https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/0...nit-a77877
Story about the 31st Airborne, paratroopers who were the advance guard in the invasion.

"On a remote plain on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border the morning of Feb. 24, hundreds of paratroopers from Russia’s 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade boarded helicopters they thought were bound for a training ground in western Belarus.

But once the units were airborne, senior officers turned to the men to tell them that they were actually at war with Ukraine.

Instead of Grodno, they entered Ukrainian airspace on their way to Hostomel airport near the capital city of Kyiv.

“The troops were f*****g shocked, people turned gray, especially considering we took fire in the air,” said Nikita Ponomarev, a paratrooper later captured by the Ukrainians...

Extra equipment and reinforcements were supposed to arrive within 24 hours, according to Ponomarev, but took significantly longer.

“After three days, it was still only us,” he said.

Even as the airport remained unsecured, Russian tanks and armored vehicles flooded into northern Ukraine, heading for Kyiv. In a dramatic address on Feb. 25, Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky warned Russia would soon “attempt to storm the capital.”

There was an ominous feeling in the air at Hostomel the next morning, Ponomarev recalled. Suddenly, Ukrainian artillery slammed into the buildings. The barrage lasted two hours, killing dozens of soldiers and destroying large amounts of equipment. “There was nothing left — not even a turret,” Ponomarev said. “Almost nobody survived that day...."

“Russia’s elite forces were absolutely annihilated,” said Nick Reynolds, a military analyst at the London-based RUSI think tank, of the subsequent urban warfare as Ukraine desperately tried to halt the Russian advance. ..."

(06-02-2022 08:20 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 07:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61607184

And some who have been pulled off the front lines are refusing to go back.

""...I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.

"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"

Sergey joined the army as a conscript - most Russian men between the ages of 18-27 must complete one year of compulsory military service. But, after a few months, he made the decision to sign a two-year professional contract which would also give him a salary.

In January, Sergey was sent near the border with Ukraine for what he was told would be military drills. A month later - 24 February, the day Russia launched its invasion - he was told to cross the border. Almost immediately his unit found itself under attack.

As they stopped for the evening in an abandoned farm, their commander said: "Well, as you will have worked out by now, this is not a joke."

Sergey says he was completely shocked.

"My first thoughts were 'Is this really happening to me?'"

They were continually shelled, he says, both when moving and when parked overnight. In his unit of 50 people, 10 were killed and 10 others wounded. Almost all his comrades were under the age of 25.

He heard of Russian servicemen so inexperienced that they "did not know how to shoot and couldn't tell one end of a mortar from another".

He says his convoy - travelling through northern Ukraine - broke up after just four days when a bridge they were about to cross exploded, killing comrades ahead of them...."

That bbc stuff is straight up propaganda. Blind Kittens. Gtfoh


And somehow:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Ukraine is losing between 60 and 100 service members daily as fighting in the Donbas intensifies.

"The most difficult situation is in the east of Ukraine and southern Donetsk and Luhansk," he said in a late-night interview with Newsmax Tuesday.

"The situation is very difficult," he continued. "We're losing 60-100 soldiers per day as killed in action and something around 500 people as wounded in action."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-zel...bers-daily

Russian forces are currently occupying about 20% of Ukraine’s territory, president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address to the Luxembourg parliament. The front lines of battle stretch across more than 1,000km (620 miles), the Ukrainian president said, adding that 100 Ukrainians are dying on a daily basis in eastern Ukraine, and another 450-500 people are wounded.

___________

Keep sending money and weapons.

If this is winning id hate to see losing

A couple of thoughts on this statement - "Russian forces are currently occupying about 20% of Ukraine’s territory, president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address to the Luxembourg parliament"

1) I'd be interested to know what percentage of this 20% is a result of the current invasion. Ukraine still considers Crimea along with territories already captured in Donetsk and Luhansk to be Ukrainian territory, so I would assume those areas are part of the 20%.

2) Also, what Zelensky's statement did not acknowledge is that the vast majority of territory gained by Russia happened in the days and weeks immediately following the invasion. Also, by late March the Russian army held significantly more territory than they currently do (prior to withdrawing from the north).

I find this graphic to be useful, it's from Wikipedia so likely not perfectly accurate, but it does tell a good tale of what has occurred since late February.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukra...imated.gif

Putin's War, Week 14. Advanced Artillery, a Missing General, and a Grind With No Visible End

(06-03-2022 11:48 AM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 08:20 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 07:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61607184

And some who have been pulled off the front lines are refusing to go back.

""...I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.

"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"

Sergey joined the army as a conscript - most Russian men between the ages of 18-27 must complete one year of compulsory military service. But, after a few months, he made the decision to sign a two-year professional contract which would also give him a salary.

In January, Sergey was sent near the border with Ukraine for what he was told would be military drills. A month later - 24 February, the day Russia launched its invasion - he was told to cross the border. Almost immediately his unit found itself under attack.

As they stopped for the evening in an abandoned farm, their commander said: "Well, as you will have worked out by now, this is not a joke."

Sergey says he was completely shocked.

"My first thoughts were 'Is this really happening to me?'"

They were continually shelled, he says, both when moving and when parked overnight. In his unit of 50 people, 10 were killed and 10 others wounded. Almost all his comrades were under the age of 25.

He heard of Russian servicemen so inexperienced that they "did not know how to shoot and couldn't tell one end of a mortar from another".

He says his convoy - travelling through northern Ukraine - broke up after just four days when a bridge they were about to cross exploded, killing comrades ahead of them...."

That bbc stuff is straight up propaganda. Blind Kittens. Gtfoh


And somehow:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Ukraine is losing between 60 and 100 service members daily as fighting in the Donbas intensifies.

"The most difficult situation is in the east of Ukraine and southern Donetsk and Luhansk," he said in a late-night interview with Newsmax Tuesday.

"The situation is very difficult," he continued. "We're losing 60-100 soldiers per day as killed in action and something around 500 people as wounded in action."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-zel...bers-daily

Russian forces are currently occupying about 20% of Ukraine’s territory, president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address to the Luxembourg parliament. The front lines of battle stretch across more than 1,000km (620 miles), the Ukrainian president said, adding that 100 Ukrainians are dying on a daily basis in eastern Ukraine, and another 450-500 people are wounded.

___________

Keep sending money and weapons.

If this is winning id hate to see losing

A couple of thoughts on this statement - "Russian forces are currently occupying about 20% of Ukraine’s territory, president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address to the Luxembourg parliament"

1) I'd be interested to know what percentage of this 20% is a result of the current invasion. Ukraine still considers Crimea along with territories already captured in Donetsk and Luhansk to be Ukrainian territory, so I would assume those areas are part of the 20%.

2) Also, what Zelensky's statement did not acknowledge is that the vast majority of territory gained by Russia happened in the days and weeks immediately following the invasion. Also, by late March the Russian army held significantly more territory than they currently do (prior to withdrawing from the north).

I find this graphic to be useful, it's from Wikipedia so likely not perfectly accurate, but it does tell a good tale of what has occurred since late February.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukra...imated.gif

I've seen the figure 7% for the 2014 invasion.

(06-03-2022 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-03-2022 11:48 AM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 08:20 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 07:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61607184

And some who have been pulled off the front lines are refusing to go back.

""...I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.

"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"

Sergey joined the army as a conscript - most Russian men between the ages of 18-27 must complete one year of compulsory military service. But, after a few months, he made the decision to sign a two-year professional contract which would also give him a salary.

In January, Sergey was sent near the border with Ukraine for what he was told would be military drills. A month later - 24 February, the day Russia launched its invasion - he was told to cross the border. Almost immediately his unit found itself under attack.

As they stopped for the evening in an abandoned farm, their commander said: "Well, as you will have worked out by now, this is not a joke."

Sergey says he was completely shocked.

"My first thoughts were 'Is this really happening to me?'"

They were continually shelled, he says, both when moving and when parked overnight. In his unit of 50 people, 10 were killed and 10 others wounded. Almost all his comrades were under the age of 25.

He heard of Russian servicemen so inexperienced that they "did not know how to shoot and couldn't tell one end of a mortar from another".

He says his convoy - travelling through northern Ukraine - broke up after just four days when a bridge they were about to cross exploded, killing comrades ahead of them...."

That bbc stuff is straight up propaganda. Blind Kittens. Gtfoh


And somehow:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Ukraine is losing between 60 and 100 service members daily as fighting in the Donbas intensifies.

"The most difficult situation is in the east of Ukraine and southern Donetsk and Luhansk," he said in a late-night interview with Newsmax Tuesday.

"The situation is very difficult," he continued. "We're losing 60-100 soldiers per day as killed in action and something around 500 people as wounded in action."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-zel...bers-daily

Russian forces are currently occupying about 20% of Ukraine’s territory, president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address to the Luxembourg parliament. The front lines of battle stretch across more than 1,000km (620 miles), the Ukrainian president said, adding that 100 Ukrainians are dying on a daily basis in eastern Ukraine, and another 450-500 people are wounded.

___________

Keep sending money and weapons.

If this is winning id hate to see losing

A couple of thoughts on this statement - "Russian forces are currently occupying about 20% of Ukraine’s territory, president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address to the Luxembourg parliament"

1) I'd be interested to know what percentage of this 20% is a result of the current invasion. Ukraine still considers Crimea along with territories already captured in Donetsk and Luhansk to be Ukrainian territory, so I would assume those areas are part of the 20%.

2) Also, what Zelensky's statement did not acknowledge is that the vast majority of territory gained by Russia happened in the days and weeks immediately following the invasion. Also, by late March the Russian army held significantly more territory than they currently do (prior to withdrawing from the north).

I find this graphic to be useful, it's from Wikipedia so likely not perfectly accurate, but it does tell a good tale of what has occurred since late February.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukra...imated.gif

I've seen the figure 7% for the 2014 invasion.

The 20% has to include the Donbas and Crimea. That said---it depends on who you talk to. The Russians see Crimea as theirs and the Donbas as independent (thats probably 10% or so). The Ukrainians see all of those areas as Ukrainian land. The situation on the ground prior to the war had Russia in charge of all of Crimea and about a third of the Donbass (which maybe was less than 10% and closer to 7%--idk). The areas up north near Kharkiv, the extended "land bridge" gains in the south, plus the extra Dombas lands they control probably make up another 10% or so on top of what they already had. That seems pretty reasonable just eyeballing it.

As for winning and losing---thats relative. A couple of points, relative to the start of the war---Ukraine is probably worse off. That said, it we consider the situation at the end of March---from the Ukrainian point of view---the map today actually looks much better now than it did in March. The reality is this war is going to last a while and will have ebbs and flows. One thing to keep in mind, the US was "winning" in Afghanistan the entire time we were there---yet I dont think anyone's considering that a "win" for the US. Sometimes its not about "who's winning". Sometimes simply "avoiding total defeat" for long enough is a more than adequate defense---eventually causing the nation "winning" the war to the negotiating table.

Finally, when it comes to who is "winning"---its important to understand that Russia prepared for a year arranging and building up forces for the war. Ukraine was relatively unprepared and western nations refrained from sending substantial weapons systems prior to war to avoid "provoking" Putin. Since the start of the war, Ukraine has been playing catch up in terms of mobilization and weapons systems. Thus, the force advantage Russia had on day one of the war is likely about as big an advantage as they will ever have, and as time goes on---that advantage is shrinking. Thus, the failure to capitalize on that huge early advantage---to land the quick knockout punch could be considered a "loss" in itself. Point is---in determining who is "winning"---its obvious Russia has clearly been able to take part of Ukraine---but a year from now---the failure of the Russian Army to land that quick knock out blow when it had its biggest advantage may be viewed as point where the war was "won" by the Ukrainians.

Spain sending tanks to Ukraine.

Quote:Spain is ready to send Leopard battle tanks and anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine, according to Spanish newspaper El Pais.

The move would mark an increase of Spanish military support of Kyiv. Spain will also provide training for the Ukrainian army on using the tanks, according to the report, which cites government sources.

The instruction would begin in Latvia, which already hosts 500 Spanish soldiers as part of a NATO operation, and a second phase could potentially take place in Spain, according to El Pais.

The Spanish government has not commented on the report.

The Leopold tanks were made in Germany and then sold to Spain, which means Berlin would need to approve re-export before they can be delivered to Ukraine.

The German Economy Ministry, which is in charge of granting export authorizations, had no comment, and referred questions to the chancellery, which had no immediate comment.

Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez pledged to send more weapons and ammunition to Ukraine while visiting Kyiv back in April.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-to...s-reports/

Biden clowning again. Maybe they should just not let him talk at all. https://nypost.com/2022/06/03/biden-says...ssia-land/

“"...Does Ukraine have to cede territory to achieve peace?” a reporter asked Biden after his remarks on the May jobs report.

“From the beginning, I’ve said and I’ve been — not everyone’s agreed with me — nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine,” Biden began his answer. “It’s their territory. I’m not going to tell them what they should and shouldn’t do.

“But it appears to me that at some point along the line, there’s going to have to be a negotiated settlement here,” the president added. “And what that entails, I don’t know...."

That "But" sentence was just stupid. It was a green light to Putin to take a hardline.

IF, as our media keep trying to convince us, Ukraine is winning this war, WHY would they even consider a negotiated settlement? If you are winning, that doesn't happen.

Biden's mouth just betrayed the narrative.

(06-06-2022 03:08 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  IF, as our media keep trying to convince us, Ukraine is winning this war, WHY would they even consider a negotiated settlement? If you are winning, that doesn't happen.

Biden's mouth just betrayed the narrative.

Again---what is winning? In 1942 Japan was "winning". As I mentioned before, Russia spent a year building forces, weapons, and supplies around Ukraine. Because the west didnt want to "provoke" Putin----the west refused to send Ukraine much of any real weaponry until just days before it became clear war was coming. From a weaponry and man power prospective----Ukraine has been playing catch up since day one. What that means is that Russia's biggest advantage was at the wars start---and that advantage in man-power and weaponry has been declining every since. Once Ukraine has long range artillery systems operational that can accurately hit 50 miles or so behind Russian lines (those NATO MLRS systems should be hitting targets on the front about 3 weeks from now), thats a difference maker. Additionally----all those those men Ukraine called up when the war started 3 months ago are now trained and arriving in numbers at the front. Dont be surprised if a month from now----Russia doesnt look like they are "winning" anymore.

Try to keep up, Coog. I'm not really concerned which side seems to have the advantage, now or in the future. My post was all about the official NARRATIVE, not the military facts on the ground.

(06-06-2022 04:36 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Try to keep up, Coog. I'm not really concerned which side seems to have the advantage, now or in the future. My post was all about the official NARRATIVE, not the military facts on the ground.

Sigh. Youve completely missed my point.

If the "narrative" is accurate--then whining about the "narrative" has no validity. Frankly, I really dont get the "surprise" of many about this 20% announcement. They show the battle map every day. Its been obvious for a while that Russia controls roughly 20% of Ukraine. The funny thing is---if you look at a battlefield map from a couple of months ago (March 20th to be exact)---it becomes clear the amount of Ukraine occupied by Russia has actually declined over the last 2 months of battle.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/20...rom-day-25

I don't trust any media reporting on the facts on the ground. Every outlet has their agenda even if it is not obvious.

You're fixated on a map. I'm just saying that since day 1 American media has told us we have to support Ukraine or we are a Putin puppet. I rejected it then and do now. That's all bullspit.

So, your point is that the narrative is accurate? Then why is sloJoe saying that Ukraine may need to negotiate? As awful as this administration is, they know what is going on. If things are going well for your country in this war, no need to negotiate.

What if the assumption that Russia wants ALL of Ukraine is incorrect? Then your 20% means nothing. Again, you are focused on one thing and I'm pointing out something different.

Ffs by any reasonable measure ukraine is getting its ass kicked.

This fanboy crap wears me out

(06-06-2022 08:03 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  I don't trust any media reporting on the facts on the ground. Every outlet has their agenda even if it is not obvious.

You're fixated on a map. I'm just saying that since day 1 American media has told us we have to support Ukraine or we are a Putin puppet. I rejected it then and do now. That's all bullspit.

So, your point is that the narrative is accurate? Then why is sloJoe saying that Ukraine may need to negotiate? As awful as this administration is, they know what is going on. If things are going well for your country in this war, no need to negotiate.

What if the assumption that Russia wants ALL of Ukraine is incorrect? Then your 20% means nothing. Again, you are focused on one thing and I'm pointing out something different.

C'mon. How do think this was going to end? Nuclear powers dont surrender---certainly when they arent even invaded. This was always going to end in one of two ways.
Putin had the option of compromise and negotiation---but he wanted it entirely on his own terms. He couldnt get that at a negotiating table---but he believed he could get it on a battlefield.

Thus, the two outcomes were either

1) The Russian Army forces a Ukrainian surrender based on terms completely imposed entirely by Putin or--

2) Ukrainian forces fight well enough to convince the Russians the cost involved in getting what they want on the battlefield is not worth it---causing Putin to move to the negotiating table for a mutually agreed upon middle ground compromise that gets him some--but not all---of what he wants---and guarantees the Ukrainians future security.

Frankly, I think Putin was in a better negotiating position BEFORE he started the war than he is now. I think President Houseplant would have given away the store to avoid a war because NOBODY thought the Ukrainians had a chance in hell of holding off the Russians. If the Ukrainians begin having success in winning back real estate once their newly trained brigades and long range missile artillery hit the front--- I suspect Putin's negotiating position will only erode further from here.

(06-06-2022 08:39 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-06-2022 08:03 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  I don't trust any media reporting on the facts on the ground. Every outlet has their agenda even if it is not obvious.

You're fixated on a map. I'm just saying that since day 1 American media has told us we have to support Ukraine or we are a Putin puppet. I rejected it then and do now. That's all bullspit.

So, your point is that the narrative is accurate? Then why is sloJoe saying that Ukraine may need to negotiate? As awful as this administration is, they know what is going on. If things are going well for your country in this war, no need to negotiate.

What if the assumption that Russia wants ALL of Ukraine is incorrect? Then your 20% means nothing. Again, you are focused on one thing and I'm pointing out something different.

C'mon. How do think this was going to end? Nuclear powers dont surrender---certainly when they arent even invaded. This was always going to end in one of two ways.
Putin had the option of compromise and negotiation---but he wanted it entirely on his own terms. He couldnt get that at a negotiating table---but he believed he could get it on a battlefield.

Thus, the two outcomes were either

1) The Russian Army forces a Ukrainian surrender based on terms completely imposed entirely by Putin or--

2) Ukrainian forces fight well enough to convince the Russians the cost involved in getting what they want on the battlefield is not worth it---causing Putin to move to the negotiating table for a mutually agreed upon middle ground compromise that gets him some--but not all---of what he wants---and guarantees the Ukrainians future security.

Frankly, I think Putin was in a better negotiating position BEFORE he started the war than he is now. I think President Houseplant would have given away the store to avoid a war because NOBODY thought the Ukrainians had a chance in hell of holding off the Russians. If the Ukrainians begin having success in winning back real estate once their newly trained brigades and long range missile artillery hit the front--- I suspect Putin's negotiating position will only erode further from here.

I would guess that on March 20th, Russia had about 30% of Ukraine. They have been pushed back significantly in the north and south and had only small gains in the east since then.

I was reading yesterday that Russia was sending conscripts from the Donbass into the block by block streetfighting meat grinder in Severdonetsk. Seems Putin wants to fight to the last Ukrainian.

UN today saying it is investigating 142 cases of rape in Ukraine. So once again the claim there were no serious claims is more Russian propaganda.

(06-06-2022 08:11 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Ffs by any reasonable measure ukraine is getting its ass kicked.

This fanboy crap wears me out

It's not an outright ass kicking and Ukraine (thru massive assists from NATO) is punching above their weight. That said, many of their victories are Pyrrhic due the imbalances in resources to the respective parties involved. It's a war of attrition that will sooner or later result in Russia taking over. It's costing Russia a lot to do this though.

Question is whether the $40 billion +, or whatever we spend in the end, is worth bleeding Russia's war capabilities. IMHO, demographics and internal corruption alone was already rotting the country from the inside...

(06-07-2022 08:19 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-06-2022 08:11 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Ffs by any reasonable measure ukraine is getting its ass kicked.

This fanboy crap wears me out

It's not an outright ass kicking and Ukraine (thru massive assists from NATO) is punching above their weight. That said, many of their victories are Pyrrhic due the imbalances in resources to the respective parties involved. It's a war of attrition that will sooner or later result in Russia taking over. It's costing Russia a lot to do this though.

Question is whether the $40 billion +, or whatever we spend in the end, is worth bleeding Russia's war capabilities. IMHO, demographics and internal corruption alone was already rotting the country from the inside...

Same for the US. We’ll give up or go broke before Russia does. We shouldn’t have overthrown the government in Ukraine in the first place. The only ones benefiting are the select few who find a way to get rich off any situation. US taxpayers are the biggest dopes in the world.

(06-07-2022 08:23 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(06-07-2022 08:19 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-06-2022 08:11 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Ffs by any reasonable measure ukraine is getting its ass kicked.

This fanboy crap wears me out

It's not an outright ass kicking and Ukraine (thru massive assists from NATO) is punching above their weight. That said, many of their victories are Pyrrhic due the imbalances in resources to the respective parties involved. It's a war of attrition that will sooner or later result in Russia taking over. It's costing Russia a lot to do this though.

Question is whether the $40 billion +, or whatever we spend in the end, is worth bleeding Russia's war capabilities. IMHO, demographics and internal corruption alone was already rotting the country from the inside...

Same for the US. We’ll give up or go broke before Russia does. We shouldn’t have overthrown the government in Ukraine in the first place. The only ones benefiting are the select few who find a way to get rich off any situation. US taxpayers are the biggest dopes in the world.

I agree with you about this and any person who puts in 40 hours plus a week and votes for democrats has excepted their place in life as an underling to serve their Lords and Masters. Never expect upward mobility under a Democratic Party regime. EVER!