(04-15-2021 09:31 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 06:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Do you have a link to the raw data?

I tried looking at SMW and they didn't seem to have a full list of games, at least as far as I could determine although who would actually watch noon game of JMU at NC State on the labor day weekend is beyond me.

I also noticed that access to SMW prior years' data was not available (could only retrieve 2020 season). Fortunately, I had created my own file for prior years.

Don't know how to do a link, but below is NC State's raw data. The ACC's media rights games at Carter-Finley Stadium are marked with *** (9 games). The JMU game obviously hurts the per game tally, but any televised game is better than no TV (an estimated 241k viewers for the game).


Season Week Viewers (M) Team A (away) Team B (home) Rev Source
2020 Bowl 2.710 UK NCSt TV Neutral
2020 W10 1.870 Mia NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W11 2.710 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W7 0.714 Syr NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 Bowl 5.140 TAM NCSt TV Neutral
2018 W11 0.744 Wake NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W10 1.347 FSU NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W1 0.241 JMU NCSt Conf v OOC ***
2017 W13 0.271 UNC NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W10 2.831 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W6 1.549 Lou NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2020 W8 1.000 NCSt UNC Conf @ Home
2019 W13 0.558 NCSt GT Conf @ Home
2019 W10 0.890 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2019 W3 0.606 NCSt WVU Conf v OOC
2018 W9 0.680 NCSt Syr Conf @ Home
2018 W8 1.806 NCSt Clem Conf @ Home
2017 Bowl 2.205 NCSt ASU TV Neutral
2017 W12 0.412 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2017 W11 1.702 NCSt BC Conf @ Home
2017 W9 2.625 NCSt ND OOC
2017 W4 2.060 NCSt FSU Conf @ Home
2017 W1 1.558 NCSt SC TV Neutral

I hope you are a retired guy. You are getting a lot of requests. Somebody might need to put you on their payroll.

(04-15-2021 10:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Can you do the other P5's?

Yes. I'll put the other P5 data in a posting in the P5 board. Unfortunately, the P5 viewership data just supports the obvious:
1) BIG and SEC viewership data are better than the rest (also, Rutgers is really deadweight in terms of the conference media rights...they're likely being leveraged via the BTN)
2) B12 makes media $$ via exposure/frequency (their schools understand their niche)
3) ACC and PAC are struggling relative to other P5

(04-15-2021 10:31 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  This is very interesting. Do you have ND’s number?

Not sure what number you are seeking for ND.

High level, for ND TV viewership data from last 4 seasons...
Total rated televised: 50 games; 221.4M viewers; 4.4M viewers per game
TV rights belonging to ND (NBC?) only: 27 games; 80.3M viewers; 3.0M viewers per game

Their participation in the ACC last season was helpful to viewership, especially the mid-season game against Clemson. NBC should be happy with the pandemic work-around.

(04-15-2021 12:00 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 10:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Can you do the other P5's?

Yes. I'll put the other P5 data in a posting in the P5 board. Unfortunately, the P5 viewership data just supports the obvious:
1) BIG and SEC viewership data are better than the rest (also, Rutgers is really deadweight in terms of the conference media rights...they're likely being leveraged via the BTN)
2) B12 makes media $$ via exposure/frequency (their schools understand their niche)
3) ACC and PAC are struggling relative to other P5

Thank you Wahoowa!! I was going to ask for the Pac-12:s numbers, but when I saw you did this yourself, I was very hesitant to do so because I didn't know if you had the time to do it or not.

(04-15-2021 12:00 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 10:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Can you do the other P5's?

Yes. I'll put the other P5 data in a posting in the P5 board. Unfortunately, the P5 viewership data just supports the obvious:
1) BIG and SEC viewership data are better than the rest (also, Rutgers is really deadweight in terms of the conference media rights...they're likely being leveraged via the BTN)
2) B12 makes media $$ via exposure/frequency (their schools understand their niche)
3) ACC and PAC are struggling relative to other P5

Great info. Thanks.

By your numbers, do you think the ACC's income should be 50% to that of the B1G? Similar question regarding the ACC overall....do their numbers justify the lowest conference payout (although this is JUST football numbers....bball should have some impact...maybe 20% to football 80%)

(04-15-2021 01:22 PM)nole Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 12:00 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 10:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Can you do the other P5's?

Yes. I'll put the other P5 data in a posting in the P5 board. Unfortunately, the P5 viewership data just supports the obvious:
1) BIG and SEC viewership data are better than the rest (also, Rutgers is really deadweight in terms of the conference media rights...they're likely being leveraged via the BTN)
2) B12 makes media $$ via exposure/frequency (their schools understand their niche)
3) ACC and PAC are struggling relative to other P5

Great info. Thanks.

By your numbers, do you think the ACC's income should be 50% to that of the B1G? Similar question regarding the ACC overall....do their numbers justify the lowest conference payout (although this is JUST football numbers....bball should have some impact...maybe 20% to football 80%)

This is only football data. In terms of comparing conferences, what is obvious is that ESPN is not promoting/showing many ACC games (other than Clemson). Seems like the focus must be on the ACCN, because the ACC has fewer games rated than any conference. This could be an ACC or ESPN decision.

It's hard to guess ESPN's thinking. Maybe ESPN may be reluctant to show ACC games because traditional powers are struggling (e.g., FSU, VT, Louisville). The per game average ratings for the ACC are better than the PAC and B12, but the ratings are skewed due to the low volume of games.

(04-15-2021 06:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 04:22 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  No real surprises beyond Syracuse and NC State being lower than expected. Really surprised to see NC State behind Wake in the rankings.

A 1 win,4 win and 5 win team for Cuse hurt them in that period.

I understand team performance affects the numbers, just surprised how much. Syracuse is one of the storied programs of college football.

Honestly it pisses me off that programs like Syracuse, Pitt and Georgia Tech don’t get they credit they deserve from the college football world.

Georgia Tech has twice as many national titles in college football as Georgia. Syracuse has won as many national titles as Arkansas and Kentucky and more than South Carolina, Mississippi State and Missouri.

If Pittsburgh were in the SEC they would be second only to Alabama in national titles.

For a sport that prides itself on tradition, football in The ACC sure is undersold.

Okay, so get rid of divisions then?

(04-15-2021 03:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Okay, so get rid of divisions then?

IMO

YES. If the ACC can get rid of divisions, then that should be the top priority.

Plan B, go regional to create interest. Switch VT-Syracuse and GT-BC. Somehow, the ACC needs to create bigger games and media attention.
Southern: FSU, GT, Clem, Lou, NCSt, Wake, VT
Eastern: Miami, Pitt, BC, Cuse, UNC, Duke, UVA
Atlanta/GT to Greenville/Clem could be the center of the southern wing. Bringing together the 3 northern schools (with Miami) could also create excitement. Point is to get rid of the country club zipper. There is a reason why the BIG got rid of the idiotic Leader & Legends and plopped B10-East around Ohio State and Michigan.

Possibly (long-shot) could then also convince the football schools to move to 9 games, with ND counting as an in-conference. Plead (dreaming) with ND to move to 6 games...if not, just rotate 4 games one year and 6 games the next. ND needs to schedule an equal number of games in each division if the ACC can expand the conference schedule.

I am confused as to how this is relevant since so many games are missing.

These numbers are somewhat cherrypicked without any real context. Not to be insulting but there is so much missing that the effort seems wasted.

(04-15-2021 09:31 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 06:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Do you have a link to the raw data?

I tried looking at SMW and they didn't seem to have a full list of games, at least as far as I could determine although who would actually watch noon game of JMU at NC State on the labor day weekend is beyond me.

I also noticed that access to SMW prior years' data was not available (could only retrieve 2020 season). Fortunately, I had created my own file for prior years.

Don't know how to do a link, but below is NC State's raw data. The ACC's media rights games at Carter-Finley Stadium are marked with *** (9 games). The JMU game obviously hurts the per game tally, but any televised game is better than no TV (an estimated 241k viewers for the game).


Season Week Viewers (M) Team A (away) Team B (home) Rev Source
2020 Bowl 2.710 UK NCSt TV Neutral
2020 W10 1.870 Mia NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W11 2.710 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W7 0.714 Syr NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 Bowl 5.140 TAM NCSt TV Neutral
2018 W11 0.744 Wake NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W10 1.347 FSU NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W1 0.241 JMU NCSt Conf v OOC ***
2017 W13 0.271 UNC NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W10 2.831 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W6 1.549 Lou NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2020 W8 1.000 NCSt UNC Conf @ Home
2019 W13 0.558 NCSt GT Conf @ Home
2019 W10 0.890 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2019 W3 0.606 NCSt WVU Conf v OOC
2018 W9 0.680 NCSt Syr Conf @ Home
2018 W8 1.806 NCSt Clem Conf @ Home
2017 Bowl 2.205 NCSt ASU TV Neutral
2017 W12 0.412 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2017 W11 1.702 NCSt BC Conf @ Home
2017 W9 2.625 NCSt ND OOC
2017 W4 2.060 NCSt FSU Conf @ Home
2017 W1 1.558 NCSt SC TV Neutral

You only list two regular season games in 2020 for NC State

WF was on ACCN
Duke was on RSN
UNC was on ESPN
Miami was on ESPN
FSU was on ACCN
Liberty was on ACCN
GT was on ACCN

What that means is NC State only had two chances in the regular season last year to even show up in your metrics.

Games are not played in a vacuum. NC State and UNC play the last week of the year except 2020. The game is relatively meaningless at that point and everyone's attention are on who can win the ACC title or make the Playoff.

Also whatever is on television as the competition has to matter. If State is playing JMU and Clemson is playing Georgia, I'm watching Clemson. If State is playing bodybag state U and the screen crawl shows UNC or ND losing - I am switching to that game.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/ This is a link to the raw data unless you have another link. Notice that no numbers are given for BTN and ESPNU. The ACCN is not even mentioned.

I just don't think that you can use this data set to conclude very much other than good opponents make for good tv ratings.

(04-15-2021 03:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 06:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 04:22 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  No real surprises beyond Syracuse and NC State being lower than expected. Really surprised to see NC State behind Wake in the rankings.

A 1 win,4 win and 5 win team for Cuse hurt them in that period.

I understand team performance affects the numbers, just surprised how much. Syracuse is one of the storied programs of college football.

Honestly it pisses me off that programs like Syracuse, Pitt and Georgia Tech don’t get they credit they deserve from the college football world.

Georgia Tech has twice as many national titles in college football as Georgia. Syracuse has won as many national titles as Arkansas and Kentucky and more than South Carolina, Mississippi State and Missouri.

If Pittsburgh were in the SEC they would be second only to Alabama in national titles.

For a sport that prides itself on tradition, football in The ACC sure is undersold.

It is extremely difficult to get into Georgia Tech. Not only that, but it's been awhile since GT has been good too. Put both of these factors together, and this is why GT has a smaller fanbase compared to UGa, despite the fact GT has twice as many nc's as UGa has.

In the state of New York, the NFL dominates the state. It's just the way the state is.

The city of Pittsburgh loves the Steelers, so they get top billing or people go for Penn State, which promoted itself as Pennsylvania's college team. Pitt is to the state of Pennsylvania what Georgia Tech is to the state of Georgia.

It's similar in Massachusetts, Illinois, and California. In Massachusetts, the Pats grab the headlines, while BC, UMass, and Harvard are happy to be mentioned.

Out in California, it's the Niners, the Rams, and the Raiders, even though the Raiders are in Las Vegas. The Golden Bears, the Cardinal, the Spartans, the Trojans, the Bulldogs, and the Bruins too, have a hard time pulling in fans, although it's a lot easier for the Trojans and the Bruins to do so, compared to the Bears, the Spartans, and the Cardinal.

(04-15-2021 03:09 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 06:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 04:22 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  No real surprises beyond Syracuse and NC State being lower than expected. Really surprised to see NC State behind Wake in the rankings.

A 1 win,4 win and 5 win team for Cuse hurt them in that period.

I understand team performance affects the numbers, just surprised how much. Syracuse is one of the storied programs of college football.

Honestly it pisses me off that programs like Syracuse, Pitt and Georgia Tech don’t get they credit they deserve from the college football world.

Georgia Tech has twice as many national titles in college football as Georgia. Syracuse has won as many national titles as Arkansas and Kentucky and more than South Carolina, Mississippi State and Missouri.

If Pittsburgh were in the SEC they would be second only to Alabama in national titles.

For a sport that prides itself on tradition, football in The ACC sure is undersold.

History is wonderful, but truly we live in a what have you done for me lately kind of world. A lot of it had to do with where the industrial centers were in the 30's through the 50's. Then came the California boom and the rise of the PAC. Now the manufacturing base is in no union states. There's much more to all of this than sports. Georgia Tech had a great history, but they languished after leaving the SEC until 1990 when they shared that title. But Ross was a great coach and events tumbled just right for the vote that year. Georgia doesn't own 85% of the state because of history. They own it because of Agriculture, Law, Medicine, and because those who are old now grew up with Vince Dooley while Tech was wandering in the wilderness. Pepper Rogers got them attention and Curry may be one of the finest non championship coaches out there. Until Tech has another great coach who can tap a recruit rich state with hope for a title things will stay as they are. Kirby is an upgrade from Richt but until he finds his Herschel Walker he won't win a title. Dooley rode that gold nugget right on through to retirement.

(04-15-2021 05:08 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 09:31 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 06:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Do you have a link to the raw data?

I tried looking at SMW and they didn't seem to have a full list of games, at least as far as I could determine although who would actually watch noon game of JMU at NC State on the labor day weekend is beyond me.

I also noticed that access to SMW prior years' data was not available (could only retrieve 2020 season). Fortunately, I had created my own file for prior years.

Don't know how to do a link, but below is NC State's raw data. The ACC's media rights games at Carter-Finley Stadium are marked with *** (9 games). The JMU game obviously hurts the per game tally, but any televised game is better than no TV (an estimated 241k viewers for the game).


Season Week Viewers (M) Team A (away) Team B (home) Rev Source
2020 Bowl 2.710 UK NCSt TV Neutral
2020 W10 1.870 Mia NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W11 2.710 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W7 0.714 Syr NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 Bowl 5.140 TAM NCSt TV Neutral
2018 W11 0.744 Wake NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W10 1.347 FSU NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W1 0.241 JMU NCSt Conf v OOC ***
2017 W13 0.271 UNC NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W10 2.831 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W6 1.549 Lou NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2020 W8 1.000 NCSt UNC Conf @ Home
2019 W13 0.558 NCSt GT Conf @ Home
2019 W10 0.890 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2019 W3 0.606 NCSt WVU Conf v OOC
2018 W9 0.680 NCSt Syr Conf @ Home
2018 W8 1.806 NCSt Clem Conf @ Home
2017 Bowl 2.205 NCSt ASU TV Neutral
2017 W12 0.412 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2017 W11 1.702 NCSt BC Conf @ Home
2017 W9 2.625 NCSt ND OOC
2017 W4 2.060 NCSt FSU Conf @ Home
2017 W1 1.558 NCSt SC TV Neutral

You only list two regular season games in 2020 for NC State

WF was on ACCN
Duke was on RSN
UNC was on ESPN
Miami was on ESPN
FSU was on ACCN
Liberty was on ACCN
GT was on ACCN

What that means is NC State only had two chances in the regular season last year to even show up in your metrics.

Games are not played in a vacuum. NC State and UNC play the last week of the year except 2020. The game is relatively meaningless at that point and everyone's attention are on who can win the ACC title or make the Playoff.

Also whatever is on television as the competition has to matter. If State is playing JMU and Clemson is playing Georgia, I'm watching Clemson. If State is playing bodybag state U and the screen crawl shows UNC or ND losing - I am switching to that game.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/ This is a link to the raw data unless you have another link. Notice that no numbers are given for BTN and ESPNU. The ACCN is not even mentioned.

I just don't think that you can use this data set to conclude very much other than good opponents make for good tv ratings.

The OP is an attempt to synthesize and communicate publicly available TV viewership data. Everyone is still free to stick their head in the sand about media rights without accepting known facts & data. No doubt there is additional (such as confidential) data that media companies and insiders have that would provide even greater insights. Channels currently providing viewership data include ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU/ENWS, Fox/FS1/FS2, CBS, and NBC/USA.

For the record, Virginia had zero rated TV games in 2020. The Hoos were stuck in the purgatory known as the ACCN and RSN...these two platforms are currently not communicating their viewership data. ESPNU and BTN viewership data are included in Sports Media Watch (use your own link above and scroll through the rated games). As a side note, BTN data is excluded from the “Conference games” and “Conference viewers” data because neither the SECN nor ACCN are reporting their data...an attempt at comparable data between the BIG, SEC and ACC.

(04-15-2021 07:54 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 05:08 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 09:31 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 06:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Do you have a link to the raw data?

I tried looking at SMW and they didn't seem to have a full list of games, at least as far as I could determine although who would actually watch noon game of JMU at NC State on the labor day weekend is beyond me.

I also noticed that access to SMW prior years' data was not available (could only retrieve 2020 season). Fortunately, I had created my own file for prior years.

Don't know how to do a link, but below is NC State's raw data. The ACC's media rights games at Carter-Finley Stadium are marked with *** (9 games). The JMU game obviously hurts the per game tally, but any televised game is better than no TV (an estimated 241k viewers for the game).


Season Week Viewers (M) Team A (away) Team B (home) Rev Source
2020 Bowl 2.710 UK NCSt TV Neutral
2020 W10 1.870 Mia NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W11 2.710 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2019 W7 0.714 Syr NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 Bowl 5.140 TAM NCSt TV Neutral
2018 W11 0.744 Wake NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W10 1.347 FSU NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2018 W1 0.241 JMU NCSt Conf v OOC ***
2017 W13 0.271 UNC NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W10 2.831 Clem NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2017 W6 1.549 Lou NCSt Conf @ Home ***
2020 W8 1.000 NCSt UNC Conf @ Home
2019 W13 0.558 NCSt GT Conf @ Home
2019 W10 0.890 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2019 W3 0.606 NCSt WVU Conf v OOC
2018 W9 0.680 NCSt Syr Conf @ Home
2018 W8 1.806 NCSt Clem Conf @ Home
2017 Bowl 2.205 NCSt ASU TV Neutral
2017 W12 0.412 NCSt Wake Conf @ Home
2017 W11 1.702 NCSt BC Conf @ Home
2017 W9 2.625 NCSt ND OOC
2017 W4 2.060 NCSt FSU Conf @ Home
2017 W1 1.558 NCSt SC TV Neutral

You only list two regular season games in 2020 for NC State

WF was on ACCN
Duke was on RSN
UNC was on ESPN
Miami was on ESPN
FSU was on ACCN
Liberty was on ACCN
GT was on ACCN

What that means is NC State only had two chances in the regular season last year to even show up in your metrics.

Games are not played in a vacuum. NC State and UNC play the last week of the year except 2020. The game is relatively meaningless at that point and everyone's attention are on who can win the ACC title or make the Playoff.

Also whatever is on television as the competition has to matter. If State is playing JMU and Clemson is playing Georgia, I'm watching Clemson. If State is playing bodybag state U and the screen crawl shows UNC or ND losing - I am switching to that game.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/ This is a link to the raw data unless you have another link. Notice that no numbers are given for BTN and ESPNU. The ACCN is not even mentioned.

I just don't think that you can use this data set to conclude very much other than good opponents make for good tv ratings.

The OP is an attempt to synthesize and communicate publicly available TV viewership data. Everyone is still free to stick their head in the sand about media rights without accepting known facts & data. No doubt there is additional (such as confidential) data that media companies and insiders have that would provide even greater insights. Channels currently providing viewership data include ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU/ENWS, Fox/FS1/FS2, CBS, and NBC/USA.

For the record, Virginia had zero rated TV games in 2020. The Hoos were stuck in the purgatory known as the ACCN and RSN...these two platforms are currently not communicating their viewership data. ESPNU and BTN viewership data are included in Sports Media Watch (use your own link above and scroll through the rated games). As a side note, BTN data is excluded from the “Conference games” and “Conference viewers” data because neither the SECN nor ACCN are reporting their data...an attempt at comparable data between the BIG, SEC and ACC.

It's not in the Network or Conference's interest to divulge viewership of subscription services if the advertising is based on the subscriptions. The subscriptions would always be higher than the actual viewers and therefore providing that data would permit the companies advertising and the agencies representing them to have a tool with which to mitigate the costs and therefore reduce the earnings. This is one reason that ad agencies are licking their chops over the prospect of streaming. They get what they pay for because the pay for whose watching.

Wahoo - did you notice this footnote in the 2020 "data" ^ Clemson-Notre Dame in primetime is compared to Virginia Tech-Notre Dame in the afternoon last year.
* Miami-NC State on ESPN is compared to Navy-UConn on ESPN2 last year.

Now, think about that for a moment. What in the world make those games comparable? I appreciate the effort, but the effect of plucking low hanging statistical fruit is that the fruit can be so low that it might just be a cow pie instead of fruit.

I'm not sure that pointing out that something is probably statistically invalid is the same a sticking one's head in the sand.

This is what you promised in your thesis:

I tallied Sports Media Watch football viewership data for the past 4 years (2017-2020). Ranking each power 5 school by four criteria:
1) # viewers (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
2) average # viewers per game (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
3) # of viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)
4) average # viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)

In order of ACC media value:

Clemson (#9 P5 rank; 31% of viewership of ACC teams; 16% of ACC's T1 & T2 media rights viewership)
Miami (#18; 12%; 11%)
FSU (#19; 9%; 10%)
VT (#29; 7%; 7%)
Louisville (#30; 6%; 8%)
UNC (#39; 5%; 7%)
Pitt (#41; 5%; 5%)
GT (#42; 4%; 6%)
BC (#43; 4%; 6%)
Syracuse (#46; 4%; 4%)
UVA (#54; 4%; 3%)
Wake (#55; 4%; 4%)
NC State (#56; 4%; 4%)
Duke (#62; 3%; 2%)
ACC CCG (#4 amongst 5 P5; N/A; 8%)

The P5 schools ranked ahead of Clemson in terms of viewership are: Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Notre Dame and Oklahoma.

The P5 schools ranked below Duke in terms of viewership are: Rutgers, Kansas and Oregon State.

Unfortunately, Tobacco Road is where football viewership struggles.

This last sentence is your conclusion.

You don't disclose that the data is mostly missing and that what you have are "some" data points discreetly picked out over the course of a year. That might lead someone to think your data actually meant more than it does.

For example lets take Duke playing Wake Forest.

If the game is played at 3:30 on RSN no one is going to watch since 6-10 better games are available. If the game is played at 7:30 on a Thursday night a built in audience, albeit small is set aside for that event. If the game is played on ABC at 8:00 PM on a Saturday night without a competing game of top 10 folks, suddenly Duke and WF look like media titans.

When you play matters perhaps as much as who you play with regard to ratings.

What's at stake also matters. If Duke and WF are playing for the ACC title someone might actually watch. If they are playing and both have a losing record you might not have 15K in attendance and just as many watching from home.

Actually your data points indicate that viewership seems to struggle when the two teams suck.

When you control for actual viewership you can see the correlation to good teams and good ratings.

2018 - Gator Bowl TAMU 5.14M - NC State ranked about 21, TAMU around 26
2017 - Clemson - 2.83M - NC State ranked about 20, Clemson 6
2020 - Gator Bowl Kentucky - 2.71 M NC State with 8 win season
2019 - Clemson - 2.71 - Clemson running toward national title
2017 - ND 2.65 M - NC State ranked 14, ND 9
2017- Sun Bowl Arizona State - 2.2 M 9-4 NC State team
2017 - Florida State - 2.06 M - FSU ranked 12th (the begin of their last slide)
2020 - Miami - 1.87 M - Miami ranked 11 and NC State ranked 26-27
2018 - Clemson 1.87 M - Clemson ranked 3 and NC State ranked 16
2017 - BC 1.71 - An ABC Game in an NC State 9-4 season
2017 - Louisville - 1,549 same as above

I could go on but importantly there is no game for NC State near the top in 2019. That because we had QB and other injuries out the wazoo and finished 4-8.

Ain't it funny how better ratings are found in seasons where 9, 9, and 8 games are won and the opponent is also a decent team.

In order to pass your oral exam you have to upgrade your statistics and include probably 7-8 more variables in order to establish the absolute value of a school to the ACC media package. If you only play on Raycom, you don't make a statistical impact. If you host Notre Dame, Florida, Georgia or another top program, your ratings are skewed upward. If you are in the top 25 or in the hunt for the ACC title game, again your ratings will be up. If you are scheduled to play at the same time an undefeated ND is playing an undefeated Georgia, or Stanford, you are going to be crushed in the ratings.

I think your statistical presentation indicates that when ACC teams stink they are not watched, but when two of them are decent, they get good ratings.

(04-15-2021 08:54 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Wahoo - did you notice this footnote in the 2020 "data" ^ Clemson-Notre Dame in primetime is compared to Virginia Tech-Notre Dame in the afternoon last year.
* Miami-NC State on ESPN is compared to Navy-UConn on ESPN2 last year.

Now, think about that for a moment. What in the world make those games comparable? I appreciate the effort, but the effect of plucking low hanging statistical fruit is that the fruit can be so low that it might just be a cow pie instead of fruit.

I'm not sure that pointing out that something is probably statistically invalid is the same a sticking one's head in the sand.

This is what you promised in your thesis:

I tallied Sports Media Watch football viewership data for the past 4 years (2017-2020). Ranking each power 5 school by four criteria:
1) # viewers (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
2) average # viewers per game (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
3) # of viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)
4) average # viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)

In order of ACC media value:

Clemson (#9 P5 rank; 31% of viewership of ACC teams; 16% of ACC's T1 & T2 media rights viewership)
Miami (#18; 12%; 11%)
FSU (#19; 9%; 10%)
VT (#29; 7%; 7%)
Louisville (#30; 6%; 8%)
UNC (#39; 5%; 7%)
Pitt (#41; 5%; 5%)
GT (#42; 4%; 6%)
BC (#43; 4%; 6%)
Syracuse (#46; 4%; 4%)
UVA (#54; 4%; 3%)
Wake (#55; 4%; 4%)
NC State (#56; 4%; 4%)
Duke (#62; 3%; 2%)
ACC CCG (#4 amongst 5 P5; N/A; 8%)

The P5 schools ranked ahead of Clemson in terms of viewership are: Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Notre Dame and Oklahoma.

The P5 schools ranked below Duke in terms of viewership are: Rutgers, Kansas and Oregon State.

Unfortunately, Tobacco Road is where football viewership struggles.

This last sentence is your conclusion.

You don't disclose that the data is mostly missing and that what you have are "some" data points discreetly picked out over the course of a year. That might lead someone to think your data actually meant more than it does.

For example lets take Duke playing Wake Forest.

If the game is played at 3:30 on RSN no one is going to watch since 6-10 better games are available. If the game is played at 7:30 on a Thursday night a built in audience, albeit small is set aside for that event. If the game is played on ABC at 8:00 PM on a Saturday night without a competing game of top 10 folks, suddenly Duke and WF look like media titans.

When you play matters perhaps as much as who you play with regard to ratings.

What's at stake also matters. If Duke and WF are playing for the ACC title someone might actually watch. If they are playing and both have a losing record you might not have 15K in attendance and just as many watching from home.

Actually your data points indicate that viewership seems to struggle when the two teams suck.

I think the data points you list also point to the need to make serious changes as to when some games are played. UNC and NC State playing on the last weekend of the year is stupid as is VT and UVa. These two games needs to happen in early October. Miami and FSU need to be playing the first or second week in November.

(04-15-2021 09:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(04-15-2021 08:54 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Wahoo - did you notice this footnote in the 2020 "data" ^ Clemson-Notre Dame in primetime is compared to Virginia Tech-Notre Dame in the afternoon last year.
* Miami-NC State on ESPN is compared to Navy-UConn on ESPN2 last year.

Now, think about that for a moment. What in the world make those games comparable? I appreciate the effort, but the effect of plucking low hanging statistical fruit is that the fruit can be so low that it might just be a cow pie instead of fruit.

I'm not sure that pointing out that something is probably statistically invalid is the same a sticking one's head in the sand.

This is what you promised in your thesis:

I tallied Sports Media Watch football viewership data for the past 4 years (2017-2020). Ranking each power 5 school by four criteria:
1) # viewers (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
2) average # viewers per game (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
3) # of viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)
4) average # viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)

In order of ACC media value:

Clemson (#9 P5 rank; 31% of viewership of ACC teams; 16% of ACC's T1 & T2 media rights viewership)
Miami (#18; 12%; 11%)
FSU (#19; 9%; 10%)
VT (#29; 7%; 7%)
Louisville (#30; 6%; 8%)
UNC (#39; 5%; 7%)
Pitt (#41; 5%; 5%)
GT (#42; 4%; 6%)
BC (#43; 4%; 6%)
Syracuse (#46; 4%; 4%)
UVA (#54; 4%; 3%)
Wake (#55; 4%; 4%)
NC State (#56; 4%; 4%)
Duke (#62; 3%; 2%)
ACC CCG (#4 amongst 5 P5; N/A; 8%)

The P5 schools ranked ahead of Clemson in terms of viewership are: Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Notre Dame and Oklahoma.

The P5 schools ranked below Duke in terms of viewership are: Rutgers, Kansas and Oregon State.

Unfortunately, Tobacco Road is where football viewership struggles.

This last sentence is your conclusion.

You don't disclose that the data is mostly missing and that what you have are "some" data points discreetly picked out over the course of a year. That might lead someone to think your data actually meant more than it does.

For example lets take Duke playing Wake Forest.

If the game is played at 3:30 on RSN no one is going to watch since 6-10 better games are available. If the game is played at 7:30 on a Thursday night a built in audience, albeit small is set aside for that event. If the game is played on ABC at 8:00 PM on a Saturday night without a competing game of top 10 folks, suddenly Duke and WF look like media titans.

When you play matters perhaps as much as who you play with regard to ratings.

What's at stake also matters. If Duke and WF are playing for the ACC title someone might actually watch. If they are playing and both have a losing record you might not have 15K in attendance and just as many watching from home.

Actually your data points indicate that viewership seems to struggle when the two teams suck.

That's true in every conference and the reason there isn't much getting around it is that most T1 contracts requires that each conference school make at least one appearance. Most times that means you get an Ohio State vs Northwester or Purdue game or an Alabama vs Vanderbilt game played at sometime when the network would have been up against a really mammoth game from another conference.

In this regard it's like baseball. You can overcome a bat batter. But when they are in the field, if they can't catch, the ball finds them. The issue remains that you need more than one or two ratings bell cows to command rates.