The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(02-19-2020 12:27 PM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 08:42 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 03:03 PM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 01:58 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Are you laughing because an opinion was substantiated and that makes you uncomfortable?

Maybe hes laughing because you're using 247Sports' opinion as FACTUAL INFORMATION after being told so many times by posters here that their rankings are horse poop...or maybe that just applies to football LMAO

I guess 247Sports is now the ultimate truth.

You do realize that every rating system is a combination of opinions, right? My point is that rating systems are how people determine that a player is "highly rated." My statement that JJ is better than BT at bringing in "highly rated" recruits requires that those recruits are "highly rated" by various recruitment rating services relative to previous ODU recruits. Providing an example (and the only example I know that has a historical function) to support my statement is logical and appropriate.

Your opinion about the merits of the rating services is, quite frankly, inconsequential. I, too, believe that rating services are overrated at this level and have said as much for years. When Razor Ramen and his ilk were complaining more than a decade ago that BT didn't recruit enough 3-star players like VCU, I was on the other said arguing that stars don't matter--it only matters how a player develops and contributes at the collegiate level.

My point in bringing all of this up is that BT's detractors (Ramen and the like) used one criteria to bash BT, but now they want to move the goalposts for JJ because they got what they thought they wanted and they're still not happy.

So even though you agree its garbage, thats all you have so you're referencing it. Understood.

I would like to reference ESPN and their rankings of our previous players. Surprise, they dont come close to comparing to 247's...

ESPN adjusts their recruiting rankings after kids sign. They're not all that reliable. We've had several kids who were unranked one day and then 2-3 stars after they sign with us on ESPN. Is that better than 247, in your opinion?

Also, 247 is a composite ranking. It aggregates many other ranking websites. Averages are likely more accurate than outliers, in most cases.

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 04:37 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Damn, I guess Kalu sucks.

By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 04:37 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Damn, I guess Kalu sucks.

By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

Here comes the crowd that says all of our program heights and weights are bull crap but everyone else’s are right on. Haha. It’s like clockwork. All the same arguments season after season.

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 04:37 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Damn, I guess Kalu sucks.

By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

The most recent example, since it's fresh, would be the home game against UTEP. Odigie is also a sophmore, also 6'9" 255lbs and did quite well against Kalu. However he seemed more offensive than defensive. I'm not sure if that helps your argument or Don's to be quite honest.

The other problem is a meta one that I think you keep ignoring, not sure if you just don't give it any merit or if you miss it (I don't think you miss it). But the meta argument is your quote below:

"Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to?"

And I just have to ask, why are you allowing to settle to the norms of this conference and our schedule (our best opponents were Illinois and 6th place VCU, nobody else is top 100)? You agree that CUSA is not a great basketball conference, right? Shouldn't we be aiming to be better than that? So when you ask the above question, you are kind of missing the overall complaint many here are having, that our current program under JJ really isn't that great compared to the teams we once had when the program was better. We are kind of arguing a pointless argument, it shouldn't matter if Kalu can match up against anyone we play if the moment we step out of conference we are going to get steam rolled like we did vs Purdue.

Kalu is a sophomore. The fact that he's as good or better than practically every Junior or Senior he's faced this year is meaningful.

(02-19-2020 03:17 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

The most recent example, since it's fresh, would be the home game against UTEP. Odigie is also a sophmore, also 6'9" 255lbs and did quite well against Kalu. However he seemed more offensive than defensive. I'm not sure if that helps your argument or Don's to be quite honest.

The other problem is a meta one that I think you keep ignoring, not sure if you just don't give it any merit or if you miss it (I don't think you miss it). But the meta argument is your quote below:

"Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to?"

And I just have to ask, why are you allowing to settle to the norms of this conference and our schedule (our best opponents were Illinois and 6th place VCU, nobody else is top 100)? You agree that CUSA is not a great basketball conference, right? Shouldn't we be aiming to be better than that? So when you ask the above question, you are kind of missing the overall complaint many here are having, that our current program under JJ really isn't that great compared to the teams we once had when the program was better. We are kind of arguing a pointless argument, it shouldn't matter if Kalu can match up against anyone we play if the moment we step out of conference we are going to get steam rolled like we did vs Purdue.

Odigie had 7 points and 1 rebound in 20 minutes.

I would like better skilled big players. (thought I think Kalu is very skilled but needs to stay out of foul trouble). I would love for us to have great players all across the board at every position.

The argument gets tired that Kalu is not a "center." Yes, people acknowledge that we aren't facing larger players that dominate us in the paint. But, if you want to go with some of the best teams in the country they also don't have traditional centers either (for the most part). And the teams that do have them playing a minor role except for rare cases.

Does anyone watch Dayton for an example and say they need a center? Their big guy plays 10 minutes a game. The majority of teams primary big player is around Kalu's size. Back in the 80s/90s teams played a traditional 1 through 5 lineup and had a center with a back to the basket and often times a power forward. There are very few examples of dominant big players that are 6-10 or taller and 250 or heavier.

A few things happened; smaller teams started running them out of the gym by putting these centers in pick n roll situations. Teams like Duke spread the floor and shot 3s and teams figured out that post ups were inefficient. They looked for more spacing/3 point shooting with mobile players. Thats has warped into more positionless basketball.....heck, we played some with a 6-4 "4" in Wade and a 6-4 "5" in Carver at times (that played well together). We need better players; we don't need bigger players. The reason we aren't good this year isnt bc we are losing battles inside, it's because we cannot shoot a lick.

I could write an essay on it, but don't feel like it :) The thought that Kalu is a power forward and not a center is dumb.

(02-19-2020 03:17 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

The most recent example, since it's fresh, would be the home game against UTEP. Odigie is also a sophmore, also 6'9" 255lbs and did quite well against Kalu. However he seemed more offensive than defensive. I'm not sure if that helps your argument or Don's to be quite honest.

The other problem is a meta one that I think you keep ignoring, not sure if you just don't give it any merit or if you miss it (I don't think you miss it). But the meta argument is your quote below:

"Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to?"

And I just have to ask, why are you allowing to settle to the norms of this conference and our schedule (our best opponents were Illinois and 6th place VCU, nobody else is top 100)? You agree that CUSA is not a great basketball conference, right? Shouldn't we be aiming to be better than that? So when you ask the above question, you are kind of missing the overall complaint many here are having, that our current program under JJ really isn't that great compared to the teams we once had when the program was better. We are kind of arguing a pointless argument, it shouldn't matter if Kalu can match up against anyone we play if the moment we step out of conference we are going to get steam rolled like we did vs Purdue.

Hit the nail on the head. + to you.

Jason Wade is our best player. All over the floor. He has the right makeup mentally and physically. Hope he bounces back. Kalu is talented and is aggressive. Just needs to stay on the court. I like Reece, very inconsistent though. His good is very good and his bad is really bad. The only good thing to come from Wade being out are Reece’s minutes. Would love to see something from Hunter at the end of the year. Sophomore class is talented and all have shown improvement, just need more growth. Wade’s jumper looked soo much better. He played some really nice games before his injury.

(02-19-2020 03:45 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Jason Wade is our best player. All over the floor. He has the right makeup mentally and physically. Hope he bounces back. Kalu is talented and is aggressive. Just needs to stay on the court. I like Reece, very inconsistent though. His good is very good and his bad is really bad. The only good thing to come from Wade being out are Reece’s minutes. Would love to see something from Hunter at the end of the year. Sophomore class is talented and all have shown improvement, just need more growth. Wade’s jumper looked soo much better. He played some really nice games before his injury.

Sad part is, I'm thinking Wade won't be the same. Not many are after that injury. Not even Odell.

(02-19-2020 03:54 PM)mac Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:45 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Jason Wade is our best player. All over the floor. He has the right makeup mentally and physically. Hope he bounces back. Kalu is talented and is aggressive. Just needs to stay on the court. I like Reece, very inconsistent though. His good is very good and his bad is really bad. The only good thing to come from Wade being out are Reece’s minutes. Would love to see something from Hunter at the end of the year. Sophomore class is talented and all have shown improvement, just need more growth. Wade’s jumper looked soo much better. He played some really nice games before his injury.

Sad part is, I'm thinking Wade won't be the same. Not many are after that injury. Not even Odell.

Was his injury announced?

Recovery has come a long way since Odell played.

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 04:37 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Damn, I guess Kalu sucks.

By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

First box score I checked... Illinois is an example of a team we played with a true center. (7'0" 290 lbs). Kalu had 0 points, 0 rebounds, and 5 fouls in 6 minutes. Carver had 0 points, 2 rebounds (0 offensive) and 4 fouls in 20 minutes.

(02-19-2020 04:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:22 AM)ODUDon Wrote:  By "Big men" I meant centers. Kalu is not a center. He's a power forward that has shown flashes of brilliance.

What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

First box score I checked... Illinois is an example of a team we played with a true center. (7'0" 290 lbs). Kalu had 0 points, 0 rebounds, and 5 fouls in 6 minutes. Carver had 0 points, 2 rebounds (0 offensive) and 4 fouls in 20 minutes.

There you go. There is 1 good one. Kofi is good. 11 points and 9 rebounds.

(02-19-2020 04:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 04:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:19 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 12:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  What are the requirements to play center?

The ability to match up with other centers and at 6'8" & 235lbs, Kalu is undersized to fill that role much of the time. He's reminds me of Kenny Gattison who was a great PF.

Have we played any centers this year that Kalu and Caver have not been able to matchup to? I can't remember any. How many guys have we even gone up against that had a non stiff guy 6-9 or taller? I can't remember a game where the opposing teams big man dominated Kalu due to his size. Can you reference a few?

At 6-8, 235, I'd imaged Kalu is as big or bigger than many of the players he's facing. THis thought that we need a 6-10 guy to matchup with other teams really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is Santos from VCU undersized? Osaghae? Muhammed? Williams? Heck, Carver is out rebounding the conference and he's 6-4 in heels.

I've asked this several times and no one has provided an answer to how other teams have larger players that dominate us down low.

First box score I checked... Illinois is an example of a team we played with a true center. (7'0" 290 lbs). Kalu had 0 points, 0 rebounds, and 5 fouls in 6 minutes. Carver had 0 points, 2 rebounds (0 offensive) and 4 fouls in 20 minutes.

There you go. There is 1 good one. Kofi is good. 11 points and 9 rebounds.

W&M's centers (7'0" Vliet and 6'10" Knight) combined for 27 pts, 18 boards on a night when Kula had 4 pts, 1 reb.

UofR's center Grant Golden (6'10") had 19 points, 7 boards to KE's 11 points and 6 rebs.

The whole argument that basketball statistician Giles makes when he says that so and so only scored 7 points and had 1 rebound in 20 minutes is hardly a winning argument. If you simply rely upon stats instead of what you are seeing on the court then you are missing probably 90% of what you would need to know to access a team's needs.

1 - What stat tells everybody how many times ODU doubled teamed or triple teamed the ball when it was thrown into the opposing post player down low? You can't very well sell the idea that Kalu or Carver "held" the guy to that scoring total when in fact he had a lot of assistance.

2 - What stat tells everybody how many times opposing teams doubled or triple teamed either Carver or Kalu when they got the ball on a post entry pass? I'd venture to say that our starting center (Carver) almost never gets doubled because the opposing center is usually bigger and can handle him alone. Plus Carver is not very good offensively down low (which is part of ODU's problem). Kalu I would guess seldom warrants a double team from the opposition either. The lack of a consistent double team being drawn from our centers is telling - but stats aren't going to say it for you.

I don't know how much basketball Giles watches but he is missing a lot if he doesn't see other teams posting up their bigs many times during the game. In the VCU / Dayton game last night both teams did it frequently. Sure they didn't do it every time down the floor. They don't have to. They have a well rounded offense, but make no mistake ..... the post entry pass to the big man is a very real part of their half court offense. If we had someone of the caliber of 6'-9" Toppin or 6'-7" 250 lb. Santos-Silva we would too.

Hey I see coach John Beilein is available now!

(02-20-2020 08:02 AM)mac Wrote:  Hey I see coach John Beilein is available now!

Said it the other day. Shoot for it lol

(02-20-2020 08:33 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:02 AM)mac Wrote:  Hey I see coach John Beilein is available now!

Said it the other day. Shoot for it lol

Great college coach. Probably the frontrunner to replace Shaka.

(02-20-2020 08:40 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:33 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:02 AM)mac Wrote:  Hey I see coach John Beilein is available now!

Said it the other day. Shoot for it lol

Great college coach. Probably the frontrunner to replace Shaka.

Probably wrapped up already

Shaka to Norfolk........?

(02-20-2020 09:09 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:40 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:33 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:02 AM)mac Wrote:  Hey I see coach John Beilein is available now!

Said it the other day. Shoot for it lol

Great college coach. Probably the frontrunner to replace Shaka.

Probably wrapped up already

Shaka to Norfolk........?

haha beat me to it.