(03-24-2021 03:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:27 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:20 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:04 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:01 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  About 10 years ago, I toured U Chicago with my daughter. I was stunned when I heard their slogan: “where fun comes to die”. She persisted and gained admissions via the early decision process. U Chicago had a weekend get-together for accepted students in February...the weather killed any chance of matriculation. They definitely needed to change their reputation.

One of my nephews applied for admission to UChicago for the fall (he got a deferral). Not sure I would want him to attend if he gets accepted. It's a VERY challenging university.

Challenging can be fine...it depends on the kid.

My issue was that my daughter was already an extremely hard worker, I was encouraging a “work hard, play hard” experience for her undergraduate. Most selective schools need to emphasize that there is an opportunity for balance.

I love Chicago (my father has been a Cubs fan since 1945) and would be thrilled to see my nephew experience living and attending school in the Windy City.

But I just don't know if he would like UofC (with, as you note, the weather being a factor in addition to the overall tough academics).

I trust your daughter found a fine university and was happy there.

Chicago is wonderful. One of my sons lives / works there, so it was a frequent prepandemic destination.

That daughter eventually chose Duke and actually stayed for a year post graduation. Durham is now a great foodie town.

My sister once lived in Chapel Hill and the last time I visited Durham was mid-2002. I was impressed and I hear Durham has evolved in a very urbane and cool way. I would like to see it now.

Duke is an outstanding school.

I've seen the UVa campus ... beautiful.

Marquette was mentioned as a candidate when Michigan State was added. There are some old articles online discussing the candidates. Not sure of MU or ND would have been seriously considered because they are both Catholic. Times are different now.

BTW, no one except a DePaul alum would put them ahead of Loyola. Just kidding, sort of. DePaul was contemplating adding technical junior college degrees, like plumbing and electrician studies, a few years ago. That said, there are some programs, like accounting, that are top notch at DePaul.

I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

One thing that would be incredibly different if Pittsburgh joined the Big 10 in 1950 is their schedule. For decades the Pittsburgh schedule was highlighted by 3 premier match ups against fellow independents:

Notre Dame
Penn St
West Virginia

The Panthers could probably keep 2 of these on the schedule but certainly not all 3. I wonder which one or ones they’d sacrifice to make room for a Big Ten slate.

Notre Dame was a fairly new rivalry—it had only became a frequent fixture in the 1930s so maybe them. But the Irish were also the most high profile national program at the time.

After dropping 5 of the first 6, the WVU game was a pretty lopsided affair in favor of Pitt. The Penn St rivalry also saw Pitt on the dominant side of that match up as well.

(03-24-2021 05:23 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:01 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 02:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 01:54 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  How about if Northwestern and UChicago had merged in 1933? Then UChicago President Robert Hutchins was an extremely unique and ultimately a very influential figure in academia. "The University of Chicago; A History" by John Bowyer us a great read for anyone interested in academia.....

The only two things that Northwestern and UChicago have in common are that they're (1) academically elite schools and (2) in close proximity in the Chicago area.

Otherwise, they're VERY different schools. Northwestern has a preprofessional focus, significant Greek life, and Big Ten sports - in essence, it has extremely smart kids but its culture is pretty "normal" as far as college campuses go. Any smart kid at a state flagship school would honestly feel pretty comfortable at Northwestern. UChicago, on the other hand, is a hard core "learning for the sake of learning" academic campus with a very distinct intellectual and quirky atmosphere. They pride themselves on how brutally tough their academic courseload is for everyone.

As a lifelong Chicagoan, I know tons of people that went to both of these schools. Virtually all of the Northwestern grads *loved* their time on campus in a similar way that Michigan grads talk about Michigan or Notre Dame grads talk about Notre Dame. It's a really balanced school between top academics and social life similar to places like Vanderbilt and Duke. Meanwhile, the UChicago grads often talk about their experience the way that military people talk about boot camp (e.g. a lifechanging experience for a young person, but not necessarily fun). I think UChicago is starting to move away from the hard core nature lately as it has moved up the US News Rankings, but it's still a college with a very distinct personality where you're either going to fit in there or you're going to feel totally out of place.

About 10 years ago, I toured U Chicago with my daughter. I was stunned when I heard their slogan: “where fun comes to die”. She persisted and gained admissions via the early decision process. U Chicago had a weekend get-together for accepted students in February...the weather killed any chance of matriculation. They definitely needed to change their reputation.

I've been lucky enough to be around Patriot League and Ivy League football my entire life which opened my eyes to elite universities at an early age. With that said, UChicago is on a completely different level than all those schools when it comes to academic rigor and quirky campus life. The university has always had a unique perspective/pioneering approach to undergrad and grad curriculum. Students are pushed extremely hard not just in tangible course work but in thought and discourse. Everything is setup to tap into elite levels of critical thinking and research. Students need to be willing and have the capacity to push their mind/thought process in ways most people honestly can't.

While I'm fascinated by UChicago I would never sign up for THAT college lifestyle. I do like the "military" analogy that was used earlier because I believe it fits. The UChicago mission is to reshape students into elite professionals and researchers by extracting every bit of potential they have. The only institutions that seem similar, at least to me, in the manner they accomplish that are the Claremont Colleges; Harvey Mudd and Pomona.

I still love to ponder the hypotheticals had UChicago and Northwestern decided to merge in 1933. Had that happened the course of academic and athletic history in this country would be vastly different imo.

Yeah, UChicago for undergrad is a totally unique experience for better or worse. I completely respect it, but don’t know if I could see my own kids enjoying that type of school for undergrad. Grad school is a totally different matter, though. Any JD, MBA, MD or PhD from there is essentially gold and you pretty much can’t turn them down unless you also got into Harvard or Stanford (or Yale Law specifically). UChicago churns out economics Nobel Prize winners and federal judicial law clerks (the most prestigious job you can get out of law school) the way that Alabama churns out NFL draft picks.

I’m going to throw down another Penn St scenario:

Let’s say the BE rejects Penn St one the early 80s and then Pitt black balls them from the Big Ten in 1989.

The A-10 is sitting at 4 D1-A schools at the time. What if it’s them that brings in Miami and VT as full members, and then Syracuse and BC are the football affiliates? Does that change the calculus of the 2003-2004 realignment?

If Penn St isn’t joining the Big Ten, triggering all the other moves, maybe the 1989-1990 realignment doesn’t happen.

(03-24-2021 06:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

I think your Ivy League, NYU, Chicago, Case Western Reserve, Carnegie Mellon, and Washington U (St L) types are all pretty set where they are. I don’t think there’s any coming back to the big time in athletics. Those schools already have their academic reputations solidified, they don’t need athletics as a means to advertise their schools and they aren’t interested in losing their standards to being in athletes who can compete. They are happy where they are.

(03-24-2021 06:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

One thing to note: UChicago isn’t part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance any longer.

Rice is the highest ranked FBS school that isn’t in the P5, so that might be the ceiling for a school like UChicago that’s starting from scratch.

Of course, if there’s *Ivy League* expansion, then we’d be looking at conference realignment pandemonium. UChicago and Johns Hopkins would fit in very nicely there. Now that I think of it, that’s really the only reason why I’d see UChicago to attempt to go D-1 - it’s about the Ivy League instead of the Big Ten.

(03-24-2021 07:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 06:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

I think your Ivy League, NYU, Chicago, Case Western Reserve, Carnegie Mellon, and Washington U (St L) types are all pretty set where they are. I don’t think there’s any coming back to the big time in athletics. Those schools already have their academic reputations solidified, they don’t need athletics as a means to advertise their schools and they aren’t interested in losing their standards to being in athletes who can compete. They are happy where they are.

There's a varying degree of athletic ambition that exists within the Ivy League but no one wants to break ranks. I believe that at least half of the IL wants to participate in the FCS playoffs. Unfortunately, Harvard and Yale ultimately control the room and they're both a nay.

The Patriot League has always operated in a similar manner. However, the PL has at least been open to change/adapting (scholarships, FCS playoffs, expanded OOC scheduling, having athletics during Covid etc) . Even if it's often at a glacial pace....

(03-24-2021 06:22 PM)MU88 Wrote:  Marquette was mentioned as a candidate when Michigan State was added. There are some old articles online discussing the candidates. Not sure of MU or ND would have been seriously considered because they are both Catholic. Times are different now.

BTW, no one except a DePaul alum would put them ahead of Loyola. Just kidding, sort of. DePaul was contemplating adding technical junior college degrees, like plumbing and electrician studies, a few years ago. That said, there are some programs, like accounting, that are top notch at DePaul.

To be fair, I can see how anybody would rank Loyola ahead of DePaul. If anything, Loyola offers a school of medicine, which is a big deal (obviously).

It's very close and because I'm partial to DePaul ... my homerism might have influenced my choice. I would be comfortable with Loyola at 3A and DePaul at 3B.

(03-24-2021 06:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m going to throw down another Penn St scenario:

Let’s say the BE rejects Penn St one the early 80s and then Pitt black balls them from the Big Ten in 1989.

The A-10 is sitting at 4 D1-A schools at the time. What if it’s them that brings in Miami and VT as full members, and then Syracuse and BC are the football affiliates? Does that change the calculus of the 2003-2004 realignment?

If Penn St isn’t joining the Big Ten, triggering all the other moves, maybe the 1989-1990 realignment doesn’t happen.

Only way that Penn State starts a successful conference is if they start early and go big. If they form a conference by the mid 1980s, then there a lot of independents that they could get...FSU, Miami, USC, VT, Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Temple and Rutgers.

(03-24-2021 07:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 06:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

One thing to note: UChicago isn’t part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance any longer.

Rice is the highest ranked FBS school that isn’t in the P5, so that might be the ceiling for a school like UChicago that’s starting from scratch.

Of course, if there’s *Ivy League* expansion, then we’d be looking at conference realignment pandemonium. UChicago and Johns Hopkins would fit in very nicely there. Now that I think of it, that’s really the only reason why I’d see UChicago to attempt to go D-1 - it’s about the Ivy League instead of the Big Ten.

Imo the travel requirements and tradition would prevent UC from ever getting into the Ivy League even if they did build up their athletic program. It is interesting to think about an alternate timeline though where you had a rival DI "nerd conference" close to the Big Ten footprint with UC, Northwestern, WashU, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, and Johns Hopkins (Notre Dame if they didn't mind the religion, or Butler if they beefed up their academics), similar to the current UAA of Division III. While we're at it, why not have the Magnolia Conference with Rice, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Emory, and Duke (throwing in Da U, Wake Forest, and TCU later on).

As others have pointed out, UC is truly a horse of a different color. Imo part of it stems from their south side location; Hyde Park is a cute neighborhood with money but it's VERY close to some of the worst parts of Chicagoland, that might contribute to a very closed and competitive culture that fuels excellence but a unique culture. Northwestern is technically in a burb, but Evanston is in a very upscale part of the area and it also has an L stop to connect it with the city.

Hindsight is 20/20, but on the topic of Illinois public universities it was a big missed opportunity for the state to not create an IU/Purdue model where you had one college to cover liberal arts and one for technical education. The former would be downstate, the latter in the urban core of Chicago to play a role like Georgia Tech does. Would have done a lot to prevent the student drain out of state, and would've probably been Big Ten as well. Though I can't blame them for choosing Champaign-Urbana for a single flagship, while Chicago was exploding when UIUC was founded it was less than twenty years prior that it was the same size as Portland, Maine. They didn't know Chicago would become such a behemoth.

There’s definitely enough expensive, brainy, elite schools throughout the Midwest to make a conference.

We call the ones in the East the Ivies

We refer to a similar hypothetical one in the South as the Magnolia League

What does one call a conference of elite Midwestern schools?

(03-24-2021 06:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m going to throw down another Penn St scenario:

Let’s say the BE rejects Penn St one the early 80s and then Pitt black balls them from the Big Ten in 1989.

The A-10 is sitting at 4 D1-A schools at the time. What if it’s them that brings in Miami and VT as full members, and then Syracuse and BC are the football affiliates? Does that change the calculus of the 2003-2004 realignment?

If Penn St isn’t joining the Big Ten, triggering all the other moves, maybe the 1989-1990 realignment doesn’t happen.

Biggest change from this: UMass and UCONN are reversed in fortunes. Meaning that today UMass would be independent in Football and playing in the A10 otherwise and UCONN would be independent in football and playing in the Big East otherwise.


...wait

(03-24-2021 10:58 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 07:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 06:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

One thing to note: UChicago isn’t part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance any longer.

Rice is the highest ranked FBS school that isn’t in the P5, so that might be the ceiling for a school like UChicago that’s starting from scratch.

Of course, if there’s *Ivy League* expansion, then we’d be looking at conference realignment pandemonium. UChicago and Johns Hopkins would fit in very nicely there. Now that I think of it, that’s really the only reason why I’d see UChicago to attempt to go D-1 - it’s about the Ivy League instead of the Big Ten.

Imo the travel requirements and tradition would prevent UC from ever getting into the Ivy League even if they did build up their athletic program. It is interesting to think about an alternate timeline though where you had a rival DI "nerd conference" close to the Big Ten footprint with UC, Northwestern, WashU, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, and Johns Hopkins (Notre Dame if they didn't mind the religion, or Butler if they beefed up their academics), similar to the current UAA of Division III. While we're at it, why not have the Magnolia Conference with Rice, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Emory, and Duke (throwing in Da U, Wake Forest, and TCU later on).

As others have pointed out, UC is truly a horse of a different color. Imo part of it stems from their south side location; Hyde Park is a cute neighborhood with money but it's VERY close to some of the worst parts of Chicagoland, that might contribute to a very closed and competitive culture that fuels excellence but a unique culture. Northwestern is technically in a burb, but Evanston is in a very upscale part of the area and it also has an L stop to connect it with the city.

Hindsight is 20/20, but on the topic of Illinois public universities it was a big missed opportunity for the state to not create an IU/Purdue model where you had one college to cover liberal arts and one for technical education. The former would be downstate, the latter in the urban core of Chicago to play a role like Georgia Tech does. Would have done a lot to prevent the student drain out of state, and would've probably been Big Ten as well. Though I can't blame them for choosing Champaign-Urbana for a single flagship, while Chicago was exploding when UIUC was founded it was less than twenty years prior that it was the same size as Portland, Maine. They didn't know Chicago would become such a behemoth.

Case and Western Reserve were separate universities until the late 1960s. They both had excellent sports programs in the pre-war era.

(03-25-2021 06:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There’s definitely enough expensive, brainy, elite schools throughout the Midwest to make a conference.

We call the ones in the East the Ivies

We refer to a similar hypothetical one in the South as the Magnolia League

What does one call a conference of elite Midwestern schools?

Well, that’s sort of what the UAA is today. Note that UChicago removed football and baseball from the UAA and joined the more regionalized Midwest Conference for those sports over the past few years, though, so it might be that the academic prestige of the league isn’t quite as important to UChicago as it is to save on travel expenses as of now. Granted, it seems like the UAA is more of a super-scheduling alliance than a cohesive conference - they don’t play that as many conference games against each other compared to other Division III leagues. The UAA schools generally play only 3 or 4 conference football games per year, whereas the NESCAC plays a full 9-game round robin. It sort of makes sense since the UAA has a larger geographic footprint that looks more like the Big Ten or ACC than it does for a typical Division III league (where bus trips are the norm). So, maybe UChicago didn’t feel they were losing much with changing football leagues (as they still play their main rival Wash U annually).

(03-24-2021 05:23 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:01 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 02:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 01:54 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  How about if Northwestern and UChicago had merged in 1933? Then UChicago President Robert Hutchins was an extremely unique and ultimately a very influential figure in academia. "The University of Chicago; A History" by John Bowyer us a great read for anyone interested in academia.....

The only two things that Northwestern and UChicago have in common are that they're (1) academically elite schools and (2) in close proximity in the Chicago area.

Otherwise, they're VERY different schools. Northwestern has a preprofessional focus, significant Greek life, and Big Ten sports - in essence, it has extremely smart kids but its culture is pretty "normal" as far as college campuses go. Any smart kid at a state flagship school would honestly feel pretty comfortable at Northwestern. UChicago, on the other hand, is a hard core "learning for the sake of learning" academic campus with a very distinct intellectual and quirky atmosphere. They pride themselves on how brutally tough their academic courseload is for everyone.

As a lifelong Chicagoan, I know tons of people that went to both of these schools. Virtually all of the Northwestern grads *loved* their time on campus in a similar way that Michigan grads talk about Michigan or Notre Dame grads talk about Notre Dame. It's a really balanced school between top academics and social life similar to places like Vanderbilt and Duke. Meanwhile, the UChicago grads often talk about their experience the way that military people talk about boot camp (e.g. a lifechanging experience for a young person, but not necessarily fun). I think UChicago is starting to move away from the hard core nature lately as it has moved up the US News Rankings, but it's still a college with a very distinct personality where you're either going to fit in there or you're going to feel totally out of place.

About 10 years ago, I toured U Chicago with my daughter. I was stunned when I heard their slogan: “where fun comes to die”. She persisted and gained admissions via the early decision process. U Chicago had a weekend get-together for accepted students in February...the weather killed any chance of matriculation. They definitely needed to change their reputation.

I've been lucky enough to be around Patriot League and Ivy League football my entire life which opened my eyes to elite universities at an early age. With that said, UChicago is on a completely different level than all those schools when it comes to academic rigor and quirky campus life. The university has always had a unique perspective/pioneering approach to undergrad and grad curriculum. Students are pushed extremely hard not just in tangible course work but in thought and discourse. Everything is setup to tap into elite levels of critical thinking and research. Students need to be willing and have the capacity to push their mind/thought process in ways most people honestly can't.

While I'm fascinated by UChicago I would never sign up for THAT college lifestyle. I do like the "military" analogy that was used earlier because I believe it fits. The UChicago mission is to reshape students into elite professionals and researchers by extracting every bit of potential they have. The only institutions that seem similar, at least to me, in the manner they accomplish that are the Claremont Colleges; Harvey Mudd and Pomona.

I still love to ponder the hypotheticals had UChicago and Northwestern decided to merge in 1933. Had that happened the course of academic and athletic history in this country would be vastly different imo.

I agree with you, and I disagree with Wahoowa84 that Chicago needs to change its culture/reputation.

My undergrad school, Case Western, has a similar academic culture to Chicago. It pushes you HARD. But you're around brilliant people. And you come out of it a lot better person.

If I had gone to a Big Ten public school, I would have gotten easy A's and had a lot of fun. But I wouldn't have learned much.

Frankly, for someone like me (who is lazy, but learns things easily and went to a great high school), a state school would have been a waste of my time - I would have been better off skipping college alltogether & learning a trade.

I needed a place like Case or Chicago.

(03-24-2021 03:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Having attended college in Chicago and with a personal connection to both Roosevelt University and DePaul University, here is my biased ranking of the Top 10 universities in the Windy City. The metrics include academic budgets, endowments, acceptance rates, graduation rates, sports, enrollments, quality of academic programs, professional programs and overall influence.

1A. Northwestern

1B. University of Chicago

3. DePaul

4. Loyola

5. Illinois Institute of Technology

6. UIC

7. Roosevelt

8. St. Xavier

9. Columbia College

10. National Lewis

I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

(03-25-2021 11:47 AM)chess Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Having attended college in Chicago and with a personal connection to both Roosevelt University and DePaul University, here is my biased ranking of the Top 10 universities in the Windy City. The metrics include academic budgets, endowments, acceptance rates, graduation rates, sports, enrollments, quality of academic programs, professional programs and overall influence.

1A. Northwestern

1B. University of Chicago

3. DePaul

4. Loyola

5. Illinois Institute of Technology

6. UIC

7. Roosevelt

8. St. Xavier

9. Columbia College

10. National Lewis

I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

(03-24-2021 10:58 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 07:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 06:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm more interested in what would happen if a long-ago power like Chicago or NYU decided to reemphasize athletics and endeavored to return to D1 and reach as high a level within it as they can. Is it viable? How far *could* they go? Chicago is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance; does that have any bearing on their future if they wanted to eventually return to the Big Ten as an athletic member (keeping in mind that would be decades away even in the most bullish of scenarios)?

One thing to note: UChicago isn’t part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance any longer.

Rice is the highest ranked FBS school that isn’t in the P5, so that might be the ceiling for a school like UChicago that’s starting from scratch.

Of course, if there’s *Ivy League* expansion, then we’d be looking at conference realignment pandemonium. UChicago and Johns Hopkins would fit in very nicely there. Now that I think of it, that’s really the only reason why I’d see UChicago to attempt to go D-1 - it’s about the Ivy League instead of the Big Ten.

Imo the travel requirements and tradition would prevent UC from ever getting into the Ivy League even if they did build up their athletic program. It is interesting to think about an alternate timeline though where you had a rival DI "nerd conference" close to the Big Ten footprint with UC, Northwestern, WashU, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, and Johns Hopkins (Notre Dame if they didn't mind the religion, or Butler if they beefed up their academics), similar to the current UAA of Division III. While we're at it, why not have the Magnolia Conference with Rice, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Emory, and Duke (throwing in Da U, Wake Forest, and TCU later on).

As others have pointed out, UC is truly a horse of a different color. Imo part of it stems from their south side location; Hyde Park is a cute neighborhood with money but it's VERY close to some of the worst parts of Chicagoland, that might contribute to a very closed and competitive culture that fuels excellence but a unique culture. Northwestern is technically in a burb, but Evanston is in a very upscale part of the area and it also has an L stop to connect it with the city.

Hindsight is 20/20, but on the topic of Illinois public universities it was a big missed opportunity for the state to not create an IU/Purdue model where you had one college to cover liberal arts and one for technical education. The former would be downstate, the latter in the urban core of Chicago to play a role like Georgia Tech does. Would have done a lot to prevent the student drain out of state, and would've probably been Big Ten as well. Though I can't blame them for choosing Champaign-Urbana for a single flagship, while Chicago was exploding when UIUC was founded it was less than twenty years prior that it was the same size as Portland, Maine. They didn't know Chicago would become such a behemoth.

In that scenario, URochester would make a move to join their UAA brethren. More interesting would have been a scenario where U of R and RIT merge? Would that combination be an AAC school now or would it be D3?