(03-22-2016 06:14 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

Lots of logical disconnects there.

I don't think any of us have ever accused Fit of being logical.............

(03-22-2016 03:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 03:32 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:52 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  That's exactly the problem.

I thought the problem was institutional racism at charter schools? Which is it?

Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

More incoherent ramblings of a doofus that wears racist glasses. Hey Fit - don't forget that Charters get paid by the student - the color they most see is green.

With that said, if I were running a private charter school I wouldn't put up with a kid that was disruptive.

You can't make me believe that someone that get's paid by the student is going to kick out money in the bank because they are black.

So you don't have a problem with a school system that is simply looking to make a profit rather than actually teaching children?

Depends on if the kids are getting taught... If you're not caught up in the the petty politics of envy then all you should care about is where do keds get a better education.

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:52 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:43 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Charter schools do better (to the extent that they actually do) because they don't have to take just anybody. They have better students on average, therefore they do better. If you took the whole public school population and sent them to similar charter schools, I bet the overall education would not improve.

That's exactly the problem.

I thought the problem was institutional racism at charter schools? Which is it?

Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

BOLD - Untrue blanket statement which varies by state.

(03-22-2016 03:02 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:43 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Charter schools do better (to the extent that they actually do) because they don't have to take just anybody. They have better students on average, therefore they do better. If you took the whole public school population and sent them to similar charter schools, I bet the overall education would not improve.

That's exactly the problem.

Black Americans are 12.6% of the population, yet charter schools are made up of 30% black students. What's the problem?

US Demographics
Black Demographics on education

(One source is wiki, the other is something weird that I've never heard of but was on the front page google results)

So evidently charter schools are not excluding anybody based on race. So where is the racial discrimination? Are you sjw bleeding hearts upset that many charters use a "no excuses" policy?

Time to see him explain this one away...

(03-22-2016 03:35 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I'm just trying to figure out why charter schools would be any better than non-charter schools (note - I don't follow this story closely).

There are no solid answers and tings vary form state to state but I willdo my best.

Quote:Do they have more money?

Typically no. In most states Charters get a fraction (a large fraction) of what the public schools get. Usually between 80-95%.

Quote:Are they lucky in their hiring of teachers?

Usually yes. Charters tend to have more involved parents who hold their kids more accountable so that while a teacher usually earns a little less at a charter the environment is a lot less hostile.

Quote:Are they in better areas?

Some are and some are not. The charters which do the best against other schools in their districts tend to be in bad areas. My first kids charter wsa in a great district and they were on par or a little above the district. Their new charter is in a bad district but they perform as well as the old school and hence much better against the district.

Quote:Does it take some work for parents to get their kids in there (thus selecting for parents who give a crap)?

Not a whole lot of work. You need to apply and then schools hold a lottery. Our first time we applied to two schools. Got wait listed on one 25/70 on the waiting list and got into the other.

The real scam charters are virtual charters. They are just private enterprise efforts to make money off the taxpayers. North Carolina's legislature mandated that two virtual charters be approved to start operations here. It just so happened that there were two for profit online school operations that had been lobbying for this and they are creating a huge mess. The instructional quality offered is pathetic. Results in other states show students falling way behind their peers in traditional public, private and normal charters. Money is flowing into their coffers and the taxpayers are getting the shaft. There are accounts from other states of outsourcing the grading essays to India, the on-line teachers are given huge student loads resulting in little contact between pupils and teachers.

(03-22-2016 04:25 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 03:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 03:32 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:52 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I thought the problem was institutional racism at charter schools? Which is it?

Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

More incoherent ramblings of a doofus that wears racist glasses. Hey Fit - don't forget that Charters get paid by the student - the color they most see is green.

With that said, if I were running a private charter school I wouldn't put up with a kid that was disruptive.

You can't make me believe that someone that get's paid by the student is going to kick out money in the bank because they are black.

So you don't have a problem with a school system that is simply looking to make a profit rather than actually teaching children?

No dummy. I was addressing your theory that Charter schools kick black kids out because they are black. It had nothing to do with if they taught kids or not - it had a lot to do with "Why would they kick kids out when they get paid by the number of students they have attending".

If you don't think publics keep track of number of students (they get state funding on a per pupil basis as well) attending, you really don't have a clue of how this all works.

All schools - public, charter, private get funds based on number of students attending............

I never said that. I simply posted evidence that charter schools suspend blacks more than public schools.

(03-22-2016 05:46 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

What 'major' country doesn't have a dark history of racism/nationalism/segregation/discrimination etc.

Many animals are guilty of this same sort of thing as well

Fit has demonstrated the exact reason why we will never be able to move beyond the darkest part of our history. People will continue to use it for their own gain, whether political, or monetary.

What was does not necessarily dictate what is or is to come in this case.

that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

(03-22-2016 08:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:46 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

What 'major' country doesn't have a dark history of racism/nationalism/segregation/discrimination etc.

Many animals are guilty of this same sort of thing as well

Fit has demonstrated the exact reason why we will never be able to move beyond the darkest part of our history. People will continue to use it for their own gain, whether political, or monetary.

What was does not necessarily dictate what is or is to come in this case.

that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:46 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Please pay attention. The problem with charter schools is that they don't have to take everyone. For this reason, they are allowed to discriminate. Since we live in a country that has a very dark history in racism, it is more susceptible to the practice.

What 'major' country doesn't have a dark history of racism/nationalism/segregation/discrimination etc.

Many animals are guilty of this same sort of thing as well

Fit has demonstrated the exact reason why we will never be able to move beyond the darkest part of our history. People will continue to use it for their own gain, whether political, or monetary.

What was does not necessarily dictate what is or is to come in this case.

that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:46 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  What 'major' country doesn't have a dark history of racism/nationalism/segregation/discrimination etc.

Many animals are guilty of this same sort of thing as well

Fit has demonstrated the exact reason why we will never be able to move beyond the darkest part of our history. People will continue to use it for their own gain, whether political, or monetary.

What was does not necessarily dictate what is or is to come in this case.

that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:46 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  What 'major' country doesn't have a dark history of racism/nationalism/segregation/discrimination etc.

Many animals are guilty of this same sort of thing as well

Fit has demonstrated the exact reason why we will never be able to move beyond the darkest part of our history. People will continue to use it for their own gain, whether political, or monetary.

What was does not necessarily dictate what is or is to come in this case.

that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

his schtick is as 'worn out' like the condom I only used for target practice.....

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:46 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Fit has demonstrated the exact reason why we will never be able to move beyond the darkest part of our history. People will continue to use it for their own gain, whether political, or monetary.

What was does not necessarily dictate what is or is to come in this case.

that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

I answered that a few pages ago. It is the breakdown of the nuclear family.

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

Where have you established that they do?

(03-22-2016 09:24 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  that ol' boy doesn't understand how much he contributes to all the problems that currently exists....edit: <sic for plurality>

hence, the problem....

You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

I answered that a few pages ago. It is the breakdown of the nuclear family.

That would be one factor considering we incarcerate blacks at 6x's the rate of whites.

(03-22-2016 09:27 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:24 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  You can't make slaves of people for over 250 years and then expect them to forget about it. Actions have consequences.

No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

I answered that a few pages ago. It is the breakdown of the nuclear family.

That would be one factor considering we incarcerate blacks at 6x's the rate of whites.

But if blacks are committing the crimes at 6x the rates, then what?

(03-22-2016 09:29 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:27 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:24 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  No current American has been a slave.

My English ancestors were attacked and pillaged by Vikings. Maybe one of my Italian or Ukrainian ancestors were captured by Islamic slave traders. None of those situations would justify my misbehavior in school. I wasn't pillaged or captured. All those people are doing is abusing their ancestors' pain for their own gain.

No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

I answered that a few pages ago. It is the breakdown of the nuclear family.

That would be one factor considering we incarcerate blacks at 6x's the rate of whites.

But if blacks are committing the crimes at 6x the rates, then what?

Are they? Or are they just convicted more often?

(03-22-2016 09:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:29 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:27 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:24 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

I answered that a few pages ago. It is the breakdown of the nuclear family.

That would be one factor considering we incarcerate blacks at 6x's the rate of whites.

But if blacks are committing the crimes at 6x the rates, then what?

Are they? Or are they just convicted more often?

You seem to have the answers and the numbers.

(03-22-2016 09:31 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:29 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:27 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:24 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I answered that a few pages ago. It is the breakdown of the nuclear family.

That would be one factor considering we incarcerate blacks at 6x's the rate of whites.

But if blacks are committing the crimes at 6x the rates, then what?

Are they? Or are they just convicted more often?

You seem to have the answers and the numbers.

It's a proven fact specifically with drug convictions.

(03-22-2016 09:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  No one is justifying bad behavior. They are questioning why charter schools believe blacks have more of it.

Where have you established that they do?

it's called 'cliques'.....you know how that works too....

I don't get why you guys play with any of......