(06-27-2022 04:55 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 01:11 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 12:46 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

The overturning of Roe had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human rights. That's not a religious issue, that is a moral issue.

Ana is the gift that keeps on giving.

I bet she looks really good makin a sammich in that dress.

Didnt hear a word she said.

(06-27-2022 05:38 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 04:55 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 01:11 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 12:46 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

The overturning of Roe had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human rights. That's not a religious issue, that is a moral issue.

Ana is the gift that keeps on giving.

I bet she looks really good makin a sammich in that dress.

Didnt hear a word she said.

Positional deafness. In the right angle you are deaf to their positions. I found early on that when you hold their ankles and look at the souls of their feet you can't hear a darned thing they say!

BTW: Positional deafness is essential in marriage. Shere will know this already. If you are young, your hearing will get you in trouble!

(06-27-2022 05:38 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 04:55 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 01:11 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 12:46 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

The overturning of Roe had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human rights. That's not a religious issue, that is a moral issue.

Ana is the gift that keeps on giving.

I bet she looks really good makin a sammich in that dress.

Didnt hear a word she said.

She has never REALLY been "loved". And I don't want to take a shot to protect your little tight ass either.

(06-27-2022 05:11 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When pro-abortionists talk about the dangers of childbirth to women, it's rare that it's actually due to giving birth to a child. It's much more likely to be due to error.

Why Do Hundreds of US Women Die Annually in Childbirth?

Quote:Approximately 800 women in the US die each year during pregnancy and within 42 days after delivery. The estimated maternal mortality rate was 26.4 per 100 000 live births in 2015.

Quote:Years of unreliable US maternal mortality data kept the problem under the radar. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) National Center for Health Statistics hasn’t published an official maternal mortality rate since 2007. “It’s a total embarrassment that international databases such as the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development lists a dash for the US’ maternal mortality rate when a country like Mongolia is able to report one,” says Marian MacDorman, PhD, of the Maryland Population Research Center. “Our maternal mortality data are a real mess.”

Quote:More than 60% of pregnancy-related deaths in the United States are preventable, a major 2018 report concluded. Hemorrhage, cardiovascular and coronary conditions, cardiomyopathy, or infection caused nearly half of the deaths, but the leading causes of death varied by race.

Quote:Medical errors, ineffective treatments, and lack of care coordination by clinicians and hospitals are major causes of preventable deaths, according to the report. A mother’s death in the hospital often reflects a lack of preparation to deal with rare or catastrophic complications, says Barbara Levy, MD, vice president, health policy, of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

“Any one hospital is unlikely to have seen a maternal death in the last 5 years because the absolute numbers are relatively small,” Levy says. Consequently, “hospitals put more effort into managing medical emergencies that happen every day versus those that happen once every few years.”

That’s a result of a health care system that prioritizes profit over health outcomes, but that’s not on topic. Either way though you are much more likely to get poor treatment if you are poor, and especially if you are poor and black. The black maternal mortality rate in a lot of states is honestly disgusting, my wife has hammered this home constantly to make sure when we have children to make sure her doctors are taking her concerns seriously and don’t dismiss anything.

(06-27-2022 04:39 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 03:56 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 03:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 03:29 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 01:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I like to think I am pretty good at seeing both sides of this argument. My sense is the American people are not on board with an outright ban on abortion nor are they on board with the limitless abortion rights the Left advocates. As a Texas resident, I liked the bill we had in place----and I have a suspicion that laws automatic "trigger" provision that outright bans abortion (automatically kicks in if Roe vs Wade is overturned) is probably a bridge too far for the majority of Texas voters.

Thus, regardless of my view on abortion----I think its going backfire on Texas Republicans. I can tell you that the vast majority of Texas voters had no idea that "trigger" provision was even in the bill (and to be fair---I doubt many would have thought there was much chance of it ever becoming relevant as most figured Roe vs Wade would never be overturned). Other than that automatic trigger for an outright abortion ban, I think most Texas voters are fine with the Texas heartbeat law provisions. Hopefully, Im wrong and it doesnt backfire on us. I still think economic pain will trump abortion issues in November----but I do think there will be overwhelming pressure in the next session to moderate the abortion law to something closer to the original heartbeat law.

I'm not sure where I think the "line" most people are at, but the 2 extremes of abortion with no limits and full bans of abortions are extremely unpopular, and where many want to go with criminalizing people who get them out of state has the overall popularity of farting in an elevator. Now where I disagree with you is the GOP isn't going to be able to moderate on this issue, because while banning abortion is extremely unpopular overall an extremely powerful, vocal, and organized group of their base have had it as their top issue for decades and it's going to be a litmus test IMO to get out of GOP primaries. I don't think it's going to matter much this election, but this won't just be an issue that goes away this will remain salient for years to come. Pence laid out the goal, nationwide ban, and despite the fact that there obviously is no mandate from the people to do that I can easily see this happening if there's a bloodbath for Dems this cycle (I'd pretty much guarantee it) and then Biden or whoever gets smashed in 2 years (2 years is a long time so who knows but I don't see that loser doing anything to change any narrative at this point). If it wasn't for abortion being put on the table I'd legitimately be predicting the GOP will have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate in 2024. I wouldn't be shocked if they still do, and then the pressure to do this from pro life groups will be immense and the backlash in GOP primaries will be harsh for those who won't go along with it.

Yeah---my concern is a Red Tsunami may turn into just a Red Wave. That said, I think the GOP has more ability to moderate than the Left. While I never thought Roe vs Wade was ethically logical (either its a life or it isnt) or constitutionally correct (there was never any such right in the constitution)--I always thought it was a kind of elegant compromise---even if it lacked solid legal or moral ground. It was a compromise that is likely similar to what would be reached if the center left and center right could simply sit down and negotiate a political/legislative compromise. Given that we can save premature babies earlier and earlier with todays technology---at the very least Roe vs Wade was in need of an update for its admittedly shaky logic of "viability" to continue as a reasonable foundation.

I don't, not because I think either base is more reasonable or flexible than the other but the GOP fears it's base while the Dems despise theirs. Outright banning abortion and defund the police are fairly comparable in terms of their overall popularity. When defund was actually not nearly as toxic as it is right this second right after George Floyd Biden came out and not only said he didn't support Defund but he supported increasing police funding. You and I both know if a single GOP Presidential candidate said something similar in regards to being pro abortion their candidacy would be dead.

If you actually live in reality with the rest of us, you would know pro life has been totally purged from the democrat party and the republican party has a sizable minority of liberal pro abortionists. Where on earth have you been the last 20+ years????

Again, the idea that there will EVER be a nationwide ban on abortion is laughably absurd. This is that 14 year old girl mindset of the progressive left.

We have seen the GOP in power multiple times the last 20 years and they are so divided when in power they struggle to pass even the most mundane and hyper moderate of bills. And you actually think all those liberal and moderate republicans are suddenly going to get in line and vote in a nation wide ban on ABORTION???

I mean come on man, you are not living in reality.

Do you even want to live in reality or just stay stuck in the 14 year old girl reality?

I live in the reality where Roe just fell, something that most didn’t think was seriously possible, where Pence is publicly saying the next goal is nationwide ban, and the conditions could exist to give the GOP a filibuster proof majority in 2024. Also I’ve seen the pro live group to their credit is singularly focused on making this happen and will play the long game and even get in bed with odious figures who would be against many of the thing they stand for morally if it can advance their goal. The pro life people are very clearly good at what they are doing, outlawing abortion outright is an insanely unpopular position that is about to be reality in like half that states because of how good they are. So no I will not put my head in the sand when they are stating what the next goal is, because unlike the pathetic democrats they are actually capable of achieving this.

(06-27-2022 07:14 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I live in the reality where Roe just fell, something that most didn’t think was seriously possible, where Pence is publicly saying the next goal is nationwide ban, and the conditions could exist to give the GOP a filibuster proof majority in 2024. Also I’ve seen the pro live group to their credit is singularly focused on making this happen and will play the long game and even get in bed with odious figures who would be against many of the thing they stand for morally if it can advance their goal. The pro life people are very clearly good at what they are doing, outlawing abortion outright is an insanely unpopular position that is about to be reality in like half that states because of how good they are. So no I will not put my head in the sand when they are stating what the next goal is, because unlike the pathetic democrats they are actually capable of achieving this.

Roe never was in the constitution and if you think it really was the you were NOT living in reality.

Its that cut and dry, and deep down you know it. Your living in a progressive fantasy world and wrapping it around yourself like a warm blanket on a cold night. The fantasy is comforting and soothing and justifies all your views on this decision.

But back here in the real world, this was never in the constitution and the SCOTUS acknowledging that simple fact and republicans passing a nation wide ban are an entire universe apart.

There is ZERO, let me repeat, ZERO evidence whatsoever that republicans could ever pass something as radical as a nation wide ban on abortion. The republican party is not only filled with conservatives, its also filled with liberal republicans in liberal states and liberal districts. You think those districts and states are suddenly going to become pro life? Get real.

I have to wonder how old are you? are politics new to you? If you are over 30, you should know full well the republicans have had majorities in the congress and the WH more than once the last few decades and have failed miserably to pass even their most mild agenda items because of the the moderate and liberal republicans in the congress. They literally tear themselves to pieces when they have majorities. And you think all these liberal pro abortion republicans are suddenly going to vote for a nation wide ban? And you claim you are living in reality on this?

And your entire argument on this is because Mike Pence said he wants this? Again, did you just start paying attention to politics last week? Imagine if I said they really are going to collect all our guns because AOC said so and wants to. How incredibly stupid would it be for me to think that? Its not reality, its fantasy. And if all you have is because Mike Pence said so, you are not living in reality on this.

Just as there will always be conservative Christians like me who wish it was banned, There will always be liberals who wish they could go collect all the guns. But as long as our republic stands, it will NEVER happen. Its not even conceivable unless you are the most paranoid and delusional of a voter.

The truth is you NEED this boogie man fantasy to exist in your head on this issue. Again, its a warm blanket that comforts your feelings on this decision. You know it was never in the constitution to begin with, you know the SCOTUS made the correct decision. Whether you admit to that or not, you know for a fact those things are so.

So you are going to hold onto this imaginary boogie man with all your might, because without it the fantasy that some grave evil has been committed by this SCOTUS decision dissolves all around you.

Well, a lot of us never thought Roe would go bye-bye either & it happened. & the Republican party constituents are fed up w/ Republicans who sit on their hands & a lot of them are getting primaried. It IS possible, tho a bill would be unlikely to pass thru the Senate & House w/ the country as divided as it is at the moment. More work needs to be done on the ground, same w/ Democrats & their gun bans.

I don't see what good it is telling them we're not coming for abortion: we're coming for abortion.

How long will it be before the Democrats try to cutoff federal funding to states with abortion policies they don't like?

(06-27-2022 08:08 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Well, a lot of us never thought Roe would go bye-bye either & it happened. & the Republican party constituents are fed up w/ Republicans who sit on their hands & a lot of them are getting primaried. It IS possible, tho a bill would be unlikely to pass thru the Senate & House w/ the country as divided as it is at the moment. More work needs to be done on the ground, same w/ Democrats & their gun bans.

I don't see what good it is telling them we're not coming for abortion: we're coming for abortion.

Its an emotional reaction that is not rooted in basic critical thought and the real world.

They are trying to compare a SCOTUS decision that we all KNOW is the correct decision, with a legislative decision that requires passage in the House, Senate and signed into law by the WH.

And then has to be held up by each congress and WH that follows every cycle.

And it has to be the republican party that has to win all 3 branches at the same time (AND hold them in perpetuity), and then pass a bill more radical and unpopular than anything they have passed in over a century? All those liberal republicans are suddenly going to vote pro life and stick it to all their voters? You have to be smoking crack to think this is in the cards.

You guys have got to come back down to earth on this. I realize the decision just came down, but people have got to sober up on this and get real. Right now people are just not thinking clearly on this.

Are you going to have people who want it and call for it, YES. Just as we have a host of nutcase leftists that call for all kinds of looney tunes crap that will never become a nation wide law like eliminating the police or collecting all our guns.

But you have to come back down to earth, they simply do not have the support for these things nationwide and never will as long as the republic stands.

When we start seeing polls that show 70% of the public want a nationwide ban, then we can talk.

Until then, this stuff is just pure fanatical fantasy.

(06-27-2022 07:05 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 05:11 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When pro-abortionists talk about the dangers of childbirth to women, it's rare that it's actually due to giving birth to a child. It's much more likely to be due to error.

Why Do Hundreds of US Women Die Annually in Childbirth?

Quote:Approximately 800 women in the US die each year during pregnancy and within 42 days after delivery. The estimated maternal mortality rate was 26.4 per 100 000 live births in 2015.

Quote:Years of unreliable US maternal mortality data kept the problem under the radar. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) National Center for Health Statistics hasn’t published an official maternal mortality rate since 2007. “It’s a total embarrassment that international databases such as the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development lists a dash for the US’ maternal mortality rate when a country like Mongolia is able to report one,” says Marian MacDorman, PhD, of the Maryland Population Research Center. “Our maternal mortality data are a real mess.”

Quote:More than 60% of pregnancy-related deaths in the United States are preventable, a major 2018 report concluded. Hemorrhage, cardiovascular and coronary conditions, cardiomyopathy, or infection caused nearly half of the deaths, but the leading causes of death varied by race.

Quote:Medical errors, ineffective treatments, and lack of care coordination by clinicians and hospitals are major causes of preventable deaths, according to the report. A mother’s death in the hospital often reflects a lack of preparation to deal with rare or catastrophic complications, says Barbara Levy, MD, vice president, health policy, of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

“Any one hospital is unlikely to have seen a maternal death in the last 5 years because the absolute numbers are relatively small,” Levy says. Consequently, “hospitals put more effort into managing medical emergencies that happen every day versus those that happen once every few years.”

That’s a result of a health care system that prioritizes profit over health outcomes, but that’s not on topic. Either way though you are much more likely to get poor treatment if you are poor, and especially if you are poor and black. The black maternal mortality rate in a lot of states is honestly disgusting, my wife has hammered this home constantly to make sure when we have children to make sure her doctors are taking her concerns seriously and don’t dismiss anything.

Why?

(06-27-2022 07:14 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 04:39 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 03:56 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 03:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 03:29 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'm not sure where I think the "line" most people are at, but the 2 extremes of abortion with no limits and full bans of abortions are extremely unpopular, and where many want to go with criminalizing people who get them out of state has the overall popularity of farting in an elevator. Now where I disagree with you is the GOP isn't going to be able to moderate on this issue, because while banning abortion is extremely unpopular overall an extremely powerful, vocal, and organized group of their base have had it as their top issue for decades and it's going to be a litmus test IMO to get out of GOP primaries. I don't think it's going to matter much this election, but this won't just be an issue that goes away this will remain salient for years to come. Pence laid out the goal, nationwide ban, and despite the fact that there obviously is no mandate from the people to do that I can easily see this happening if there's a bloodbath for Dems this cycle (I'd pretty much guarantee it) and then Biden or whoever gets smashed in 2 years (2 years is a long time so who knows but I don't see that loser doing anything to change any narrative at this point). If it wasn't for abortion being put on the table I'd legitimately be predicting the GOP will have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate in 2024. I wouldn't be shocked if they still do, and then the pressure to do this from pro life groups will be immense and the backlash in GOP primaries will be harsh for those who won't go along with it.

Yeah---my concern is a Red Tsunami may turn into just a Red Wave. That said, I think the GOP has more ability to moderate than the Left. While I never thought Roe vs Wade was ethically logical (either its a life or it isnt) or constitutionally correct (there was never any such right in the constitution)--I always thought it was a kind of elegant compromise---even if it lacked solid legal or moral ground. It was a compromise that is likely similar to what would be reached if the center left and center right could simply sit down and negotiate a political/legislative compromise. Given that we can save premature babies earlier and earlier with todays technology---at the very least Roe vs Wade was in need of an update for its admittedly shaky logic of "viability" to continue as a reasonable foundation.

I don't, not because I think either base is more reasonable or flexible than the other but the GOP fears it's base while the Dems despise theirs. Outright banning abortion and defund the police are fairly comparable in terms of their overall popularity. When defund was actually not nearly as toxic as it is right this second right after George Floyd Biden came out and not only said he didn't support Defund but he supported increasing police funding. You and I both know if a single GOP Presidential candidate said something similar in regards to being pro abortion their candidacy would be dead.

If you actually live in reality with the rest of us, you would know pro life has been totally purged from the democrat party and the republican party has a sizable minority of liberal pro abortionists. Where on earth have you been the last 20+ years????

Again, the idea that there will EVER be a nationwide ban on abortion is laughably absurd. This is that 14 year old girl mindset of the progressive left.

We have seen the GOP in power multiple times the last 20 years and they are so divided when in power they struggle to pass even the most mundane and hyper moderate of bills. And you actually think all those liberal and moderate republicans are suddenly going to get in line and vote in a nation wide ban on ABORTION???

I mean come on man, you are not living in reality.

Do you even want to live in reality or just stay stuck in the 14 year old girl reality?

I live in the reality where Roe just fell, something that most didn’t think was seriously possible, where Pence is publicly saying the next goal is nationwide ban, and the conditions could exist to give the GOP a filibuster proof majority in 2024. Also I’ve seen the pro live group to their credit is singularly focused on making this happen and will play the long game and even get in bed with odious figures who would be against many of the thing they stand for morally if it can advance their goal. The pro life people are very clearly good at what they are doing, outlawing abortion outright is an insanely unpopular position that is about to be reality in like half that states because of how good they are. So no I will not put my head in the sand when they are stating what the next goal is, because unlike the pathetic democrats they are actually capable of achieving this.

Why not? Were you not aware that from Day 1 in 1973 millions of people have made it a priority to fight this horrific evil of infanticide?

(06-27-2022 08:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Why not? Were you not aware that from Day 1 in 1973 millions of people have made it a priority to fight this horrific evil of infanticide?

As impossible as Roe getting overturned seemed at times, passing a real nationwide ban in the congress and WH is 10 gazillion times harder than overturning Roe ever was.

The day Jesus takes His seat on the throne in Jerusalem, THEN abortion will be gone FOREVER.

Until then this broken, fallen world will continue the genocide of innocents.

(06-27-2022 07:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 07:14 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I live in the reality where Roe just fell, something that most didn’t think was seriously possible, where Pence is publicly saying the next goal is nationwide ban, and the conditions could exist to give the GOP a filibuster proof majority in 2024. Also I’ve seen the pro live group to their credit is singularly focused on making this happen and will play the long game and even get in bed with odious figures who would be against many of the thing they stand for morally if it can advance their goal. The pro life people are very clearly good at what they are doing, outlawing abortion outright is an insanely unpopular position that is about to be reality in like half that states because of how good they are. So no I will not put my head in the sand when they are stating what the next goal is, because unlike the pathetic democrats they are actually capable of achieving this.

Roe never was in the constitution and if you think it really was the you were NOT living in reality.

Its that cut and dry, and deep down you know it. Your living in a progressive fantasy world and wrapping it around yourself like a warm blanket on a cold night. The fantasy is comforting and soothing and justifies all your views on this decision.

But back here in the real world, this was never in the constitution and the SCOTUS acknowledging that simple fact and republicans passing a nation wide ban are an entire universe apart.

There is ZERO, let me repeat, ZERO evidence whatsoever that republicans could ever pass something as radical as a nation wide ban on abortion. The republican party is not only filled with conservatives, its also filled with liberal republicans in liberal states and liberal districts. You think those districts and states are suddenly going to become pro life? Get real.

I have to wonder how old are you? are politics new to you? If you are over 30, you should know full well the republicans have had majorities in the congress and the WH more than once the last few decades and have failed miserably to pass even their most mild agenda items because of the the moderate and liberal republicans in the congress. They literally tear themselves to pieces when they have majorities. And you think all these liberal pro abortion republicans are suddenly going to vote for a nation wide ban? And you claim you are living in reality on this?

And your entire argument on this is because Mike Pence said he wants this? Again, did you just start paying attention to politics last week? Imagine if I said they really are going to collect all our guns because AOC said so and wants to. How incredibly stupid would it be for me to think that? Its not reality, its fantasy. And if all you have is because Mike Pence said so, you are not living in reality on this.

Just as there will always be conservative Christians like me who wish it was banned, There will always be liberals who wish they could go collect all the guns. But as long as our republic stands, it will NEVER happen. Its not even conceivable unless you are the most paranoid and delusional of a voter.

The truth is you NEED this boogie man fantasy to exist in your head on this issue. Again, its a warm blanket that comforts your feelings on this decision. You know it was never in the constitution to begin with, you know the SCOTUS made the correct decision. Whether you admit to that or not, you know for a fact those things are so.

So you are going to hold onto this imaginary boogie man with all your might, because without it the fantasy that some grave evil has been committed by this SCOTUS decision dissolves all around you.

There is a lot more evidence for what I’m stating than the boogie man that Dems are taking your guns. This “sound constitutional decision” by the other justices claims that the other court cases held up on the same “right to privacy” aren’t at risk, except Thomas who admits the truth that if you hold this logic as truth then a number of cases should be overturned, including Loving. Now of course Thomas will let Loving slide because this isn’t about sound principle it’s about what impacts him and his personal belief. There’s zero reason to name check those other three cases but leave off Loving.

(06-27-2022 08:31 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 07:05 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 05:11 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When pro-abortionists talk about the dangers of childbirth to women, it's rare that it's actually due to giving birth to a child. It's much more likely to be due to error.

Why Do Hundreds of US Women Die Annually in Childbirth?

Quote:Approximately 800 women in the US die each year during pregnancy and within 42 days after delivery. The estimated maternal mortality rate was 26.4 per 100 000 live births in 2015.

Quote:Years of unreliable US maternal mortality data kept the problem under the radar. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) National Center for Health Statistics hasn’t published an official maternal mortality rate since 2007. “It’s a total embarrassment that international databases such as the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development lists a dash for the US’ maternal mortality rate when a country like Mongolia is able to report one,” says Marian MacDorman, PhD, of the Maryland Population Research Center. “Our maternal mortality data are a real mess.”

Quote:More than 60% of pregnancy-related deaths in the United States are preventable, a major 2018 report concluded. Hemorrhage, cardiovascular and coronary conditions, cardiomyopathy, or infection caused nearly half of the deaths, but the leading causes of death varied by race.

Quote:Medical errors, ineffective treatments, and lack of care coordination by clinicians and hospitals are major causes of preventable deaths, according to the report. A mother’s death in the hospital often reflects a lack of preparation to deal with rare or catastrophic complications, says Barbara Levy, MD, vice president, health policy, of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

“Any one hospital is unlikely to have seen a maternal death in the last 5 years because the absolute numbers are relatively small,” Levy says. Consequently, “hospitals put more effort into managing medical emergencies that happen every day versus those that happen once every few years.”

That’s a result of a health care system that prioritizes profit over health outcomes, but that’s not on topic. Either way though you are much more likely to get poor treatment if you are poor, and especially if you are poor and black. The black maternal mortality rate in a lot of states is honestly disgusting, my wife has hammered this home constantly to make sure when we have children to make sure her doctors are taking her concerns seriously and don’t dismiss anything.

Why?

Are you seriously asking why you would get lesser treatment if you are poor? Like actually asking that not jokingly?

(06-27-2022 08:45 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
There is a lot more evidence for what I’m stating than the boogie man that Dems are taking your guns. This “sound constitutional decision” by the other justices claims that the other court cases held up on the same “right to privacy” aren’t at risk, except Thomas who admits the truth that if you hold this logic as truth then a number of cases should be overturned, including Loving. Now of course Thomas will let Loving slide because this isn’t about sound principle it’s about what impacts him and his personal belief. There’s zero reason to name check those other three cases but leave off Loving.

In your fantasy world, sure. I image you see its not only possible but just around the corner. But again you have a strong need for that fantasy, a need to wrap yourself in that blanket for warmth and comfort right now. This is what politics does to people those, it blinds them and makes them delusional.

You don't even seem to grasp that it not only has to pass all 3 one party branches, it has to be held up when the pendulum swings back to the other part the next cycle.

Your party is the one who thinks republicans are all racist white men, and demographics are about to make us a minority party forever.

Now suddenly we are going to take the House, Senate and WH and hold them from now on in some kind of ultra conservative super majority?



This stuff is looney tunes.

You would think me giving you this dose of reality would make you feel better on this, because everything I am saying is common sense stuff. This is how our political system works. It just swings back and forth from one party to the other and nothing big has got done in decades.

But you need that boogie man fantasy badly right now. And you will keep a death grip on it at all costs and in all defiance of reality.

I'm just trying to snap you out of it and bring you back down to earth.

But I get it, you don't want to. You want to hang on tight to that boogie man. Its helps you to feel you are on the right side of this.

(06-27-2022 08:45 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  There’s zero reason to name check those other three cases but leave off Loving.

Yep. Zero legal reasons to leave out Loving, but one great big, right-wing extremist reason named GINNI

There are plenty of non religious reasons to oppose abortion. Most even rely upon SCIENCE!!!! I was raised as a Christian (Catholic), left the church before confirmation. My sister left a few years later, my parents a couple years after that. I believe in God but not in Christianity, although I respect and admire peoples' faith in Jesus.

Scientifically speaking, there is a unique life form (baby, human) created at the moment of fertilization of the egg by sperm. This life form will not become an elephant, a potato, a rock, a nebula or something else. It will become a baby girl or boy. It's a person, and very much not a part of a woman's body. There's a symbiotic relationship where each partner provides tremendous, scientific benefits to the other. The idea that we can just ignore these facts for the sake of convenience, and that's what most abortions are, is a little sick.

I'm hopeful that medical science will progress us to the point in 50 or 100 years (or whenever) where we can extract the fetus and incubate it and produce a healthy, living baby (as currently construed) in lieu of a mom and dad. And yes, we should address all of the medical concerns as well as childcare funding options. That's a healthy debate I'd happily have, and yes, for which I'd happily pay higher taxes.

Aside- I'm happy we're talking about women again and not the mentally deranged people who were born with wombs who think they're men.

(06-27-2022 08:54 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 08:31 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 07:05 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-27-2022 05:11 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  When pro-abortionists talk about the dangers of childbirth to women, it's rare that it's actually due to giving birth to a child. It's much more likely to be due to error.

Why Do Hundreds of US Women Die Annually in Childbirth?

Quote:Approximately 800 women in the US die each year during pregnancy and within 42 days after delivery. The estimated maternal mortality rate was 26.4 per 100 000 live births in 2015.

Quote:Years of unreliable US maternal mortality data kept the problem under the radar. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) National Center for Health Statistics hasn’t published an official maternal mortality rate since 2007. “It’s a total embarrassment that international databases such as the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development lists a dash for the US’ maternal mortality rate when a country like Mongolia is able to report one,” says Marian MacDorman, PhD, of the Maryland Population Research Center. “Our maternal mortality data are a real mess.”

Quote:More than 60% of pregnancy-related deaths in the United States are preventable, a major 2018 report concluded. Hemorrhage, cardiovascular and coronary conditions, cardiomyopathy, or infection caused nearly half of the deaths, but the leading causes of death varied by race.

Quote:Medical errors, ineffective treatments, and lack of care coordination by clinicians and hospitals are major causes of preventable deaths, according to the report. A mother’s death in the hospital often reflects a lack of preparation to deal with rare or catastrophic complications, says Barbara Levy, MD, vice president, health policy, of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

“Any one hospital is unlikely to have seen a maternal death in the last 5 years because the absolute numbers are relatively small,” Levy says. Consequently, “hospitals put more effort into managing medical emergencies that happen every day versus those that happen once every few years.”

That’s a result of a health care system that prioritizes profit over health outcomes, but that’s not on topic. Either way though you are much more likely to get poor treatment if you are poor, and especially if you are poor and black. The black maternal mortality rate in a lot of states is honestly disgusting, my wife has hammered this home constantly to make sure when we have children to make sure her doctors are taking her concerns seriously and don’t dismiss anything.

Why?

Are you seriously asking why you would get lesser treatment if you are poor? Like actually asking that not jokingly?

Define health care.

Or do you mean health insurance? Health care is a commodity, not a right. Someone earns money by taking care of another person. Poor people aren’t turned away in emergencies, there is a specific pool called Medicaid that goes directly toward helping poor people.

What about non poor people? Those that provide wealth so the poor can eat? Their costs continue to go up through regulation and inflation while the poor sit on their asses and wait for the check every month.