(01-18-2022 01:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:10 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:53 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  For pure spite! Of course Texas & Oklahoma could always play a non-conference game against each other, like UNC & Wake did this past season.

But how does it benefit the conference financially in the interim?

Yeah - while spite is a powerful force, the reality is that the Big 12 can (and should) be maximizing every dollar that they can out of Texas and Oklahoma while they still have them. That means that they should continue to be playing each other. ESPN and Fox certainly aren't going to be cool with nixing OU-UT for any season.

If I'm running the Big 12, I believe that it should be an East/West alignment:

EAST
UCF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

WEST
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Houston
Oklahoma State
BYU

One thing that I'd be wary of is any divisional alignment that places the Texas schools plus UCF in the same division (such as the North/South alignment proposed by Dodd). I certainly wouldn't want to have one division get the frequent visits to both Texas *and* Florida while the other one is relegated to a lot of dates in the slow growth (and recruiting challenged) Great Plains Midwest. Ultimately, I believe that there needs to be a balance between the divisions to make it work (e.g. one division gets Cincinnati and UCF in order to have Ohio/Florida recruiting access, while the other division gets the Texas schools). It's similar to the Pac-12 where it was so crucial for the Northern and Southern California schools to be in separate divisions instead of one single division.

This seems logical for the 12 team divisions. But it wouldn't work well for 14 as OU in the east would have to play Oklahoma St. and Texas every year cross-division. I guess if its just 3 years, that can be done, but its not preferable.

(01-18-2022 02:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:10 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:53 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  For pure spite! Of course Texas & Oklahoma could always play a non-conference game against each other, like UNC & Wake did this past season.

But how does it benefit the conference financially in the interim?

Yeah - while spite is a powerful force, the reality is that the Big 12 can (and should) be maximizing every dollar that they can out of Texas and Oklahoma while they still have them. That means that they should continue to be playing each other. ESPN and Fox certainly aren't going to be cool with nixing OU-UT for any season.

If I'm running the Big 12, I believe that it should be an East/West alignment:

EAST
UCF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

WEST
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Houston
Oklahoma State
BYU

One thing that I'd be wary of is any divisional alignment that places the Texas schools plus UCF in the same division (such as the North/South alignment proposed by Dodd). I certainly wouldn't want to have one division get the frequent visits to both Texas *and* Florida while the other one is relegated to a lot of dates in the slow growth (and recruiting challenged) Great Plains Midwest. Ultimately, I believe that there needs to be a balance between the divisions to make it work (e.g. one division gets Cincinnati and UCF in order to have Ohio/Florida recruiting access, while the other division gets the Texas schools). It's similar to the Pac-12 where it was so crucial for the Northern and Southern California schools to be in separate divisions instead of one single division.

This seems logical for the 12 team divisions. But it wouldn't work well for 14 as OU in the east would have to play Oklahoma St. and Texas every year cross-division. I guess if its just 3 years, that can be done, but its not preferable.

Realistically nothing going to happen for 22 so you'd be talking for just 2 years absolute maximum(and it'd be a major upset if it's 1 year most likely).

(01-18-2022 02:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 02:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:10 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:53 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  For pure spite! Of course Texas & Oklahoma could always play a non-conference game against each other, like UNC & Wake did this past season.

But how does it benefit the conference financially in the interim?

Yeah - while spite is a powerful force, the reality is that the Big 12 can (and should) be maximizing every dollar that they can out of Texas and Oklahoma while they still have them. That means that they should continue to be playing each other. ESPN and Fox certainly aren't going to be cool with nixing OU-UT for any season.

If I'm running the Big 12, I believe that it should be an East/West alignment:

EAST
UCF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

WEST
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Houston
Oklahoma State
BYU

One thing that I'd be wary of is any divisional alignment that places the Texas schools plus UCF in the same division (such as the North/South alignment proposed by Dodd). I certainly wouldn't want to have one division get the frequent visits to both Texas *and* Florida while the other one is relegated to a lot of dates in the slow growth (and recruiting challenged) Great Plains Midwest. Ultimately, I believe that there needs to be a balance between the divisions to make it work (e.g. one division gets Cincinnati and UCF in order to have Ohio/Florida recruiting access, while the other division gets the Texas schools). It's similar to the Pac-12 where it was so crucial for the Northern and Southern California schools to be in separate divisions instead of one single division.

This seems logical for the 12 team divisions. But it wouldn't work well for 14 as OU in the east would have to play Oklahoma St. and Texas every year cross-division. I guess if its just 3 years, that can be done, but its not preferable.

Realistically nothing going to happen for 22 so you'd be talking for just 2 years absolute maximum(and it'd be a major upset if it's 1 year most likely).

That's right. The TV contract expires 7-1-25, before the 2025 season. So it would just be 2023 and 2024 ( I was thinking it was after the 2025 season).

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

Sactowndog I think you have it correctly. The two Kansas schools and the two Oklahoma schools have been together since time began. Those four schools should stay together. Add BYU plus Tech and TCU the two most western Texas schools in the West Division. Also, the four Texas schools should be split equally in both divisions for recruiting purposes for the other schools.

West: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Tech and TCU.

East: West Virginia, Cincy, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Texas

After Oklahoma and Texas leave the divisions would remain the same.

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

Sactowndog I think you have it correctly. The two Kansas schools and the two Oklahoma schools have been together since time began. Those four schools should stay together. Add BYU and the two most western Texas schools should be in the West Division. Also, the four Texas schools should be split equally in both divisions for recruiting purposes for the other schools.

West: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Tech and TCU.

East: West Virginia, Cincy, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Texas

(01-18-2022 03:46 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

Sactowndog I think you have it correctly. The two Kansas schools and the two Oklahoma schools have been together since time began. Those four schools should stay together. Add BYU and the two most western Texas schools should be in the West Division. Also, the four Texas schools should be split equally in both divisions for recruiting purposes for the other schools.

West: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Tech and TCU.

East: West Virginia, Cincy, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Texas

I agree with these divisions. It's the most logical.

Some criteria -
If at all possible keep the old Big 8 together:
KU, KSU, ISU, OSU

For the next 3 years, OU and OSU would like to be in same division.

WVU and Cinci need to be in same division

TCU and BYU have a rivalry

So they could do a B12 East with
KU, KSU, ISU, OSU, WVU, CIN, OU*

B12 West with
BYU, TCU, TECH, BAY, HOUS, UCF, TEX*


B12 EAST travel-wise gives WVU and CIN a travel partner, keeps 5 of Big 8 together another 3 years, and puts OU in opposite division from Texas

B12 West preserves BYU/TCU rivalry and travel from UCF to HOUS, BAY is not bad

**As far as OU and Texas... I'm all for doing the opposite of what OU and TX want done as far as divisions

Since Texas and Florida are the most prized recruiting areas, and there would be 6 teams in these states while the Big 12 is at 14, it would make sense to have 3 Texas schools in one division, and 2 Texas schools plus UCF in the other. I would propose:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
West: BYU, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

An alternative for better competitive balance:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas

And a post-OUT alignment that would be fairly balanced:

East: Baylor/TCU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston/Texas Tech, Iowa State, West Virginia
West: BYU, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor, Texas Tech/Houston

The divisions by CBS are fine.

1. Split Texas and OU into 2 separate divisions
This guarantees the new members a home game vs Oklahoma or Texas in either 2023 or 2024. The home game revenue is important for building those brands up.

2. Split the new members evenly
Each division should have an equal split of traditional members and new members. If one division is loaded with new members, it won't feel like you joined the Big12. The new members vs traditional member matchups will be more interesting anyways.

As long as the new divisions follow those 2 rules, I am happy with whatever variation you come up with.

(01-18-2022 04:24 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

The divisions by CBS are fine.

1. Split Texas and OU into 2 separate divisions
This guarantees the new members a home game vs Oklahoma or Texas in either 2023 or 2024. The home game revenue is important for building those brands up.

2. Split the new members evenly
Each division should have an equal split of traditional members and new members. If one division is loaded with new members, it won't feel like you joined the Big12. The new members vs traditional member matchups will be more interesting anyways.

As long as the new divisions follow those 2 rules, I am happy with whatever variation you come up with.

I think your point #1 is why it's almost a lock that Oklahoma and Texas will be in the SEC on 7/1/23. Oklahoma and Texas are going to move heaven and earth to make sure that doesn't happen.

(01-18-2022 03:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 03:46 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

Sactowndog I think you have it correctly. The two Kansas schools and the two Oklahoma schools have been together since time began. Those four schools should stay together. Add BYU and the two most western Texas schools should be in the West Division. Also, the four Texas schools should be split equally in both divisions for recruiting purposes for the other schools.

West: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Tech and TCU.

East: West Virginia, Cincy, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Texas

I agree with these divisions. It's the most logical.

Nothing logical about Iowa St. separate from the Kansas schools.

(01-18-2022 04:03 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  Some criteria -
If at all possible keep the old Big 8 together:
KU, KSU, ISU, OSU

For the next 3 years, OU and OSU would like to be in same division.

WVU and Cinci need to be in same division

TCU and BYU have a rivalry

So they could do a B12 East with
KU, KSU, ISU, OSU, WVU, CIN, OU*

B12 West with
BYU, TCU, TECH, BAY, HOUS, UCF, TEX*


B12 EAST travel-wise gives WVU and CIN a travel partner, keeps 5 of Big 8 together another 3 years, and puts OU in opposite division from Texas

B12 West preserves BYU/TCU rivalry and travel from UCF to HOUS, BAY is not bad

**As far as OU and Texas... I'm all for doing the opposite of what OU and TX want done as far as divisions

I think there are several key rules:
ISU, KU, KSU together
WVU, Cincinnati together
UCF and BYU in separate divisions
UCF cannot be in the same division with all the Texas schools

That only leaves one option without splitting the 5 Texas schools:
ISU, KU, KSU, WVU, UC, UCF and OU or Oklahoma St.
TT, TCU, BU, UT, UH, BYU, and Oklahoma St. or OU.

If you split the Texas schools, the most logical is
ISU, KU, KSU, BYU, TT, TCU, OU or Oklahoma St.
WVU, UC, UCF, UH, BU, UT, Oklahoma St. or OU.

Tech is the closest school to BYU and TCU has some history with them. UCF doesn't "have" to be with UC and WVU, but from geography and their recruiting base, it makes the most sense.

(01-18-2022 03:46 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

Sactowndog I think you have it correctly. The two Kansas schools and the two Oklahoma schools have been together since time began. Those four schools should stay together. Add BYU and the two most western Texas schools should be in the West Division. Also, the four Texas schools should be split equally in both divisions for recruiting purposes for the other schools.

West: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Tech and TCU.

East: West Virginia, Cincy, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Texas

Actually, Oklahoma and OK State were in the Southwest Conference with Texas before Oklahoma joined the Big 6/7/8 and OK State ended up in the Missouri Valley. So no they weren’t together. They weren’t even together in the same division when the Big XII formed.

I know this is thread is for 2 7-team divisions and this idea doesn't work for that, but post OUT, if the Big 12 intends to remain at 9 conference games, rather than 2 6-team pods, I think the Big 12 (and the PAC-12 if they also remain at 9), should do 3 pods of 4 teams.

Southwest Pod: Baylor, Houston, TCU, Texas Tech
Eight Pod: Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas St., Oklahoma St.
East Pod: BYU, Cincinnati, UCF, WVU

Top 2 Pod winners play in the CCG game in Arlington. Everyone gets 3 trips to Texas in 2 years and should be able to balance Ohio/Florida recruiting and preserves rivalries.

If I had to do 2 7-team divisions however.

Horns: Cincinnati, Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St. Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., UCF

Down: Baylor, BYU, Houston, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech, WVU

OUT and Cincy-WVU are protected, maybe BYU-KSU or Kansas.

(01-18-2022 02:33 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:58 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 01:56 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  I’d be pissed if they put Texas and OU in the same division and we didn’t get to play them. The new members deserve a shot at the exiting teams. Splitting them guarantees the new members at least one game a year vs OU or Texas.

The new members should simply be thankful to join the Big 12. As a long-time Cincinnati fan, I know I am thankful. As such, I will not be greedy.

The Big 12 was on the brink of destruction. The new members saved the conference.

We deserve a guaranteed game vs Texas/OU each year of the temporary 14-team league. A Texas/OU home game produces a lot of revenue and each of the new members should have that opportunity. If you split them in the divisions it guarantees each of the new members at least 1 home game vs Texas or OU in 2023 or 2024. The revenue is more important to the new members. The home game is a potential cash cow, guaranteed sell out.

The conference needs to build for the future, we shouldn't be worried about the future of the Red River Rivalry. Why protect Texas and OU?

... It just sounds crazy to me that a Cincy fan would be in the same conference as Texas and OU and not want to play them. The window is only open for so long and you're cool with just letting it pass you by.

I did not post that I would not want Cincinnati to play OU and UT. Of course I would want that.

I simply noted (and perhaps poorly so) that I'm not going to be "pissed" or angry at the Big 12 leaders if that does not happen. Disappointed and displeased? Yes. But not pissed.

The most important thing is that UC is back in a nationally respected conference in general (I still miss the days of Big East membership) — and not that it play OU and UT before they leave (though, again, that would be desirable).

(01-18-2022 01:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Why go to divisions at all?

Just ask for a exemption until Tex and Ok leave. Have everybody play 9 out of 13 teams each year. The top 2 teams go to the CCG. This does not need to be hard.

This sort of goes into the category where we think that deciding between a 5+1+6 versus 6+6 playoff should be easy... but the reality is that it's super hard.

It's the same thing with divisional rule changes. We all think that it's "obvious" that leagues of all sizes should just be able to take the top 2 teams for a CCG and be done with it, but leagues have continue to push back on this (such as the Big Ten a few years ago when the ACC wanted the change).

FWIW, I personally think all leagues should be able to just take the top 2 teams to participate in their CCGs. It would certainly make all of the sense in the world if there's a 12-team playoff with the top 6 conference champs getting bids. However, for various reasons, it has never been that simple. Throw in the new 16-team SEC and you may suddenly even have more pushback on making it easier to relax CCG rules.

(01-18-2022 12:53 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

I think it will be something like this, the non-Texas schools are going to want annual exposure in Texas for recruiting purposes.

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:43 PM)solohawks Wrote:  They could be real jerks and put them in separate divisions and not let them play.

TV would have a cow and it would be incredibly petty but I guess they have the ability

Why would they do this???

For pure spite! Of course Texas & Oklahoma could always play a non-conference game against each other, like UNC & Wake did this past season.

It would shock me if this gets that petty. These schools still want to play Texas/Oklahoma after 2023, and pettiness like that could permanently break the relationship.

Oklahoma State, in perticular, has no desire to end their series with Oklahoma.

I’d probably do this from a recruiting standpoint:

Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, WVU, UCF in the North
BYU, Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Houston in the South

(01-18-2022 12:53 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:30 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Neat. I'm guessing they'll try and group teams by their eventual 12-team alignment and just stick Texas and Oklahoma into separate divisions.

Presumably like this then:

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia
West: Baylor, BYU, Houston, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech

Or the Kansas schools may want to stay west. It could be

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Houston, Baylor, Texas

West: Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State

These splits are always super messy.

I think it will be something like this, the non-Texas schools are going to want annual exposure in Texas for recruiting purposes.

UCF, Cincinnati, and WVU do not care about Texas exposure (for recruiting purposes or anything else).

Iowa State and the Kansas schools would benefit from Ohio and Florida exposure just as much as from Texas exposure.

(01-18-2022 12:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 12:43 PM)solohawks Wrote:  They could be real jerks and put them in separate divisions and not let them play.

TV would have a cow and it would be incredibly petty but I guess they have the ability

Why would they do this???

They won't. Only question is will the be in same or different divisions. Good arguments can be made for either.