(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

The Puerto Rican Governor asked for it to be lifted yesterday, Wednesday. It was lifted this AM, Thursday.

(09-28-2017 07:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

You can't fix stupid Kap.

(09-28-2017 07:55 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

You can't fix stupid Kap.

You have to at least admire swag. He's not afraid to post the most idiotic stuff even when it's going to get torn to shreds. He's the left's version of a suicide bomber, although the only thing he's killing is the public opinion of his thought process.

(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

So Trump was going to captain the boat?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(09-28-2017 07:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

Trump's twitter feed is now a left wing talking point?

(09-28-2017 07:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:55 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

You can't fix stupid Kap.

You have to at least admire swag. He's not afraid to post the most idiotic stuff even when it's going to get torn to shreds. He's the left's version of a suicide bomber, although the only thing he's killing is the public opinion of his thought process.

Please explain the benefit of diverting the country's attention with NFL tweets? This must be some new 4D chess that only smart guys like you get.

(09-28-2017 09:17 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:55 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:31 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Because NFL players were kneeling and Steph Curry was thinking about not visiting the White House. Those things come first.

Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

You can't fix stupid Kap.

You have to at least admire swag. He's not afraid to post the most idiotic stuff even when it's going to get torn to shreds. He's the left's version of a suicide bomber, although the only thing he's killing is the public opinion of his thought process.

Please explain the benefit of diverting the country's attention with NFL tweets? This must be some new 4D chess that only smart guys like you get.

Diverting the country from what?

(09-28-2017 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:17 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:55 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Or it could be because there was nowhere for ships to unload, as was covered in the existing thread on Puerto Rico but you feel free to stick with your asinine leftist talking point.

You can't fix stupid Kap.

You have to at least admire swag. He's not afraid to post the most idiotic stuff even when it's going to get torn to shreds. He's the left's version of a suicide bomber, although the only thing he's killing is the public opinion of his thought process.

Please explain the benefit of diverting the country's attention with NFL tweets? This must be some new 4D chess that only smart guys like you get.

Diverting the country from what?

It's attention on things that matter. Good leadership brings order out of chaos. What was the point of the tweets?

(09-28-2017 10:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:17 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:55 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  You can't fix stupid Kap.

You have to at least admire swag. He's not afraid to post the most idiotic stuff even when it's going to get torn to shreds. He's the left's version of a suicide bomber, although the only thing he's killing is the public opinion of his thought process.

Please explain the benefit of diverting the country's attention with NFL tweets? This must be some new 4D chess that only smart guys like you get.

Diverting the country from what?

It's attention on things that matter. Good leadership brings order out of chaos. What was the point of the tweets?

Probably to troll folks too simple minded to follow multiple things at once. Evidently like you.

(09-28-2017 10:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 10:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:17 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  You have to at least admire swag. He's not afraid to post the most idiotic stuff even when it's going to get torn to shreds. He's the left's version of a suicide bomber, although the only thing he's killing is the public opinion of his thought process.

Please explain the benefit of diverting the country's attention with NFL tweets? This must be some new 4D chess that only smart guys like you get.

Diverting the country from what?

It's attention on things that matter. Good leadership brings order out of chaos. What was the point of the tweets?

Probably to troll folks too simple minded to follow multiple things at once. Evidently like you.

Like you just tried to do in this post.

(09-28-2017 10:34 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 10:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 10:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:17 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Please explain the benefit of diverting the country's attention with NFL tweets? This must be some new 4D chess that only smart guys like you get.

Diverting the country from what?

It's attention on things that matter. Good leadership brings order out of chaos. What was the point of the tweets?

Probably to troll folks too simple minded to follow multiple things at once. Evidently like you.

Like you just tried to do in this post.

I'm not trolling you. My Mama taught me not to make fun of people beneath me.

(09-28-2017 05:18 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 03:21 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 11:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 11:15 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Anything to complain about I guess.

You still remember the last president's two terms, yes?

Remember them? I'm still out of functional health coverage because of them.

Right...I forgot. Every RW poster on this site was not covered under an employer plan and/or had their coverage dropped or rates sky-rocketed simply due to Obama. The odds of this happening or like impossible.

Let's talk about one of the ways as to how ObamaCare was supposed to be paid for. I mean, we all understand that it's not really free, right? It's funded by tax payers. As tax payers we give the government our money and they spend it how they see fit.

So again, ObamaCare doesn't magically create free health care. That kind of thing doesn't exist.

I can't speak for every RW poster here, but I can share what happened to millions of Americans.

Forbes
Robert W. Wood
NOV 28, 2016 @ 09:18 AM
Trump Will Repeal Obamacare 40% Cadillac Tax, Other Taxes Too

Quote:Viewed from 2010, the Cadillac tax was supposed to rake in huge dollars to help pay for Obamacare. The Cadillac tax is a 40% tax on the cost of employer-sponsored health coverage exceeding certain thresholds: $10,800 for self-only coverage, and $29,100 for family coverage. The cost of wellness programs, on-site clinics and other plan features meant to reduce expenses are also included. Vast number of participants in numerous employer-sponsored plans will be affected.

The cadillac tax is 40%. Employers would pay that tax to the government to help pay for ObamaCare.

Except the law of unintended consequences took over.

Democrat-blue Hawaii did this evil thing when they dropped universal healthcare for children. I mean, why would they want children to die?

OK, hyperbole -- but that's what the left specializes in.

Anyway, in 2008 Hawaii became the only state to offer universal health care for children. After 7 months -- SEVEN -- they dropped it. Why? Because it failed.

Hawaii Ends Universal Child Health Care 7 Months After Start
Published October 18, 2008 Associated Press

Why did it fail? The governor's official answer was "budget shortfalls." Well, that and "other health care options." The other options? Private insurance.

Quote:Gov. Linda Lingle's administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program.

Here's the money shot:

Quote:"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

Unintended consequences.

If I'm a Hawaiian tax payer AND I have medical insurance through my employer, why should I pay taxes for children AND pay premiums for my children?

Why not just pay the taxes and sign my children up? That way I'm only paying once instead of twice.


I share all of that as an example of the law of unintended consequences.

So many brilliant people design a plan but they tend to overlook the obvious.

The authors of ObamaCare knew that certain employers offered very robust health insurance for their employees. My employer was one of them.

Each employer's health insurance plan has a very specific cost that is included in their financial statement. ObamaCare put thresholds in place and would tax the overage at 40%.

Let's use the dollar thresholds included in the Forbes article.

• $10,800 for self-only coverage
• $29,100 for family coverage
  

Let's say hypothetically that one particular employer offered a plan that was worth $15,000 per individual and $35,000 per family.

$15,000 - 10,800 = $4,200 x 40% = $1,680
$35,000 - 29,100 = $5,900 x 40% = $2,360

Let's say this employer has 50,000 employees, most of whom are married. Let's use a 65/35 split.

50,000 employees x 35% single = 17,500 single employees
50,000 employees x 65% married = 32,500 married employees

How much would the employer pay in cadillac taxes for ObamaCare?

17,500 single employees x $1,680 tax = $29,400,000
32,500 married employees x $2,360 tax = $76,700,000
Total ObamaCare Cadillac tax = $106,100,000

That's $106 MILLION for just one employer. And that's just for ONE year. Health care costs continue to rise forcing the cost of cadillac plans to continue to rise. Meaning the amount of the 40% tax would also continue to rise year over year.

So, the law of unintended consequences kicked in and employers started scaling back on what their plans cover. Premiums, co-pays and deductibles increased.

How Many Employers Could be Affected by the Cadillac Plan Tax?
Aug 25, 2015 | Gary Claxton and Larry Levitt

Quote:As fall approaches, we can expect to hear more about how employers are adapting their health plans for 2016 open enrollments. One topic likely to garner a good deal of attention is how the Affordable Care Act’s high-cost plan tax (HCPT), sometimes called the “Cadillac plan” tax, is affecting employer decisions about their health benefits. The tax takes effect in 2018.

Quote:The potential of facing an HCPT assessment as soon as 2018 is encouraging employers to assess their current health benefits and consider cost reductions to avoid triggering the tax.

How many people were impacted by cuts due to the Cadillac tax?

Cost of the Cadillac: The Obamacare story reporters are missing
Columbia Journalism Review
By Trudy Lieberman
FEBRUARY 27, 2017

Quote:The result? “In a few short years, the tax will affect all employer plans,” says Steve Wojcik, a vice president at the National Business Group on Health, which is working to repeal the tax. If employers need to reduce the value of their plans to avoid the tax, then they will need to reduce benefits or increase their workers’ share of the cost, which could result in significant increases in out-of-pocket costs for 177 million workers.

ObamaCare could've impacted 177 MILLION workers. Let's say it's actually less than half. Let's say it impacted only 60 million people.



So, I'll say it again.

My premiums INCREASED.
My coverage DECREASED.
My deductibles INCREASED.
My co-pays INCREASED.

And I'm just one of millions of Americans who are in the same boat.

So, regarding your comment:

Quote:Right...I forgot. Every RW poster on this site was not covered under an employer plan and/or had their coverage dropped or rates sky-rocketed simply due to Obama. The odds of this happening or like impossible.

I hope I addressed it and I hope it helps explain why many people do not like ObamaCare.

Thank you for these Cadillac tax articles.

Incredibly scary about the potential damage that is still to come under the most decisive and destructive piece of legislation in the modern era

New report on the radio this morning stated there are over 10,000 shipping containers already sitting at ports in PR. Destroyed infrastructure has prevented the needed supplies from getting off the ports and out to the people.

(09-29-2017 06:18 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 05:18 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 03:21 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 11:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  You still remember the last president's two terms, yes?

Remember them? I'm still out of functional health coverage because of them.

Right...I forgot. Every RW poster on this site was not covered under an employer plan and/or had their coverage dropped or rates sky-rocketed simply due to Obama. The odds of this happening or like impossible.

Let's talk about one of the ways as to how ObamaCare was supposed to be paid for. I mean, we all understand that it's not really free, right? It's funded by tax payers. As tax payers we give the government our money and they spend it how they see fit.

So again, ObamaCare doesn't magically create free health care. That kind of thing doesn't exist.

I can't speak for every RW poster here, but I can share what happened to millions of Americans.

Forbes
Robert W. Wood
NOV 28, 2016 @ 09:18 AM
Trump Will Repeal Obamacare 40% Cadillac Tax, Other Taxes Too

Quote:Viewed from 2010, the Cadillac tax was supposed to rake in huge dollars to help pay for Obamacare. The Cadillac tax is a 40% tax on the cost of employer-sponsored health coverage exceeding certain thresholds: $10,800 for self-only coverage, and $29,100 for family coverage. The cost of wellness programs, on-site clinics and other plan features meant to reduce expenses are also included. Vast number of participants in numerous employer-sponsored plans will be affected.

The cadillac tax is 40%. Employers would pay that tax to the government to help pay for ObamaCare.

Except the law of unintended consequences took over.

Democrat-blue Hawaii did this evil thing when they dropped universal healthcare for children. I mean, why would they want children to die?

OK, hyperbole -- but that's what the left specializes in.

Anyway, in 2008 Hawaii became the only state to offer universal health care for children. After 7 months -- SEVEN -- they dropped it. Why? Because it failed.

Hawaii Ends Universal Child Health Care 7 Months After Start
Published October 18, 2008 Associated Press

Why did it fail? The governor's official answer was "budget shortfalls." Well, that and "other health care options." The other options? Private insurance.

Quote:Gov. Linda Lingle's administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program.

Here's the money shot:

Quote:"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

Unintended consequences.

If I'm a Hawaiian tax payer AND I have medical insurance through my employer, why should I pay taxes for children AND pay premiums for my children?

Why not just pay the taxes and sign my children up? That way I'm only paying once instead of twice.


I share all of that as an example of the law of unintended consequences.

So many brilliant people design a plan but they tend to overlook the obvious.

The authors of ObamaCare knew that certain employers offered very robust health insurance for their employees. My employer was one of them.

Each employer's health insurance plan has a very specific cost that is included in their financial statement. ObamaCare put thresholds in place and would tax the overage at 40%.

Let's use the dollar thresholds included in the Forbes article.

• $10,800 for self-only coverage
• $29,100 for family coverage
  

Let's say hypothetically that one particular employer offered a plan that was worth $15,000 per individual and $35,000 per family.

$15,000 - 10,800 = $4,200 x 40% = $1,680
$35,000 - 29,100 = $5,900 x 40% = $2,360

Let's say this employer has 50,000 employees, most of whom are married. Let's use a 65/35 split.

50,000 employees x 35% single = 17,500 single employees
50,000 employees x 65% married = 32,500 married employees

How much would the employer pay in cadillac taxes for ObamaCare?

17,500 single employees x $1,680 tax = $29,400,000
32,500 married employees x $2,360 tax = $76,700,000
Total ObamaCare Cadillac tax = $106,100,000

That's $106 MILLION for just one employer. And that's just for ONE year. Health care costs continue to rise forcing the cost of cadillac plans to continue to rise. Meaning the amount of the 40% tax would also continue to rise year over year.

So, the law of unintended consequences kicked in and employers started scaling back on what their plans cover. Premiums, co-pays and deductibles increased.

How Many Employers Could be Affected by the Cadillac Plan Tax?
Aug 25, 2015 | Gary Claxton and Larry Levitt

Quote:As fall approaches, we can expect to hear more about how employers are adapting their health plans for 2016 open enrollments. One topic likely to garner a good deal of attention is how the Affordable Care Act’s high-cost plan tax (HCPT), sometimes called the “Cadillac plan” tax, is affecting employer decisions about their health benefits. The tax takes effect in 2018.

Quote:The potential of facing an HCPT assessment as soon as 2018 is encouraging employers to assess their current health benefits and consider cost reductions to avoid triggering the tax.

How many people were impacted by cuts due to the Cadillac tax?

Cost of the Cadillac: The Obamacare story reporters are missing
Columbia Journalism Review
By Trudy Lieberman
FEBRUARY 27, 2017

Quote:The result? “In a few short years, the tax will affect all employer plans,” says Steve Wojcik, a vice president at the National Business Group on Health, which is working to repeal the tax. If employers need to reduce the value of their plans to avoid the tax, then they will need to reduce benefits or increase their workers’ share of the cost, which could result in significant increases in out-of-pocket costs for 177 million workers.

ObamaCare could've impacted 177 MILLION workers. Let's say it's actually less than half. Let's say it impacted only 60 million people.



So, I'll say it again.

My premiums INCREASED.
My coverage DECREASED.
My deductibles INCREASED.
My co-pays INCREASED.

And I'm just one of millions of Americans who are in the same boat.

So, regarding your comment:

Quote:Right...I forgot. Every RW poster on this site was not covered under an employer plan and/or had their coverage dropped or rates sky-rocketed simply due to Obama. The odds of this happening or like impossible.

I hope I addressed it and I hope it helps explain why many people do not like ObamaCare.

Thank you for these Cadillac tax articles.

Incredibly scary about the potential damage that is still to come under the most decisive and destructive piece of legislation in the modern era

Notice the lack of leftists comments when it gets spelled out. They just go off to some other side tangent.

(09-29-2017 07:15 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  New report on the radio this morning stated there are over 10,000 shipping containers already sitting at ports in PR. Destroyed infrastructure has prevented the needed supplies from getting off the ports and out to the people.

Why aren't they just dropping them from planes? Don't they do that in African aid situations?

(09-29-2017 09:21 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 07:15 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  New report on the radio this morning stated there are over 10,000 shipping containers already sitting at ports in PR. Destroyed infrastructure has prevented the needed supplies from getting off the ports and out to the people.

Why aren't they just dropping them from planes? Don't they do that in African aid situations?

Now you are on a different argument. I'm sure food could be air dropped to more remote locations or to people that desperately need it. Hell it could already be taking place for all we know. The thread was about the Jones Act and libs trying to claim Trump is too wrapped up in a pissing match with the NFL to properly respond to PR. That isn't the case.

(09-29-2017 09:30 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:21 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 07:15 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  New report on the radio this morning stated there are over 10,000 shipping containers already sitting at ports in PR. Destroyed infrastructure has prevented the needed supplies from getting off the ports and out to the people.

Why aren't they just dropping them from planes? Don't they do that in African aid situations?

Now you are on a different argument. I'm sure food could be air dropped to more remote locations or to people that desperately need it. Hell it could already be taking place for all we know. The thread was about the Jones Act and libs trying to claim Trump is too wrapped up in a pissing match with the NFL to properly respond to PR. That isn't the case.

But no one has explained why he waited to waive the Jones Act. On top of that, why did they wait 8 days before assigning a 3 star general to the situation?

They knew for at least 3 days before the storm that PR was going to take a direct hit. They must have known that PR had bad infrastructure right?

They saw what two previous storms did. Why weren't they prepared?

(09-29-2017 09:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:30 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:21 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 07:15 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  New report on the radio this morning stated there are over 10,000 shipping containers already sitting at ports in PR. Destroyed infrastructure has prevented the needed supplies from getting off the ports and out to the people.

Why aren't they just dropping them from planes? Don't they do that in African aid situations?

Now you are on a different argument. I'm sure food could be air dropped to more remote locations or to people that desperately need it. Hell it could already be taking place for all we know. The thread was about the Jones Act and libs trying to claim Trump is too wrapped up in a pissing match with the NFL to properly respond to PR. That isn't the case.

But no one has explained why he waited to waive the Jones Act. On top of that, why did they wait 8 days before assigning a 3 star general to the situation?

They knew for at least 3 days before the storm that PR was going to take a direct hit. They must have known that PR had bad infrastructure right?

They saw what two previous storms did. Why weren't they prepared?

Some folks seem to forget there were two previous hurricanes being dealt with. Anything to complain against Trump though.....

(09-29-2017 09:37 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:30 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:21 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 07:15 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  New report on the radio this morning stated there are over 10,000 shipping containers already sitting at ports in PR. Destroyed infrastructure has prevented the needed supplies from getting off the ports and out to the people.

Why aren't they just dropping them from planes? Don't they do that in African aid situations?

Now you are on a different argument. I'm sure food could be air dropped to more remote locations or to people that desperately need it. Hell it could already be taking place for all we know. The thread was about the Jones Act and libs trying to claim Trump is too wrapped up in a pissing match with the NFL to properly respond to PR. That isn't the case.

But no one has explained why he waited to waive the Jones Act. On top of that, why did they wait 8 days before assigning a 3 star general to the situation?

They knew for at least 3 days before the storm that PR was going to take a direct hit. They must have known that PR had bad infrastructure right?

They saw what two previous storms did. Why weren't they prepared?

Some folks seem to forget there were two previous hurricanes being dealt with. Anything to complain against Trump though.....

So the two previous hurricanes caused Trump to wait two weeks to waive the Jones Act? How so?

The two previous hurricanes caused them to forget that PR had no infrastructure? How so?