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(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 10:21 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

Also as many, including Tommy G have said repeatedly, the ticket price difference is not as drastic as many think it may be. I tried finding Tommy G's twitter conversation with someone who brought this point up but I couldn't find it. I believe he gave actual numbers to back it also.

People continue to think that this(FCC) is just for hipsters or suburban families or whatever, but I don't think they realize how broad the soccer fanbase is. To really drive home the point half of the the entire population, women, has NEVER played baseball or football competitively. However a whole lot of athletically inclined women played soccer right up through high school. Soccer has mass appeal, even folks like doss, who loathe the unwashed masses enjoying his stadium throughout the summer, prove to understand and dare I say even appreciate the game now.

Add in the fact that the Bengals are the Bengals and the Reds appear to be in the midst of another 25 year rebuild and add in the safety issues with football and the snooze issue with baseball and it's a perfect storm at the perfect time for FCC.

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 10:21 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

Also as many, including Tommy G have said repeatedly, the ticket price difference is not as drastic as many think it may be. I tried finding Tommy G's twitter conversation with someone who brought this point up but I couldn't find it. I believe he gave actual numbers to back it also.

People continue to think that this(FCC) is just for hipsters or suburban families or whatever, but I don't think they realize how broad the soccer fanbase is. To really drive home the point half of the the entire population, women, has NEVER played baseball or football competitively. However a whole lot of athletically inclined women played soccer right up through high school. Soccer has mass appeal, even folks like doss, who loathe the unwashed masses enjoying his stadium throughout the summer, prove to understand and dare I say even appreciate the game now.

Add in the fact that the Bengals are the Bengals and the Reds appear to be in the midst of another 25 year rebuild and add in the safety issues with football and the snooze issue with baseball and it's a perfect storm at the perfect time for FCC.

I learned the game because my daughter played "up" on a Select A team and in HS at Ursuline Academy.

I have never watched a soccer game unless my daughter was playing, one team wore USA or Cincinnati.

If you told me Brazil was playing Germany for the World Cup I would respond BFD.

(08-01-2017 04:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:37 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 12:03 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Newport will be worse.

With only a one lane bridge over the licking river for entry/exit west and only a 2 lane entry/exit east into the Newport Levee, the Newport location would be a logistical hot mess. There is no way to improve that, either. It's cut off and on an island from 471 and 75 by the permanent pinch points.

There is actually 4 ways to get in there.
-Exit off of 471 and go park at the Levee garage
-Taylor Southgate Bridge (Next to US Bank Arena and that garage can be
utilized also, then walk).
-4th Street bridge across the Licking River
-And the under construction Route 9 Licking connector.

Don't forget, also, that the T-S Bridge has congestion throttling, meaning they can adjust the flow of traffic depending on the time of day from 2 lanes in each direction to 4 lanes in or four lanes out. As far as traffic and congestion goes, it would be no more difficult that Nippert is to be honest...and much easier than their Taft HS plan.

The problem with the Ovation site is that it's pinned in on two sides, the north by the Ohio River, and on the west by the Licking. This site is served by one Road to the south, which is two lanes in each direction.

The two closest exit points are the Taylor Southgate to the north, and a two lane bridge over the Licking that dumps into a residential neighborhood.

The Levee is both a blessing and a curse. There's parking but that garage sucks, and it's already mostly full on the weekends. There is no straight shot to 471 and to get to it one must jaunt through The Levee, which is a bottleneck, and will be moreso on game days because the Taylor Southgate will dump traffic between the two venues.

I-75 requires a drive through Covington, much of which is residential.

Of all the sites, I think it's a toss up between Oakley and the West End.

Oakley is already in a commercial area, right next to 71 and the lateral. Madison Road is designed for heavy traffic.

The West End is close enough to Downtown and OTR. The streetcar would be used, just like it is heavily used for Reds and Bengals games.

Oakley and the West End get bonus points because they are actually in Cincinnati as opposed to being located in Kentucky. Move the team to Newport and the name should be KFC.

The Newport site makes it all the more difficult for fans from the Northern club soccer crazy suburbs of Fairfield, West Chester, Mason, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Loveland, etc. to get to games.

Move it to Newport and Berding/Lindner better hope there are tons of soccer fans in Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Kenton, Pendleton and Walton Verona to make up for the loss of the Northern Cincinnati suburbs.

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Any fan who would rather watch ... soccer ... is not worth listening to.

Well said.

(08-02-2017 03:05 AM)cpawfan Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Any fan who would rather watch ... soccer ... is not worth listening to.

Well said.

Hilarious soccer joke, but you forgot to call them socialists.

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  [quote='BeerCat' pid='14475753' dateline='1501600917']
Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

One snowflake opinion.

(08-02-2017 08:08 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  [quote='BeerCat' pid='14475753' dateline='1501600917']
Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

One snowflake opinion.

Still curious if there is comparative attendance data from other cities that have upgraded from minor to major league play? Did Columbus, OH have minor league soccer before the Crew? If so, it would be interesting to see attendance numbers since their current attendance in MLS is certainly unimpressive. And there is no MLB or NFL competition in metro Columbus (#33) which is slightly smaller than metro Cincy (#28).

(08-02-2017 08:31 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 08:08 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  [quote='BeerCat' pid='14475753' dateline='1501600917']
Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

One snowflake opinion.

Still curious if there is comparative attendance data from other cities that have upgraded from minor to major league play? Did Columbus, OH have minor league soccer before the Crew? If so, it would be interesting to see attendance numbers since their current attendance in MLS is certainly unimpressive. And there is no MLB or NFL competition in metro Columbus (#33) which is slightly smaller than metro Cincy (#28).

After doing a quick search, Minnesota United FC, Montreal Impact, and Atlanta United are all the most recent MLS teams who grew out of a minor league team.

Minnesota's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 8,500.. they're now drawing 19,940 in the MLS this year.

Montreal's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 13,034.. they're now drawing 20,293 in the MLS.

Atlanta's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 5,000 and they're MLS team is now drawing 46,318 on average.

Safe to say it's an apples-oranges comparison when looking at Cincy's minor league team compared to these. A better comparison would be if Sacramento's minor league team made it to the MLS

(08-02-2017 08:31 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 08:08 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  [quote='BeerCat' pid='14475753' dateline='1501600917']
Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

One snowflake opinion.

Still curious if there is comparative attendance data from other cities that have upgraded from minor to major league play? Did Columbus, OH have minor league soccer before the Crew? If so, it would be interesting to see attendance numbers since their current attendance in MLS is certainly unimpressive. And there is no MLB or NFL competition in metro Columbus (#33) which is slightly smaller than metro Cincy (#28).

Minnesota United FC played in the NASL from 2010-16 before moving to MLS this year. Looks like they averaged 8000+ fans per game for their last 3 NASL seasons. They're averaging almost 20,000 this year in MLS.

Orlando City played in the USL from 2010-14 and it looks like they averaged a little over 6000. They've averaged over 28,000 in 2 seasons in MLS (albeit with a 19% drop this year)

Portland Timbers played in the USL from 2001-2010 and averaged 7200 fans. As an MLS club, they've averaged about 20,500 between 2011-16.

(08-01-2017 09:22 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 04:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:37 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  With only a one lane bridge over the licking river for entry/exit west and only a 2 lane entry/exit east into the Newport Levee, the Newport location would be a logistical hot mess. There is no way to improve that, either. It's cut off and on an island from 471 and 75 by the permanent pinch points.

There is actually 4 ways to get in there.
-Exit off of 471 and go park at the Levee garage
-Taylor Southgate Bridge (Next to US Bank Arena and that garage can be
utilized also, then walk).
-4th Street bridge across the Licking River
-And the under construction Route 9 Licking connector.

Don't forget, also, that the T-S Bridge has congestion throttling, meaning they can adjust the flow of traffic depending on the time of day from 2 lanes in each direction to 4 lanes in or four lanes out. As far as traffic and congestion goes, it would be no more difficult that Nippert is to be honest...and much easier than their Taft HS plan.

The problem with the Ovation site is that it's pinned in on two sides, the north by the Ohio River, and on the west by the Licking. This site is served by one Road to the south, which is two lanes in each direction.

The two closest exit points are the Taylor Southgate to the north, and a two lane bridge over the Licking that dumps into a residential neighborhood.

The Levee is both a blessing and a curse. There's parking but that garage sucks, and it's already mostly full on the weekends. There is no straight shot to 471 and to get to it one must jaunt through The Levee, which is a bottleneck, and will be moreso on game days because the Taylor Southgate will dump traffic between the two venues.

I-75 requires a drive through Covington, much of which is residential.

Of all the sites, I think it's a toss up between Oakley and the West End.

Oakley is already in a commercial area, right next to 71 and the lateral. Madison Road is designed for heavy traffic.

The West End is close enough to Downtown and OTR. The streetcar would be used, just like it is heavily used for Reds and Bengals games.

Oakley and the West End get bonus points because they are actually in Cincinnati as opposed to being located in Kentucky. Move the team to Newport and the name should be KFC.

The Newport site makes it all the more difficult for fans from the Northern club soccer crazy suburbs of Fairfield, West Chester, Mason, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Loveland, etc. to get to games.

Move it to Newport and Berding/Lindner better hope there are tons of soccer fans in Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Kenton, Pendleton and Walton Verona to make up for the loss of the Northern Cincinnati suburbs.

How exactly would it be more difficult, when it would take less time for them to get to Newport than Clifton? Staying on I-71 for 3 miles to get to Newport rather than having to drive down Taft would actually be a time saver, and the parking situation would be equal, if not better, than the campus area.

I want them to stay in Nippert as much as the next guy, but completely disagree with the argument above.

(08-02-2017 09:45 AM)Saint Martin Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 09:22 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 04:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:37 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  There is actually 4 ways to get in there.
-Exit off of 471 and go park at the Levee garage
-Taylor Southgate Bridge (Next to US Bank Arena and that garage can be
utilized also, then walk).
-4th Street bridge across the Licking River
-And the under construction Route 9 Licking connector.

Don't forget, also, that the T-S Bridge has congestion throttling, meaning they can adjust the flow of traffic depending on the time of day from 2 lanes in each direction to 4 lanes in or four lanes out. As far as traffic and congestion goes, it would be no more difficult that Nippert is to be honest...and much easier than their Taft HS plan.

The problem with the Ovation site is that it's pinned in on two sides, the north by the Ohio River, and on the west by the Licking. This site is served by one Road to the south, which is two lanes in each direction.

The two closest exit points are the Taylor Southgate to the north, and a two lane bridge over the Licking that dumps into a residential neighborhood.

The Levee is both a blessing and a curse. There's parking but that garage sucks, and it's already mostly full on the weekends. There is no straight shot to 471 and to get to it one must jaunt through The Levee, which is a bottleneck, and will be moreso on game days because the Taylor Southgate will dump traffic between the two venues.

I-75 requires a drive through Covington, much of which is residential.

Of all the sites, I think it's a toss up between Oakley and the West End.

Oakley is already in a commercial area, right next to 71 and the lateral. Madison Road is designed for heavy traffic.

The West End is close enough to Downtown and OTR. The streetcar would be used, just like it is heavily used for Reds and Bengals games.

Oakley and the West End get bonus points because they are actually in Cincinnati as opposed to being located in Kentucky. Move the team to Newport and the name should be KFC.

The Newport site makes it all the more difficult for fans from the Northern club soccer crazy suburbs of Fairfield, West Chester, Mason, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Loveland, etc. to get to games.

Move it to Newport and Berding/Lindner better hope there are tons of soccer fans in Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Kenton, Pendleton and Walton Verona to make up for the loss of the Northern Cincinnati suburbs.

How exactly would it be more difficult, when it would take less time for them to get to Newport than Clifton? Staying on I-71 for 3 miles to get to Newport rather than having to drive down Taft would actually be a time saver, and the parking situation would be equal, if not better, than the campus area.

I want them to stay in Nippert as much as the next guy, but completely disagree with the argument above.

Exactly...as far as reasons for not picking Newport, that one probably takes the cake for stupidest. I completely agree that there are logistical reasons to not do it there, but travel time would be a wash at worst.

(08-02-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:45 AM)Saint Martin Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 09:22 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 04:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Don't forget, also, that the T-S Bridge has congestion throttling, meaning they can adjust the flow of traffic depending on the time of day from 2 lanes in each direction to 4 lanes in or four lanes out. As far as traffic and congestion goes, it would be no more difficult that Nippert is to be honest...and much easier than their Taft HS plan.

The problem with the Ovation site is that it's pinned in on two sides, the north by the Ohio River, and on the west by the Licking. This site is served by one Road to the south, which is two lanes in each direction.

The two closest exit points are the Taylor Southgate to the north, and a two lane bridge over the Licking that dumps into a residential neighborhood.

The Levee is both a blessing and a curse. There's parking but that garage sucks, and it's already mostly full on the weekends. There is no straight shot to 471 and to get to it one must jaunt through The Levee, which is a bottleneck, and will be moreso on game days because the Taylor Southgate will dump traffic between the two venues.

I-75 requires a drive through Covington, much of which is residential.

Of all the sites, I think it's a toss up between Oakley and the West End.

Oakley is already in a commercial area, right next to 71 and the lateral. Madison Road is designed for heavy traffic.

The West End is close enough to Downtown and OTR. The streetcar would be used, just like it is heavily used for Reds and Bengals games.

Oakley and the West End get bonus points because they are actually in Cincinnati as opposed to being located in Kentucky. Move the team to Newport and the name should be KFC.

The Newport site makes it all the more difficult for fans from the Northern club soccer crazy suburbs of Fairfield, West Chester, Mason, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Loveland, etc. to get to games.

Move it to Newport and Berding/Lindner better hope there are tons of soccer fans in Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Kenton, Pendleton and Walton Verona to make up for the loss of the Northern Cincinnati suburbs.

How exactly would it be more difficult, when it would take less time for them to get to Newport than Clifton? Staying on I-71 for 3 miles to get to Newport rather than having to drive down Taft would actually be a time saver, and the parking situation would be equal, if not better, than the campus area.

I want them to stay in Nippert as much as the next guy, but completely disagree with the argument above.

Exactly...as far as reasons for not picking Newport, that one probably takes the cake for stupidest. I completely agree that there are logistical reasons to not do it there, but travel time would be a wash at worst.

I actually think the traffic would be much worse trying to get to Newport than it is into Clifton. Especially with the new exit opening soon.

You'll have people who need to merge from I-71 S to I-471 S (which is one exit) who will likely attempt to exit at the first across the river. That requires 2 lane changes in the length of the bridge across the river. Meanwhile, you'll have people who are coming from Ft. Washington Way to I-471 South who may or may not be needing to exit at that same stop, causing traffic to back up across Ft. Washington Way as well as up I-471 to I-71. Once you get off the exit, getting across Newport is a disaster already.

I've seen this back up quite a few times during rush hour and it can get pretty nasty. This is not taking in account people coming from the South or Covington either. There are a lot of more inlets into Clifton than this.

I know I look forward to moving to a general area that already has some crowd infrastructure in hand.. with space to build proper garages etc.. I truly dread somehow figuring out a way to get 25k MORE people in OTR on a saturday night.. that place is already a parking/people nightmare. The fact that I can as easily walk to the Banks, Newport on the Levee, Molly Malones, or even Braxton brewery should allow more accessibility to the area. Lets be honest, around Clifton more than 1/4-1/2 a mile and the area is a dead zone.. around the Ovation site there is plenty to do in multiple directions that could be easily walkable for pre or post game celebratory drinks.. Also DO NOT discount the amount of people that will be able to walk to this site from other massive parking areas, Banks/Levee etc.. If you have ever been to a Titans Game in Nashville the bridge right next to the stadium serves a MASSIVE amount of walkers in and out, and the parking situation there is very similar(surrounded on 2 sides by water, and 1 major highway in and out of there, and it services more than double what FCC stadium would do)

BTW now that we are no longer discussing Nippert in this convo can we move this to off topic?

(08-02-2017 09:10 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 08:31 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 08:08 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 01:59 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  [quote='BeerCat' pid='14475753' dateline='1501600917']
Nippert is great and all, but it is not the reason for the 20k+ average attendance. An invite to the MLS and I would expect 30k average attendance.

Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

One snowflake opinion.

Still curious if there is comparative attendance data from other cities that have upgraded from minor to major league play? Did Columbus, OH have minor league soccer before the Crew? If so, it would be interesting to see attendance numbers since their current attendance in MLS is certainly unimpressive. And there is no MLB or NFL competition in metro Columbus (#33) which is slightly smaller than metro Cincy (#28).

After doing a quick search, Minnesota United FC, Montreal Impact, and Atlanta United are all the most recent MLS teams who grew out of a minor league team.

Minnesota's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 8,500.. they're now drawing 19,940 in the MLS this year.

Montreal's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 13,034.. they're now drawing 20,293 in the MLS.

Atlanta's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 5,000 and they're MLS team is now drawing 46,318 on average.

Safe to say it's an apples-oranges comparison when looking at Cincy's minor league team compared to these. A better comparison would be if Sacramento's minor league team made it to the MLS

Excellent info, thanks for sharing. I'm actually encouraged by this information as I'm all in for another big league program in our major league town.

(08-02-2017 11:58 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:10 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 08:31 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 08:08 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 05:56 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Bolded, or not. I have no dog in this fight but a friend who has attended most all the FC Cincinnati games is opposed to the MLS upgrade. He believes the price point for MLS games will substantially reduce crowd size. He feels it's a great experience in Nippert with the current level of Uptown amenities and family friendly pricing. Is there any data from other cities that upgraded to the majors that would support his argument?

I tried for several minutes to think of a nice way to type this, but I don't think there is any. Any fan who would rather watch minor league soccer than major league soccer is not worth listening to.

One snowflake opinion.

Still curious if there is comparative attendance data from other cities that have upgraded from minor to major league play? Did Columbus, OH have minor league soccer before the Crew? If so, it would be interesting to see attendance numbers since their current attendance in MLS is certainly unimpressive. And there is no MLB or NFL competition in metro Columbus (#33) which is slightly smaller than metro Cincy (#28).

After doing a quick search, Minnesota United FC, Montreal Impact, and Atlanta United are all the most recent MLS teams who grew out of a minor league team.

Minnesota's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 8,500.. they're now drawing 19,940 in the MLS this year.

Montreal's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 13,034.. they're now drawing 20,293 in the MLS.

Atlanta's minor league team played in a stadium with a capacity of 5,000 and they're MLS team is now drawing 46,318 on average.

Safe to say it's an apples-oranges comparison when looking at Cincy's minor league team compared to these. A better comparison would be if Sacramento's minor league team made it to the MLS

Excellent info, thanks for sharing. I'm actually encouraged by this information as I'm all in for another big league program in our major league town.

Portland would be a good comparison. They joined MLS in 2011, and have effectively sold out each match in their MLS era (21,000-ish per match). In the few years in USL prior to MLS (the club has been around since 1975), they averaged 6800, 8500, 9700, and 10,700. They were pretty steady in the 6,000 range for a handful of years prior.

(08-02-2017 09:59 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:45 AM)Saint Martin Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 09:22 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 04:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The problem with the Ovation site is that it's pinned in on two sides, the north by the Ohio River, and on the west by the Licking. This site is served by one Road to the south, which is two lanes in each direction.

The two closest exit points are the Taylor Southgate to the north, and a two lane bridge over the Licking that dumps into a residential neighborhood.

The Levee is both a blessing and a curse. There's parking but that garage sucks, and it's already mostly full on the weekends. There is no straight shot to 471 and to get to it one must jaunt through The Levee, which is a bottleneck, and will be moreso on game days because the Taylor Southgate will dump traffic between the two venues.

I-75 requires a drive through Covington, much of which is residential.

Of all the sites, I think it's a toss up between Oakley and the West End.

Oakley is already in a commercial area, right next to 71 and the lateral. Madison Road is designed for heavy traffic.

The West End is close enough to Downtown and OTR. The streetcar would be used, just like it is heavily used for Reds and Bengals games.

Oakley and the West End get bonus points because they are actually in Cincinnati as opposed to being located in Kentucky. Move the team to Newport and the name should be KFC.

The Newport site makes it all the more difficult for fans from the Northern club soccer crazy suburbs of Fairfield, West Chester, Mason, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Loveland, etc. to get to games.

Move it to Newport and Berding/Lindner better hope there are tons of soccer fans in Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Kenton, Pendleton and Walton Verona to make up for the loss of the Northern Cincinnati suburbs.

How exactly would it be more difficult, when it would take less time for them to get to Newport than Clifton? Staying on I-71 for 3 miles to get to Newport rather than having to drive down Taft would actually be a time saver, and the parking situation would be equal, if not better, than the campus area.

I want them to stay in Nippert as much as the next guy, but completely disagree with the argument above.

Exactly...as far as reasons for not picking Newport, that one probably takes the cake for stupidest. I completely agree that there are logistical reasons to not do it there, but travel time would be a wash at worst.

I actually think the traffic would be much worse trying to get to Newport than it is into Clifton. Especially with the new exit opening soon.

You'll have people who need to merge from I-71 S to I-471 S (which is one exit) who will likely attempt to exit at the first across the river. That requires 2 lane changes in the length of the bridge across the river. Meanwhile, you'll have people who are coming from Ft. Washington Way to I-471 South who may or may not be needing to exit at that same stop, causing traffic to back up across Ft. Washington Way as well as up I-471 to I-71. Once you get off the exit, getting across Newport is a disaster already.

I've seen this back up quite a few times during rush hour and it can get pretty nasty. This is not taking in account people coming from the South or Covington either. There are a lot of more inlets into Clifton than this.

^This. 471 southbound merge is a freaking nightmare at certain times of the day, especially if someone wrecks or breaks down on the bridge. And there aren't exactly a. Inch of side streets you can turn down to get around it since you need to cross water

(08-02-2017 01:16 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:59 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:45 AM)Saint Martin Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 09:22 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Oakley and the West End get bonus points because they are actually in Cincinnati as opposed to being located in Kentucky. Move the team to Newport and the name should be KFC.

The Newport site makes it all the more difficult for fans from the Northern club soccer crazy suburbs of Fairfield, West Chester, Mason, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Loveland, etc. to get to games.

Move it to Newport and Berding/Lindner better hope there are tons of soccer fans in Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Kenton, Pendleton and Walton Verona to make up for the loss of the Northern Cincinnati suburbs.

How exactly would it be more difficult, when it would take less time for them to get to Newport than Clifton? Staying on I-71 for 3 miles to get to Newport rather than having to drive down Taft would actually be a time saver, and the parking situation would be equal, if not better, than the campus area.

I want them to stay in Nippert as much as the next guy, but completely disagree with the argument above.

Exactly...as far as reasons for not picking Newport, that one probably takes the cake for stupidest. I completely agree that there are logistical reasons to not do it there, but travel time would be a wash at worst.

I actually think the traffic would be much worse trying to get to Newport than it is into Clifton. Especially with the new exit opening soon.

You'll have people who need to merge from I-71 S to I-471 S (which is one exit) who will likely attempt to exit at the first across the river. That requires 2 lane changes in the length of the bridge across the river. Meanwhile, you'll have people who are coming from Ft. Washington Way to I-471 South who may or may not be needing to exit at that same stop, causing traffic to back up across Ft. Washington Way as well as up I-471 to I-71. Once you get off the exit, getting across Newport is a disaster already.

I've seen this back up quite a few times during rush hour and it can get pretty nasty. This is not taking in account people coming from the South or Covington either. There are a lot of more inlets into Clifton than this.

^This. 471 southbound merge is a freaking nightmare at certain times of the day, especially if someone wrecks or breaks down on the bridge. And there aren't exactly a. Inch of side streets you can turn down to get around it since you need to cross water

That Interchange is one of the poorest designs I have ever seen, but that's what happens when you decide to build a spur road on top of a confluence pattern.. With that being said, there are a few simpler solutions to getting over there without touching 471...namely, using the Gilbert exit then getting to Broadway to cross the T-S Bridge or jumping onto 3rd then crossing over the Roebling. As someone who commuted between Mason and Covington for 5 years, that route is smooth as silk since there is very little community traffic there after about 6:30pm.

(08-01-2017 12:35 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I saw on a broadcast up in Michigan over the weekend that Detroit is making a final push for MLS expansion as well. They seemed pretty confident that an invite was a formality fwiw with Tom Gores (Detroit Pistons Owner) and Dan Gilbert (Cleveland Cavaliers Owner) putting up the money / land for building the new stadium. With 12 expansion candidates and only 4 slots available, Detroit seemed in the snippet I saw as one of the favorites. Where does Cincinnati stand in the pecking order out of the 12?

Quote:

The soccer component. Rock Ventures (owned by Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert) proposes to build a 23,000-seat soccer stadium as part of a $1.5 billion development at a downtown location.

Detroit's place in pecking order. The Detroit MLS bid was submitted by Detroit Pistons owner Tom Gores and Gilbert, giving it two heavy hitters and prominent sports entrepreneurs. They will catch the attention of MLS.

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/74...boost.html

It all depends -- if MLS wants to grow their TV deal, Detroit is over double the media market size of Cincinnati. It's simply impossible to compete with that many eyeballs.

(08-02-2017 01:52 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 01:16 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:59 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(08-02-2017 09:45 AM)Saint Martin Wrote:  How exactly would it be more difficult, when it would take less time for them to get to Newport than Clifton? Staying on I-71 for 3 miles to get to Newport rather than having to drive down Taft would actually be a time saver, and the parking situation would be equal, if not better, than the campus area.

I want them to stay in Nippert as much as the next guy, but completely disagree with the argument above.

Exactly...as far as reasons for not picking Newport, that one probably takes the cake for stupidest. I completely agree that there are logistical reasons to not do it there, but travel time would be a wash at worst.

I actually think the traffic would be much worse trying to get to Newport than it is into Clifton. Especially with the new exit opening soon.

You'll have people who need to merge from I-71 S to I-471 S (which is one exit) who will likely attempt to exit at the first across the river. That requires 2 lane changes in the length of the bridge across the river. Meanwhile, you'll have people who are coming from Ft. Washington Way to I-471 South who may or may not be needing to exit at that same stop, causing traffic to back up across Ft. Washington Way as well as up I-471 to I-71. Once you get off the exit, getting across Newport is a disaster already.

I've seen this back up quite a few times during rush hour and it can get pretty nasty. This is not taking in account people coming from the South or Covington either. There are a lot of more inlets into Clifton than this.

^This. 471 southbound merge is a freaking nightmare at certain times of the day, especially if someone wrecks or breaks down on the bridge. And there aren't exactly a. Inch of side streets you can turn down to get around it since you need to cross water

That Interchange is one of the poorest designs I have ever seen, but that's what happens when you decide to build a spur road on top of a confluence pattern.. With that being said, there are a few simpler solutions to getting over there without touching 471...namely, using the Gilbert exit then getting to Broadway to cross the T-S Bridge or jumping onto 3rd then crossing over the Roebling. As someone who commuted between Mason and Covington for 5 years, that route is smooth as silk since there is very little community traffic there after about 6:30pm.

Sounds like an option if you know about it for weekend games. Might not be the solution for weeknight games at 7 if you want to be there for the start.

(08-02-2017 02:24 PM)#41 Wrote:  

(08-01-2017 12:35 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I saw on a broadcast up in Michigan over the weekend that Detroit is making a final push for MLS expansion as well. They seemed pretty confident that an invite was a formality fwiw with Tom Gores (Detroit Pistons Owner) and Dan Gilbert (Cleveland Cavaliers Owner) putting up the money / land for building the new stadium. With 12 expansion candidates and only 4 slots available, Detroit seemed in the snippet I saw as one of the favorites. Where does Cincinnati stand in the pecking order out of the 12?

Quote:

The soccer component. Rock Ventures (owned by Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert) proposes to build a 23,000-seat soccer stadium as part of a $1.5 billion development at a downtown location.

Detroit's place in pecking order. The Detroit MLS bid was submitted by Detroit Pistons owner Tom Gores and Gilbert, giving it two heavy hitters and prominent sports entrepreneurs. They will catch the attention of MLS.

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/74...boost.html

It all depends -- if MLS wants to grow their TV deal, Detroit is over double the media market size of Cincinnati. It's simply impossible to compete with that many eyeballs.

Not a huge soccer fan but I do watch a bit. I probably would have changed the channel but I heard talk on the TV of MLS expansion and Detroit pushing to be one of 4, only other cities listed were Nashville, Miami and Sacramento. I don't know if those are the four front-runners or if FC Cincinnati is right there as well. Just was curious.