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(10-01-2018 08:19 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-30-2018 12:18 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(09-30-2018 08:44 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-29-2018 02:31 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  We seem to be locked into the lower tier in the NCHC, I don't see that changing with all these new faces. 4th is probably as good as we'll ever do with the likes of SCSU and UND in the conference. 4th-5th this season-maybe, depending on how fast we gel.

What new faces? We return almost everyone.

Lots of new freshmen in key positions.

We have lots of new Freshman, but only lost 4 seniors. Most of our team from last year is back. The freshman are just added depth for the most part.

We also get Colt Conrad and Wade Allison back from injury... so there's that.

(10-01-2018 08:22 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(10-01-2018 08:19 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-30-2018 12:18 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(09-30-2018 08:44 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-29-2018 02:31 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  We seem to be locked into the lower tier in the NCHC, I don't see that changing with all these new faces. 4th is probably as good as we'll ever do with the likes of SCSU and UND in the conference. 4th-5th this season-maybe, depending on how fast we gel.

What new faces? We return almost everyone.

Lots of new freshmen in key positions.

We have lots of new Freshman, but only lost 4 seniors. Most of our team from last year is back. The freshman are just added depth for the most part.

We also get Colt Conrad and Wade Allison back from injury... so there's that.

CC and WA are great, but we have a lot of talent in this conference. UND and SCSU have end to end talent like that, almost every season.

(10-01-2018 11:16 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(10-01-2018 08:22 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(10-01-2018 08:19 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-30-2018 12:18 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(09-30-2018 08:44 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  What new faces? We return almost everyone.

Lots of new freshmen in key positions.

We have lots of new Freshman, but only lost 4 seniors. Most of our team from last year is back. The freshman are just added depth for the most part.

We also get Colt Conrad and Wade Allison back from injury... so there's that.

CC and WA are great, but we have a lot of talent in this conference. UND and SCSU have end to end talent like that, almost every season.

Just adding that, on top of this really good class and the returning guys that played to the end of last season we get two more huge pieces back from injury...

I personally think this team is loaded... if we get some good goaltending, stay healthy, play a little more disciplined in our own end and keep ourselves out of the box as much as possible we should do really well... I am going to make a BOLD prediction here... we end up SECOND in the NCHC by end of regular season...

I think this team should be very good, and maybe great. But we cant just be great. We need to bring it every week in this conference, and still may loose more than half of our games. Just the way it is. In some other conferences I think we would be the top dog, and finish first or second, with a great chance at an NCAA bid. Here? Who knows. Should be an interesting season. Hopefully in a good way.

(10-02-2018 02:41 PM)brovol Wrote:  I think this team should be very good, and maybe great. But we cant just be great. We need to bring it every week in this conference, and still may loose more than half of our games. Just the way it is. In some other conferences I think we would be the top dog, and finish first or second, with a great chance at an NCAA bid. Here? Who knows. Should be an interesting season. Hopefully in a good way.

I love this conference, but it isn't an easy one to win in. The competition is mighty tough. But I was hoping we'd make more of a play for the top two slots after this many years. We seem destined for 4# or 5# at best every year. Very frustrating.

(10-02-2018 03:30 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 02:41 PM)brovol Wrote:  I think this team should be very good, and maybe great. But we cant just be great. We need to bring it every week in this conference, and still may loose more than half of our games. Just the way it is. In some other conferences I think we would be the top dog, and finish first or second, with a great chance at an NCAA bid. Here? Who knows. Should be an interesting season. Hopefully in a good way.

I love this conference, but it isn't an easy one to win in. The competition is mighty tough. But I was hoping we'd make more of a play for the top two slots after this many years. We seem destined for 4# or 5# at best every year. Very frustrating.

As you know, with me you are preaching to the choir. This is a great conference; perhaps the best. But I think we make the NCAA's more in the other conference option. Regardless, this is where we are, so need to make the best of it. There are not that many teams in the NCHC, and all schools have great hockey programs, with a real commitment to being top level hockey schools. It will take a lot to get to and stay at the top. Because even the schools at the bottom are good. Its not just us, Miami was pretty high flying in terms of its program when it entered the NCHC, and it had some lean years too since then.

My prediction:

Continued inconsistent/below par goaltending keeps this team from climbing higher than 4th in the NCHC.

First round playoff loss in the NCAA.

Hope I am wrong.

If one of these goalies steps up and plays above average it could be an epic year for Bronco Hockey.

https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/03/nchc-lo...is-season/

Writers over at USCHO has us finishing six....they have CC at 4th.

(10-03-2018 09:00 AM)Broncodan Wrote:  https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/03/nchc-lo...is-season/

Writers over at USCHO has us finishing six....they have CC at 4th.

IF we finish 6th it's time for a coaching change. I like Murray and he's unquestionably a very smart hockey guy, but he hasn't translated that into a consistent winning program. A new younger coach with a hunger for winning might be the tonic we need, like Culhane was when he first came in.

It seems we're stuck with the facilities we have now, that's not likely to change owing to budget constraints. So it all gets back to attracting good players and molding them into a team. If Ferris State can get to the national semi-finals we sure as heck can, we have far more to offer than they do.

(10-03-2018 09:42 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:00 AM)Broncodan Wrote:  https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/03/nchc-lo...is-season/

Writers over at USCHO has us finishing six....they have CC at 4th.

IF we finish 6th it's time for a coaching change. I like Murray and he's unquestionably a very smart hockey guy, but he hasn't translated that into a consistent winning program. A new younger coach with a hunger for winning might be the tonic we need, like Culhane was when he first came in.

It seems we're stuck with the facilities we have now, that's not likely to change owing to budget constraints. So it all gets back to attracting good players and molding them into a team. If Ferris State can get to the national semi-finals we sure as heck can, we have far more to offer than they do.

I agree 10000%, its NCHC frozen faceoff / NCAA tourney run or bust this season, this is probably the most talented team Murray has had since being here, maybe besides the 2012-2013 team that won the CCHA champ and the 2016-17 team that laid an egg to Air Force in the first round.

Goaltending is key this year whether or not we make a deep run. I dont think we will have an issue putting the puck in the net, thats for sure.

(10-03-2018 09:42 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:00 AM)Broncodan Wrote:  https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/03/nchc-lo...is-season/

Writers over at USCHO has us finishing six....they have CC at 4th.

IF we finish 6th it's time for a coaching change. I like Murray and he's unquestionably a very smart hockey guy, but he hasn't translated that into a consistent winning program. A new younger coach with a hunger for winning might be the tonic we need, like Culhane was when he first came in.

It seems we're stuck with the facilities we have now, that's not likely to change owing to budget constraints. So it all gets back to attracting good players and molding them into a team. If Ferris State can get to the national semi-finals we sure as heck can, we have far more to offer than they do.

Ferris St has made a couple of runs in the NCAA, including getting to the finals, but it never would have happened had they been in a conference like the NCHC, because most likely Ferris wouldn't have even gotten to the tournament. Another point to make here though is that Ferris has made its runs with players who were far less heralded when they were recruited than most NCHC players. Hockey is hugely a "team" sport, where chemistry and system are more important to winning than individual talent.

Murray was great, and so was WMU, when we were in the CCHA. The team was inspired, well prepared, and worked well as a group. Murray also had some cool ideas now and then, when we watched and said, "wow, we are lucky to have him". The guy didn't get stupid over night.

If we were playing in another conference we would have more wins and winning streaks, we would be at or near the top of the league standings most of the time, more likelihood of NCAA bids, more program momentum and enthusiasm. Would we be playing to smaller crowds at away games? Yes. Would we have the opportunity to play against top level programs every week like we do now? No. Would being in a less sexy conference hurt recruiting? Maybe, and I'll go ahead and say probably; but I am not convinced that the difference in recruits would be as significant as what most folks here think (especially if we are finishing 4th-6th in the NCHC, which also hurts recruiting).

I know, I'm a broken record. But as of yet our history in the NCHC hasn't proven me wrong, and in fact, quite to the contrary. But I don't think our lack of success in this league is because we don't have a good enough coach. Most of the coaches in the NCHC would love to have a career in coaching half as good as Brian Murray.

(10-03-2018 10:20 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:42 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:00 AM)Broncodan Wrote:  https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/03/nchc-lo...is-season/

Writers over at USCHO has us finishing six....they have CC at 4th.

IF we finish 6th it's time for a coaching change. I like Murray and he's unquestionably a very smart hockey guy, but he hasn't translated that into a consistent winning program. A new younger coach with a hunger for winning might be the tonic we need, like Culhane was when he first came in.

It seems we're stuck with the facilities we have now, that's not likely to change owing to budget constraints. So it all gets back to attracting good players and molding them into a team. If Ferris State can get to the national semi-finals we sure as heck can, we have far more to offer than they do.

Ferris St has made a couple of runs in the NCAA, including getting to the finals, but it never would have happened had they been in a conference like the NCHC, because most likely Ferris wouldn't have even gotten to the tournament. Another point to make here though is that Ferris has made its runs with players who were far less heralded when they were recruited than most NCHC players. Hockey is hugely a "team" sport, where chemistry and system are more important to winning than individual talent.

Murray was great, and so was WMU, when we were in the CCHA. The team was inspired, well prepared, and worked well as a group. Murray also had some cool ideas now and then, when we watched and said, "wow, we are lucky to have him". The guy didn't get stupid over night.

If we were playing in another conference we would have more wins and winning streaks, we would be at or near the top of the league standings most of the time, more likelihood of NCAA bids, more program momentum and enthusiasm. Would we be playing to smaller crowds at away games? Yes. Would we have the opportunity to play against top level programs every week like we do now? No. Would being in a less sexy conference hurt recruiting? Maybe, and I'll go ahead and say probably; but I am not convinced that the difference in recruits would be as significant as what most folks here think (especially if we are finishing 4th-6th in the NCHC, which also hurts recruiting).

I know, I'm a broken record. But as of yet our history in the NCHC hasn't proven me wrong, and in fact, quite to the contrary. But I don't think our lack of success in this league is because we don't have a good enough coach. Most of the coaches in the NCHC would love to have a career in coaching half as good as Brian Murray.

Completely agree with you on the NCHC, it's a very tough conference to play in. But, being in the NCHC has also improved our game. Take the WMU team this season and put it up against the CCHA winning team from a few seasons ago and the NCHC team wins 9 games out of 10.

No question, playing regularly against UND, SCSU and UMD has improved our game. We're quantum jump better than we were in the CCHA from a player and team skill level.

But, the time has come to translate that skill improvements into wins. No way should we have been schooled by Air Force a couple of seasons back. On that day, on that ice, we didn't play at the level we should have and could have. That is a coaching failure and it's something a younger, hungrier coach might not have had.

Personally, I think that if the teams from our last couple years in the CCHA played the teams we had most years in the NCHC, the CCHA teams would win more than they lost. And frankly I don't care how many of our players end up in the NHL. I care how they do at WMU,and how the team does. I loved going to the Joe to watch us in the CCHA final four. Exciting stuff. That's what happens when you are competitive in a conference. Its fun, and school spirit rules for fans and players alike. When our football team went to the MACC at ford field, that was super fun stuff for all of us. I took my family and could not have had more fun if we were in the B10 championship game. Same with hockey. But when we are having just a 500 or less year, and finishing in the middle or bottom of the league standings, the enthusiasm is lost.

I don't necessarily agree that playing better teams every week makes us better. If you are not beating those teams it becomes counterproductive, as the team chemistry suffers. I get the idea that being in a better conference should ultimately raise the quality of the program; but tell that to the Kansas football team, or Vanderbilt, or Illinois. It becomes tough to drag yourself our of a bad situation sometimes. And then if you can, you then need to maintain that high level while competing against programs that are ten steps ahead of you in terms of facilities, history, fan base, capitol, etc. It aint easy keeping up with the Jones'. In every league there will always be the "haves" and the "have-nots". If you start a league with ten "haves", a portion of them will ultimately end up as "have-nots". To avoid that you better have the resources and commitment from the beginning, and enough to keep up and maintain at the same level as the top dogs in that league. Otherwise you become the Kansas football team, or one of several other examples in every conference anywhere.

When reading this USCHO article i had to stop and laugh more than a couple of times. First it's written by BIG TEN people who don't know crap outside the BIG TEN . They say how we crapped the bed after the mid of January but said nothing about us losing a couple of our best players right then . They have Kingston and Rome as our key freshman coming in who are both in the bottom half of our incoming freshmen , we have some high end boys coming in . So basically put they have NO clue of anything in relation to our team or conference . Take what they say as verbal diarea cause that's what it,s worth

(10-03-2018 11:15 AM)brovol Wrote:  Personally, I think that if the teams from our last couple years in the CCHA played the teams we had most years in the NCHC, the CCHA teams would win more than they lost. And frankly I don't care how many of our players end up in the NHL. I care how they do at WMU,and how the team does. I loved going to the Joe to watch us in the CCHA final four. Exciting stuff. That's what happens when you are competitive in a conference. Its fun, and school spirit rules for fans and players alike. When our football team went to the MACC at ford field, that was super fun stuff for all of us. I took my family and could not have had more fun if we were in the B10 championship game. Same with hockey. But when we are having just a 500 or less year, and finishing in the middle or bottom of the league standings, the enthusiasm is lost.

I don't necessarily agree that playing better teams every week makes us better. If you are not beating those teams it becomes counterproductive, as the team chemistry suffers. I get the idea that being in a better conference should ultimately raise the quality of the program; but tell that to the Kansas football team, or Vanderbilt, or Illinois. It becomes tough to drag yourself our of a bad situation sometimes. And then if you can, you then need to maintain that high level while competing against programs that are ten steps ahead of you in terms of facilities, history, fan base, capitol, etc. It aint easy keeping up with the Jones'. In every league there will always be the "haves" and the "have-nots". If you start a league with ten "haves", a portion of them will ultimately end up as "have-nots". To avoid that you better have the resources and commitment from the beginning, and enough to keep up and maintain at the same level as the top dogs in that league. Otherwise you become the Kansas football team, or one of several other examples in every conference anywhere.

We were in third last year before the injuries and finished in third the year before and will be in 3rd or 4th this year and could be 2nd 3rd if our goaltenders can just be average . You don't care about the NHL draft fine but the program sure the heck does . If you have top end drafted players it attracks top end talent and they sure the heck use that in there recruiting . It also helps in the funding of the team College hockey today vs 5-10 years ago is on a different level due to the explosion of hockey in the USA and the fact more high end EURO's are coming over . Thinking the old CCHA teams would beat the NCHC teams of today is just wrong their debth of players is not even close . And the amount of top end players is not close either and i'm talking about the whole NCHC not just us .

The grass is not always greener. Andy Murray is a fine head coach.

On a related topic, is there a specific incident that got Bill Wilkinson bounced?

(10-03-2018 01:08 PM)Sup Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 11:15 AM)brovol Wrote:  Personally, I think that if the teams from our last couple years in the CCHA played the teams we had most years in the NCHC, the CCHA teams would win more than they lost. And frankly I don't care how many of our players end up in the NHL. I care how they do at WMU,and how the team does. I loved going to the Joe to watch us in the CCHA final four. Exciting stuff. That's what happens when you are competitive in a conference. Its fun, and school spirit rules for fans and players alike. When our football team went to the MACC at ford field, that was super fun stuff for all of us. I took my family and could not have had more fun if we were in the B10 championship game. Same with hockey. But when we are having just a 500 or less year, and finishing in the middle or bottom of the league standings, the enthusiasm is lost.

I don't necessarily agree that playing better teams every week makes us better. If you are not beating those teams it becomes counterproductive, as the team chemistry suffers. I get the idea that being in a better conference should ultimately raise the quality of the program; but tell that to the Kansas football team, or Vanderbilt, or Illinois. It becomes tough to drag yourself our of a bad situation sometimes. And then if you can, you then need to maintain that high level while competing against programs that are ten steps ahead of you in terms of facilities, history, fan base, capitol, etc. It aint easy keeping up with the Jones'. In every league there will always be the "haves" and the "have-nots". If you start a league with ten "haves", a portion of them will ultimately end up as "have-nots". To avoid that you better have the resources and commitment from the beginning, and enough to keep up and maintain at the same level as the top dogs in that league. Otherwise you become the Kansas football team, or one of several other examples in every conference anywhere.

We were in third last year before the injuries and finished in third the year before and will be in 3rd or 4th this year and could be 2nd 3rd if our goaltenders can just be average . You don't care about the NHL draft fine but the program sure the heck does . If you have top end drafted players it attracks top end talent and they sure the heck use that in there recruiting . It also helps in the funding of the team College hockey today vs 5-10 years ago is on a different level due to the explosion of hockey in the USA and the fact more high end EURO's are coming over . Thinking the old CCHA teams would beat the NCHC teams of today is just wrong their debth of players is not even close . And the amount of top end players is not close either and i'm talking about the whole NCHC not just us .

Huh? Say you aren't a WMU alumni, please.

Rather than argue with this, I will simply say I believe my prior comments are valid. That will save me from making the mistake of getting into a dialog which will turn into something less about hockey, and more about grammar, sentence construction and syntax. Too often I find myself unable to stay in check, and I end up with a post loaded with sarcasm or backhanded insults. For some reason I suspect this could get that way. Instead, I will suggest that the substance of your points regarding hockey is every bit as excellent as the presentation of your argument.

(10-03-2018 01:33 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  The grass is not always greener. Andy Murray is a fine head coach.

On a related topic, is there a specific incident that got Bill Wilkinson bounced?

Did BW get bounced or leave on his own? I do remember that a few years after he left he took a HC job at Wayne State.
.

(10-03-2018 01:39 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 01:33 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  The grass is not always greener. Andy Murray is a fine head coach.

On a related topic, is there a specific incident that got Bill Wilkinson bounced?

Did BW get bounced or leave on his own? I do remember that a few years after he left he took a HC job at Wayne State.
.

There was some big house party involving his son, and other players on the team, and Bill owned the house. His son and another player were suspended, as was Bill. The team wasn't very good either. I think that may have led to the end for BW.

(10-03-2018 01:39 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 01:33 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  The grass is not always greener. Andy Murray is a fine head coach.

On a related topic, is there a specific incident that got Bill Wilkinson bounced?

Did BW get bounced or leave on his own? I do remember that a few years after he left he took a HC job at Wayne State.
.

I think he got bounced following a season where there was some off the ice issues with team members... including his son if I do recall... And I am not sure it was bounced or that WMU didn't re-up his contract.. and went with Culhane. Don't know the specifics...