(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 11:47 AM)chess Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Having attended college in Chicago and with a personal connection to both Roosevelt University and DePaul University, here is my biased ranking of the Top 10 universities in the Windy City. The metrics include academic budgets, endowments, acceptance rates, graduation rates, sports, enrollments, quality of academic programs, professional programs and overall influence.

1A. Northwestern

1B. University of Chicago

3. DePaul

4. Loyola

5. Illinois Institute of Technology

6. UIC

7. Roosevelt

8. St. Xavier

9. Columbia College

10. National Lewis

I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 11:47 AM)chess Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Having attended college in Chicago and with a personal connection to both Roosevelt University and DePaul University, here is my biased ranking of the Top 10 universities in the Windy City. The metrics include academic budgets, endowments, acceptance rates, graduation rates, sports, enrollments, quality of academic programs, professional programs and overall influence.

1A. Northwestern

1B. University of Chicago

3. DePaul

4. Loyola

5. Illinois Institute of Technology

6. UIC

7. Roosevelt

8. St. Xavier

9. Columbia College

10. National Lewis

I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 11:47 AM)chess Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 03:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Having attended college in Chicago and with a personal connection to both Roosevelt University and DePaul University, here is my biased ranking of the Top 10 universities in the Windy City. The metrics include academic budgets, endowments, acceptance rates, graduation rates, sports, enrollments, quality of academic programs, professional programs and overall influence.

1A. Northwestern

1B. University of Chicago

3. DePaul

4. Loyola

5. Illinois Institute of Technology

6. UIC

7. Roosevelt

8. St. Xavier

9. Columbia College

10. National Lewis

I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

(03-24-2021 03:22 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 02:44 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 01:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 01:16 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Would Penn State have been in the conversation if Pittsburgh was?

None of the articles I found from the time mention Penn St as an option, just Pittsburgh.

Penn State was literally in the middle of nowhere back then and had no real athletic pedigree at that point.

Even by the time Penn State did join the Big Ten the knock on them was how remote and inaccessible it was. In the 40's and 50's it must have seemed like "you can't get there from here". Pitt would have been by far the more obvious choice, and as a Big Ten member might have prevented Penn State from ever growing into the Beast of the East the way it did.

The Big 10 ADs threw a fit when PSU was admitted without their input. They knew it was hard to get to.

(03-24-2021 02:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 01:54 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  How about if Northwestern and UChicago had merged in 1933? Then UChicago President Robert Hutchins was an extremely unique and ultimately a very influential figure in academia. "The University of Chicago; A History" by John Bowyer us a great read for anyone interested in academia.....

The only two things that Northwestern and UChicago have in common are that they're (1) academically elite schools and (2) in close proximity in the Chicago area.

Otherwise, they're VERY different schools. Northwestern has a preprofessional focus, significant Greek life, and Big Ten sports - in essence, it has extremely smart kids but its culture is pretty "normal" as far as college campuses go. Any smart kid at a state flagship school would honestly feel pretty comfortable at Northwestern. UChicago, on the other hand, is a hard core "learning for the sake of learning" academic campus with a very distinct intellectual and quirky atmosphere. They pride themselves on how brutally tough their academic courseload is for everyone.

As a lifelong Chicagoan, I know tons of people that went to both of these schools. Virtually all of the Northwestern grads *loved* their time on campus in a similar way that Michigan grads talk about Michigan or Notre Dame grads talk about Notre Dame. It's a really balanced school between top academics and social life similar to places like Vanderbilt and Duke. Meanwhile, the UChicago grads often talk about their experience the way that military people talk about boot camp (e.g. a lifechanging experience for a young person, but not necessarily fun). I think UChicago is starting to move away from the hard core nature lately as it has moved up the US News Rankings, but it's still a college with a very distinct personality where you're either going to fit in there or you're going to feel totally out of place.

One of my college roommates went there for grad school in math. He probably was fine with the academic boot camp.

(03-25-2021 04:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 11:47 AM)chess Wrote:  I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

I'm very curious - where would you rank the other Illinois publics on those lists?

UIUC and ISU both have well over half their student bodies from Chicagoland.

(03-25-2021 05:29 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

I'm very curious - where would you rank the other Illinois publics on those lists?

UIUC and ISU both have well over half their student bodies from Chicagoland.

Yeah, as I think about it more, it’s probably more fair to put it into tiers because the numerical ranking gets a bit granular. I think of UIUC as in the tier right below UChicago/Northwestern except for STEM/grad research (where it’s in the top tier).

ISU seems to be in the same tier as Loyola/DePaul/IIT/UIC - I think ISU does well for business and teacher education in particular. It has a lot of academic profile crossover with DePaul (whereas UIC is more STEM-heavy).

NIU would be in the next tier by itself - I think it has the advantage of being the closest residential directional school to the Chicago area.

SIU, EIU and WIU seem to all be in a similar tier where they are largely pulling from their respective regions in the state. I think they’re all in that Roosevelt/Columbia College tier.

(03-25-2021 06:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 05:29 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

I'm very curious - where would you rank the other Illinois publics on those lists?

UIUC and ISU both have well over half their student bodies from Chicagoland.

Yeah, as I think about it more, it’s probably more fair to put it into tiers because the numerical ranking gets a bit granular. I think of UIUC as in the tier right below UChicago/Northwestern except for STEM/grad research (where it’s in the top tier).

ISU seems to be in the same tier as Loyola/DePaul/IIT/UIC - I think ISU does well for business and teacher education in particular. It has a lot of academic profile crossover with DePaul (whereas UIC is more STEM-heavy).

NIU would be in the next tier by itself - I think it has the advantage of being the closest residential directional school to the Chicago area.

SIU, EIU and WIU seem to all be in a similar tier where they are largely pulling from their respective regions in the state. I think they’re all in that Roosevelt/Columbia College tier.

If we're talking tiers, I think Chicago is in a tier by itself for business/econ.

I tell my students that Chicago is just as far ahead of Harvard as Harvard is ahead of ISU. That's an exaggeration, but IMO it's not a large exaggeration. At least on the research side of business/econ.

(03-25-2021 04:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 11:47 AM)chess Wrote:  I disagree. How many Nobel Prizes does Northwestern hold?

Chicago is a special university among special universities.

I have nothing but praise for Northwestern, too. U of Chicago and Northwestern are not 1A and 1B.

Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

Well done, Frank. I was very curious as to your thoughts.

I taught at then-Robert Morris College (and later Robert Morris University before it was merged into Roosevelt University) in the late-1980s and was always fascinated by the Chicago "college/university culture" when I lived in the city.

I agree fully (for whatever that's worth) with your ranking of the "media and performing arts" category. A very good friend got his master's degree in film at Columbia College and he strongly enjoyed (and was challenged by) the program.

As to the "grad school research" category, I would not have thought UIC would have been No. 3 (but, and to be fair, I would not have known). Interesting.

I would think for a "liberal arts" category you might have DePaul rather high on the nine-school list.

And as to "well-manicured campuses in vibrant parts of the city," — and this is where I show my homerism — DePaul shines for me (though Loyola being on the lake is huge).

Thanks for taking the time to do your lists. I enjoyed.

(03-25-2021 08:29 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 12:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Please notice I included many metrics. Northwestern, unless I'm wrong, leads the U of Chicago in endowment, operating budget, sports and alumni numbers (which contributes to overall influence both in Chicago and nationally). It is simply a larger and more comprehensive university.

If basing the ranking strictly on academics, UofChicago leads.

I took a very broad approach in my ranking. You might be taking a very focused approach (which is fine).

I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

Well done, Frank. I was very curious as to your thoughts.

I taught at then-Robert Morris College (and later Robert Morris University before it was merged into Roosevelt University) in the late-1980s and was always fascinated by the Chicago "college/university culture" when I lived in the city.

I agree fully (for whatever that's worth) with your ranking of the "media and performing arts" category. A very good friend got his master's degree in film at Columbia College and he strongly enjoyed (and was challenged by) the program.

As to the "grad school research" category, I would not have thought UIC would have been No. 3 (but, and to be fair, I would not have known). Interesting.

I would think for a "liberal arts" category you might have DePaul rather high on the nine-school list.

And as to "well-manicured campuses in vibrant parts of the city," — and this is where I show my homerism — DePaul shines for me (though Loyola being on the lake is huge).

Thanks for taking the time to do your lists. I enjoyed.

Remember that UIC has one of the nation’s largest medical schools along with strong STEM departments overall. It’s a legit AAU-level school for research (even though it’s not an AAU member as of now). UCSD is a good institutional comparison for UIC (urban public university with very strong STEM programs and research capabilities, but not a rah-rah sports school).

(03-26-2021 08:51 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 08:29 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 04:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think it's sort of like comparing Harvard and MIT - they're super elite schools and you're going to get a different answer about who's best depending upon the sphere. Note that I'm just evaluating *undergrad* here (NOT grad schools).

In terms of prestige in academia and research, there's no question that UChicago is #1 and it's right up there with Harvard and Stanford to compete with #1 in the country in that area. The academic rigor of UChicago's curriculum is legendary and everyone in academia respects it mightily. That's why UChicago is such a great feeder to PhD programs across the board.

In terms of sending grads to prestigious professional fields (Wall Street finance and management consulting, Silicon Valley tech, DC politics, Hollywood entertainment), I'd argue that Northwestern *undergrad* beats UChicago in that area. Grad school is a different story (where a UChicago JD or MBA is a 100% killer credential), but Northwestern undergrad is right on par with the top Ivies in terms of being a feeder to prestige jobs after graduation. Now, part it this might be self-selection (where a larger proportion of the undergrad UChicago population went there specifically because it's more of a pathway to academia and research as opposed to a profession), but I also think that's where the personality and culture of the respective schools come into play. The employers that want really smart grads that are also very sociable *love* to recruit Northwestern (e.g. McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, political campaigns, etc.).

Once again, grad school is a different ballgame (as UChicago grad students will compete in those prestige professional fields as well as anyone). I'm just talking about undergrad here.

Good points, Frank.

I would be curious to get your top 10 in Chicago based on the various metrics I listed (and any others you deem fit, including graduate programs). I'm just a schmoe with a personal connection to Roosevelt and DePaul universities who loves Chicago and made this list for fun. You know your stuff and could do a much more accurate ranking. Feel free to do so.

I went to DePaul for law school, but I'd honestly put Loyola higher overall (with some caveats since it depends on the field):

OVERALL
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) Loyola
(4) IIT
(5) DePaul
(6) UIC
(7) Roosevelt
(8) Columbia College
(9) St. Xavier

BUSINESS/ECONOMICS
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) DePaul
(4) Loyola
(5)(t) IIT
(5)(t) UIC
(7)(t) Everyone else

STEM
(1) Northwestern
(2) UChicago
(3) IIT
(4) UIC
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

GRAD SCHOOL RESEARCH
(1) UChicago
(2) Northwestern
(3) UIC
(4) IIT
(5) Loyola
(6) DePaul
(7)(t) Everyone else

MEDIA AND PERFORMING ARTS
(1) Northwestern
(2) DePaul
(3) Columbia College
(4)(t) Everyone else

VISUAL ARTS
(1) School of the Art Institute of Chicago
(2)(t) Everyone else

Well done, Frank. I was very curious as to your thoughts.

I taught at then-Robert Morris College (and later Robert Morris University before it was merged into Roosevelt University) in the late-1980s and was always fascinated by the Chicago "college/university culture" when I lived in the city.

I agree fully (for whatever that's worth) with your ranking of the "media and performing arts" category. A very good friend got his master's degree in film at Columbia College and he strongly enjoyed (and was challenged by) the program.

As to the "grad school research" category, I would not have thought UIC would have been No. 3 (but, and to be fair, I would not have known). Interesting.

I would think for a "liberal arts" category you might have DePaul rather high on the nine-school list.

And as to "well-manicured campuses in vibrant parts of the city," — and this is where I show my homerism — DePaul shines for me (though Loyola being on the lake is huge).

Thanks for taking the time to do your lists. I enjoyed.

Remember that UIC has one of the nation’s largest medical schools along with strong STEM departments overall. It’s a legit AAU-level school for research (even though it’s not an AAU member as of now). UCSD is a good institutional comparison for UIC (urban public university with very strong STEM programs and research capabilities, but not a rah-rah sports school).

Some interesting info that I did not know. I visited the UIC campus a few times when I lived in Chicago. Very modernist form and function — which is both good and bad.

(03-26-2021 08:51 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Remember that UIC has one of the nation’s largest medical schools along with strong STEM departments overall. It’s a legit AAU-level school for research (even though it’s not an AAU member as of now). UCSD is a good institutional comparison for UIC (urban public university with very strong STEM programs and research capabilities, but not a rah-rah sports school).

Imo it all goes back to UIC's founding and how they came to be. A few decades after U of I was chartered they opened a graduate branch campus (mostly medical related) in Chicago towards the end of the 1800s. Nothing happened after that until after WWII, when what would become UIC was founded as a two-year feeder into UIUC at Navy Pier until they eventually got their own campus a little while later in its current location (which until recently didn't have much campus housing). Even though it wasn't technically a JUCO, the initial status as a two-year temp school and eventual development of a non-residential campus gave it the stigma of being a lame commuter college for undergrad (with solid grad programs once they merged with the original U of I graduate school in the eighties). That lack of local connection meant it was very easy for the local pro sports teams to overshadow them since they were so close by.

In an alternate universe UIC undergrad was chartered by the state at the same time as the grad campus, or as a municipal college. Probably wouldn't have been in the same West Loop location (which is red hot today but was pretty dumpy for years) since the land was taken and eminent domain wasn't as strong back then if I'm not mistaken. Would've probably wound up getting founded in the far north/west parts of the city where there was land (near Oak Park/Evanston) since the south side was developed earlier on. May have developed a rep and athletic program similar to Pitt/Cincinnati in that case instead of well, UIC.