(12-06-2017 12:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course forcing providers to provide specific coverage is going to drive premiums but it isn't the government directly changing the premiums.

LOL, you're too much.

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:23 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Just saying.

Depending on what happens during reconciliation ill either pay a little more or alot more in taxes.

I currently file as HOH with one dependent. That puts me in the 25% bracket, with two exemptions plus mortgage interest, property tax and charitable deductions as itemized deductions. My total itemized deductions are around 24k add the personal exemptions of 8k, thats 32k I am able to write off my gross.

As i understand the 2 bills

Under the House plan I lose property taxes and personal exemptions, which takes me from 32 K to 17K, tax rate stays at 25%.

Under Senate plan I lose personal exemptions which takes me from 32K to 24, tax rate goes to 24%.

You lose personal exemptions, but gain a standard deduction to $24K which is almost double what it was. You now have a 12% bucket for anything up to $90K, and a 25% bucket for anything above that (to about $250K)

Under the old plan, you had a $12K standard deduction. Then you had a 10% bracket to $18K, a 15% bracket to $76K, a 25% to $150K, a 28% to $233 and a 33% to $250K.

You will be hard pressed to find a scenario where you will pay more federal taxes under the new plan than you were under the old one. Even if you were to lose some overall deduction amount, the brackets are much better for those making up to $250K.

(12-06-2017 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:23 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Just saying.

Depending on what happens during reconciliation ill either pay a little more or alot more in taxes.

I currently file as HOH with one dependent. That puts me in the 25% bracket, with two exemptions plus mortgage interest, property tax and charitable deductions as itemized deductions. My total itemized deductions are around 24k add the personal exemptions of 8k, thats 32k I am able to write off my gross.

As i understand the 2 bills

Under the House plan I lose property taxes and personal exemptions, which takes me from 32 K to 17K, tax rate stays at 25%.

Under Senate plan I lose personal exemptions which takes me from 32K to 24, tax rate goes to 24%.

You lose personal exemptions, but gain a standard deduction to $24K which is almost double what it was. You now have a 12% bucket for anything up to $90K, and a 25% bucket for anything above that (to about $250K)

Under the old plan, you had a $12K standard deduction. Then you had a 10% bracket to $18K, a 15% bracket to $76K, a 25% to $150K, a 28% to $233 and a 33% to $250K.

You will be hard pressed to find a scenario where you will pay more federal taxes under the new plan than you were under the old one. Even if you were to lose some overall deduction amount, the brackets are much better for those making up to $250K.

The standard deduction is used ONLY if I choose not to itemize. Since my write-offs exceed the standard deduction I will itemize and forgo the standard deduction.

Again my situation is a bit different than most(single Dad) but I will pay more(child credit does not apply to me)

Hola?

(12-06-2017 12:41 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course forcing providers to provide specific coverage is going to drive premiums but it isn't the government directly changing the premiums.

LOL, you're too much.

It's true. The insurance companies are not required by law to change their premiums.

The tax reforms however will redistribute wealth by law.

(12-06-2017 01:02 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:23 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Just saying.

Depending on what happens during reconciliation ill either pay a little more or alot more in taxes.

I currently file as HOH with one dependent. That puts me in the 25% bracket, with two exemptions plus mortgage interest, property tax and charitable deductions as itemized deductions. My total itemized deductions are around 24k add the personal exemptions of 8k, thats 32k I am able to write off my gross.

As i understand the 2 bills

Under the House plan I lose property taxes and personal exemptions, which takes me from 32 K to 17K, tax rate stays at 25%.

Under Senate plan I lose personal exemptions which takes me from 32K to 24, tax rate goes to 24%.

You lose personal exemptions, but gain a standard deduction to $24K which is almost double what it was. You now have a 12% bucket for anything up to $90K, and a 25% bucket for anything above that (to about $250K)

Under the old plan, you had a $12K standard deduction. Then you had a 10% bracket to $18K, a 15% bracket to $76K, a 25% to $150K, a 28% to $233 and a 33% to $250K.

You will be hard pressed to find a scenario where you will pay more federal taxes under the new plan than you were under the old one. Even if you were to lose some overall deduction amount, the brackets are much better for those making up to $250K.

The standard deduction is used ONLY if I choose not to itemize. Since my write-offs exceed the standard deduction I will itemize and forgo the standard deduction.

Again my situation is a bit different than most(single Dad) but I will pay more(child credit does not apply to me)

You can still itemize. But the standard deduction is higher under the new law, so you may not have to.

It would really depend on what majr deduction (and it would have to be major) that you are losing that the increase in the standard wouldnt cover. Even then, the brackes are adjusted so that you would be paying far less in taxes even if more of the income is exposed to taxes.

(12-06-2017 01:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:41 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course forcing providers to provide specific coverage is going to drive premiums but it isn't the government directly changing the premiums.

LOL, you're too much.

It's true. The insurance companies are not required by law to change their premiums.

If you require another 100$ of service the premiums have to go up.

(12-06-2017 01:56 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:41 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course forcing providers to provide specific coverage is going to drive premiums but it isn't the government directly changing the premiums.

LOL, you're too much.

It's true. The insurance companies are not required by law to change their premiums.

If you require another 100$ of service the premiums have to go up.

They technically didnt have to when Obama made those illegal make-up payments. But once the court ruled those payments were illegal, they will go up now.

(12-06-2017 01:53 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:02 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:23 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Just saying.

Depending on what happens during reconciliation ill either pay a little more or alot more in taxes.

I currently file as HOH with one dependent. That puts me in the 25% bracket, with two exemptions plus mortgage interest, property tax and charitable deductions as itemized deductions. My total itemized deductions are around 24k add the personal exemptions of 8k, thats 32k I am able to write off my gross.

As i understand the 2 bills

Under the House plan I lose property taxes and personal exemptions, which takes me from 32 K to 17K, tax rate stays at 25%.

Under Senate plan I lose personal exemptions which takes me from 32K to 24, tax rate goes to 24%.

You lose personal exemptions, but gain a standard deduction to $24K which is almost double what it was. You now have a 12% bucket for anything up to $90K, and a 25% bucket for anything above that (to about $250K)

Under the old plan, you had a $12K standard deduction. Then you had a 10% bracket to $18K, a 15% bracket to $76K, a 25% to $150K, a 28% to $233 and a 33% to $250K.

You will be hard pressed to find a scenario where you will pay more federal taxes under the new plan than you were under the old one. Even if you were to lose some overall deduction amount, the brackets are much better for those making up to $250K.

The standard deduction is used ONLY if I choose not to itemize. Since my write-offs exceed the standard deduction I will itemize and forgo the standard deduction.

Again my situation is a bit different than most(single Dad) but I will pay more(child credit does not apply to me)

You can still itemize. But the standard deduction is higher under the new law, so you may not have to.

It would really depend on what majr deduction (and it would have to be major) that you are losing that the increase in the standard wouldnt cover. Even then, the brackes are adjusted so that you would be paying far less in taxes even if more of the income is exposed to taxes.

See my original post.... my current deductions total 32K at a 25% rate.
The best Ill do under the proposed plans is total deductions of 24k at a 24% rate. The worst I can do is 17K in deductions at a 25% rate.

I am paying more in taxes under either plan.

For a married couple with 2 kids, living in an apartment or in states with low property taxes the new plan will benefit them....but not me, a single dad, with a mortgage in a high property tax state.

(12-06-2017 01:56 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:39 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:41 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course forcing providers to provide specific coverage is going to drive premiums but it isn't the government directly changing the premiums.

LOL, you're too much.

It's true. The insurance companies are not required by law to change their premiums.

If you require another 100$ of service the premiums have to go up.

Not necessarily because although the requirements meant insurance companies had to make up the increase cost up front, they also gained millions on the insurance rolls that they never had access too before.

It largely evened out for the most part which is why you didn't see significant increases at the beginning. Yes, after a couple of years premiums did go up but they were significantly lower than they were before Obamacare.

For example. From 2000 to 2008, my premiums went up 300% but from 2008 to 20016, my premiums have only gone up about 20%

(12-06-2017 01:59 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:53 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:02 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)BobL Wrote:  Depending on what happens during reconciliation ill either pay a little more or alot more in taxes.

I currently file as HOH with one dependent. That puts me in the 25% bracket, with two exemptions plus mortgage interest, property tax and charitable deductions as itemized deductions. My total itemized deductions are around 24k add the personal exemptions of 8k, thats 32k I am able to write off my gross.

As i understand the 2 bills

Under the House plan I lose property taxes and personal exemptions, which takes me from 32 K to 17K, tax rate stays at 25%.

Under Senate plan I lose personal exemptions which takes me from 32K to 24, tax rate goes to 24%.

You lose personal exemptions, but gain a standard deduction to $24K which is almost double what it was. You now have a 12% bucket for anything up to $90K, and a 25% bucket for anything above that (to about $250K)

Under the old plan, you had a $12K standard deduction. Then you had a 10% bracket to $18K, a 15% bracket to $76K, a 25% to $150K, a 28% to $233 and a 33% to $250K.

You will be hard pressed to find a scenario where you will pay more federal taxes under the new plan than you were under the old one. Even if you were to lose some overall deduction amount, the brackets are much better for those making up to $250K.

The standard deduction is used ONLY if I choose not to itemize. Since my write-offs exceed the standard deduction I will itemize and forgo the standard deduction.

Again my situation is a bit different than most(single Dad) but I will pay more(child credit does not apply to me)

You can still itemize. But the standard deduction is higher under the new law, so you may not have to.

It would really depend on what majr deduction (and it would have to be major) that you are losing that the increase in the standard wouldnt cover. Even then, the brackes are adjusted so that you would be paying far less in taxes even if more of the income is exposed to taxes.

See my original post.... my current deductions total 32K at a 25% rate.
The best Ill do under the proposed plans is total deductions of 24k at a 24% rate. The worst I can do is 14K in deductions at a 25% rate.

I am paying more in taxes under either plan.

For a married couple with 2 kids, living in an apartment or in states with low property taxes the new plan will benefit them....but not me, a single dad, with a mortgage in a high property tax state.

Property taxes and mortgage interest are still deductible. (At least in the house plan) So if you exceed the standard, you would still itemize those.

(12-06-2017 02:06 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:59 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:53 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 01:02 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  You lose personal exemptions, but gain a standard deduction to $24K which is almost double what it was. You now have a 12% bucket for anything up to $90K, and a 25% bucket for anything above that (to about $250K)

Under the old plan, you had a $12K standard deduction. Then you had a 10% bracket to $18K, a 15% bracket to $76K, a 25% to $150K, a 28% to $233 and a 33% to $250K.

You will be hard pressed to find a scenario where you will pay more federal taxes under the new plan than you were under the old one. Even if you were to lose some overall deduction amount, the brackets are much better for those making up to $250K.

The standard deduction is used ONLY if I choose not to itemize. Since my write-offs exceed the standard deduction I will itemize and forgo the standard deduction.

Again my situation is a bit different than most(single Dad) but I will pay more(child credit does not apply to me)

You can still itemize. But the standard deduction is higher under the new law, so you may not have to.

It would really depend on what majr deduction (and it would have to be major) that you are losing that the increase in the standard wouldnt cover. Even then, the brackes are adjusted so that you would be paying far less in taxes even if more of the income is exposed to taxes.

See my original post.... my current deductions total 32K at a 25% rate.
The best Ill do under the proposed plans is total deductions of 24k at a 24% rate. The worst I can do is 14K in deductions at a 25% rate.

I am paying more in taxes under either plan.

For a married couple with 2 kids, living in an apartment or in states with low property taxes the new plan will benefit them....but not me, a single dad, with a mortgage in a high property tax state.

Property taxes and mortgage interest are still deductible. (At least in the house plan) So if you exceed the standard, you would still itemize those.

clearly you dont itemize
..in either plan i lose 8k in deductions with the elimination of the personal exemptions...4k for me and 4k for my son. best case for me is the senate plan where my deductions are reduced from 32k to 24k as a result of losing the personal exemptions.

Making this retroactive could really HARM some middle class folks this year.

Fair warning. Just saying.

(12-06-2017 02:59 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Fair warning. Just saying.

Fair warning that you are going to amputate your hand because you broke a nail?

Got it!

(12-06-2017 02:59 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Fair warning. Just saying.

Ok

I will wait for tax season. You’re welcome.

(12-06-2017 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  They will. Not right away however. They want you to think you got a good deal so you can vote Republican again in the next election. Over time however, you will be right back to where you started as the tax cuts on the middle class will expire and the taxes on the rich will be permanent.

They will go back up if that "sunset date" is allowed to stand in the Senate Bill (Year 2022?) on -everyone- (not just the lower tiers).

I believe the House version does not have an sunset date on the tax cuts, so a new law has to be written to raise the taxes back up.

If they agree to the Senate version of that I think a lot of people are going to be PISSED off at the Republicans.

(12-06-2017 03:23 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  They will. Not right away however. They want you to think you got a good deal so you can vote Republican again in the next election. Over time however, you will be right back to where you started as the tax cuts on the middle class will expire and the taxes on the rich will be permanent.

They will go back up if that "sunset date" is allowed to stand in the Senate Bill (Year 2022?) on -everyone- (not just the lower tiers).

I believe the House version does not have an sunset date on the tax cuts, so a new law has to be written to raise the taxes back up.

If they agree to the Senate version of that I think a lot of people are going to be PISSED off at the Republicans.

^^^^^

(12-06-2017 03:23 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  They will. Not right away however. They want you to think you got a good deal so you can vote Republican again in the next election. Over time however, you will be right back to where you started as the tax cuts on the middle class will expire and the taxes on the rich will be permanent.

They will go back up if that "sunset date" is allowed to stand in the Senate Bill (Year 2022?) on -everyone- (not just the lower tiers).

I believe the House version does not have an sunset date on the tax cuts, so a new law has to be written to raise the taxes back up.

If they agree to the Senate version of that I think a lot of people are going to be PISSED off at the Republicans.

Just remember you heard it here first.