(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

In my opinion, Shuman could be an above average QB in a system similar to what Troy runs. The issue with that is Georgia Southern, as evidenced by Summers promise to keep the TO, had no intention of changing offensive styles. As mentioned previously, coaches are allowed to shape Southern's success around their tradition which includes variations of an option offense.

Summer's staff isn't well versed on the style of offense that the school requires and when you couple that with a probable 4-8 record, you have a group that could be one and done.

(11-30-2016 11:02 AM)TrueBlueAlum Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 10:54 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 10:28 AM)TrueBlueAlum Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 10:27 AM)ericsaid Wrote:  Summers needs to go. He has no intention of keeping the triple option and will be doing away with Southern football history and likely it's every season competitiveness as it is known today.

He had genuine intention of keeping the option. We couldn't afford to hire the coordinators he wanted to do it. The coordinators he ended up hiring tried and failed miserably because it's not their style of offense.

Who were these coordinators? Seems a little crazy to think he was going to take a job not knowing the school was not going to hire the OC's he wanted. When he hired two non option coaches he had no real intent of running the option. The zone read crap was a waste of time especially with Shuman as I dont recall him ever keeping the ball. We saw with Shuman what these OC's wanted to run and it was horrible. KE was able to bail out plays with his feet and is the only reason we probably won any games this year.

Or the coordinators he offered jobs to wanted more money than we could offer them. It's not crazy. Shuman not keeping the ball had more to do with Shuman than it did what he was being taught in practice.

We saw with Shuman what the OC's HAD to run because our #1 and #2 QB's were injured and we had no real working running game. They also had an inability to coach the OL properly.

So you really have no clue whether or not he got the OC's he wanted. Again who are these mythical OC's, any names? If we got a national championship DIV II HC I am sure we passed over a ton of FCS OC's that ran option based offenses that would gotten a nice pay raise from whatever they are getting at an FCS school not named NDSU. They were just not in CTS's good ole boy circle.

We also did not have to play Shuman as we had three other players that were brought here to play option based football on the roster. Rance made a desperate move in hopes that his high school QB could run his high school offense and squeak out wins against some the worst teams in the country. Shuman cant out run DL and he certainly cant cut like KE. If the OC's or CTS was committed to running the "gun option" they would have not gone with a QB that did not keep the ball ONCE on a zone read option play.

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman came solely because of Gillespie (his HS coach). I am under the impression that Shuman has allegiance to Gillespie and when he gets fired/leaves, Shuman will not be far away from committing solely to baseball.

(11-30-2016 12:47 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

In my opinion, Shuman could be an above average QB in a system similar to what Troy runs. The issue with that is Georgia Southern, as evidenced by Summers promise to keep the TO, had no intention of changing offensive styles. As mentioned previously, coaches are allowed to shape Southern's success around their tradition which includes variations of an option offense.

Summer's staff isn't well versed on the style of offense that the school requires and when you couple that with a probable 4-8 record, you have a group that could be one and done.

Shuman was not offered by one other college football team in the country. He has one attribute his arm, in which is blisters in every pass at 90+mph, even on crossing routes where you need touch.

He also made poor decisions with just the slightest bit of pressure and really showed no real ability to escape pressure or make a play with his feet or turn a busted play into something like KE has since he was a freshman.

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman was a late add because we have two graduating seniors, two QB's in the waiting that were busts at that position, and another recruit in Werts that at this point was still an unknown. He was an insurance policy that we had to put into real game action because everyone else got hurt. On his few scrambles this season he's got more than enough foot speed to be dangerous in a zone read or something similar to what Fritz was running. Our OL this season flat out stunk, attributable to both coaching and talent.

I don't know that our record would have been much better had Ellison been 100% all season. When Ellison and Upshaw went down your only other two options were Shuman or Wertz (we saw what happened with LaBaron Anthony's few snaps this season). It's either burn the redshirt on a guy in Wertz who is going to have the exact same results in the running/option game as your two starters (which by the way was not very good) OR burn the redshirt on the guy who can give you a little bit of a different look on offense in hopes that it sparks something.

Don't get me wrong, the coaching staff has botched it, but Summers was genuine in his attempt to run the option, otherwise the Spring and Summer were just a big ol waste of time. With different coordinators I think he can make it work.

(11-30-2016 01:12 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman came solely because of Gillespie (his HS coach). I am under the impression that Shuman has allegiance to Gillespie and when he gets fired/leaves, Shuman will not be far away from committing solely to baseball.

Why we wasted a football scholarship on a kid that really is better at baseball is beyond me. Why are we giving the baseball team a free player? A good one at that.

(11-30-2016 01:13 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 12:47 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

In my opinion, Shuman could be an above average QB in a system similar to what Troy runs. The issue with that is Georgia Southern, as evidenced by Summers promise to keep the TO, had no intention of changing offensive styles. As mentioned previously, coaches are allowed to shape Southern's success around their tradition which includes variations of an option offense.

Summer's staff isn't well versed on the style of offense that the school requires and when you couple that with a probable 4-8 record, you have a group that could be one and done.

Shuman was not offered by one other college football team in the country. He has one attribute his arm, in which is blisters in every pass at 90+mph, even on crossing routes where you need touch.

He also made poor decisions with just the slightest bit of pressure and really showed no real ability to escape pressure or make a play with his feet or turn a busted play into something like KE has since he was a freshman.

The irony being he has a higher yards per carry than Ellison does. Of course he was also asked to do it less.

You're also talking about a kid that set records at a school that has multiple state championships. He had few offers because he was 100% sold on playing baseball until southern came along with a double offer when his former HS football coach got hired.

(11-30-2016 01:15 PM)TrueBlueAlum Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman was a late add because we have two graduating seniors, two QB's in the waiting that were busts at that position, and another recruit in Werts that at this point was still an unknown. He was an insurance policy that we had to put into real game action because everyone else got hurt. On his few scrambles this season he's got more than enough foot speed to be dangerous in a zone read or something similar to what Fritz was running. Our OL this season flat out stunk, attributable to both coaching and talent.

I don't know that our record would have been much better had Ellison been 100% all season. When Ellison and Upshaw went down your only other two options were Shuman or Wertz (we saw what happened with LaBaron Anthony's few snaps this season). It's either burn the redshirt on a guy in Wertz who is going to have the exact same results in the running/option game as your two starters (which by the way was not very good) OR burn the redshirt on the guy who can give you a little bit of a different look on offense in hopes that it sparks something.

Don't get me wrong, the coaching staff has botched it, but Summers was genuine in his attempt to run the option, otherwise the Spring and Summer were just a big ol waste of time. With different coordinators I think he can make it work.

The other two have never gotten to play a full game like Shuman did. I think another "bust" came in and won us a conference championship almost single handedly one time when he did not have another QB looking over his shoulder for once.

At best they have been given limited snaps at practice or garbage time with second and third string players.

(11-30-2016 01:18 PM)TrueBlueAlum Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:13 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 12:47 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

In my opinion, Shuman could be an above average QB in a system similar to what Troy runs. The issue with that is Georgia Southern, as evidenced by Summers promise to keep the TO, had no intention of changing offensive styles. As mentioned previously, coaches are allowed to shape Southern's success around their tradition which includes variations of an option offense.

Summer's staff isn't well versed on the style of offense that the school requires and when you couple that with a probable 4-8 record, you have a group that could be one and done.

Shuman was not offered by one other college football team in the country. He has one attribute his arm, in which is blisters in every pass at 90+mph, even on crossing routes where you need touch.

He also made poor decisions with just the slightest bit of pressure and really showed no real ability to escape pressure or make a play with his feet or turn a busted play into something like KE has since he was a freshman.

The irony being he has a higher yards per carry than Ellison does. Of course he was also asked to do it less.

Meaningless really as KE made a ton of sure sacks into gains instead of throwing it out of bounds.

(11-30-2016 01:18 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  The other two have never gotten to play a full game like Shuman did. I think another "bust" came in and won us a conference championship almost single handedly one time when he did not have another QB looking over his shoulder for once.

At best they have been given limited snaps at practice or garbage time with second and third string players.

The great Izzy debate... Izzy had the tools to lead the offense, he just had more consistent players ahead of him (that and he was battling injury most of his career).

I've watched both Garrett and McConnell in practice and scrimmages. Trust me, it's just not there at QB. Fritz saw it, Summers saw it, we had no choice but to add another QB on the roster outside of both transfers.

Don't forget that Fritz had another QB committed to us too, but he took him with him to Tulane.

Summers was quoted in an interview saying he wanted Shuman to run more and I think he's capable of doing it. I will retract something I said a bit earlier in that I do think the coaching staff held Shuman back just a little bit since he was our 3rd string QB. If he got hurt I think our only other option was to trot out another injured QB or burn another redshirt in Werts. Thankfully that didn't happen.

Why wasn't Anthony given more of a chance? Outside of Savannah St, he had what 2 snaps out of the blue, trailing, on the road, vs a soon-to-be ranked opponent? Doesn't seem like enough of a sample size to completely rule him out.

if you think that this staff was genuine in their intention to run an option offense, you are simply wrong. As was pointed out earlier, other qb's are, and have been, on the roster who were recruited to run the option and had experience in Fritz's version of the option. Instead of giving them even ONE SNAP, we declare failure of the option (because of the surprise "stack the box" defenses we were seeing, apparently for first time ever in the history of option football) and turn the offense over to a freshman qb with no option experience. Summers wasn't committed to the option, doesn't know the option, can't coach the option, and didn't hire staff who know it or can coach it. Running an option offense is not synonymous with running a unsuccessful few option plays, then calling it a day, and the mere fact that the non-option freshman qb from Valdosta was 3rd string on an alleged Option offense tells you all you need to know about the level of this staff's commitment to option football.

And the thought that you burn a redshirt on the qb who LEAST FITS your alleged offense of choice, in hopes that the "change of pace" sparks a fire, is wishful thinking at best, naïve at worst. The only team caught off guard by the change of pace to the non-option qb, and by extension, the non-option offense, was the Georgia Southern Eagles. Does Navy throw in a non-option quarterback as a "change of pace" to throw other teams (ahem, SMU) off guard? No. They plug the next in line well-coached qb into their well coached offense and have confidence that they will succeed. They don't panic, and in so doing, expose the lie that will be the undoing of this staff.

FIRE SUMMERS!

(11-30-2016 01:15 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:12 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman came solely because of Gillespie (his HS coach). I am under the impression that Shuman has allegiance to Gillespie and when he gets fired/leaves, Shuman will not be far away from committing solely to baseball.

Why we wasted a football scholarship on a kid that really is better at baseball is beyond me. Why are we giving the baseball team a free player? A good one at that.

How many scholarships do you think a baseball team gets? Shuman isn't on the roster either. He might be next year.

(11-30-2016 01:22 PM)TrueBlueAlum Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:18 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  The other two have never gotten to play a full game like Shuman did. I think another "bust" came in and won us a conference championship almost single handedly one time when he did not have another QB looking over his shoulder for once.

At best they have been given limited snaps at practice or garbage time with second and third string players.

The great Izzy debate... Izzy had the tools to lead the offense, he just had more consistent players ahead of him (that and he was battling injury most of his career).

I've watched both Garrett and McConnell in practice and scrimmages. Trust me, it's just not there at QB. Fritz saw it, Summers saw it, we had no choice but to add another QB on the roster outside of both transfers.

Don't forget that Fritz had another QB committed to us too, but he took him with him to Tulane.

Summers was quoted in an interview saying he wanted Shuman to run more and I think he's capable of doing it. I will retract something I said a bit earlier in that I do think the coaching staff held Shuman back just a little bit since he was our 3rd string QB. If he got hurt I think our only other option was to trot out another injured QB or burn another redshirt in Werts. Thankfully that didn't happen.

Like I said they though Izzy wasn't crap either in practice but he did fine with live bullets. Those kids deserved a chance more than Shuman to come in and throw three yard passed all game long.

Shuman cant run like KE and CTS even said so. He said he was "athletic", as if any 19 year old QB that works out every day isnt, but not a dynamic runner like KE. That is why Dean / CTS went with a with a injured KE if he could go over Shuman. I have seen his "runs" they are straight forward through mack truck size openings and seen him get caught from behind from d linemen. If we go with Shuman next year the option and dynamic running plays from the QB position are gone and expect a ground hog day repeat of the ULL game all year. Run up the middle twice and rocket five yard pass then punt.

(11-30-2016 03:12 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:15 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:12 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman came solely because of Gillespie (his HS coach). I am under the impression that Shuman has allegiance to Gillespie and when he gets fired/leaves, Shuman will not be far away from committing solely to baseball.

Why we wasted a football scholarship on a kid that really is better at baseball is beyond me. Why are we giving the baseball team a free player? A good one at that.

How many scholarships do you think a baseball team gets? Shuman isn't on the roster either. He might be next year.

I dont care. Baseball does not pay for baseball football does.

Well I'm glad I engaged conversation about Shuman and the inner thoughts of this offensive coaching philosophy from everyone. It was entertaining reading the post and gaining insight from everyone.

I'm still uncertain what happens in the next 4-5 days. Summers has been a major disappointment and will be better served as a defensive coach outside of the Boro.

It's time to move on from this dark chapter in Georgia Southern Football. Lets return to the type of football that made this University known as winners.

(11-30-2016 03:22 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 03:12 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:15 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 01:12 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 11:41 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shuman was a LATE add in recruiting. Why was Shuman recruited (by this staff specifically) if he can't run the style option as we did in 2014 and 2015?

These OC and Summers had no long term intentions to run the option. They knew with Senior QB's that they had to continue some aspects of the option, but 2017 season would be transformed into something closer to Air Raid than the option.

I'm done with this coaching staff and their lies. Summers is taking a strong program (with momentum) and making us average to weak!

Shuman came solely because of Gillespie (his HS coach). I am under the impression that Shuman has allegiance to Gillespie and when he gets fired/leaves, Shuman will not be far away from committing solely to baseball.

Why we wasted a football scholarship on a kid that really is better at baseball is beyond me. Why are we giving the baseball team a free player? A good one at that.

How many scholarships do you think a baseball team gets? Shuman isn't on the roster either. He might be next year.

I dont care. Baseball does not pay for baseball football does.

The answer is 11.7. Baseball is the #2 revenue generating sport at Georgia Southern. Fortunately, the boosters and AD aren't that shortsighted and do care.

My point was a supporting one. Shuman came here to play football, not baseball.

Boy this thread has really run of the tracks.

I'll try to tie it together. Summers clearly didn't have time to come on board and dial up a high 2-star or 3-star dual threat QB, but certainly did one thing right in evaluating that QB was a huge recruiting need for this class. Fritz had missed badly in year one by betting the farm on McConnell and signing just one intentionally.

That, of all things, is one of the rare things that Summers has adequately evaluated.

The decisions since then, far more curious. He essentially demoted Ellison before the season ever started to favor Upshaw and every thing else has spiraled out of control since. Injuries to Upshaw only hastened this misery.

One simply can't fault Shuman for getting a scholarship, for at least he's provided some value in return. Take a hard look at how Summers has distributed scholarships and you can see a bigger problem, if you have a discerning eye.