 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 10:43 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  I could see that from BGSU perspective, but from a league perspective, Augi fits in nicely with the Minnesota block of schools, which now consists of nearly half the league.

Yeah. I'm a Bowling Greener who doesn't have big problem with it. They don't stretch the footprint much.

It would definitely be nice to add a school much closer to Bowling Green, but until Miami and/or Western Michigan are ready to rejoin, I don't see many options out there.

That's true so long as we don't have to do the equivalent of the Alaska Double (Bemidji and Augie in the same year*). I still am not thrilled about another small school startup watering everything down, but if the Plains States posters who are closer to the school than us Midwesterners think there's significant value there, I'll pause my concerns though if there's really that much value there I wonder why the Nachos aren't interested.

*And don't give me any of that "Well, you could do Bemidji one weekend then stay out there and do Augie the next weekend," silliness. Not buying.

Eh, "significant value" might be a little bit much to ask of Augustana. The Stampede do well, but I wouldn't count on that translating to success for Augie. It might even water down both products and hurt hockey as a whole in the city, like what happened to Omaha when they had USHL, AHL, and college hockey splitting loyalties. They'll be a decent and ambitious addition but won't be chasing Mankato for the crown anytime soon.

(07-21-2022 06:36 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  ... I wonder why the Nachos aren't interested.

Remember why the NCHC was formed: The old-old WCHA had just lost UMn and UWi to the newly formed BTHC. The remainder old-old WCHA was dominated by schools looking to run "budget" programs.

UND and DU were having none of that. They took the lead on creating a breakaway group that was going to continue to spend on their programs. To get into the new NCHC you needed to show a history and commitment to the program.

The NCHC hasn't taken Arizona State (name) or St. Thomas (market) either. And you think they'd take Augie from day one.