(12-23-2017 09:31 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 09:01 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Every statue of every Roman General and Emperor was created to honor them. Do we need to analyze their biographies to see if they are saints by modern standards and then start smashing those that were not?

Does this apply to paintings? Busts? Presidential Libraries? Mausoleums? Memorial Stones? Dedication Plaques? Lee Chapel?

Does it apply to books written that praise Rommel, Forrest, Lee, Bomber Harris, or Harry Truman?

Buildings named to honor Robert Byrd? J. Edgar Hoover?

Do all the Jefferson Street addresses have to change?

What exactly are the rules of this cultural revolution and how extensive is it to be?

Can we just get a finalized list onstead of dragging this out?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

yep.....it's called genetic engineering via binary code.....

it's just not going to happen in our lifetime.....but it will one day....then it won't mean squawdouche

Someday these folks are going to get tge utopia they've been working for. Then it will turn on them and eat them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

(12-23-2017 09:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 09:31 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 09:01 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Every statue of every Roman General and Emperor was created to honor them. Do we need to analyze their biographies to see if they are saints by modern standards and then start smashing those that were not?

Does this apply to paintings? Busts? Presidential Libraries? Mausoleums? Memorial Stones? Dedication Plaques? Lee Chapel?

Does it apply to books written that praise Rommel, Forrest, Lee, Bomber Harris, or Harry Truman?

Buildings named to honor Robert Byrd? J. Edgar Hoover?

Do all the Jefferson Street addresses have to change?

What exactly are the rules of this cultural revolution and how extensive is it to be?

Can we just get a finalized list onstead of dragging this out?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

yep.....it's called genetic engineering via binary code.....

it's just not going to happen in our lifetime.....but it will one day....then it won't mean squawdouche

Someday these folks are going to get tge utopia they've been working for. Then it will turn on them and eat them.

Once they achieve their utopia they will complain about something else. It's all they do.

(12-23-2017 07:51 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 05:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 04:16 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 02:23 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  What I wrote today to brother in Blue & Gray:

If you think Nathan Bedford Forrest is a redemption story, that’s your business. Cheer it and spread your feeling about that. But the man did not deserve to be memorialized and he was memorialized by a city at a time where black people were second class “citizens” for his actions fighting for a traitorous group who rebelled against the country in order to keep slavery going; slavery which was the source of his wealth.

The history books... funny you say that. Don’t see you raising cane when states like Texas humanize the system of slavery which don’t describe the process with the true picture of how bad things were in their history books. There is a difference between history and monuments. Those statues of Forrest and Davis were hero worship of a symbolic nature. They were messages praising a period when Memphis had slavery and fought to keep it. No one is going to the National Civil Rights Museum and changing any information about the CSA and how it fought to keep slavery going. There just won’t be praise in a very public venue honoring these men for defending slavery.

You talk about underhanded. You know what is underhanded? When East and Middle Tennessee officials who cannot be elected by Memphians decide what is appropriate for the Citizens of Memphis to do with property owned by the Citizens of Memphis. Men who cannot suffer consequences at the ballot box who make a decision on something which will not affect any other areas of the state of Tennessee. All because of what is ultimately an undercurrent of racism. You know the reason they changed the law? Because the City of Memphis elected officials had the audacity to have a panel to publicly discuss whether the Confederate honoring city owned parks should be renamed because there had been a very vocal movement for years to change the names. They didn’t allow the COM to make its own determination to have people like you come in an explain why you disagreed. So when the city had to find an alternative way, that got UNANIMOUS support from the City Council (which has some white Repubs on it BTW) it was actually a legal move that works around the Tennessee Historical Commission which was empowered just to stop the COM from making any changes.

Keep a couple things in mind... the actions of the State and THC are no different than a southern history of blocking efforts of progress. It’s no different than how when black people tried to vote, Southern officials put so many obstacles in the way to prevent things from happening. You basically don’t want Memphians to have its own say on Memphis property; you basically think Memphis needs overseers. The real question is why do you think such an unjust system is what is needed for Memphis to lead itself?

The other thing? Though it all; have you ever had the thought that it could have been you under Nathan Bedford Forrest’s whip? That it could have been your great-great-great-great-granddaddy Forrest had on the auction block? That it could have been your great-great-great-grandmama that Forrest sold to some cruel master to be his cook and concubine? Have you ever really thought that you could have been a slave in Memphis, TN but by act of God you were born a century later? But you had to drive by this statue of a man who made his fortune selling people who looked like you and made his name fighting to keep people like you in chains and in a cotton field? And this man is treated like a hero on land meant to be for all Memphians? And that is alright for you because you don’t believe mistakes need to be corrected because you think people won’t know the history because a symbol has been removed in the name of progress!?!

Yeah bruh, I’m never going to forget the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest like I’ll never forget the names Adolf Hitler or Osama Bin Ladin. And I never had statues of them to snicker at.

How does all of that square with the fact that it was the U.S. flag flying on slave ships rather than the confederate flag?

How many slave traders existed that were never residents of southern states? How many slave owners never lived ins southern states?

Do all symbols need to be eradicated or only certain symbols?

Yeah, its a only a short step to saying the same things about Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and George Washington.

Now I don't think Forrest should be honored because of Ft. Pillow. But eliminating Confederates basically is whitewashing out of history everyone born between 1800 and 1850 in the South.

There is a difference between history and monuments. Those statues of Forrest and Davis were hero worship of a symbolic nature. They were messages praising a period when Memphis had slavery and fought to keep it. No one is going to the National Civil Rights Museum and changing any information about the CSA and how it fought to keep slavery going. There just won’t be praise in a very public venue honoring these men for defending slavery.

I’m never going to forget the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest like I’ll never forget the names Adolf Hitler or Osama Bin Ladin. And I never had statues of them to snicker at.

You did the “Whataboutism” too.

Let’s review why Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Forrest, and Davis are remembered for....

Hmmm... Washington, Jefferson, and Madison; slave owners? Yes. Are they famous because of owning slaves? Nope. They are famous for being founders of the USA.

Forrest and Davis... what are they famous for? General of the Confederacy (who worked his way up from being a lowly solder and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, one of the first (if not the first) terrorist organizations in the US; and for being the one president of he CSA.

So why the hell do you try to balance the accomplishments for Confederate legends with the founding fathers?

Forrest is famous for being perhaps the greatest cavalry officer of all time. Davis had a distinguished life before and after the CSA. That's why he was elected president (probably not why Memphis built a statue to him-and that should be considered).

Virtually every prominent southerner sided with the CSA. You lump them all together.

(12-23-2017 09:01 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Every statue of every Roman General and Emperor was created to honor them. Do we need to analyze their biographies to see if they are saints by modern standards and then start smashing those that were not?

Does this apply to paintings? Busts? Presidential Libraries? Mausoleums? Memorial Stones? Dedication Plaques? Lee Chapel?

Does it apply to books written that praise Rommel, Forrest, Lee, Bomber Harris, or Harry Truman?

Buildings named to honor Robert Byrd? J. Edgar Hoover?

Do all the Jefferson Street addresses have to change?

What exactly are the rules of this cultural revolution and how extensive is it to be?

Can we just get a finalized list onstead of dragging this out?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Its obvious where they are going. Houston renamed a middle school named after Sidney Lanier. He was famous for being a poet. He also served in the Confederate Navy as a soldier, got captured and spent much of the war in prison. Its where he got the TB that eventually killed him at a young age. Yet his name got removed because he was a confederate soldier, which was not why he was known at all.

(12-23-2017 10:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 07:51 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 05:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 04:16 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 02:23 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  What I wrote today to brother in Blue & Gray:

If you think Nathan Bedford Forrest is a redemption story, that’s your business. Cheer it and spread your feeling about that. But the man did not deserve to be memorialized and he was memorialized by a city at a time where black people were second class “citizens” for his actions fighting for a traitorous group who rebelled against the country in order to keep slavery going; slavery which was the source of his wealth.

The history books... funny you say that. Don’t see you raising cane when states like Texas humanize the system of slavery which don’t describe the process with the true picture of how bad things were in their history books. There is a difference between history and monuments. Those statues of Forrest and Davis were hero worship of a symbolic nature. They were messages praising a period when Memphis had slavery and fought to keep it. No one is going to the National Civil Rights Museum and changing any information about the CSA and how it fought to keep slavery going. There just won’t be praise in a very public venue honoring these men for defending slavery.

You talk about underhanded. You know what is underhanded? When East and Middle Tennessee officials who cannot be elected by Memphians decide what is appropriate for the Citizens of Memphis to do with property owned by the Citizens of Memphis. Men who cannot suffer consequences at the ballot box who make a decision on something which will not affect any other areas of the state of Tennessee. All because of what is ultimately an undercurrent of racism. You know the reason they changed the law? Because the City of Memphis elected officials had the audacity to have a panel to publicly discuss whether the Confederate honoring city owned parks should be renamed because there had been a very vocal movement for years to change the names. They didn’t allow the COM to make its own determination to have people like you come in an explain why you disagreed. So when the city had to find an alternative way, that got UNANIMOUS support from the City Council (which has some white Repubs on it BTW) it was actually a legal move that works around the Tennessee Historical Commission which was empowered just to stop the COM from making any changes.

Keep a couple things in mind... the actions of the State and THC are no different than a southern history of blocking efforts of progress. It’s no different than how when black people tried to vote, Southern officials put so many obstacles in the way to prevent things from happening. You basically don’t want Memphians to have its own say on Memphis property; you basically think Memphis needs overseers. The real question is why do you think such an unjust system is what is needed for Memphis to lead itself?

The other thing? Though it all; have you ever had the thought that it could have been you under Nathan Bedford Forrest’s whip? That it could have been your great-great-great-great-granddaddy Forrest had on the auction block? That it could have been your great-great-great-grandmama that Forrest sold to some cruel master to be his cook and concubine? Have you ever really thought that you could have been a slave in Memphis, TN but by act of God you were born a century later? But you had to drive by this statue of a man who made his fortune selling people who looked like you and made his name fighting to keep people like you in chains and in a cotton field? And this man is treated like a hero on land meant to be for all Memphians? And that is alright for you because you don’t believe mistakes need to be corrected because you think people won’t know the history because a symbol has been removed in the name of progress!?!

Yeah bruh, I’m never going to forget the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest like I’ll never forget the names Adolf Hitler or Osama Bin Ladin. And I never had statues of them to snicker at.

How does all of that square with the fact that it was the U.S. flag flying on slave ships rather than the confederate flag?

How many slave traders existed that were never residents of southern states? How many slave owners never lived ins southern states?

Do all symbols need to be eradicated or only certain symbols?

Yeah, its a only a short step to saying the same things about Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and George Washington.

Now I don't think Forrest should be honored because of Ft. Pillow. But eliminating Confederates basically is whitewashing out of history everyone born between 1800 and 1850 in the South.

There is a difference between history and monuments. Those statues of Forrest and Davis were hero worship of a symbolic nature. They were messages praising a period when Memphis had slavery and fought to keep it. No one is going to the National Civil Rights Museum and changing any information about the CSA and how it fought to keep slavery going. There just won’t be praise in a very public venue honoring these men for defending slavery.

I’m never going to forget the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest like I’ll never forget the names Adolf Hitler or Osama Bin Ladin. And I never had statues of them to snicker at.

You did the “Whataboutism” too.

Let’s review why Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Forrest, and Davis are remembered for....

Hmmm... Washington, Jefferson, and Madison; slave owners? Yes. Are they famous because of owning slaves? Nope. They are famous for being founders of the USA.

Forrest and Davis... what are they famous for? General of the Confederacy (who worked his way up from being a lowly solder and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, one of the first (if not the first) terrorist organizations in the US; and for being the one president of he CSA.

So why the hell do you try to balance the accomplishments for Confederate legends with the founding fathers?

Forrest is famous for being perhaps the greatest cavalry officer of all time. Davis had a distinguished life before and after the CSA. That's why he was elected president (probably not why Memphis built a statue to him-and that should be considered).

Virtually every prominent southerner sided with the CSA. You lump them all together.

As a history buff I find all of this apalling and sad. But I'm too old to worry about it much. No country for old men.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

(12-23-2017 07:43 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  Why can’t some the Sons of Confederate Veterans built a shrine and show off the statues and name the gardens after these men?

That’s what they should’ve done. The city would’ve sold them cheap. Found a nice empty lot somewhere on Union or Poplar and put both statues, 60-70 ft flag pole with the Stars & Bars flying - all on private property. Probably needed one of those underground electric fences to keep the thugs from vandalizing it. Now, had they done that, I’d be willing to bet a lot of $ that Strickland and the other goons would have had a fit and tried to still do something to remove them from private property

(12-23-2017 10:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Forrest is famous for being perhaps the greatest cavalry officer of all time.

The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy, but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased.
- Achilles Clark, 20th Tennessee Cavalry

That's some heritage to take pride in right there.

The inside job concerning the purchase of the property is going to cause serious serious issues. Gonna get REALLY ugly

For how long we have tried to get things to go our way in Nashville for the university, the dumbf*ck mayor may have just set us back two decades by pissing them off.

(12-23-2017 12:18 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 10:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Forrest is famous for being perhaps the greatest cavalry officer of all time.

The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy, but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased.
- Achilles Clark, 20th Tennessee Cavalry

That's some heritage to take pride in right there.

This is a topic of great debate. Cherry picking a quote from one author is useless. I can promise you I have known historians much more learned than you on the topic and they are unclear as to the truth. There was quite a bit of post war propaganda for various political reasons.

I don't give a shite whether the statue is moved either way. I do know political grandstanding when I see it.

Additionally, who paid for the removal of the statues, who did the removing and what's their connection to the entire scam? How can a $2.3 million piece of govt. property sell for $1,000?
There are so many more questions.

(12-23-2017 12:18 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 10:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Forrest is famous for being perhaps the greatest cavalry officer of all time.

The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy, but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased.
- Achilles Clark, 20th Tennessee Cavalry

That's some heritage to take pride in right there.

Well if you had read what I had written, you would have seen I said he shouldn't be honored because of Ft. Pillow (I presume that's where your quote comes from). Now all the other things I have read make Forrest's involvement there kind of grey, not direct. But it was soldiers under his command that did the slaughter there. Whether he ordered it or simply refused to stop it is irrelevant.

(12-23-2017 09:22 PM)450bench Wrote:  The inside job concerning the purchase of the property is going to cause serious serious issues. Gonna get REALLY ugly

Probably the statues were all a cover to make some money off the deal.

(12-22-2017 07:57 AM)tigerlands Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 01:47 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 10:02 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 09:43 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 07:47 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  I believe Memphis has a big problem with the way this was done. The CC voted on it yesterday afternoon and by night fall was removing the Monuments in the middle of the night. Oh! and the land deal was done under the table.

Yep...could get really interesting

Right or wrong, I would like to see the paper work on the whole Deal.

Two city parks sold for 1k. Something doesn’t add up

This whole deal is a sham. Do you know how much that real estate is worth? Maybe a millions dollars. Heck, the city could have at least got some money for it. What's to stop the "group" from giving the parks to another group, who then could sell it for it for its proper value. Plus there obviously was collusion going on.

I didn't have a problem with the statues coming down in some orderly fashion, should have a long time ago. I never understood Jefferson Davis Park. Forrest statue is fantastic art, but should be at Shiloh or Elmwood. But this process was too sneaky.

Yep. I couldn’t care less that the statues are gone. I just hate shady politics and under the table deals.

So, an update on racial relations in Memphis please. Anyone? I assume all is well now that a couple of statues are gone.

(12-24-2017 01:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, an update on racial relations in Memphis please. Anyone? I assume all is well now that a couple of statues are gone.

Race relations are actually fine in Memphis. However, the city is run by completely corrupt idiots. The mayor, a liberal, who is really a good guy, is as soft as chewing gum left in the sun for 3 days. He gets played like a fiddle and apparently he's fine with that. The incompetence of city officials is incredible here but it's not surprising.

(12-24-2017 04:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 01:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, an update on racial relations in Memphis please. Anyone? I assume all is well now that a couple of statues are gone.

Race relations are actually fine in Memphis. However, the city is run by completely corrupt idiots. The mayor, a liberal, who is really a good guy, is as soft as chewing gum left in the sun for 3 days. He gets played like a fiddle and apparently he's fine with that. The incompetence of city officials is incredible here but it's not surprising.

Should have elected Mongo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

(12-24-2017 05:18 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 04:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 01:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, an update on racial relations in Memphis please. Anyone? I assume all is well now that a couple of statues are gone.

Race relations are actually fine in Memphis. However, the city is run by completely corrupt idiots. The mayor, a liberal, who is really a good guy, is as soft as chewing gum left in the sun for 3 days. He gets played like a fiddle and apparently he's fine with that. The incompetence of city officials is incredible here but it's not surprising.

Should have elected Mongo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

You tell em spirit

(12-24-2017 04:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 01:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, an update on racial relations in Memphis please. Anyone? I assume all is well now that a couple of statues are gone.

Race relations are actually fine in Memphis. However, the city is run by completely corrupt idiots. The mayor, a liberal, who is really a good guy, is as soft as chewing gum left in the sun for 3 days. He gets played like a fiddle and apparently he's fine with that. The incompetence of city officials is incredible here but it's not surprising.

Played by whom? Black people who are ridiculous in wanting remembrances of a great general and a great president taken down!?!

(12-25-2017 01:25 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 04:06 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 01:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  So, an update on racial relations in Memphis please. Anyone? I assume all is well now that a couple of statues are gone.

Race relations are actually fine in Memphis. However, the city is run by completely corrupt idiots. The mayor, a liberal, who is really a good guy, is as soft as chewing gum left in the sun for 3 days. He gets played like a fiddle and apparently he's fine with that. The incompetence of city officials is incredible here but it's not surprising.

Played by whom? Black people who are ridiculous in wanting remembrances of a great general and a great president taken down!?!

On this subject, he was played by the City Council.