(03-26-2020 01:17 PM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:51 PM)debragga Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 08:25 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(03-24-2020 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  What's amazing to me is that "seemingly" intelligence people, who are Trump supporters, don't believe he can do wrong. He did tell us he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care. I now believe he was right when he made that claim.

Look, I don't care for the guy, but we've got much bigger structural problems than a tiny pandemic response office.

As much as people like to say that all nations are in this together, everyone is in it for themselves in procuring their own critical medical equipment and supplies. Do you think since the CCP covered the virus up and allowed infected people to travel the world they'll be nice and give us some of the respirators that they produce? Hell, no.

Also, our health care system as a whole needs broad and systemic changes to the health care system and I'll just say they're not going to happen whether the next president is the 45th or the 46th.

And the only person trying to fix it can’t make it out of the primary. People just don’t want good health care I guess.

Why would you make such a remark? Without question, we have the best health care in the world. This is a good time to suggest you spend more time studying before speaking or posting. And the only person who is trying to fix is who?

we do not have the best healthcare in the world. not even close.

If anything, I'll take the guaranteed nationalized healthcare in South Korea, Singapore, Japan, so forth.

He said it wrong. We have the best healthcare money can buy. It all depends on how much money you have.

(03-26-2020 01:17 PM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:51 PM)debragga Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 08:25 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(03-24-2020 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  What's amazing to me is that "seemingly" intelligence people, who are Trump supporters, don't believe he can do wrong. He did tell us he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care. I now believe he was right when he made that claim.

Look, I don't care for the guy, but we've got much bigger structural problems than a tiny pandemic response office.

As much as people like to say that all nations are in this together, everyone is in it for themselves in procuring their own critical medical equipment and supplies. Do you think since the CCP covered the virus up and allowed infected people to travel the world they'll be nice and give us some of the respirators that they produce? Hell, no.

Also, our health care system as a whole needs broad and systemic changes to the health care system and I'll just say they're not going to happen whether the next president is the 45th or the 46th.

And the only person trying to fix it can’t make it out of the primary. People just don’t want good health care I guess.

Why would you make such a remark? Without question, we have the best health care in the world. This is a good time to suggest you spend more time studying before speaking or posting. And the only person who is trying to fix is who?

Worldwide our health care is ranked in the 30’s. We have access to the best medicines and doctors but in terms of access we are low. Inevitably at the end of this outbreak the deaths will skew more towards the level of income someone makes

(03-25-2020 11:54 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It’s been around long enough that chances are decent someone on this forum had it and got over it without knowing.

My kids' small school got ravaged by some unknown flu-like bug back in early January (coincidentally, after two families went to China and Korea to see grandparents over Christmas). One week, less than half the students were in school. In our household, we all had dry coughs, fevers, aching, the whole deal. One of my daughter's friends was so sick her mom took her to the doc but she tested negative for flu. With rest, she got better in a few days. This was about a week before the first confirmed case in the US and two weeks before the China travel ban. No one was doing any testing for this virus at the time.

My wife and the other moms have been talking on FB and are convinced we all got Wuhan'ed.

On a related note, Oxford (UK) researchers announced yesterday that they suspect half of all Brits have already been infected and recovered. They are currently looking for a way to test enough people to prove or reject their hypothesis. This would also line up with the accidental petri-dish that was the Diamond Princess cruise ship where 100% of the population was exposed and tested, but 80% were not infected, 60% of those infected never showed any symptoms, and the population-wide death rate is 0.2%. Also, this winter was the worst "flu" season for deaths in years, maybe it wasn't the flu?

While its encouraging to hear and all makes perfect sense, I'm dubious because there was not, that I'm aware at least, a strain on hospitals until now.

(03-26-2020 01:17 PM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:51 PM)debragga Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 08:25 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(03-24-2020 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  What's amazing to me is that "seemingly" intelligence people, who are Trump supporters, don't believe he can do wrong. He did tell us he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care. I now believe he was right when he made that claim.

Look, I don't care for the guy, but we've got much bigger structural problems than a tiny pandemic response office.

As much as people like to say that all nations are in this together, everyone is in it for themselves in procuring their own critical medical equipment and supplies. Do you think since the CCP covered the virus up and allowed infected people to travel the world they'll be nice and give us some of the respirators that they produce? Hell, no.

Also, our health care system as a whole needs broad and systemic changes to the health care system and I'll just say they're not going to happen whether the next president is the 45th or the 46th.

And the only person trying to fix it can’t make it out of the primary. People just don’t want good health care I guess.

Why would you make such a remark? Without question, we have the best health care in the world. This is a good time to suggest you spend more time studying before speaking or posting. And the only person who is trying to fix is who?

The best health care in the world serves the people of the country, not just those who can afford it. And take a wild guess as to who the one trying to fix it is.

(03-26-2020 03:37 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 11:54 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It’s been around long enough that chances are decent someone on this forum had it and got over it without knowing.

My kids' small school got ravaged by some unknown flu-like bug back in early January (coincidentally, after two families went to China and Korea to see grandparents over Christmas). One week, less than half the students were in school. In our household, we all had dry coughs, fevers, aching, the whole deal. One of my daughter's friends was so sick her mom took her to the doc but she tested negative for flu. With rest, she got better in a few days. This was about a week before the first confirmed case in the US and two weeks before the China travel ban. No one was doing any testing for this virus at the time.

My wife and the other moms have been talking on FB and are convinced we all got Wuhan'ed.

On a related note, Oxford (UK) researchers announced yesterday that they suspect half of all Brits have already been infected and recovered. They are currently looking for a way to test enough people to prove or reject their hypothesis. This would also line up with the accidental petri-dish that was the Diamond Princess cruise ship where 100% of the population was exposed and tested, but 80% were not infected, 60% of those infected never showed any symptoms, and the population-wide death rate is 0.2%. Also, this winter was the worst "flu" season for deaths in years, maybe it wasn't the flu?

While its encouraging to hear and all makes perfect sense, I'm dubious because there was not, that I'm aware at least, a strain on hospitals until now.

The strain on the hospitals, in part, has been created by the media hype of this virus. Before when you had those symptoms you stayed home for a few days, recovered, and went on with it, now people are freaking out thinking it’s a death sentence and head to the hospital and overload the system.

(03-26-2020 06:49 PM)debragga Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 01:17 PM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:51 PM)debragga Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 08:25 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(03-24-2020 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  What's amazing to me is that "seemingly" intelligence people, who are Trump supporters, don't believe he can do wrong. He did tell us he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care. I now believe he was right when he made that claim.

Look, I don't care for the guy, but we've got much bigger structural problems than a tiny pandemic response office.

As much as people like to say that all nations are in this together, everyone is in it for themselves in procuring their own critical medical equipment and supplies. Do you think since the CCP covered the virus up and allowed infected people to travel the world they'll be nice and give us some of the respirators that they produce? Hell, no.

Also, our health care system as a whole needs broad and systemic changes to the health care system and I'll just say they're not going to happen whether the next president is the 45th or the 46th.

And the only person trying to fix it can’t make it out of the primary. People just don’t want good health care I guess.

Why would you make such a remark? Without question, we have the best health care in the world. This is a good time to suggest you spend more time studying before speaking or posting. And the only person who is trying to fix is who?

The best health care in the world serves the people of the country, not just those who can afford it. And take a wild guess as to who the one trying to fix it is.

Cuba has an amazing health care system. Much better than the US. 15% of the Cuban population has a car. The average annual income is around $1,200 US $ per year. Not bad! Guess their a little tight paying for that fantastic health care system. If you plan early you can take a vacation to Disney Land before you die. You self righteous folk!

Here's the reality. When we as a country make the decision that health care is more important than the life styles we enjoy the system will change. The skinny is IT WILL HAPPEN. When someone finally cures cancer FOR EXAMPLE we will all reap the benefits and poor fella that discovers the cure will be hung as a traitor for not letting us have it for free. It is our circumstance and it is the future. Enjoy free health care but remember we're in debt up to our arses. Your life style as we know it will change.

(03-26-2020 03:37 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 11:54 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It’s been around long enough that chances are decent someone on this forum had it and got over it without knowing.

My kids' small school got ravaged by some unknown flu-like bug back in early January (coincidentally, after two families went to China and Korea to see grandparents over Christmas). One week, less than half the students were in school. In our household, we all had dry coughs, fevers, aching, the whole deal. One of my daughter's friends was so sick her mom took her to the doc but she tested negative for flu. With rest, she got better in a few days. This was about a week before the first confirmed case in the US and two weeks before the China travel ban. No one was doing any testing for this virus at the time.

My wife and the other moms have been talking on FB and are convinced we all got Wuhan'ed.

On a related note, Oxford (UK) researchers announced yesterday that they suspect half of all Brits have already been infected and recovered. They are currently looking for a way to test enough people to prove or reject their hypothesis. This would also line up with the accidental petri-dish that was the Diamond Princess cruise ship where 100% of the population was exposed and tested, but 80% were not infected, 60% of those infected never showed any symptoms, and the population-wide death rate is 0.2%. Also, this winter was the worst "flu" season for deaths in years, maybe it wasn't the flu?

While its encouraging to hear and all makes perfect sense, I'm dubious because there was not, that I'm aware at least, a strain on hospitals until now.

The theory behind that study is that for every 1000 cases, 1 requires hospitalization. If what we know about hospitalization rates remain true (It takes multiple days for serious illness and weeks for a critical one, than the numbers begin to make some sense.

I'm not sure I get behind the idea that 50 million people in the UK have already had the virus, but I can definitely get behind the figure that over 10 million in the US have.

(Side note if the number of 1-1000 is true, that would mean that NY has close to 2 million cases right now)

(03-26-2020 07:01 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 03:37 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 11:54 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It’s been around long enough that chances are decent someone on this forum had it and got over it without knowing.

My kids' small school got ravaged by some unknown flu-like bug back in early January (coincidentally, after two families went to China and Korea to see grandparents over Christmas). One week, less than half the students were in school. In our household, we all had dry coughs, fevers, aching, the whole deal. One of my daughter's friends was so sick her mom took her to the doc but she tested negative for flu. With rest, she got better in a few days. This was about a week before the first confirmed case in the US and two weeks before the China travel ban. No one was doing any testing for this virus at the time.

My wife and the other moms have been talking on FB and are convinced we all got Wuhan'ed.

On a related note, Oxford (UK) researchers announced yesterday that they suspect half of all Brits have already been infected and recovered. They are currently looking for a way to test enough people to prove or reject their hypothesis. This would also line up with the accidental petri-dish that was the Diamond Princess cruise ship where 100% of the population was exposed and tested, but 80% were not infected, 60% of those infected never showed any symptoms, and the population-wide death rate is 0.2%. Also, this winter was the worst "flu" season for deaths in years, maybe it wasn't the flu?

While its encouraging to hear and all makes perfect sense, I'm dubious because there was not, that I'm aware at least, a strain on hospitals until now.

The strain on the hospitals, in part, has been created by the media hype of this virus. Before when you had those symptoms you stayed home for a few days, recovered, and went on with it, now people are freaking out thinking it’s a death sentence and head to the hospital and overload the system.

This is true. Memphis has supposedly 198 cases right now, but the wait in the ER as of right now is 6 hours to get seen.

The problem is not only media related, its health care related. The Media have scared a lot of people into thinking that this thing is extremely deadly. Believing that to be the case anyone with a cough right now is running to the doctor. Well, in large cities like say New York, a sizeable number of people don't have health insurance. That means, they likely can't afford the number of Physician offices out there, most of whom would require an up front payment to be seen. So as a result they go to the one place they know they won't have to pay to be seen, the hospital. The result is Long lines of people desperate to see a doctor for a minor illness, and the people who actually really need to get seen have to wait and end up taking a turn for the worse.

There's an opposite side effect for physician offices. Stay at home orders and fear of getting sick have reduced the number of visitors to PCP and Urgent Care Centers, with milder cases opting for tele-med options. That's a huge sudden loss of income for those places and could result in layoffs if this thing goes for much longer.

It's apparent that our system is not set up to deal with a pandemic with over crowding at ER's and urgent cares. Particularly given the fact that we already have a shortage of physicians. That's an entirely different conversation.

Again you have to make a decision. How much should be changed to address the disparity as a result of a pandemic?

Just for example. Public universities stand to lose a third of their income as a result of the pandemic if not more. States who fund them have nooo money. Be careful what you ask for. What are we willing to give up?

(03-26-2020 08:26 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  It's apparent that our system is not set up to deal with a pandemic with over crowding at ER's and urgent cares. Particularly given the fact that we already have a shortage of physicians. That's an entirely different conversation.

Again you have to make a decision. How much should be changed to address the disparity as a result of a pandemic?

Just for example. Public universities stand to lose a third of their income as a result of the pandemic if not more. States who fund them have nooo money. Be careful what you ask for. What are we willing to give up?

Which is why Trump is so eager to reopen economy.

(03-26-2020 08:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 08:26 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  It's apparent that our system is not set up to deal with a pandemic with over crowding at ER's and urgent cares. Particularly given the fact that we already have a shortage of physicians. That's an entirely different conversation.

Again you have to make a decision. How much should be changed to address the disparity as a result of a pandemic?

Just for example. Public universities stand to lose a third of their income as a result of the pandemic if not more. States who fund them have nooo money. Be careful what you ask for. What are we willing to give up?

Which is why Trump is so eager to reopen economy.

Wash your hands. Stay at home.

(03-26-2020 02:19 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 01:17 PM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:51 PM)debragga Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 08:25 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(03-24-2020 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  What's amazing to me is that "seemingly" intelligence people, who are Trump supporters, don't believe he can do wrong. He did tell us he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care. I now believe he was right when he made that claim.

Look, I don't care for the guy, but we've got much bigger structural problems than a tiny pandemic response office.

As much as people like to say that all nations are in this together, everyone is in it for themselves in procuring their own critical medical equipment and supplies. Do you think since the CCP covered the virus up and allowed infected people to travel the world they'll be nice and give us some of the respirators that they produce? Hell, no.

Also, our health care system as a whole needs broad and systemic changes to the health care system and I'll just say they're not going to happen whether the next president is the 45th or the 46th.

And the only person trying to fix it can’t make it out of the primary. People just don’t want good health care I guess.

Why would you make such a remark? Without question, we have the best health care in the world. This is a good time to suggest you spend more time studying before speaking or posting. And the only person who is trying to fix is who?

we do not have the best healthcare in the world. not even close.

If anything, I'll take the guaranteed nationalized healthcare in South Korea, Singapore, Japan, so forth.

Bet I know what country you would choose for major surgary.

(03-26-2020 08:42 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 08:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 08:26 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  It's apparent that our system is not set up to deal with a pandemic with over crowding at ER's and urgent cares. Particularly given the fact that we already have a shortage of physicians. That's an entirely different conversation.

Again you have to make a decision. How much should be changed to address the disparity as a result of a pandemic?

Just for example. Public universities stand to lose a third of their income as a result of the pandemic if not more. States who fund them have nooo money. Be careful what you ask for. What are we willing to give up?

Which is why Trump is so eager to reopen economy.

Wash your hands. Stay at home.

I doubt I’ll be able to sit here for more than a couple weeks before I start taking risks personally. Sitting alone and staring at walls can only go for so long before one goes stir crazy. Especially when you account for the fact that 99 percent of these cases end up with no or mild symptoms

I lose a thousand dollars in income every month schools are closed. I’ve got enough saved to make it a while but if I’m unable to find a way to make that up by June 30 I’ll be unable to pay my bills. At some point I’m just going to have to take risks

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visua...-datapack/

Italy has crossed the doubling every 3 days trendline.

US mortality rate is half of the global average.

Looking for some silver lining with this thing.

(03-27-2020 09:26 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  https://informationisbeautiful.net/visua...-datapack/

Italy has crossed the doubling every 3 days trendline.

US mortality rate is half of the global average.

Looking for some silver lining with this thing.

I’m not even sure our mortality rates are accurate. Best guess is we’re missing 85-90 percent of actual cases because symptoms are so mild no one reports it. That would indicate over a million cases nationally with a death rate of somewhere between .2 and .5 percent

I’m focusing on countries like Iceland which has a large testing program and has indicated that almost half the cases have few to no symptoms and resolve without someone noticing

Italy is a terrible judge because they don’t test regularly and haven’t bothered to try and catch up

I agree all mortality rates will continue to decline.

Can we start moving in the direction of getting things moving again???

(03-27-2020 10:02 AM)Usajags Wrote:  Can we start moving in the direction of getting things moving again???

This is my point. I understand the need to regionally enforce social distancing depending on how the virus is spreading the idea that some are proposing of no sports for a year with limited outdoor contact and mostly work at home orders? Unless you have an amazing family that just loves spending time together few would be able to follow such orders for long.

Give it a couple weeks than start opening things back up