ESPN tragically misunderstands the appeal of college football and the passion of its fans. They think they can create mega conferences and that viewers will flock to their product.

What’s the incentive to watch the mega conferences if you’re school isn’t in it?

One thing Nielsen ratings can’t measure is passion and let me give you an example. Ohio St is a blue blood that all media outlets would agree is an incredibly valuable property. In a state of almost 12 million people, they attract a little over 103K per game, or 0.876% of the state’s population. Meanwhile you have little WVU, who is among the schools ESPN just screwed over. The 55K in attendance looks like small potatoes compared to the mighty Buckeyes but when you factor in that the state has less than 2M people that’s 3.116% of the state showing up in Morgantown for game day.

(07-29-2021 06:21 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  What would an 18/19 team conference look like? I mean ridiculous, no?

19 teams is fugly… maybe you have a SWC in there though with:

SouthWest: TCU, Houston, Baylor, TTech, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, OSU, Navy?

North/East: WVU, Memphis, UC, ECU, KU, KSU, ISU, UCF, USF, Temple?

Fuggglyy… maybe split that into 3 or 4 divisions.

- TCU, Houston, Baylor, Texas Tech, SMU
- Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Iowa State
- Tulane, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina
- West Virginia, Navy, Temple, Cincinnati, (UConn would have fit in well if they didn't leave)

(07-29-2021 06:35 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  - TCU, Houston, Baylor, Texas Tech, SMU
- Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Iowa State
- Tulane, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina
- West Virginia, Navy, Temple, Cincinnati, (UConn would have fit in well if they didn't leave)

Ugly man, I guess you can add one to the North East section and rotate the four sections among two divisions.

Would Navy be better off going Indy? Can they boot Wichita State Olympics? Don’t see it working in any way shape or form. I think the Lil8 sits on their ass with BYU/Houston and UC perhaps coming down the road.

(07-29-2021 06:32 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ESPN tragically misunderstands the appeal of college football and the passion of its fans. They think they can create mega conferences and that viewers will flock to their product.

What’s the incentive to watch the mega conferences if you’re school isn’t in it?

One thing Nielsen ratings can’t measure is passion and let me give you an example. Ohio St is a blue blood that all media outlets would agree is an incredibly valuable property. In a state of almost 12 million people, they attract a little over 103K per game, or 0.876% of the state’s population. Meanwhile you have little WVU, who is among the schools ESPN just screwed over. The 55K in attendance looks like small potatoes compared to the mighty Buckeyes but when you factor in that the state has less than 2M people that’s 3.116% of the state showing up in Morgantown for game day.

Why didn’t you post this on 2011-12? It was all good in the neighborhood to people on this board when this was happening to UC, USF and UConn but now it’s a freaking tragedy and bad for the sport.

(07-29-2021 07:54 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 06:32 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ESPN tragically misunderstands the appeal of college football and the passion of its fans. They think they can create mega conferences and that viewers will flock to their product.

What’s the incentive to watch the mega conferences if you’re school isn’t in it?

One thing Nielsen ratings can’t measure is passion and let me give you an example. Ohio St is a blue blood that all media outlets would agree is an incredibly valuable property. In a state of almost 12 million people, they attract a little over 103K per game, or 0.876% of the state’s population. Meanwhile you have little WVU, who is among the schools ESPN just screwed over. The 55K in attendance looks like small potatoes compared to the mighty Buckeyes but when you factor in that the state has less than 2M people that’s 3.116% of the state showing up in Morgantown for game day.

Why didn’t you post this on 2011-12? It was all good in the neighborhood to people on this board when this was happening to UC, USF and UConn but now it’s a freaking tragedy and bad for the sport.

Simple......it becomes a freaking tragedy when it's your ox getting gored!

Did Bob also send a Cease and Desist to his own member institutions forbidding them from talking to the BIG and PAC12?

(07-28-2021 05:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:14 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Just read the letter signed by Bob Bowlsby. Bowlsby alleges ESPN has reached out to at least one other member in an effort to get them into another power conference. There are no signatures from any of the BXII schools.

This is an example of where the interests of "the conference" and the interests of its individual members diverge.

"The conference", including the administrative staff led by Bowlsby, has an interest in keeping the conference together, preventing further defections. That's how its bread is buttered. If the Big 12 dissolves, or is further reduced by defections, those that don't get invited to other conferences lose big time, and if the Big 12 itself dissolves, that would put the conference administrative apparatus out of their jobs.

But if I am a Little 8 school right now, I would very much like to be contacted by ESPN about moving to another P- conference, and I would very much like if ESPN contacted other P- conferences with inducements to get them to invite me to their conference.

Also: Is Bowlsby claiming the Big 12 has rights that it really doesn't have? The GOR expires in June 2025. It doesn't give the conference or any of its members any right to prevent members from leaving as of the expiration of the GOR.

AFAIK they don't even have any right to prevent members from exploring the possibility of leaving as long as they don't actually leave until the GOR is over. If I am in the middle of a lease on a house or some office space, and I start looking at other places and negotiating with them, I'm not violating my current lease as long as I keep paying the rent (and do whatever else the lease requires) until the end of that lease.

The Big12 has a separate agreement that ties all 10 members together for 99 years which was signed in 2012. That agreement requires any school contacted by another conference about membership to inform the other members within 12 hours.

Here is the problem—if a B12 team is hoping to jump to another P5—and that P5 talks to ESPN to get some sort of indication as to whether ESPN would pay more for the conference if that team is included—-is that actually colluding to harm the Big12? Seems like movement would be impossible if conferences have to make moves with no idea of how their media partner values the move. Conferences are not prisons (lol—though sometimes it can feel that way).

If they signed a contract to tie them together for 99 years, then they voluntarily walked into a prison and gave the keys to their 9 partners. The only way to get out is if everyone turns their keys simultaneously like when they launch a nuclear weapon on TV.

Also, if you sign a contract agreeing not to contact your media partner to see how they value the move, then you can't..... contact your media partner to see how they value the move.


It's perfectly legal for you to voluntarily sign a contract that binds you permanently to another party. If they really signed a 99-year contract, then that's what they did.

Think of it like a pre-1960 marriage contract (before no-fault divorce laws) and think of Texas like a billionaire who married a middle class girl. It's technically possible to get out, but it takes megabucks.

(07-28-2021 04:25 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  This is great. Grab the popcorn.

More fun than Big 12 football.

You dont even have to read the posts anymore, just look at which team the poster pulls for in his sig and you will already know the spin.

Its an awesome study in human nature.

Just read the letter. It demands ESPN cease and desist by noon CT today. ESPN still has a little over 3 hours to finalize the destruction of the Big 12.

(07-28-2021 07:00 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 06:55 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  There’s four US Senators from Kansas and West Virginia that can open a congressional investigation in what ESPN did behind the scenes. Add at least one Senator from Oklahoma and Iowa as well.

This is about to get political.

Haha what? No. This is all about legal positioning for the GOR negotiations.

Not to mention that the Senators from Kansas and West Virginia can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. Even if they go through the motions of sending letters etc. nothing is going to happen.

(07-29-2021 08:31 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 04:25 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  This is great. Grab the popcorn.

More fun than Big 12 football.

You dont even have to read the posts anymore, just look at which team the poster pulls for in his sig and you will already know the spin.

Its an awesome study in human nature.

As a neutral observer, the Big 12 posters have been the most level-headed across the board.

(07-29-2021 08:51 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:31 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 04:25 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  This is great. Grab the popcorn.

More fun than Big 12 football.

You dont even have to read the posts anymore, just look at which team the poster pulls for in his sig and you will already know the spin.

Its an awesome study in human nature.

As a neutral observer, the Big 12 posters have been the most level-headed across the board.

Yeah, hard to have a big head when the building your house is on fire, lol.



In all seriousness, I have an oddly calm feeling about this and can't really explain why.

(07-29-2021 08:51 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:31 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 04:25 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  This is great. Grab the popcorn.

More fun than Big 12 football.

You dont even have to read the posts anymore, just look at which team the poster pulls for in his sig and you will already know the spin.

Its an awesome study in human nature.

As a neutral observer, the Big 12 posters have been the most level-headed across the board.

On this theme, there is a Baylor fan who posts and who has done an outstanding job of being reasonable and classy. I can't recall that poster's signature.

ESPN is arrogant and aggressive, but are not stupid.

Bowlby's "I'll show them, I will write ESPN a stern letter showing my disapproval", doesn't have ESPN, the SEC, Oklahoma, and Texas, shaking in their boots.

ESPN would expect such a letter from the get-go. The sports media corporation has a team of lawyers that review every initiative that could have legal repercussions. Resistance is expected from certain quarters, and they prepare for it.

(07-29-2021 06:32 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ESPN tragically misunderstands the appeal of college football and the passion of its fans. They think they can create mega conferences and that viewers will flock to their product.

What’s the incentive to watch the mega conferences if you’re school isn’t in it?

Eh, ESPN has been involved with college football for a long time now, and it has basically thrived during that time. So IMO they understand something about its appeal.

Who are the apparent losers in what is happening right now? The L8. I am not sure that the fate of college football appeal depends on what happens to the L8, just like it didn't skip a beat when the Big East collapsed 10 years ago.

Would it be a shock to fans of Iowa State or Kansas State to find themselves on the outside of the power circle? Sure. But nobody ever argued that USF losing its AQ status, or Houston losing theirs in 1995, or Toledo never having it to begin with was harming CFB as a whole. Many schools have lived outside that circle their whole program lives, and CFB survived just fine.

It will in this case too, IMO, if that is what happens.

(07-29-2021 08:31 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:14 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Just read the letter signed by Bob Bowlsby. Bowlsby alleges ESPN has reached out to at least one other member in an effort to get them into another power conference. There are no signatures from any of the BXII schools.

This is an example of where the interests of "the conference" and the interests of its individual members diverge.

"The conference", including the administrative staff led by Bowlsby, has an interest in keeping the conference together, preventing further defections. That's how its bread is buttered. If the Big 12 dissolves, or is further reduced by defections, those that don't get invited to other conferences lose big time, and if the Big 12 itself dissolves, that would put the conference administrative apparatus out of their jobs.

But if I am a Little 8 school right now, I would very much like to be contacted by ESPN about moving to another P- conference, and I would very much like if ESPN contacted other P- conferences with inducements to get them to invite me to their conference.

Also: Is Bowlsby claiming the Big 12 has rights that it really doesn't have? The GOR expires in June 2025. It doesn't give the conference or any of its members any right to prevent members from leaving as of the expiration of the GOR.

AFAIK they don't even have any right to prevent members from exploring the possibility of leaving as long as they don't actually leave until the GOR is over. If I am in the middle of a lease on a house or some office space, and I start looking at other places and negotiating with them, I'm not violating my current lease as long as I keep paying the rent (and do whatever else the lease requires) until the end of that lease.

The Big12 has a separate agreement that ties all 10 members together for 99 years which was signed in 2012. That agreement requires any school contacted by another conference about membership to inform the other members within 12 hours.

Here is the problem—if a B12 team is hoping to jump to another P5—and that P5 talks to ESPN to get some sort of indication as to whether ESPN would pay more for the conference if that team is included—-is that actually colluding to harm the Big12? Seems like movement would be impossible if conferences have to make moves with no idea of how their media partner values the move. Conferences are not prisons (lol—though sometimes it can feel that way).

If they signed a contract to tie them together for 99 years, then they voluntarily walked into a prison and gave the keys to their 9 partners. The only way to get out is if everyone turns their keys simultaneously like when they launch a nuclear weapon on TV.

Also, if you sign a contract agreeing not to contact your media partner to see how they value the move, then you can't..... contact your media partner to see how they value the move.


It's perfectly legal for you to voluntarily sign a contract that binds you permanently to another party. If they really signed a 99-year contract, then that's what they did.

Think of it like a pre-1960 marriage contract (before no-fault divorce laws) and think of Texas like a billionaire who married a middle class girl. It's technically possible to get out, but it takes megabucks.

This is a case where the interests of "the conference" and the member schools diverge.

If I am an L8, I very much want to be sending out calls and missives to any other "P" conference inquiring (begging) about membership. I also very much would like to be contacted by another "P" conference about being invited. I also wouldn't mind if ESPN or FOX was working behind the scenes to try and find me another landing spot in a "P" conference - the AAC not so much, LOL.

But "the conference", which is just the collective of schools, has an interest in keeping me and everyone else bound. The conference administrative apparatus has a clear interest, because if the conference dissolves, their jobs dissolve with it. And any left-behinds who do not feel they have prospects in other "P" conferences want to keep the gang together too.

So it really boils down to the balance between those who think they can do better, and those desperate to keep the L8 intact as their best option. For example, in the AAC, there was a proposal to sign a GOR because it would mean a boost in media money. But the majority of the AAC sees themselves as upwardly mobile, and were not willing to tie their hands should a hoped-for P5 invite arrive, so no GOR was signed. In their case, the "individualists" outnumber the "collectivists". In the case of the L8, we just do not know right now.

Ongoing dynamic.

(07-29-2021 09:20 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  ESPN is arrogant and aggressive, but are not stupid.

Bowlby's "I'll show them, I will write ESPN a stern letter showing my disapproval", doesn't have ESPN, the SEC, Oklahoma, and Texas, shaking in their boots.

ESPN would expect such a letter from the get-go. The sports media corporation has a team of lawyers that review every initiative that could have legal repercussions. Resistance is expected from certain quarters, and they prepare for it.

At the end of the day, none of the remaining Big 12 schools likely have a P4 invite coming, so they will add 2-4 schools. Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, Boise State seem like the best four available.

(07-29-2021 08:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Just read the letter. It demands ESPN cease and desist by noon CT today. ESPN still has a little over 3 hours to finalize the destruction of the Big 12.

Is that the one not issued by a court?

(07-29-2021 09:50 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  At the end of the day, none of the remaining Big 12 schools likely have a P4 invite coming, so they will add 2-4 schools. Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, Boise State seem like the best four available.

Boise St will not get an add - too far for travel (not just miles but pain in the ass no direct flight travel)

Likely Cinci, Houston, BYU and UCF

Boise St only makes sense as a travel partner for BYU - and Colorado State gets you almost the same thing but with 200% better travel and a better school academically and endowment-wise