(05-07-2015 12:10 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  811 doesn't help inside a plant, where the lines are the plant's responsibility, not the utility company's.

At a refinery that had been established in 1912 and expanded an upgraded many times since then, the owner's had dutifully accumulated drawings from over the years. The underground lines I was concerned with dated from the 1950's through mid-70's. The drawings were small-scale plant plot plans with the underground piping shown as a dashed line along the general route. At least by knowing where it was coming from and going to and assuming it ran in a straight line, I knew its location to within a few feet, but not its depth. If an underground line actually needed to be found, the only way was to cautiously dig a slit trench perpendicular to its route, and clank marks the spot.

I didn't deal with any of these, but sometimes excavations would come across mystery lines. What to do if you discover a 6" steel pipe that isn't on any drawing and nobody at the plant has any idea what it's for? It's probably an abandoned line from long ago, but even so that doesn't mean it's empty...

Small lines are sometimes just field-routed, no precise drawings at all. Another story I have is of a plant that was aware of a 1 1/2" natural gas line somewhere in the grassy area where they needed to dig, but it too showed on drawings only as a dashed line sketches across a plot plan. They tried detectors, no dice - they don't work nearly as well as they do in TV crime dramas. They found it the old-fashioned way. (No harm done)

Especially when it comes to plants in high traffic areas, 811 is still helpful, and mandatory from my understanding. I've had jobs on facilities in major refining areas where 811 was a necessity and locators came to the boundary of the site to discuss the lines that ran underneath the facility. From my experience, all lines running through a site aren't necessarily owned by the site operator.

And you're right that the detectors don't always work, especially if lines aren't laid with marking tape. I've had a site where locators marked the X, Y, and Z lines, but somehow they didn't pick up the electrical line in the same area which the trencher went straight through. Or when the facility manager had no knowledge of the electrical conduit our drill rig went through that powered some of their major equipment - and this location was verified as being clear by the client and the locator. Fun times.

(05-07-2015 10:46 AM)Caelligh Wrote:  Facilities & Engineering kept hard copies of plans (on paper, mylar, and linen) when I was on campus in the '90s. Copies were also on microfiche.

Rice ought to sell prints of the more interesting plans! Below is a photo of a portion of my copy of one of the Lovett Hall elevations.

That is beautiful!

Back to the original thread, today there seems to be a lot of activity, including a concrete pumper, around the little building going up on the left (west) side of the construction zone.

(05-07-2015 12:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-07-2015 12:10 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  811 doesn't help inside a plant, where the lines are the plant's responsibility, not the utility company's.

At a refinery that had been established in 1912 and expanded an upgraded many times since then, the owner's had dutifully accumulated drawings from over the years. The underground lines I was concerned with dated from the 1950's through mid-70's. The drawings were small-scale plant plot plans with the underground piping shown as a dashed line along the general route. At least by knowing where it was coming from and going to and assuming it ran in a straight line, I knew its location to within a few feet, but not its depth. If an underground line actually needed to be found, the only way was to cautiously dig a slit trench perpendicular to its route, and clank marks the spot.

I didn't deal with any of these, but sometimes excavations would come across mystery lines. What to do if you discover a 6" steel pipe that isn't on any drawing and nobody at the plant has any idea what it's for? It's probably an abandoned line from long ago, but even so that doesn't mean it's empty...

Small lines are sometimes just field-routed, no precise drawings at all. Another story I have is of a plant that was aware of a 1 1/2" natural gas line somewhere in the grassy area where they needed to dig, but it too showed on drawings only as a dashed line sketches across a plot plan. They tried detectors, no dice - they don't work nearly as well as they do in TV crime dramas. They found it the old-fashioned way. (No harm done)

Especially when it comes to plants in high traffic areas, 811 is still helpful, and mandatory from my understanding. I've had jobs on facilities in major refining areas where 811 was a necessity and locators came to the boundary of the site to discuss the lines that ran underneath the facility. From my experience, all lines running through a site aren't necessarily owned by the site operator.

And you're right that the detectors don't always work, especially if lines aren't laid with marking tape. I've had a site where locators marked the X, Y, and Z lines, but somehow they didn't pick up the electrical line in the same area which the trencher went straight through. Or when the facility manager had no knowledge of the electrical conduit our drill rig went through that powered some of their major equipment - and this location was verified as being clear by the client and the locator. Fun times.

Or sometimes they won't be on any maps due to national security reasons. Got a "funny" story of a construction crew in Tysons Corner who unexpectedly hit a fiber optics bundle while digging, then shortly found themselves surrounded by black Suburbans with rather intense passengers to whom they had to explain a few things.

(05-07-2015 03:08 PM)gsloth Wrote:  Or sometimes they won't be on any maps due to national security reasons. Got a "funny" story of a construction crew in Tysons Corner who unexpectedly hit a fiber optics bundle while digging, then shortly found themselves surrounded by black Suburbans with rather intense passengers to whom they had to explain a few things.

gsloth, were you involved in, or merely referring to, this incident, described in the May 31, 2009, Washington Post?

Amy Gardner Wrote:This part happens all the time: A construction crew putting up an office building in the heart of Tysons Corner a few years ago hit a fiber optic cable no one knew was there.

This part doesn't: Within moments, three black sport-utility vehicles drove up, a half-dozen men in suits jumped out and one said, "You just hit our line."

Whose line, you may ask? The guys in suits didn't say, recalled Aaron Georgelas, whose company, the Georgelas Group, was developing the Greensboro Corporate Center on Spring Hill Road. But Georgelas assumed that he was dealing with the federal government and that the cable in question was "black" wire -- a secure communications line used for some of the nation's most secretive intelligence-gathering operations.

"The construction manager was shocked," Georgelas recalled. "He had never seen a line get cut and people show up within seconds. Usually you've got to figure out whose line it is. To garner that kind of response that quickly was amazing."

Black wire is one of the looming perils of the massive construction that has come to Tysons, where miles and miles of secure lines are thought to serve such nearby agencies as the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the National Counterterrorism Center and, a few miles away in McLean, the Central Intelligence Agency. After decades spent cutting through red tape to begin work on a Metrorail extension and the widening of the Capital Beltway, crews are now stirring up tons of dirt where the black lines are located.
. . .

(05-07-2015 02:25 PM)rice-76-03-06 Wrote:  Back to the original thread, today there seems to be a lot of activity, including a concrete pumper, around the little building going up on the left (west) side of the construction zone.

I wonder if that's gonna be the offices of the contractor and engineers and architects, or if it will be some sort of observation deck. Contractors usually just bring in a small mobile home for themselves.

(05-07-2015 04:34 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(05-07-2015 02:25 PM)rice-76-03-06 Wrote:  Back to the original thread, today there seems to be a lot of activity, including a concrete pumper, around the little building going up on the left (west) side of the construction zone.

I wonder if that's gonna be the offices of the contractor and engineers and architects, or if it will be some sort of observation deck. Contractors usually just bring in a small mobile home for themselves.

I parked in the Greenbriar lot when I went to the game last night, so I drove right by the construction. I was looking at it from a different angle than the camera gives, but I believe that "little building" is actually a concrete block structure that is being built from the ground up and doesn't sit on any of the existing stadium structure.

If you go back and look at the original renderings, there DOES appear to be 'building' all the way over there.

And the obverse of the EZF, which I've been unable to find anywhere else…
Interesting that this view does not include the top of the scoreboard, which ought to be visible.
I also find the unadorned scoreboard in the other two images somewhat refreshing.

Nice. I havn't seen this one before. I have a feeling the rest of the stadium redo will match the EZF. If that's true, most of it will probably be painted white. I notice the columns and parts of the upper decks are painted white.

(05-07-2015 05:04 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If you go back and look at the original renderings, there DOES appear to be 'building' all the way over there.

Where are you seeing these "original renderings"?
I've only been able to find the two (three) drawings, and I don't see that small building on the west side of the "goal line stand" image.

(05-07-2015 07:43 PM)Grungy Wrote:  And the obverse of the EZF, which I've been unable to find anywhere else…
Interesting that this view does not include the top of the scoreboard, which ought to be visible.
I also find the unadorned scoreboard in the other two images somewhat refreshing.

I have not seen this view before.

(05-07-2015 07:43 PM)Grungy Wrote:  And the obverse of the EZF, which I've been unable to find anywhere else…
Interesting that this view does not include the top of the scoreboard, which ought to be visible.
I also find the unadorned scoreboard in the other two images somewhat refreshing.

If there is a structure at the other end of the facility like the one to the left, behind the four evergreens, that would be consistent with what I saw from the Greenbriar lot, which was a concrete block structure without windows.

(05-08-2015 09:13 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(05-07-2015 05:04 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If you go back and look at the original renderings, there DOES appear to be 'building' all the way over there.

Where are you seeing these "original renderings"?
I've only been able to find the two (three) drawings, and I don't see that small building on the west side of the "goal line stand" image.

http://news.rice.edu/wp-content/uploads/...lding1.jpg

I don't see the small building by itself, which is why I said 'building'... rather than 'a building'... If that area is going to be restrooms or concessions or something else, and the brick front in the rendering is mostly a facade, perhaps it is a way around some sort of ADA type issue by having it be a free-standing building connected only by a facade? Obviously just a wild guess... but it certainly appears to me that there is going to be 'building' where they are putting what currently appears to be a smaller concrete building.

The brick wall certainly seems to extend to where that building is going.

(05-07-2015 04:18 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(05-07-2015 03:08 PM)gsloth Wrote:  Or sometimes they won't be on any maps due to national security reasons. Got a "funny" story of a construction crew in Tysons Corner who unexpectedly hit a fiber optics bundle while digging, then shortly found themselves surrounded by black Suburbans with rather intense passengers to whom they had to explain a few things.

gsloth, were you involved in, or merely referring to, this incident, described in the May 31, 2009, Washington Post?

Amy Gardner Wrote:This part happens all the time: A construction crew putting up an office building in the heart of Tysons Corner a few years ago hit a fiber optic cable no one knew was there.

This part doesn't: Within moments, three black sport-utility vehicles drove up, a half-dozen men in suits jumped out and one said, "You just hit our line."

Whose line, you may ask? The guys in suits didn't say, recalled Aaron Georgelas, whose company, the Georgelas Group, was developing the Greensboro Corporate Center on Spring Hill Road. But Georgelas assumed that he was dealing with the federal government and that the cable in question was "black" wire -- a secure communications line used for some of the nation's most secretive intelligence-gathering operations.

"The construction manager was shocked," Georgelas recalled. "He had never seen a line get cut and people show up within seconds. Usually you've got to figure out whose line it is. To garner that kind of response that quickly was amazing."

Black wire is one of the looming perils of the massive construction that has come to Tysons, where miles and miles of secure lines are thought to serve such nearby agencies as the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the National Counterterrorism Center and, a few miles away in McLean, the Central Intelligence Agency. After decades spent cutting through red tape to begin work on a Metrorail extension and the widening of the Capital Beltway, crews are now stirring up tons of dirt where the black lines are located.
. . .

I was not involved, but that's the incident. I used to work right around the corner (20 years ago) and am familiar with that access road, Clyde's Restaurant, and that oddly placed tower. (Though not really odd - it's the highest point in Fairfax County. I used to have a west-facing corner office on that same hill and could watch planes landing at Dulles and see to the mountains on a clear day.)

Construction as of this morning.



The gate was open when I was cycling through campus so I went in to take a look. The building that was previously discussed looks to be further west than the main building renderings. I can't imagine that it's part of the main structure and already up long before the other parts. Looking at it from afar a couple of possibilities popped into my head.

- It's for storage of equipment later. It has those two openings on the front that are big enough to drive a car/cart/tractor in.
- Those two openings are far apart, so maybe they're for mens and womens restroom entrances.
- It's there to replace the ticket office/entrance that was demolished at that corner. This seems like more of a long-shot considering the placement and look of the building.

Brick structure arising from the mud now has a black surface - likely a water-proofing layer before something else is applied/installed.
There's two people working in the pond that is the site, at the moment.

Not that any work is being done today, but the camera is down again @ 10:30, the 24th.

(05-24-2015 10:31 AM)Da.Owl Wrote:  Not that any work is being done today, but the camera is down again @ 10:30, the 24th.

I'd be willing to bet that crazy storm Sunday morning knocked it out.

I have wondered what that sad looking shack behind the goal post is for years. It really is not attractive and seems like it is a potential danger to athletes. And I see it is still there in the artist rendering. It must be a very important edifice if they couldn't find a way to move it to one of the end zone corners.