(01-20-2014 06:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Socialism isn't inherently bad, just like Capitalism or Conservatism.

You're right, except it fails wherever it is tried as a replacement for capitalism. Face it, governments are crappy at correctly allocating the means of production and are just as crooked as governments of capitalist countries. However, it's bigger failing is ignoring the human nature of individuals being much more willing to work hard IF they keep the fruits of their labor.

Of course, in theory socialism works - practically - it doesn't.

What about those who don't like him because of his general incompetence?

(01-20-2014 07:45 PM)Smaug Wrote:  What about those who don't like him because of his general incompetence?

There is that, but he has always been around 15% approval in the old confederacy.

(01-19-2014 04:42 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd normally jump on any comment concerning race and the President, but the OP stretches what Obama said. I actually agree with his comments and think race works both ways on people's impression of him; however, I'd argue the EXTENT of each side of the coin is nowhere near equitable, fueled by the MSM, black voting block loyalty, and "white guilt".

I agree on the first point.

Nobody can really tell on the second. It's totally subjective.

(01-20-2014 07:23 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Socialism isn't inherently bad, just like Capitalism or Conservatism.

You're right, except it fails wherever it is tried as a replacement for capitalism. Face it, governments are crappy at correctly allocating the means of production and are just as crooked as governments of capitalist countries. However, it's bigger failing is ignoring the human nature of individuals being much more willing to work hard IF they keep the fruits of their labor.

Of course, in theory socialism works - practically - it doesn't.

Modern democratic socialism is far from a failure though, and that's still left of the most left democrats. The concern over socialism isn't nearly as compelling as people try to make it.

(01-21-2014 12:24 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Modern democratic socialism is far from a failure though, and that's still left of the most left democrats. The concern over socialism isn't nearly as compelling as people try to make it.

Wow, you're defending utter failure. Why am I not surprised about that?

(01-21-2014 12:24 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 07:23 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Socialism isn't inherently bad, just like Capitalism or Conservatism.

You're right, except it fails wherever it is tried as a replacement for capitalism. Face it, governments are crappy at correctly allocating the means of production and are just as crooked as governments of capitalist countries. However, it's bigger failing is ignoring the human nature of individuals being much more willing to work hard IF they keep the fruits of their labor.

Of course, in theory socialism works - practically - it doesn't.

Modern democratic socialism is far from a failure though, and that's still left of the most left democrats. The concern over socialism isn't nearly as compelling as people try to make it.

I think it depends a great deal on the level of government intervention in the economy. I think also that a country's size and population have a very direct effect on the success or failure of socialistic policies. The smaller and more homogeneous the population - the better the chances of it's success.

How you believe that more government intervention is a good thing, I'll never understand. Hell, it can't get a website up and running in 3+ years, it can't keep itself from paying out billions to folks that have gamed the system - what makes you believe it can do anything efficiently? Why on earth would you trust them?

Obama really needs to stop referring to his race, or meddle in local race-related situations, in soundbites. I thought he might've learned after the very ill-advised "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon" comment. If Sharpton wants to play the race card, so be it. But the POTUS should be really careful about doing so.

(01-20-2014 06:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Socialism isn't inherently bad, just like Capitalism or Conservatism.

it absolutely is inherently "bad". it is destructive of the individual. it deprives him of his freedoms and inhibits him in the practice of his free will. the best possible outcome of the socialist experiment is that everyone has an equally joyless existence; everyone is the same; miserable.

this relativistic argument that you're trying to make is evidence that the left lost this debate a long time ago, so now they're trying to prevent it from happening altogether. "all ideas are equally ok" prevents the discussion of which idea is the better one.

(01-20-2014 07:23 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Socialism isn't inherently bad, just like Capitalism or Conservatism.

You're right, except it fails wherever it is tried as a replacement for capitalism. Face it, governments are crappy at correctly allocating the means of production and are just as crooked as governments of capitalist countries. However, it's bigger failing is ignoring the human nature of individuals being much more willing to work hard IF they keep the fruits of their labor.

Of course, in theory socialism works - practically - it doesn't.

free market capitalism is what happens when government does nothing to prevent it. to the extent that they "restrain" it, we are less free. once you agree to be less free, then all that is left is for government to decide how much of your freedom you will sacrifice to them; aka the dumba$$ bureaucrats who don't understand what they are regulating in the first place (see: "it turns out that there is no such thing as a shovel ready job", and "it turns out that it is really hard to buy health insurance")

Socialists are typically far more concerned about equal outcome than about the quality of that equal outcome. If it's a societal choice between "100% poor" vs. "33% rich, 33% middle class, 33% poor," they'll pick the former without hesitation even though it's a harder life for 66.7% of the people. No one can be envious of what someone else has, no one has the monetary upper hand, etc. Cuba apologists don't mind about the wall-to-wall squalor and lack of human rights, but since everyone falls into that same egalitarian boat (except for the party apparatchiks and academics who 'deserve' their affluence), it's all good.

(01-21-2014 12:24 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 07:23 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Socialism isn't inherently bad, just like Capitalism or Conservatism.

You're right, except it fails wherever it is tried as a replacement for capitalism. Face it, governments are crappy at correctly allocating the means of production and are just as crooked as governments of capitalist countries. However, it's bigger failing is ignoring the human nature of individuals being much more willing to work hard IF they keep the fruits of their labor.

Of course, in theory socialism works - practically - it doesn't.

Modern democratic socialism is far from a failure though, and that's still left of the most left democrats. The concern over socialism isn't nearly as compelling as people try to make it.

Yes it is far from a failure, it is an absolute, unmitigated, catastrophic failure, which is a far cry from being just a simple failure. You are a blind water carrying clown.

Are there racists the would not approve of him if regardless of how good a job he did? Hell yes. Are there African Americans that would defend him regardless of how schitty a job he did? Hell yes. My guess is that his numbers are down because of the rest of us that simply feel he is over his head and doing a poor job.

Quote:“There’s no doubt that there’s some folks who just really dislike me because they don’t like the idea of a black president,” Obama said in the article by David Remnick, appearing in the magazine’s Jan. 27 edition.

“Now, the flip side of it is there are some black folks and maybe some white folks who really like me and give me the benefit of the doubt precisely because I’m a black president,” Obama said in his most direct comments on how race has affected his political standing since he’s been in office.

Wait, these are the comments that you all went on for 4 pages about? Jesus christ, that's an objectively fair sentiment. Our Black president admitted that him being Black probably undeservedly wins him votes from Whites and Blacks, and you're jumping down his throat as him blaming his bad numbers on racism? That sounds exactly like something Hermann Cain would say at the RNC, and would receive thunderous applause for saying it.

You people are looney and way past the point of ever approaching any sort of objectivity.

(01-23-2014 09:28 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

Quote:“There’s no doubt that there’s some folks who just really dislike me because they don’t like the idea of a black president,” Obama said in the article by David Remnick, appearing in the magazine’s Jan. 27 edition.

“Now, the flip side of it is there are some black folks and maybe some white folks who really like me and give me the benefit of the doubt precisely because I’m a black president,” Obama said in his most direct comments on how race has affected his political standing since he’s been in office.

Wait, these are the comments that you all went on for 4 pages about? Jesus christ, that's an objectively fair sentiment. Our Black president admitted that him being Black probably undeservedly wins him votes from Whites and Blacks, and you're jumping down his throat as him blaming his bad numbers on racism? That sounds exactly like something Hermann Cain would say at the RNC, and would receive thunderous applause for saying it.

You people are looney and way past the point of ever approaching any sort of objectivity.

Why quote something you can't be bothered reading.

“There’s no doubt that there’s some folks who just really dislike me because they don’t like the idea of a black president. Now, the flip side of it is there are some black folks and maybe some white folks who really like me and give me the benefit of the doubt precisely because I’m a black president,”

How is that him blaming racism for his bad poll numbers? He's saying it affects both sides of the race issue, and is tacitly saying it has no net effect by doing so. Do none of you have even the minute amount of objectivity that is required to admit that the president was making a fair statement to a loaded question? Is he so good at his job that you need to perpetuate non-stories like this? I certainly don't think so.

The President should refrain from bringing up his race and guessing about how people "react" to it, regardless of how he's positioning it. It's needlessly polarizing.

(01-24-2014 08:36 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  The President should refrain from bringing up his race and guessing about how people "react" to it, regardless of how he's positioning it. It's needlessly polarizing.

Except I would argue that he wants everything to be polarizing. How else could it be that he has pushed polarizing from the beginning of his presidency right on through - obviously, he believes that polarizing serves his political interests - just not the country's.