(07-24-2021 03:57 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Well, at least one guy has Rice in the Big 12...

https://twitter.com/kyleumlang/status/14...8961678339

The Minister of Facts at UT-Austin, no less. :-)

From the Cardboard -

Fwiw....

“With Texas and Oklahoma off to the SEC, there is speculation that the rest of the Big 12 could separate and join other conferences as well. However, don’t expect the Pac-12 to do a lot of poaching. Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff is not interested in recruiting any of the leftover teams in the Big 12, according to ESPN senior writer Heather Dinich. The Pac-12 takes a lot of pride in the academic reputation of its institutions, so the league will not just accept any Big 12 team that wants to jump ship at this point.”

“George Kliavkoff told me that they don’t plan to poach any schools from other leagues,” Dinich said Saturday on SportsCenter. “But they’d be foolish not to listen if schools call them. Again, it’s important to remember … the Pac-12 has a say in this and they will be very particular if those conversations happen about recruiting like-minded academic schools. They place a very high emphasis on that in the Pac-12, which could limit the discussions and really narrow the scope of any schools they might choose as candidates.”


https://247sports.com/Article/College-fo...168218439/

--------------

Academic reputation will help us. It matters to some conferences.

Similarly, there is talk about the Big 10 taking KU and ISU. It so happens, these plus UT comprise the only 3 AAU members in the current XII. AAU membership matters.

From csnbbs. Big 10 Conference Talk:


Buckeye Scoop had a show back in February that talked about expansion possibility and he interviewed an insider called NevadaBuck, who said that the B1G's expansion sub-committee held a meeting around that time and talked about what programs they were looking at:

- Mentioned that the main criterion for expansion would be new customers for this upcoming cycle

- Mentioned that they're looking at research institutions that are members of the Association of American Universities (no surprise there)

- Mentioned four possible candidates: Missouri, UNC, UVa and U. of Toronto (yes, that U. of Toronto - for some reason, they discussed how if that university can upgrade its sports that it would be a great addition, all considering)

- Mentioned about the desire to just go to 16, but the possibility of going to 20 was also discussed



This affirms the BIG interest in AAU members, even would consider U of Toronto. Does Toronto even play football.

We have some negatives, but we also have strong points and we should emphasize those.

(07-24-2021 03:57 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Well, at least one guy has Rice in the Big 12...

https://twitter.com/kyleumlang/status/14...8961678339

look at all the pretty pictures!

eta: this one shows us in the SEC, where we should have agreed to go back when Arkansas left the SWC...but we declined. doh!

link: https://twitter.com/OldRowSports/status/...1894263813

(07-24-2021 12:51 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-24-2021 09:52 AM)Ranger Wrote:  Possible earthquake in the making.
https://rubbingtherock.com/2021/07/24/cl...mpete-sec/
We need someone who is energetic, skilled at persuasion, and can think out of the box to represent Rice in what seems to be a coming earthquake in college athletics.

What we need is to have won more than 16 football games over the last 6 years.

Our timing with football has been uncanny. Every time there has been a major upheaval in conference alignments (since the SWC breakup), we seem to find a way to be terrible right before it (2-10, 4-8, and 4-8 in 2009-11, and 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3 in 2016-2020). And neither time did there ever appear to have been any urgency about our situation. We are killing (if we have not already killed) our brand.

tl;dr: this sux, but what did you expect?

Well, all this reminds me of is how we were constantly told by our idiot coach of over a decade how well we were doing and most here drank that Kool-Aid. The few of us who tried to say the "Emperor" had no clothes were vilified by many. The very reason we were so concerned about the idiot coach's piss-poor performance and excuses was those few of us who did not like him had this very time-frame in mind, and we knew we were already behind on the jump-start that the one-year wonder coach, a$$hole that he was, had breathed a life-saving shot of air into our last gasping football lungs. We should have doubled down and looked for another great football coach, like Boise did several times, instead of looking for a pu$$y like we ended up with for more than a decade, helping to destroy our program in the hallowed "Rice way" tradition the school has embraced for more than 60 years now.

In case some haven't noticed: sports, like business, like life is often a cut-throat competition. Sometimes you need the a$$holes like a Geo. Patton to lead you through the battles and get you where you need to go. You don't have to like them, but you do need to have them. Not only did we go in the opposite direction,with our own football coach version of Chamberlain, but many sang his praises while he sank us to where we are today. It sucks being right about this. Maybe Leebron and JK and the BOT can somehow pull a rabbit out of this barely together hat they've spent years putting holes in; Or more likely if we are to be saved, someone out there will see some value in us for how they can use us to their own ends and take us despite our ineptitude and arrogance with sports. Most likely right now is we watch the end of the parade go by and are left looking around the detritus trying to convince ourselves that sweeping $#it is worthy (the wonders of D-III).

Cue the press conference where our AD and or President touts how we are "above sandwich boards." But guess what? Ask two of our former basketball assistants (the Augustana ones) how hard they had to work to achieve success in the smaller divisions. They still had to work and commit to it. The only thing Rice has shown it will really commit to in sports for more than 60 years is suicide (Wayne Graham excepted, but he was my kind of Sumbich, and many did not like him in the end despite all he did to keep our school and its diploma relevant than it ever would have been without him.) Now, tell me how great it's gonna be playing Emory and Trinity. They'll kick our s$$es all over again. But I won't bore you by telling you how I really feel.

Then again, maybe it all really didn't matter...

just read an interesting take JRSEC posted in the SEC section that is worth a read: link: https://csnbbs.com/thread-924444-post-17...id17485346

In the thread, he argues, from a financial standpoint:

Quote: Small Privates will have to have extremely deep pockets and the desire for exposure. The better funded really could go Ivy or form another Ivy like association.

here again:

Quote:I expect to see some schools currently excluded, but the sole potential representative of their state, included. Duplicate schools, particularly privates, not.

But after re-reading his post again and taking note of what is happening at schools around the state right in front of us, what he posts does makes quite a bit of sense.

Now the thing is, Rice, as usual falls in between in so many areas. Geographically, of course, which has always been a big problem.
Rice is one of the few small privates that actually has enormously deep pockets, and if willing, could call its own shots if it wanted to. Issue has been it has specifically not wanted to, and thus is the biggest reason it fails. This attitude/decision was instilled by leadership in mid-late 60s and grew into a cult-like part of the school's identity, festering to the present day.

Of course, it did not have to be so, but seemingly each time Rice was presented with a golden opportunity to turn it around, Rice refused, sometimes adamantly, to the detriment of its brand and its diploma value, especially when it came to networking in the post-college world. Then it became a somewhat self-fulfilling track, as it was further and further isolated from the mainstream, and while still recognized by some for some academic prowess, most, if they even knew what region of the country the school was actually located in, let alone the state or city, had the overall perception that it was, at best and odd-little school producing odd graduates that were sometimes useful props, but more often hard to fit into an organization's culture.

From JRs post, it could be gleaned that even now, in the depths of athletic despair, should Rice embrace the financial realities of why realignment is taking place, in the context that JR frames, then Rice could yet again have and finally decide to take a golden opportunity to right itself and atone for the severe brand damage it has self-inflicted for decades by rejoining the living top-tier institutions and finally participate. It would of course take vision to either position itself with the one and most important overriding asset that JR argues, and most would have to admit does, drive all this: money. Money, it turns out is something Rice has most of, and far more than many of the schools better positioned athletically. So the same scenario presents as when Rice was allegedly asked to leave the SWC and invest in its athletics programs to join the haves.

Too, Rice could, if it was able to negotiate on these levels, find a way to finally pry the other major privates that might have lesser overall resources away from the 24 or 32 odd schools that would form the new semi-pro college league and form the fabled Southern Magnolia league that would after all be its best and most appropriate fit. Light years ahead of any drop to D-III where Rice would find life difficult and no excuses left for its continued sinking down into mediocrity with that bunch...an embarrassment that would devalue the degree to an extent not worth contemplating.

Anyway...yes, we have screwed up royally, time and time again, when it comes to athletics. But if JR is right, it could still not matter enough to stop us from finally succeeding if we but for once take the bull by the horns and play our strongest trump card to its fullest: the money the University has to secure its future in both academia and culture by joining with the top tiers left standing rather than continuing to sink to the bottom like a stone, as per usual.

Either way, it WOULD have certainly helped if Rice had done better, fare better in its athletics. The only thing Rice really has needed, and has lacked in spades, was commitment. Here's one more chance to grab at the brass ring. What will we do? Bury the "Rice way" once and for all, I hope.

Some word that some Texas state legislators are trying to get bills together to have a say in whether Texas can leave for SEC and if they have to take anybody with them...of course doesn't seem likely any of this could pass because 1) the Texas dems ran away to DC to prevent a quorum (for other other reasons) and 2) the legislature is in a special session for the next 18 months and can only take up legislation proposed by the governor.

And Texas governor Abbott has a UT BBA 1981, grew up in Texas and graduated from Duncanville HS in 1976.

The backroom dealings of Ken Starr, Texas Legislators lobbying for their alma-matters, etc. was and is never Rice's strong suit. Doing something there is not going to happen.

So Rice has/is tried/trying to get better in the top 2 sports and package that with its other unique advantages into a better lot in life...ala TCU in the 90's. If we were in 1995, a good strategy. For 2021, too late. That ship sailed. New strategy is needed. Macro dynamics have changed over past 30-years faster than Rice's micro actions. SWC nostalgia is now only remembered by for those eligible for AARP membership.

As has been discussed ad nauseam on countless threads, this is a frog in a boiling pot of water and Texas/OU just turned up the heat a little hotter.

The decisions now in front of Rice are becoming more limited. I see only three options. A) Either step-up w/ an enormous financial commitment to buy your way (or delay getting paid) to have a seat at the relevance table, B) start competing in something less than D-1, or C) Keep doing what you are doing.

For A) What 'buy' means can be debated (e.g., fund independent, subsidize other conference members, purchase membership, etc.). I would be willing to guess that many well-heeled Rice alumni presented with a plan to do this would help fund it on a matching basis w/ the University.

For B), a sad outcome but perhaps the $ getting repurposed to other academic purposes can actually make Rice more academically relevant than it is today.

For C), The current 1995 TCU plan is a path to the Sunbelt. Best case, it gets a backdoor invite to the AAC. But in either case there is no path to relevance on the big stage that Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Wake, Northwestern, etc. have as Texas/OU have accelerated the day that most saw of the 'super-conferences' coming. Rice is left w/ funding $10M loss/year Athletic program that has no relevance, rivals, or passion.

But point here is that Rice can either control what it can control or let the macro winds control the situation for it. And those speed of those winds picked-up this week and are blowing the program even further into irrelevance w/out some micro-actions to do something different.

Wish I was not a Debbie Downer but A and B are too bold/risky for Rice. Nobody wants to be the Grim Reaper and be tagged w/ B. For A, Rice does not have the bold leadership to drive that with a lame duck President and an AD who is competent but is an incrementalist and not a change-agent type of leader. He is the guy you want implementing the plan, but not the guy who will take any risk to lead/drive the plan.

(07-25-2021 06:13 AM)owl40 Wrote:  The backroom dealings of Ken Starr, Texas Legislators lobbying for their alma-matters, etc. was and is never Rice's strong suit. Doing something there is not going to happen.

So Rice has/is tried/trying to get better in the top 2 sports and package that with its other unique advantages into a better lot in life...ala TCU in the 90's. If we were in 1995, a good strategy. For 2021, too late. That ship sailed. New strategy is needed. Macro dynamics have changed over past 30-years faster than Rice's micro actions. SWC nostalgia is now only remembered by for those eligible for AARP membership.

As has been discussed ad nauseam on countless threads, this is a frog in a boiling pot of water and Texas/OU just turned up the heat a little hotter.

The decisions now in front of Rice are becoming more limited. I see only three options. A) Either step-up w/ an enormous financial commitment to buy your way (or delay getting paid) to have a seat at the relevance table, B) start competing in something less than D-1, or C) Keep doing what you are doing.

For A) What 'buy' means can be debated (e.g., fund independent, subsidize other conference members, purchase membership, etc.). I would be willing to guess that many well-heeled Rice alumni presented with a plan to do this would help fund it on a matching basis w/ the University.

For B), a sad outcome but perhaps the $ getting repurposed to other academic purposes can actually make Rice more academically relevant than it is today.

For C), The current 1995 TCU plan is a path to the Sunbelt. Best case, it gets a backdoor invite to the AAC. But in either case there is no path to relevance on the big stage that Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Wake, Northwestern, etc. have as Texas/OU have accelerated the day that most saw of the 'super-conferences' coming. Rice is left w/ funding $10M loss/year Athletic program that has no relevance, rivals, or passion.

But point here is that Rice can either control what it can control or let the macro winds control the situation for it. And those speed of those winds picked-up this week and are blowing the program even further into irrelevance w/out some micro-actions to do something different.

Wish I was not a Debbie Downer but A and B are too bold/risky for Rice. Nobody wants to be the Grim Reaper and be tagged w/ B. For A, Rice does not have the bold leadership to drive that with a lame duck President and an AD who is competent but is an incrementalist and not a change-agent type of leader. He is the guy you want implementing the plan, but not the guy who will take any risk to lead/drive the plan.

At the end of the day, the last 50+ years with the exception of Wayne has been a lack of intestinal fortitude. Not enough guts to do something real (Case 1 is declining the invite to the SEC-this is along the lines of Boston trading Babe Ruth, the Cubs trading Lou Brock and the Texans trading Hopkins in sheer stupidity) nor just to shut it all down. Death by neglect is still death, just provides plausible deniability.

I keep hearing this $10mm funding. if this includes the costs of scholarships, that is just accounting funny money and sorry that's crap. If that is dollars spent over dollars collected, then ok.

Quote:perhaps the $ getting repurposed to other academic purposes can actually make Rice more academically relevant

Quote:At the end of the day, the last 50+ years with the exception of Wayne has been a lack of intestinal fortitude.

I think the lack of fortitude has extended beyond athletics.

If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:

1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school, and integrate it into cooperative research with the Jones School and the Baker Center

Nothing else will really move the needle.

In typical Rice, take the easy way out, fashion, it attempted to get a med school by buying Baylor Med. When that fell through, it simply abandoned the effort.

"Losing is okay as long as you have a good enough excuse," and, "If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there," seem to be the twin mantras of more than just athletics at Rice.

(07-25-2021 07:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:
1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school

Nothing else will really move the needle.

In typical Rice, take the easy way out, fashion, it attempted to get a med school by buying Baylor Med. When that fell through, it simply abandoned the effort.

"Losing is okay as long as you have a good enough excuse," and, "If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there," seem to be the twin mantras of more than just athletics at Rice.

You forgot "build facilities using OPM that really are not needed".

(07-25-2021 07:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

Quote:perhaps the $ getting repurposed to other academic purposes can actually make Rice more academically relevant

Quote:At the end of the day, the last 50+ years with the exception of Wayne has been a lack of intestinal fortitude.

I think the lack of fortitude has extended beyond athletics.

If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:

1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school, and integrate it into cooperative research with the Jones School and the Baker Center

Nothing else will really move the needle.

In typical Rice, take the easy way out, fashion, it attempted to get a med school by buying Baylor Med. When that fell through, it simply abandoned the effort.

"Losing is okay as long as you have a good enough excuse," and, "If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there," seem to be the twin mantras of more than just athletics at Rice.

OK, for the second time ever, I disagree with Owl69.

If I am correct, Princeton, MIT and Caltech are academically relevant and yet neither has a law school or a medical school.

As a former lawyer, I can say that there are already too many law schools. As far as medical school is concerned, you better get it right because you are basically betting the endowment; medical schools are extremely expensive.

(07-25-2021 07:59 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(07-25-2021 07:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

Quote:perhaps the $ getting repurposed to other academic purposes can actually make Rice more academically relevant

Quote:At the end of the day, the last 50+ years with the exception of Wayne has been a lack of intestinal fortitude.

I think the lack of fortitude has extended beyond athletics.

If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:

1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school, and integrate it into cooperative research with the Jones School and the Baker Center

Nothing else will really move the needle.

In typical Rice, take the easy way out, fashion, it attempted to get a med school by buying Baylor Med. When that fell through, it simply abandoned the effort.

"Losing is okay as long as you have a good enough excuse," and, "If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there," seem to be the twin mantras of more than just athletics at Rice.

OK, for the second time ever, I disagree with Owl69.

If I am correct, Princeton, MIT and Caltech are academically relevant and yet neither has a law school or a medical school.

As a former lawyer, I can say that there are already too many law schools. As far as medical school is concerned, you better get it right because you are basically betting the endowment; medical schools are extremely expensive.

I agree that a law school would be risky because there are too many lawyers right now(please, no lawyer jokes) and second-tier law schools have been dropping enrollment the last several years as the market sees it is no path to glory and riches.

Med school seems very different to me. I would argue that Houston has the biggest and best concentration of medical brains in the world right now; couldn't we peel off enough to become a part of that? It is like a new tech start-up in Silicon Valley; there is tremendous depth in the labor/skill market. And couldn't we be known for areas where medicine is going, and be a leader?

(07-25-2021 08:19 AM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  

(07-25-2021 07:59 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(07-25-2021 07:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

Quote:perhaps the $ getting repurposed to other academic purposes can actually make Rice more academically relevant

Quote:At the end of the day, the last 50+ years with the exception of Wayne has been a lack of intestinal fortitude.

I think the lack of fortitude has extended beyond athletics.

If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:

1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school, and integrate it into cooperative research with the Jones School and the Baker Center

Nothing else will really move the needle.

In typical Rice, take the easy way out, fashion, it attempted to get a med school by buying Baylor Med. When that fell through, it simply abandoned the effort.

"Losing is okay as long as you have a good enough excuse," and, "If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there," seem to be the twin mantras of more than just athletics at Rice.

OK, for the second time ever, I disagree with Owl69.

If I am correct, Princeton, MIT and Caltech are academically relevant and yet neither has a law school or a medical school.

As a former lawyer, I can say that there are already too many law schools. As far as medical school is concerned, you better get it right because you are basically betting the endowment; medical schools are extremely expensive.

I agree that a law school would be risky because there are too many lawyers right now(please, no lawyer jokes) and second-tier law schools have been dropping enrollment the last several years as the market sees it is no path to glory and riches.

Med school seems very different to me. I would argue that Houston has the biggest and best concentration of medical brains in the world right now; couldn't we peel off enough to become a part of that? It is like a new tech start-up in Silicon Valley; there is tremendous depth in the labor/skill market. And couldn't we be known for areas where medicine is going, and be a leader?

Both excellent points, big. But a medical school is a huge risk. It has to be done right. My sense (from 15 years reading this board) is that the majority of posters believe the administration is too incompetent to boil water or make an ice cube. So we should trust it to bet the endowment.

(07-25-2021 07:59 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(01-19-1970 03:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:
1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school, and integrate it into cooperative research with the Jones School and the Baker Center.

OK, for the second time ever, I disagree with Owl69.
If I am correct, Princeton, MIT and Caltech are academically relevant and yet neither has a law school or a medical school.

True. But those are outliers with unique situations.

Every other school ranked ahead of us (or around us) in the USN&WR rankings has both. And my point addresses what Rice needs to do to move up, not what others have done. We are not Princeton or MIT or CalTech. We're Rice, and right now we are arguably top tier, but back in the pack of top tiers.

Ironically, the trick to building reputation is lots of research dollars, and med schools tend to attract them. Some years back, I took stats for Baylor Med and added them to stats for Rice and ran them through various ratings methodologies, as nearly as I could reverse engineer them, and Baylor Med jumped Rice up about 6-8 places in all of them.

(07-25-2021 10:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-25-2021 07:59 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(01-19-1970 03:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If Rice wants to become "more academically relevant," it needs to do two things, in order of importance:
1) Get a med school
2) Get a law school, and integrate it into cooperative research with the Jones School and the Baker Center.

OK, for the second time ever, I disagree with Owl69.
If I am correct, Princeton, MIT and Caltech are academically relevant and yet neither has a law school or a medical school.

True. But those are outliers with unique situations.

Every other school ranked ahead of us (or around us) in the USN&WR rankings has both.

I am fairly certain that Dartmouth has no law school.

Unsurprisingly, rumors abound.

One report says that the BIG and PAC have previously considered a merger or quasi-merger. At least one source opines that this might be back on the table; another source suggests that 4-6 PAC schools will join the BIG and the rest will join the leftovers of the XII.

One thing that concerns me is that NIL and the re-alignment will put a premium on P5 membership in all sports, making it harder to get top recruits in at least the BIG 3 sports, making it much harder to return to the glory days of baseball.

A little history for those posters and lurkers who might not know:

C-USA History Lesson




And, an example of life in D-III: SAA




Here's where we're more likely to end up:
DIII-SCAC



that's
St. Thomas
Texas Lutheran
Schreiner (WTH is that?)
Southwestern
Trinity
Centenary
U of Dallas
Austin College
Colorado College
Rice*

or, perhaps we can beg our way into here:
DIII-ASC



that's
Howard Payne
Ozars
McMurray
UT Dallas
Concordia
Belhaven
Hardin-Simmons
Sul Ross State
LeTourneau
East Texas Baptist
Mary Hardin-Baylor
Rice*

So, we go from once having been associated with these (Former SWC) schools:
Arkansas (1915–1991)
Baylor (1915–1996)
Houston (1972–1996)
Oklahoma (1915–1919)
Oklahoma A&M (1915–1925)
Phillips (1920)
Rice (1915–1917 provisional, 1918–1996)
SMU (1918–1996)
Southwestern (1915–1916)
Texas (1915–1996)
Texas A&M (1915–1996)
TCU (1923–1996)
Texas Tech (1956–1996)

to the wonders of a school called Schreiner.




Oh, also came across the obscure fact that VCU was at one time a member of the old Metro Conference...which one day would merge with the Great Midwest Conference to form...C-USA.

Yupper...take a good look at those schools and ask yourself: "When you applied to Rice, which grouping of schools did you expect your degree to be associated with afterwards?" I sure never would have applied to Rice if I had known that we'd one day work our way down to become associated with some school called Schreiner. Is that the folks who make the beer? Nope, that'd be Shiner, which would at least be more palatable.

If Tulane, SMU, Tulsa don't play ball, then it'll be DIII.

Not my preferred outcome, but can't imagine it will be worse for the Rice brand than CUSA. MIT, U of Chicago, Emory seem to muddle through.