(10-27-2016 04:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  They had exclusive control during Reagan and Bush II. We got Medicare Part D and a lot of spending.

Not impressed.

Not the same thing. The minority can 'play games' to stop things from passing if you don't have enough votes to shut them down.

I just find it odd that one party talks about doing something and doesn't do it... and the other talks about stopping them from doing it, and you're more upset with the party that AT LEAST is talking about it than you are with the one who not only ignores it, but actively fights against it??

Can you name one D of any stature at all who has publicly supported a flat tax/fair tax? Just one!

Every one I've seen has called it 'robbing the poor and giving to the rich'... and won elections by doing that

Saying you support something and then never trying to pass it when you have control....is the same as not supporting it.

I do not care what the Republicans SAY anymore.

If the US is going to slide away, then it can do it with them sitting at home doing nothing just as easily as them sitting in Washington doing nothing.

If their sales pitch is "we'll slow down the collapse", no thanks.

(10-27-2016 03:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  How long have Republicans talked about Fair Tax, Flat Tax, Simple Tax, abolishing IRS?

40 years and NOTHING.

How long have Republicans talked about balanced budget, smaller government, reduced spending?

40 years and NOTHING.

How many times have they started something and then caved when it got warm?

Hundreds...read my lips I'll shut the government down!

The Republican Party is useless. It has only survived as the least ambitious thief out of two.

If it hasn't learned then it needs to be kicked in the head next time too and as many times as necessary until it dies or becomes a real boy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Give them 60 votes in the Senate and 60% of the House like the dems had and THEN you can blame them. Until then, they STILL need to convince 'the other side' to join them... and in those 40 years, Dems haven't ONCE talked about flat tax/fair tax except to mischaracterize it.

I'm serious.

The Republicans have had House, Senate and Presidency only 6 years since 1932, 1953-55 and 2003-2007. In 53-55, they had a 2 seat advantage in Senate and 8 in the House. In 03-05, they had a 2 seat advantage in Senate and 24 in the House. In 05-07, they had a 10 seat advantage in the Senate and 29 in the House. Except for 2 years, their advantage has been miniscule.

(10-27-2016 03:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  How long have Republicans talked about Fair Tax, Flat Tax, Simple Tax, abolishing IRS?

40 years and NOTHING.

How long have Republicans talked about balanced budget, smaller government, reduced spending?

40 years and NOTHING.

How many times have they started something and then caved when it got warm?

Hundreds...read my lips I'll shut the government down!

The Republican Party is useless. It has only survived as the least ambitious thief out of two.

If it hasn't learned then it needs to be kicked in the head next time too and as many times as necessary until it dies or becomes a real boy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Give them 60 votes in the Senate and 60% of the House like the dems had and THEN you can blame them. Until then, they STILL need to convince 'the other side' to join them... and in those 40 years, Dems haven't ONCE talked about flat tax/fair tax except to mischaracterize it.

I'm serious.

They had exclusive control during Reagan and Bush II. We got Medicare Part D and a lot of spending.

Not impressed.

Talk about uninformed. The Republicans were vastly outnumbered in the House during the Reagan years. They only had the Senate 6 of 8 years. The Republicans had the House in 1931. And then again from 47-49 and 53-55 and not again until 1995.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divi...Congresses

Here's a link for the uninformed.

Mid 90s was the year they really could have tried harder.

Anyone remember the Contract with America.

You guys are missing the forest for the trees.

Has ANY Democrat EVER embraced flat/fair taxes or a VAT or anything like that in this country?

No. In fact they have ALWAYS called it robbing the poor to give to the rich...

THUS, UNLESS YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN YOU CAN PASS IT, supporting such a thing is political suicide. I don't care HOW much you or I might like it, 'the people' would not, because people's FEARS are greater than their smarts.

Flat Tax is to democrats what obamacare is to republicans.

AT LEAST Republicans are talking about it (positively). Be mad at them for not passing it, but be MORE mad at democrats for villianizing it.

(10-27-2016 03:40 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I hope it dies...

Well, lets be honest - the Democratic party is just as corrupt and inept. At this point, they just do a better job of cheating and smearing......AND, they have the media covering for them......

I'm convinced that the US would be much better off if that whole cesspool of D.C. were wiped off the map.....

Do you mean like in the show, "The Designated Survivor?"

(10-27-2016 04:51 PM)DFWMINER Wrote:  Mid 90s was the year they really could have tried harder.

Anyone remember the Contract with America.

They got welfare reform passed. But they still had Bill Clinton in the presidency.

(10-27-2016 04:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  How long have Republicans talked about Fair Tax, Flat Tax, Simple Tax, abolishing IRS?

40 years and NOTHING.

How long have Republicans talked about balanced budget, smaller government, reduced spending?

40 years and NOTHING.

How many times have they started something and then caved when it got warm?

Hundreds...read my lips I'll shut the government down!

The Republican Party is useless. It has only survived as the least ambitious thief out of two.

If it hasn't learned then it needs to be kicked in the head next time too and as many times as necessary until it dies or becomes a real boy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Give them 60 votes in the Senate and 60% of the House like the dems had and THEN you can blame them. Until then, they STILL need to convince 'the other side' to join them... and in those 40 years, Dems haven't ONCE talked about flat tax/fair tax except to mischaracterize it.

I'm serious.

They had exclusive control during Reagan and Bush II. We got Medicare Part D and a lot of spending.

Not impressed.

Talk about uninformed. The Republicans were vastly outnumbered in the House during the Reagan years. They only had the Senate 6 of 8 years. The Republicans had the House in 1931. And then again from 47-49 and 53-55 and not again until 1995.

Brain fart. I actually lived through it.

The point remains though. They had the opportunity to do something, they didn't. Democrats certainly took their opportunity with Obamacare. No matter how unpopular, they shoved it through anyway.

With an opportunity to reduce the deficit we get Medicare Part D and the budget blown out.

When they do try something, it is poorly thought out and they cave. Like shutting down the government. Pulling a stunt and then not following through is just stupid. Either do it or don't.

They could chip away at Obamacare with the power of the purse. They do not. They could punish the IRS for outrageous partisanship with the power of the purse. They do not. They could punish the State Department for stonewalling and covering up with the power of the purse, they do not.

The Democrats have a KKK Grand Wizard and they back him 100% for a century. A Republican wishes Strom Thurmond Happy Birthday and Republicans throw him out on his ear.

They aren't serious. They aren't actually trying. They are doing the minimum. They are playing games to keep their positions. People are tired of it and as soon as they got a chance they burned them down with Trump.

They probably ought to think about trying harder.

(10-27-2016 06:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The point remains though. They had the opportunity to do something, they didn't. Democrats certainly took their opportunity with Obamacare. No matter how unpopular, they shoved it through anyway.

It took 60 in the senate to pass Obamacare. When that fell to 59, they had to play chickenspit parliamentary games to drag it over the finish line. Republicans have never had 60 in the senate.

(10-27-2016 05:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You guys are missing the forest for the trees.

Has ANY Democrat EVER embraced flat/fair taxes or a VAT or anything like that in this country?

No. In fact they have ALWAYS called it robbing the poor to give to the rich...

THUS, UNLESS YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN YOU CAN PASS IT, supporting such a thing is political suicide. I don't care HOW much you or I might like it, 'the people' would not, because people's FEARS are greater than their smarts.

Flat Tax is to democrats what obamacare is to republicans.

AT LEAST Republicans are talking about it (positively). Be mad at them for not passing it, but be MORE mad at democrats for villianizing it.

No Democrat supports tax reform...because it would actually do more to help the less fortunate in our society than ALL their polices combined. It would create prosperity for these people. That is the LAST thing they want. They WANT and NEED for people to be less fortunate. Otherwise...They have no usefulness anymore.

(10-27-2016 06:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 06:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The point remains though. They had the opportunity to do something, they didn't. Democrats certainly took their opportunity with Obamacare. No matter how unpopular, they shoved it through anyway.

It took 60 in the senate to pass Obamacare. When that fell to 59, they had to play chickenspit parliamentary games to drag it over the finish line. Republicans have never had 60 in the senate.

Whatever it is it ain't working. A whole lot of Republicans said screw it, time to try other stuff. A lot of people are no longer listening to why they can't do anything.

(10-27-2016 02:51 PM)bullet Wrote:  You have to understand the issues. Things like NAFTA have contributed to a decimation of our manufacturing base. What has happened is policy makers have decided it is a net positive for the country. And they have pretty much completely ignored the fact that it is not a net positive for everyone. We haven't really done anything for those people. They are just collateral damage.
You aren't disqualified from designing policies to help non-college educated just because you are college educated. But our policy makers are too insulated and haven't really even recognized the problem.

NAFTA is not the real problem. The real problem is that our tax policies and regulatory processes chase investment and jobs offshore. Democrats don't want to admit this and have to address those issues (although Bowles-Simpson and Domenici-Rivlin both determined on a bipartisan basis that they needed to be addressed), so they come up with NAFTA as a convenient boogeyman. Except when they actually have to vote on it, they vote for free trade agreements because bottom line, they do more good than harm.

The person who loses his/her job to Mexico was going to lose it anyway, because of our own tax and regulatory climate. That job was going to go somewhere that would be better on both accounts. The fact that it ended up in Mexico may be due to NAFTA, but it was never going to stay in the USA.

Plenty of jobs have gone to places other than Mexico or Canada. NAFTA had absolutely zero to do with any of them. Many jobs have gone to Asia. TPP had absolutely zero to do with any of them, because TPP is not in effect yet. I keep hearing how other countries with whom we have free trade agreements supposedly charge tariffs on imports from the US and subsidize exports to the US. They don't, they have national consumption taxes. Since we don't have a national consumption tax, we can't do the same thing. If we try to retaliate with tariffs, we violate international law. I thought the left was big on international law.

(10-27-2016 06:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 05:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You guys are missing the forest for the trees.

Has ANY Democrat EVER embraced flat/fair taxes or a VAT or anything like that in this country?

No. In fact they have ALWAYS called it robbing the poor to give to the rich...

THUS, UNLESS YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN YOU CAN PASS IT, supporting such a thing is political suicide. I don't care HOW much you or I might like it, 'the people' would not, because people's FEARS are greater than their smarts.

Flat Tax is to democrats what obamacare is to republicans.

AT LEAST Republicans are talking about it (positively). Be mad at them for not passing it, but be MORE mad at democrats for villianizing it.

No Democrat supports tax reform...because it would actually do more to help the less fortunate in our society than ALL their polices combined. It would create prosperity for these people. That is the LAST thing they want. They WANT and NEED for people to be less fortunate. Otherwise...They have no usefulness anymore.

I don't disagree... In fact, I agree 100%.

I just don't see being mad at Republicans for not doing something that would get Democrats elected in their place.

I'm okay with blowing it all up (figuratively). I'm just not okay with only blowing up the side that has the right ideas, even if they lack the conviction.

(10-27-2016 02:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 02:40 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 02:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.nationalreview.com/article/44...rebuilding

Talks about asking the right questions. And asks 12 good questions. But I think the author misses the point as he is too much of an insider.

The one key takeaway is that DC has focused too much on college educated people who are a minority of the population. They have established policies that favored those people and ignored working people without college degrees. They are merely collateral damage.

The Democrats claim to be for those people, but they have also pushed trade deals and refused to strictly enforce existing ones, while pushing policies that drive up the cost of living, such as their attacks on energy. All that in addition to their regulatory regimes which make it difficult for small business.

If someone out there had Trump's ideas, Trump's fight, and Trump's instincts, without the womanizing background, it would be a clear winner. It just might be a winner nonetheless.

No one has more respect for women than Trump. Don't let the floozies that Trump has never even met that they paying to lie fool you. They would have done the same for any other candidate, it's the only card they have.

Those floozies are 4's and less. Woman love Trump.

The future is that this is Trump's party now.

(10-27-2016 06:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 04:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 03:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  How long have Republicans talked about Fair Tax, Flat Tax, Simple Tax, abolishing IRS?

40 years and NOTHING.

How long have Republicans talked about balanced budget, smaller government, reduced spending?

40 years and NOTHING.

How many times have they started something and then caved when it got warm?

Hundreds...read my lips I'll shut the government down!

The Republican Party is useless. It has only survived as the least ambitious thief out of two.

If it hasn't learned then it needs to be kicked in the head next time too and as many times as necessary until it dies or becomes a real boy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Give them 60 votes in the Senate and 60% of the House like the dems had and THEN you can blame them. Until then, they STILL need to convince 'the other side' to join them... and in those 40 years, Dems haven't ONCE talked about flat tax/fair tax except to mischaracterize it.

I'm serious.

They had exclusive control during Reagan and Bush II. We got Medicare Part D and a lot of spending.

Not impressed.

Talk about uninformed. The Republicans were vastly outnumbered in the House during the Reagan years. They only had the Senate 6 of 8 years. The Republicans had the House in 1931. And then again from 47-49 and 53-55 and not again until 1995.

Brain fart. I actually lived through it.

The point remains though. They had the opportunity to do something, they didn't. Democrats certainly took their opportunity with Obamacare. No matter how unpopular, they shoved it through anyway.

With an opportunity to reduce the deficit we get Medicare Part D and the budget blown out.

When they do try something, it is poorly thought out and they cave. Like shutting down the government. Pulling a stunt and then not following through is just stupid. Either do it or don't.

They could chip away at Obamacare with the power of the purse. They do not. They could punish the IRS for outrageous partisanship with the power of the purse. They do not. They could punish the State Department for stonewalling and covering up with the power of the purse, they do not.

The Democrats have a KKK Grand Wizard and they back him 100% for a century. A Republican wishes Strom Thurmond Happy Birthday and Republicans throw him out on his ear.

They aren't serious. They aren't actually trying. They are doing the minimum. They are playing games to keep their positions. People are tired of it and as soon as they got a chance they burned them down with Trump.

They probably ought to think about trying harder.

Granted, the Republicans did poorly from 2003-2007. They could have done more and thought they had "permanent" majorities in the Senate and House. They also had too many professional politicians. My biggest disappointment with W. is he didn't try to reign them in. He made other mistakes, but he didn't really try to direct the Senate and House.

But they weren't without accomplishments in those years. And they were somewhat fiscally limited by the war on terrorism and the recession created by 9/11.

Lol. This thread reminds me why libertarians are outright insane.

(10-27-2016 06:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 02:51 PM)bullet Wrote:  You have to understand the issues. Things like NAFTA have contributed to a decimation of our manufacturing base. What has happened is policy makers have decided it is a net positive for the country. And they have pretty much completely ignored the fact that it is not a net positive for everyone. We haven't really done anything for those people. They are just collateral damage.
You aren't disqualified from designing policies to help non-college educated just because you are college educated. But our policy makers are too insulated and haven't really even recognized the problem.

NAFTA is not the real problem. The real problem is that our tax policies and regulatory processes chase investment and jobs offshore. Democrats don't want to admit this and have to address those issues (although Bowles-Simpson and Domenici-Rivlin both determined on a bipartisan basis that they needed to be addressed), so they come up with NAFTA as a convenient boogeyman. Except when they actually have to vote on it, they vote for free trade agreements because bottom line, they do more good than harm.

The person who loses his/her job to Mexico was going to lose it anyway, because of our own tax and regulatory climate. That job was going to go somewhere that would be better on both accounts. The fact that it ended up in Mexico may be due to NAFTA, but it was never going to stay in the USA.

Plenty of jobs have gone to places other than Mexico or Canada. NAFTA had absolutely zero to do with any of them. Many jobs have gone to Asia. TPP had absolutely zero to do with any of them, because TPP is not in effect yet. I keep hearing how other countries with whom we have free trade agreements supposedly charge tariffs on imports from the US and subsidize exports to the US. They don't, they have national consumption taxes. Since we don't have a national consumption tax, we can't do the same thing. If we try to retaliate with tariffs, we violate international law. I thought the left was big on international law.

I would still do NAFTA. But the fact is that it created winners and losers and we ignored the losers. We can't continue to do that.

(10-27-2016 07:39 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  The future is that this is Trump's party now.

Yep. This isn't going away no matter what happens until the swamp is drained and all the toilets flushed.

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