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ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-16-2021 04:44 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-15-2021 09:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  When you control for actual viewership you can see the correlation to good teams and good ratings.

2018 - Gator Bowl TAMU 5.14M - NC State ranked about 21, TAMU around 26
2017 - Clemson - 2.83M - NC State ranked about 20, Clemson 6
2020 - Gator Bowl Kentucky - 2.71 M NC State with 8 win season
2019 - Clemson - 2.71 - Clemson running toward national title
2017 - ND 2.65 M - NC State ranked 14, ND 9
2017- Sun Bowl Arizona State - 2.2 M 9-4 NC State team
2017 - Florida State - 2.06 M - FSU ranked 12th (the begin of their last slide)
2020 - Miami - 1.87 M - Miami ranked 11 and NC State ranked 26-27
2018 - Clemson 1.87 M - Clemson ranked 3 and NC State ranked 16
2017 - BC 1.71 - An ABC Game in an NC State 9-4 season
2017 - Louisville - 1,549 same as above

I could go on but importantly there is no game for NC State near the top in 2019. That because we had QB and other injuries out the wazoo and finished 4-8.

Ain't it funny how better ratings are found in seasons where 9, 9, and 8 games are won and the opponent is also a decent team.

In order to pass your oral exam you have to upgrade your statistics and include probably 7-8 more variables in order to establish the absolute value of a school to the ACC media package. If you only play on Raycom, you don't make a statistical impact. If you host Notre Dame, Florida, Georgia or another top program, your ratings are skewed upward. If you are in the top 25 or in the hunt for the ACC title game, again your ratings will be up. If you are scheduled to play at the same time an undefeated ND is playing an undefeated Georgia, or Stanford, you are going to be crushed in the ratings.

I think your statistical presentation indicates that when ACC teams stink they are not watched, but when two of them are decent, they get good ratings.


Winning does help, but the ACC also needs to strengthen the schedules of the bell cows. As a Virginia fan it pains me, but Tobacco Road (UVA, NC State, et al) is just horrible at attracting viewers.

NC State has had 3 good seasons recently. Mickey/ESPN televised 9 out of 26 games played at Carter-Finley Stadium with an average viewership of 1.4M per game. If you eliminate the two visits by Clemson, Carter-Finley games have averaged less than 1M viewers...NC State ratings are now comparable to games televised from Wallace Wade Stadium.

FSU has had a worse overall 4-year record than NC State, UNC, UVA, Wake or Duke (when has that ever occurred?). ESPN televised 15 out of 25 games played at Doak-Campbell Stadium with an average viewership of 2.1M per game. Games at Doak-Campbell are just worth more to ESPN because more fans watch FSU...even when they are not that good.

You continue to site your own incomplete statistics in order to create a conclusion. Your are asserting a trend that is dependent only in part due to the relative drawing power of one of the teams. You ignore when the games are scheduled. The records at the time of play. The competition for viewing at the same time. And one party's interest in the outcome as it relates to the opponent.

You use statistics like a man claiming to have measured the physical height of a dozen people without taking into account who is standing on the curb, who is standing on a box, or who is standing in a hole. 05-nono
04-16-2021 06:10 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
To make any model using these intermittent stats, you have to start with a constant against which things can be reliably measured. That means you have lo look at ND's ratings for the period. Then you need to look at the network. In 2017 ND has 12 data points. Noticeably their game on NBCSC against Miami of Ohio only drew 798K viewers. Their NBC games break down as:

Temple - 1.58M
WF - 1.903 M
NC State - 2.625 M
USC - 2.988 M
Navy - 3.203 M
Georgia - 4.08 M

That's an average of 2.967 M on NBC

How about ABC?

UNC - 2.505 M
Miami - 6.727 M
Stanford - 5.62 M

This is an average of nearly 5 million viewers on ABC. That must mean Carolina sucks right? Or does that mean that Carolina was in the middle of a 3-9 season?

On Fox?

Michigan State - 3.456 M

On ESPN?

BC - 1.845 M

Even with this data set, there has been nothing added to determine the level of competition on television and counter programing at the same time.

All you can see in the data set is that when ND has a better known opponent (meaning a better recent football vita, they tend to have higher rated games)


From over 6.7 M down to less than a million:

Miami (Catholics vs. Convicts - both ranked in top 10)
Stanford (Both ranked in top 20 - traditional game)
Georgia (New game against SEC team both ranked in to 25)
Michigan State (Traditional rival)
Navy (Traditional rival)
USC (Traditional rival)
NC State (both ranked in top 15)
UNC (1-4 UNC team)
WF (5-3 WF team)
BC (BC already lost to WF)
Temple
Miami of Ohio

Records matter. What channel the game is on matters. The opponent matters. The assertion that UNC, NC State, UVa, or VT are viewership pits can't be established by the data. However you can find a general nexus that seems to show that when they suck, no one watches. Tack on the fact that all four tend to play SoCon, Patrioit, or similar body bag games against in state schools for political reasons and that all four play some combination of Duke and WF who have very small football viewer bases and what do you really expect?
04-16-2021 07:09 PM
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Exclamation RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-16-2021 05:18 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Clemson and FSU need to play the Tobacco Road games earlier in the season when there isn't as much interest in football, like in September they haven't lost to someone else yet.

FIFY
04-16-2021 08:35 PM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-16-2021 08:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-16-2021 05:18 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Clemson and FSU need to play the Tobacco Road games earlier in the season when there isn't as much interest in football, like in September they haven't lost to someone else yet.

Football fans will go for just about any type of game in September, even snoozers like NC State-Clemson. The longer the football season goes on, fans become pickier about what games they watch/attend.

And, UNC-Duke hasn't done well on Thanksgiving either. UNC-NC State easily outdid that game. UNC-Duke does seem to do well on Halloween though. I'd leave it there.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2021 10:37 PM by DawgNBama.)
04-16-2021 09:34 PM
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Post: #65
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-16-2021 09:34 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-16-2021 08:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-16-2021 05:18 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Clemson and FSU need to play the Tobacco Road games earlier in the season when there isn't as much interest in football, like in September they haven't lost to someone else yet.

Football fans will go for just about any type of game in September, even snoozers like NC State-Clemson. The longer the football season goes on, fans become pickier about what games they watch/attend.

And, UNC-Duke hasn't done well on Thanksgiving either. UNC-NC State easily outdid that game. UNC-Duke does seem to do well on Halloween though. I'd leave it there.

You're from Alabama. I usually don't get into football until baseball season's over or unless there's a big game early. I guess if you are the Carolina schools you are correct. But the Alabama's, Georgia's, etc should IMO have the big games late when both teams are something like 8-0. Last year Clemson and Notre Dame played in November and the ratings were huge. Sure, they would have gotten big ratings if the game was in September but it wouldn't have been the same if both teams were 0-0 or 1-0. I guess when I'm from a pro sports town baseball matters. Most of SEC/ACC territory doesn't have baseball teams.
04-17-2021 05:31 AM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 05:31 AM)schmolik Wrote:  You're from Alabama. I usually don't get into football until baseball season's over or unless there's a big game early. I guess if you are the Carolina schools you are correct. But the Alabama's, Georgia's, etc should IMO have the big games late when both teams are something like 8-0. Last year Clemson and Notre Dame played in November and the ratings were huge. Sure, they would have gotten big ratings if the game was in September but it wouldn't have been the same if both teams were 0-0 or 1-0. I guess when I'm from a pro sports town baseball matters. Most of SEC/ACC territory doesn't have baseball teams.

College football is bigger here in Kentucky in September and October than November. UK fans have a tendency to stop following football in November once basketball starts more so than UofL fans.

Moving the UofL / Kentucky Governors Cup game to the last week of the season has helped increase interest in college football in November. Unfortunately weather in Kentucky is so hit and miss that attendance usually takes a hit.
04-17-2021 06:38 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 06:38 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 05:31 AM)schmolik Wrote:  You're from Alabama. I usually don't get into football until baseball season's over or unless there's a big game early. I guess if you are the Carolina schools you are correct. But the Alabama's, Georgia's, etc should IMO have the big games late when both teams are something like 8-0. Last year Clemson and Notre Dame played in November and the ratings were huge. Sure, they would have gotten big ratings if the game was in September but it wouldn't have been the same if both teams were 0-0 or 1-0. I guess when I'm from a pro sports town baseball matters. Most of SEC/ACC territory doesn't have baseball teams.

College football is bigger here in Kentucky in September and October than November. UK fans have a tendency to stop following football in November once basketball starts more so than UofL fans.

Moving the UofL / Kentucky Governors Cup game to the last week of the season has helped increase interest in college football in November. Unfortunately weather in Kentucky is so hit and miss that attendance usually takes a hit.

Similar in Charlottesville. George Welsh and Al Groh (somewhat) had consistently better teams, so November attendance was better. Our Commonwealth Cup during rivalry week also helps.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2021 09:58 AM by Wahoowa84.)
04-17-2021 07:01 AM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
That's probably why UNC-NC State got moved to November, to increase interest in the game. Not all rivalry games occur in November though. As noted by XLance, Texas-Oklahoma is played in October, during Texas State Fair week. It's been that way for several years, because Texas played Texas A&M in November back then probably.

Georgia-Florida is traditionally played around Halloween because Georgia plays Georgia Tech on Thanksgiving and Florida plays Florida State around the same time.

Navy-Army is typically played in December, when it can command the biggest audience.
04-17-2021 09:58 AM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 09:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That's probably why UNC-NC State got moved to November, to increase interest in the game. Not all rivalry games occur in November though. As noted by XLance, Texas-Oklahoma is played in October, during Texas State Fair week. It's been that way for several years, because Texas played Texas A&M in November back then probably.

Georgia-Florida is traditionally played around Halloween because Georgia plays Georgia Tech on Thanksgiving and Florida plays Florida State around the same time.

Navy-Army is typically played in December, when it can command the biggest audience.

No.

The biggest reason is that two weeks in late October are not conducive for home games at NC State because of the NC State fair that draws about 100-125K on the two Saturdays and there is not enough parking space for 160K to 175K people. Consequently NC State has not hosted a game those two weeks in about 20 years. The week before the State Fair comes to Raleigh, the same outfit is in Winston Salem for a smaller event called the Dixie Classic Fair.

This has a ripple effect on scheduling. It's not a good day in Chapel Hill parking wise on those two Saturdays because people are attempting to use their far shuttle areas as spots to meet and then go to the Fair. 2004 was the last Saturday game played in Raleigh during the State Fair - it was an 8 PM kickoff. We played FSU one year on the Thursday of opening night of the Fair.

In both cases the traveling team did not bring a lot of fans by automobile, but instead flew into RDU.

There has never been a traditional date for the game and it has had stints as the first or second game of the year in the 40's and 50's, and during the 60's-early 90's it was usually the fourth Saturday in September or October.

Since a loss by one to the other usually ruins the season I guess the league office wants to put this off. I think it would make a good game for the 4th for 5th of the season - last week of September until mid October. But if you do that Duke wants to play UNC the last week of the season and again no one will watch. Personally I think UNC and Pitt, and State and Syracuse make good end of year games.

Clemson being tied up with SC, GT tied up with UGa, and FSU tied up with Florida hurts what the ACC can show as a conference game and often leads to the division titles being settled by the second week of November. We need more suspense.

Clemson used to play Big Thursday mid-year. It would make a good October game. GT has played UGA on the last Saturday for the last 110 years. FSU has done the same with Florida since 1977. Of course it takes two to tango, but the last week of the regular season when TAMU and LSU are playing and Auburn and Alabama are playing - they have active division races.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2021 06:49 PM by Statefan.)
04-17-2021 06:20 PM
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Exclamation RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
Rivalry Week is already crowded - ridiculously so. I'd think moving NC State/UNC earlier and playing Duke/UNC and Wake/NC State to end the season is the way to go - which has the added benefit of being in-Division games (on the off chance that UNC/NC State could meet in the ACC CG - I know, I know).
04-17-2021 07:51 PM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 06:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 09:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That's probably why UNC-NC State got moved to November, to increase interest in the game. Not all rivalry games occur in November though. As noted by XLance, Texas-Oklahoma is played in October, during Texas State Fair week. It's been that way for several years, because Texas played Texas A&M in November back then probably.

Georgia-Florida is traditionally played around Halloween because Georgia plays Georgia Tech on Thanksgiving and Florida plays Florida State around the same time.

Navy-Army is typically played in December, when it can command the biggest audience.

No.

The biggest reason is that two weeks in late October are not conducive for home games at NC State because of the NC State fair that draws about 100-125K on the two Saturdays and there is not enough parking space for 160K to 175K people. Consequently NC State has not hosted a game those two weeks in about 20 years. The week before the State Fair comes to Raleigh, the same outfit is in Winston Salem for a smaller event called the Dixie Classic Fair.

This has a ripple effect on scheduling. It's not a good day in Chapel Hill parking wise on those two Saturdays because people are attempting to use their far shuttle areas as spots to meet and then go to the Fair. 2004 was the last Saturday game played in Raleigh during the State Fair - it was an 8 PM kickoff. We played FSU one year on the Thursday of opening night of the Fair.

In both cases the traveling team did not bring a lot of fans by automobile, but instead flew into RDU.

There has never been a traditional date for the game and it has had stints as the first or second game of the year in the 40's and 50's, and during the 60's-early 90's it was usually the fourth Saturday in September or October.

Since a loss by one to the other usually ruins the season I guess the league office wants to put this off. I think it would make a good game for the 4th for 5th of the season - last week of September until mid October. But if you do that Duke wants to play UNC the last week of the season and again no one will watch. Personally I think UNC and Pitt, and State and Syracuse make good end of year games.

Clemson being tied up with SC, GT tied up with UGa, and FSU tied up with Florida hurts what the ACC can show as a conference game and often leads to the division titles being settled by the second week of November. We need more suspense.

Clemson used to play Big Thursday mid-year. It would make a good October game. GT has played UGA on the last Saturday for the last 110 years. FSU has done the same with Florida since 1977. Of course it takes two to tango, but the last week of the regular season when TAMU and LSU are playing and Auburn and Alabama are playing - they have active division races.


(04-17-2021 07:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Rivalry Week is already crowded - ridiculously so. I'd think moving NC State/UNC earlier and playing Duke/UNC and Wake/NC State to end the season is the way to go - which has the added benefit of being in-Division games (on the off chance that UNC/NC State could meet in the ACC CG - I know, I know).

Actually, I think a better idea would be to actually utilize week 0. Very few teams even try to take advantage of this week, and it's really a shame.

If NC State, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest all started the season a week earlier, they could claim the week before rivalry week as an ACC rivalry week. The PAC 12 already dies this with a few of its teams, I've noticed. This accomplishes two things:

1. Greater student and alumni participation in big ACC rivalry games.

2. Not having to compete with other schools' & conferences' rivalry games.

I'm beginning to think that the state of NC is filled with snowbirds, i.eba huge influx of newcomers from northern states that carried their team's affiliation with them instead of rooting for the local team. #2 would help with that, IMO.

I'm addition, Tobacco Road needs to have its byes scheduled around Dixie Fair and the State Fair, IMHO.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2021 08:58 PM by DawgNBama.)
04-17-2021 08:56 PM
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Post: #72
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 08:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 06:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 09:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That's probably why UNC-NC State got moved to November, to increase interest in the game. Not all rivalry games occur in November though. As noted by XLance, Texas-Oklahoma is played in October, during Texas State Fair week. It's been that way for several years, because Texas played Texas A&M in November back then probably.

Georgia-Florida is traditionally played around Halloween because Georgia plays Georgia Tech on Thanksgiving and Florida plays Florida State around the same time.

Navy-Army is typically played in December, when it can command the biggest audience.

No.

The biggest reason is that two weeks in late October are not conducive for home games at NC State because of the NC State fair that draws about 100-125K on the two Saturdays and there is not enough parking space for 160K to 175K people. Consequently NC State has not hosted a game those two weeks in about 20 years. The week before the State Fair comes to Raleigh, the same outfit is in Winston Salem for a smaller event called the Dixie Classic Fair.

This has a ripple effect on scheduling. It's not a good day in Chapel Hill parking wise on those two Saturdays because people are attempting to use their far shuttle areas as spots to meet and then go to the Fair. 2004 was the last Saturday game played in Raleigh during the State Fair - it was an 8 PM kickoff. We played FSU one year on the Thursday of opening night of the Fair.

In both cases the traveling team did not bring a lot of fans by automobile, but instead flew into RDU.

There has never been a traditional date for the game and it has had stints as the first or second game of the year in the 40's and 50's, and during the 60's-early 90's it was usually the fourth Saturday in September or October.

Since a loss by one to the other usually ruins the season I guess the league office wants to put this off. I think it would make a good game for the 4th for 5th of the season - last week of September until mid October. But if you do that Duke wants to play UNC the last week of the season and again no one will watch. Personally I think UNC and Pitt, and State and Syracuse make good end of year games.

Clemson being tied up with SC, GT tied up with UGa, and FSU tied up with Florida hurts what the ACC can show as a conference game and often leads to the division titles being settled by the second week of November. We need more suspense.

Clemson used to play Big Thursday mid-year. It would make a good October game. GT has played UGA on the last Saturday for the last 110 years. FSU has done the same with Florida since 1977. Of course it takes two to tango, but the last week of the regular season when TAMU and LSU are playing and Auburn and Alabama are playing - they have active division races.


(04-17-2021 07:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Rivalry Week is already crowded - ridiculously so. I'd think moving NC State/UNC earlier and playing Duke/UNC and Wake/NC State to end the season is the way to go - which has the added benefit of being in-Division games (on the off chance that UNC/NC State could meet in the ACC CG - I know, I know).

Actually, I think a better idea would be to actually utilize week 0. Very few teams even try to take advantage of this week, and it's really a shame.

If NC State, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest all started the season a week earlier, they could claim the week before rivalry week as an ACC rivalry week. The PAC 12 already dies this with a few of its teams, I've noticed. This accomplishes two things:

1. Greater student and alumni participation in big ACC rivalry games.

2. Not having to compete with other schools' & conferences' rivalry games.

I'm beginning to think that the state of NC is filled with snowbirds, i.eba huge influx of newcomers from northern states that carried their team's affiliation with them instead of rooting for the local team. #2 would help with that, IMO.

I'm addition, Tobacco Road needs to have its byes scheduled around Dixie Fair and the State Fair, IMHO.

Yes NC is overrun by damn Yankees. Philadelphia Eagles, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers flags all over Hell and creation. Another problem is that many of the season ticket holders at State and UNC have a house at the beach with a boat.

The date of the State Fair is a vestige of the Flue Cured Tobacco season.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2021 11:12 PM by Statefan.)
04-17-2021 11:07 PM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 11:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 08:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 06:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 09:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That's probably why UNC-NC State got moved to November, to increase interest in the game. Not all rivalry games occur in November though. As noted by XLance, Texas-Oklahoma is played in October, during Texas State Fair week. It's been that way for several years, because Texas played Texas A&M in November back then probably.

Georgia-Florida is traditionally played around Halloween because Georgia plays Georgia Tech on Thanksgiving and Florida plays Florida State around the same time.

Navy-Army is typically played in December, when it can command the biggest audience.

No.

The biggest reason is that two weeks in late October are not conducive for home games at NC State because of the NC State fair that draws about 100-125K on the two Saturdays and there is not enough parking space for 160K to 175K people. Consequently NC State has not hosted a game those two weeks in about 20 years. The week before the State Fair comes to Raleigh, the same outfit is in Winston Salem for a smaller event called the Dixie Classic Fair.

This has a ripple effect on scheduling. It's not a good day in Chapel Hill parking wise on those two Saturdays because people are attempting to use their far shuttle areas as spots to meet and then go to the Fair. 2004 was the last Saturday game played in Raleigh during the State Fair - it was an 8 PM kickoff. We played FSU one year on the Thursday of opening night of the Fair.

In both cases the traveling team did not bring a lot of fans by automobile, but instead flew into RDU.

There has never been a traditional date for the game and it has had stints as the first or second game of the year in the 40's and 50's, and during the 60's-early 90's it was usually the fourth Saturday in September or October.

Since a loss by one to the other usually ruins the season I guess the league office wants to put this off. I think it would make a good game for the 4th for 5th of the season - last week of September until mid October. But if you do that Duke wants to play UNC the last week of the season and again no one will watch. Personally I think UNC and Pitt, and State and Syracuse make good end of year games.

Clemson being tied up with SC, GT tied up with UGa, and FSU tied up with Florida hurts what the ACC can show as a conference game and often leads to the division titles being settled by the second week of November. We need more suspense.

Clemson used to play Big Thursday mid-year. It would make a good October game. GT has played UGA on the last Saturday for the last 110 years. FSU has done the same with Florida since 1977. Of course it takes two to tango, but the last week of the regular season when TAMU and LSU are playing and Auburn and Alabama are playing - they have active division races.


(04-17-2021 07:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Rivalry Week is already crowded - ridiculously so. I'd think moving NC State/UNC earlier and playing Duke/UNC and Wake/NC State to end the season is the way to go - which has the added benefit of being in-Division games (on the off chance that UNC/NC State could meet in the ACC CG - I know, I know).

Actually, I think a better idea would be to actually utilize week 0. Very few teams even try to take advantage of this week, and it's really a shame.

If NC State, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest all started the season a week earlier, they could claim the week before rivalry week as an ACC rivalry week. The PAC 12 already dies this with a few of its teams, I've noticed. This accomplishes two things:

1. Greater student and alumni participation in big ACC rivalry games.

2. Not having to compete with other schools' & conferences' rivalry games.

I'm beginning to think that the state of NC is filled with snowbirds, i.eba huge influx of newcomers from northern states that carried their team's affiliation with them instead of rooting for the local team. #2 would help with that, IMO.

I'm addition, Tobacco Road needs to have its byes scheduled around Dixie Fair and the State Fair, IMHO.

Yes NC is overrun by damn Yankees. Philadelphia Eagles, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers flags all over Hell and creation. Another problem is that many of the season ticket holders at State and UNC have a house at the beach with a boat.

The date of the State Fair is a vestige of the Flue Cured Tobacco season.



Go Steelers !!!

(Says this Pittsburgh area native and Baton Rouge refugee sitting on the Virginia/North Carolina border).
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2021 11:44 PM by TerryD.)
04-17-2021 11:43 PM
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-17-2021 11:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 08:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 06:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 09:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  That's probably why UNC-NC State got moved to November, to increase interest in the game. Not all rivalry games occur in November though. As noted by XLance, Texas-Oklahoma is played in October, during Texas State Fair week. It's been that way for several years, because Texas played Texas A&M in November back then probably.

Georgia-Florida is traditionally played around Halloween because Georgia plays Georgia Tech on Thanksgiving and Florida plays Florida State around the same time.

Navy-Army is typically played in December, when it can command the biggest audience.

No.

The biggest reason is that two weeks in late October are not conducive for home games at NC State because of the NC State fair that draws about 100-125K on the two Saturdays and there is not enough parking space for 160K to 175K people. Consequently NC State has not hosted a game those two weeks in about 20 years. The week before the State Fair comes to Raleigh, the same outfit is in Winston Salem for a smaller event called the Dixie Classic Fair.

This has a ripple effect on scheduling. It's not a good day in Chapel Hill parking wise on those two Saturdays because people are attempting to use their far shuttle areas as spots to meet and then go to the Fair. 2004 was the last Saturday game played in Raleigh during the State Fair - it was an 8 PM kickoff. We played FSU one year on the Thursday of opening night of the Fair.

In both cases the traveling team did not bring a lot of fans by automobile, but instead flew into RDU.

There has never been a traditional date for the game and it has had stints as the first or second game of the year in the 40's and 50's, and during the 60's-early 90's it was usually the fourth Saturday in September or October.

Since a loss by one to the other usually ruins the season I guess the league office wants to put this off. I think it would make a good game for the 4th for 5th of the season - last week of September until mid October. But if you do that Duke wants to play UNC the last week of the season and again no one will watch. Personally I think UNC and Pitt, and State and Syracuse make good end of year games.

Clemson being tied up with SC, GT tied up with UGa, and FSU tied up with Florida hurts what the ACC can show as a conference game and often leads to the division titles being settled by the second week of November. We need more suspense.

Clemson used to play Big Thursday mid-year. It would make a good October game. GT has played UGA on the last Saturday for the last 110 years. FSU has done the same with Florida since 1977. Of course it takes two to tango, but the last week of the regular season when TAMU and LSU are playing and Auburn and Alabama are playing - they have active division races.


(04-17-2021 07:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Rivalry Week is already crowded - ridiculously so. I'd think moving NC State/UNC earlier and playing Duke/UNC and Wake/NC State to end the season is the way to go - which has the added benefit of being in-Division games (on the off chance that UNC/NC State could meet in the ACC CG - I know, I know).

Actually, I think a better idea would be to actually utilize week 0. Very few teams even try to take advantage of this week, and it's really a shame.

If NC State, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest all started the season a week earlier, they could claim the week before rivalry week as an ACC rivalry week. The PAC 12 already dies this with a few of its teams, I've noticed. This accomplishes two things:

1. Greater student and alumni participation in big ACC rivalry games.

2. Not having to compete with other schools' & conferences' rivalry games.

I'm beginning to think that the state of NC is filled with snowbirds, i.eba huge influx of newcomers from northern states that carried their team's affiliation with them instead of rooting for the local team. #2 would help with that, IMO.

I'm addition, Tobacco Road needs to have its byes scheduled around Dixie Fair and the State Fair, IMHO.

Yes NC is overrun by damn Yankees. Philadelphia Eagles, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers flags all over Hell and creation. Another problem is that many of the season ticket holders at State and UNC have a house at the beach with a boat.

The date of the State Fair is a vestige of the Flue Cured Tobacco season.



Go Steelers !!!

(Says this Pittsburgh area native and Baton Rouge refugee sitting on the Virginia/North Carolina border).

Is it still winter in Mouth of Wilson?
04-18-2021 12:44 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-18-2021 12:44 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 08:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 06:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  No.

The biggest reason is that two weeks in late October are not conducive for home games at NC State because of the NC State fair that draws about 100-125K on the two Saturdays and there is not enough parking space for 160K to 175K people. Consequently NC State has not hosted a game those two weeks in about 20 years. The week before the State Fair comes to Raleigh, the same outfit is in Winston Salem for a smaller event called the Dixie Classic Fair.

This has a ripple effect on scheduling. It's not a good day in Chapel Hill parking wise on those two Saturdays because people are attempting to use their far shuttle areas as spots to meet and then go to the Fair. 2004 was the last Saturday game played in Raleigh during the State Fair - it was an 8 PM kickoff. We played FSU one year on the Thursday of opening night of the Fair.

In both cases the traveling team did not bring a lot of fans by automobile, but instead flew into RDU.

There has never been a traditional date for the game and it has had stints as the first or second game of the year in the 40's and 50's, and during the 60's-early 90's it was usually the fourth Saturday in September or October.

Since a loss by one to the other usually ruins the season I guess the league office wants to put this off. I think it would make a good game for the 4th for 5th of the season - last week of September until mid October. But if you do that Duke wants to play UNC the last week of the season and again no one will watch. Personally I think UNC and Pitt, and State and Syracuse make good end of year games.

Clemson being tied up with SC, GT tied up with UGa, and FSU tied up with Florida hurts what the ACC can show as a conference game and often leads to the division titles being settled by the second week of November. We need more suspense.

Clemson used to play Big Thursday mid-year. It would make a good October game. GT has played UGA on the last Saturday for the last 110 years. FSU has done the same with Florida since 1977. Of course it takes two to tango, but the last week of the regular season when TAMU and LSU are playing and Auburn and Alabama are playing - they have active division races.


(04-17-2021 07:51 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Rivalry Week is already crowded - ridiculously so. I'd think moving NC State/UNC earlier and playing Duke/UNC and Wake/NC State to end the season is the way to go - which has the added benefit of being in-Division games (on the off chance that UNC/NC State could meet in the ACC CG - I know, I know).

Actually, I think a better idea would be to actually utilize week 0. Very few teams even try to take advantage of this week, and it's really a shame.

If NC State, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest all started the season a week earlier, they could claim the week before rivalry week as an ACC rivalry week. The PAC 12 already dies this with a few of its teams, I've noticed. This accomplishes two things:

1. Greater student and alumni participation in big ACC rivalry games.

2. Not having to compete with other schools' & conferences' rivalry games.

I'm beginning to think that the state of NC is filled with snowbirds, i.eba huge influx of newcomers from northern states that carried their team's affiliation with them instead of rooting for the local team. #2 would help with that, IMO.

I'm addition, Tobacco Road needs to have its byes scheduled around Dixie Fair and the State Fair, IMHO.

Yes NC is overrun by damn Yankees. Philadelphia Eagles, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers flags all over Hell and creation. Another problem is that many of the season ticket holders at State and UNC have a house at the beach with a boat.

The date of the State Fair is a vestige of the Flue Cured Tobacco season.



Go Steelers !!!

(Says this Pittsburgh area native and Baton Rouge refugee sitting on the Virginia/North Carolina border).

Is it still winter in Mouth of Wilson?


Year round, it seems.
04-18-2021 01:20 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #76
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-18-2021 01:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 12:44 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 08:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Actually, I think a better idea would be to actually utilize week 0. Very few teams even try to take advantage of this week, and it's really a shame.

If NC State, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest all started the season a week earlier, they could claim the week before rivalry week as an ACC rivalry week. The PAC 12 already dies this with a few of its teams, I've noticed. This accomplishes two things:

1. Greater student and alumni participation in big ACC rivalry games.

2. Not having to compete with other schools' & conferences' rivalry games.

I'm beginning to think that the state of NC is filled with snowbirds, i.eba huge influx of newcomers from northern states that carried their team's affiliation with them instead of rooting for the local team. #2 would help with that, IMO.

I'm addition, Tobacco Road needs to have its byes scheduled around Dixie Fair and the State Fair, IMHO.

Yes NC is overrun by damn Yankees. Philadelphia Eagles, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers flags all over Hell and creation. Another problem is that many of the season ticket holders at State and UNC have a house at the beach with a boat.

The date of the State Fair is a vestige of the Flue Cured Tobacco season.



Go Steelers !!!

(Says this Pittsburgh area native and Baton Rouge refugee sitting on the Virginia/North Carolina border).

Is it still winter in Mouth of Wilson?


Year round, it seems.

Nah, that only happens on Whitetop or Pond Mtn. 04-cheers
04-18-2021 03:34 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #77
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-18-2021 03:34 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 01:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 12:44 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:43 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Yes NC is overrun by damn Yankees. Philadelphia Eagles, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers flags all over Hell and creation. Another problem is that many of the season ticket holders at State and UNC have a house at the beach with a boat.

The date of the State Fair is a vestige of the Flue Cured Tobacco season.



Go Steelers !!!

(Says this Pittsburgh area native and Baton Rouge refugee sitting on the Virginia/North Carolina border).

Is it still winter in Mouth of Wilson?


Year round, it seems.

Nah, that only happens on Whitetop or Pond Mtn. 04-cheers

What, 3 miles away?
04-19-2021 12:10 AM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #78
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
(04-15-2021 09:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-15-2021 08:54 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Wahoo - did you notice this footnote in the 2020 "data" ^ Clemson-Notre Dame in primetime is compared to Virginia Tech-Notre Dame in the afternoon last year.
* Miami-NC State on ESPN is compared to Navy-UConn on ESPN2 last year.

Now, think about that for a moment. What in the world make those games comparable? I appreciate the effort, but the effect of plucking low hanging statistical fruit is that the fruit can be so low that it might just be a cow pie instead of fruit.

I'm not sure that pointing out that something is probably statistically invalid is the same a sticking one's head in the sand.

This is what you promised in your thesis:

I tallied Sports Media Watch football viewership data for the past 4 years (2017-2020). Ranking each power 5 school by four criteria:
1) # viewers (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
2) average # viewers per game (home, away & neutral site games, including bowls)
3) # of viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)
4) average # viewers for home venue (what the conference sells as Media Rights)

In order of ACC media value:


Clemson (#9 P5 rank; 31% of viewership of ACC teams; 16% of ACC's T1 & T2 media rights viewership)
Miami (#18; 12%; 11%)
FSU (#19; 9%; 10%)
VT (#29; 7%; 7%)
Louisville (#30; 6%; 8%)
UNC (#39; 5%; 7%)
Pitt (#41; 5%; 5%)
GT (#42; 4%; 6%)
BC (#43; 4%; 6%)
Syracuse (#46; 4%; 4%)
UVA (#54; 4%; 3%)
Wake (#55; 4%; 4%)
NC State (#56; 4%; 4%)
Duke (#62; 3%; 2%)
ACC CCG (#4 amongst 5 P5; N/A; 8%)

The P5 schools ranked ahead of Clemson in terms of viewership are: Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Notre Dame and Oklahoma.

The P5 schools ranked below Duke in terms of viewership are: Rutgers, Kansas and Oregon State.

Unfortunately, Tobacco Road is where football viewership struggles.

This last sentence is your conclusion.

You don't disclose that the data is mostly missing and that what you have are "some" data points discreetly picked out over the course of a year. That might lead someone to think your data actually meant more than it does.

For example lets take Duke playing Wake Forest.

If the game is played at 3:30 on RSN no one is going to watch since 6-10 better games are available. If the game is played at 7:30 on a Thursday night a built in audience, albeit small is set aside for that event. If the game is played on ABC at 8:00 PM on a Saturday night without a competing game of top 10 folks, suddenly Duke and WF look like media titans.

When you play matters perhaps as much as who you play with regard to ratings.

What's at stake also matters. If Duke and WF are playing for the ACC title someone might actually watch. If they are playing and both have a losing record you might not have 15K in attendance and just as many watching from home.

Actually your data points indicate that viewership seems to struggle when the two teams suck.

01-ncaabbs

So I guess this list doesn’t really reveal the inherent ability to draw viewers. But I don’t think the work Wahoowa had done was meaningless.

To me it seems the list shows how much each team has been exposed to the viewers. Multiple factors affect these figures as noted by Statefan including dates, opponents, time slots, channels, etc. But I think it’s still important to track and analyze the end results - which are the number of viewers.
04-19-2021 09:58 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #79
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
Terry - More like 7 miles, but 1200 feet higher

Asian - As with many things a good product sells itself. If it is not a good product you need a hell of sales pitch. Sex sells. Hate sells. Dreams of what could have been sell.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 10:55 AM by Statefan.)
04-19-2021 10:52 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: ACC Media Rights - Viewership by School
I was curious whether ESPN had different television strategies for comparable teams from different conferences. Records and # of rated national TV games over the past 4 years:
NC State 29-19; 9 rated national TV games
Kentucky 30-20; 4 games
Virginia 28-22; 7 games

Season Week Viewers (M) Team A (away) Team B (home)
2018 W10 4.392 UGA UK
2019 W3 3.140 UF UK
2019 W14 2.840 VT UVA
2017 W10 2.831 Clem NCSt
2019 W11 2.710 Clem NCSt
2017 W13 2.144 VT UVA
2020 W10 1.870 Mia NCSt
2017 W6 1.549 Lou NCSt
2018 W10 1.359 Pitt UVA
2018 W10 1.347 FSU NCSt
2018 W4 1.219 MsSt UK
2018 W7 0.870 Mia UVA
2018 W11 0.744 Wake NCSt
2019 W7 0.714 Syr NCSt
2019 W4 0.414 ODU UVA
2017 W2 0.358 Ind UVA
2018 W1 0.327 CMU UK
2017 W3 0.286 UConn UVA
2017 W13 0.271 UNC NCSt
2018 W1 0.241 JMU NCSt

It appears that in the SEC, even a good Kentucky team does not get a lot of national television exposure. Kentucky's media rankings (37 out of 65 P5 programs) are middle of the road...partly because ESPN minimizes the number of games televised nationally from Commonwealth Stadium. The visits by UGA and Florida are the marquee television events.

NC State and UVA each have 4 nationally televised with less than 1 million viewers. They average one national game per season each with bad ratings.

During the past 4 years, Kentucky only has one nationally televised game (2018 W1 versus CMU) with poor ratings. The SEC has enough strong television content, in order to minimize weakly rated national UK TV games.

Given 2020 was a pandemic year, ESPN and ACC/SEC probably didn't hold each other accountable for minimums in national games. No national games were televised out of Commonwealth Stadium or Scott Stadium (Carter-Finley Stadium had only one national game...versus bell cow Miami Hurricanes).
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 11:54 AM by Wahoowa84.)
04-19-2021 11:16 AM
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