How is Tennessee Tech losing to Central Arkansas really any different than the Denver Broncos and/or Dallas Cowboys losing in the 1996 playoffs to Jacksonville and Carolina, respectively?
Don't put words in my mouth on what my criticisms would be. I can only tell you I'd much rather be discussing a theoretical playoff football loss and what ETSU has to do to avoid them in the future than I would read about the program bragging on being No. 72 in anything or "that new yard will be real nice when it's completed!"
Yep. Just like Olympic Stadium.
I do enjoy going against the grain, especially when I think ETSU fans miss so much when analyzing their team. However, I think there is a difference in criticizing the 1989 Bucs men's basketball team, which really could have beaten Oklahoma, and the 1996 football team, which I believe went as far as their talent would take them.
I just feel as if this lack of criticism regarding ETSU's NCAA Tournament play does show a satisfaction with mediocrity. If Tim Smith was criticized for being selfish at the end of the game against Wake Forest, does he make the exact same mistake the next year against Cincinnati? My guess is no.
Don't give me this "oh, we're loyal fans who wish to remain faithful." That extends to Smith, but it doesn't extent to Murry Bartow? What's up with that?
Well, that's PROFESSIONAL football. It's a wee bit different. Comparing Jacksonville/Carolina to Central Arkansas is well.... there's really not an analogy. It's ridiculous.
I get the analogy on the ETSU baseball stadium & Olympic Stadium, but wow - that's weak. Bottom line is ETSU's baseball stadium isn't done. When it's done, it will be a pretty nice venue for D1 baseball. Mullins, at least, got some stuff built. Not trying to say the guy was the best ever, but there had been no building at all, for any sport, since the mini-dome, until he took the chair. I know data & evidence sucks, but that's the case.
(06-07-2012 09:41 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that's PROFESSIONAL football. It's a wee bit different. Comparing Jacksonville/Carolina to Central Arkansas is well.... there's really not an analogy. It's ridiculous.
I get the analogy on the ETSU baseball stadium & Olympic Stadium, but wow - that's weak. Bottom line is ETSU's baseball stadium isn't done. When it's done, it will be a pretty nice venue for D1 baseball. Mullins, at least, got some stuff built. Not trying to say the guy was the best ever, but there had been no building at all, for any sport, since the mini-dome, until he took the chair. I know data & evidence sucks, but that's the case.
Okay guys.
You don't want me to call east Tennesseans rubes and say JC's a bad sports town or I'm the driving force of the board, true or not.
But, as my smart phone insists I make this 2 posts, I have given you almost an entire day now & you have let this blasphemy "Go."
I'll give it another day, but if you don't call the guy out on this one I'm gonna have to, and you know my style.
(06-07-2012 09:41 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that's PROFESSIONAL football. It's a wee bit different. Comparing Jacksonville/Carolina to Central Arkansas is well.... there's really not an analogy. It's ridiculous.
I get the analogy on the ETSU baseball stadium & Olympic Stadium, but wow - that's weak. Bottom line is ETSU's baseball stadium isn't done. When it's done, it will be a pretty nice venue for D1 baseball. Mullins, at least, got some stuff built. Not trying to say the guy was the best ever, but there had been no building at all, for any sport, since the mini-dome, until he took the chair. I know data & evidence sucks, but that's the case.
Really, guys. I got stuff to do. I can't be smashing the wackos for you all the time.
Then again, that is what made ETSU message board posting take off 10 years ago.
You really think what Go is saying is legitimate? Because that's what it appears when you're not commenting on something that is so easily refutable.
So that's it, huh?
He puts matza balls out there that anyone can refute, like the fact the golf facility was built before Mullins got there or that while Cardinal Park was standing prior to the Bucs' move there from Mooney Field in the 1990s, there had to be major refurbishments to the old yard before the move could be made.
You think Olympic Stadium analogy is weak (that yard never lost its losers rep. Don't tell me that can't happen here, because it already has), yet you think the idea that Tennessee Tech lost to a team in its second season is RELEVANT?
Mullins got stuff built? Really? You mean like the ballpark?
I really don't have the time to respond to such foolish claims.
However, I do want to say that I think the fact we're just letting the "ETSU propaganda boys" go now shows a rather disturbing switch in the public mindset of ETSU fans, if this board (or thread) can be looked upon as a barometer of such things.
Maybe it's the fact this moderator treats me like a leper instead of a friend and a former co-worker.
But I've said it before- it's people like this who have driven off the good posters on this board, the Kevsters, the Goldfingers, the BucDoctors, the LPs, etc.
But maybe it's just a sign of the times. It seems even the most optimistic Bucs fan doesn't wish for a day when ETSU can be the next mid-major program to advance up the ranks a la UNLV or South Florida. No, they wish for the day where they can just be what they were in the SoCon.
Point is, as every day seems to be a day closer to when the major conferences break off from the NCAA and college sports becomes even more of a grouping of haves and have nots, it means the mid-majors who would stick with the NCAA would become less and less relevant.
And ETSU will be one of the have nots.
It's just inevitable.
The thing is, it didn't have to be that way. But one of the things that the posters such as myself who demanded more out of the program rather than just believe any of the "winning the right way" propaganda that came out of the Minidome always thought was that the program could have been, nay, SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE than what they were.
And for this, we were attacked. We were attacked, and all of them but myself left, for believing that the team, and the community, could be even better than what it was.
Eventually we saw that our hopes for this program and this area would always be unfulfilled what for the nonsensical likes of "Mullins got stadiums built" and "I cry on senior day" and "don't you love the scenery here?"
Sad. But very telling.
(06-10-2012 03:53 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote: [ -> ]So that's it, huh?
He puts matza balls out there that anyone can refute, like the fact the golf facility was built before Mullins got there or that while Cardinal Park was standing prior to the Bucs' move there from Mooney Field in the 1990s, there had to be major refurbishments to the old yard before the move could be made.
You think Olympic Stadium analogy is weak (that yard never lost its losers rep. Don't tell me that can't happen here, because it already has), yet you think the idea that Tennessee Tech lost to a team in its second season is RELEVANT?
Mullins got stuff built? Really? You mean like the ballpark?
I really don't have the time to respond to such foolish claims.
However, I do want to say that I think the fact we're just letting the "ETSU propaganda boys" go now shows a rather disturbing switch in the public mindset of ETSU fans, if this board (or thread) can be looked upon as a barometer of such things.
Maybe it's the fact this moderator treats me like a leper instead of a friend and a former co-worker.
But I've said it before- it's people like this who have driven off the good posters on this board, the Kevsters, the Goldfingers, the BucDoctors, the LPs, etc.
But maybe it's just a sign of the times. It seems even the most optimistic Bucs fan doesn't wish for a day when ETSU can be the next mid-major program to advance up the ranks a la UNLV or South Florida. No, they wish for the day where they can just be what they were in the SoCon.
Point is, as every day seems to be a day closer to when the major conferences break off from the NCAA and college sports becomes even more of a grouping of haves and have nots, it means the mid-majors who would stick with the NCAA would become less and less relevant.
And ETSU will be one of the have nots.
It's just inevitable.
The thing is, it didn't have to be that way. But one of the things that the posters such as myself who demanded more out of the program rather than just believe any of the "winning the right way" propaganda that came out of the Minidome always thought was that the program could have been, nay, SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE than what they were.
And for this, we were attacked. We were attacked, and all of them but myself left, for believing that the team, and the community, could be even better than what it was.
Eventually we saw that our hopes for this program and this area would always be unfulfilled what for the nonsensical likes of "Mullins got stadiums built" and "I cry on senior day" and "don't you love the scenery here?"
Sad. But very telling.
You talk about inside stuff that a guy like me on the outside can't fully appreciate. There must have been rather intense confrontation and strife going on in that athletic department leading up to the 2003 decision, stuff that can never be fully disclosed in public. I'm one of the old guys from the old days a few presidents removed from Paul Stanton, and admit -- got stuck in time, didn't keep up with what was going on. But, the full impact of those awful athletic decisions are now in full view for anyone who cares to look. Go and his folks can apologize and rationalize all day, but it doesn't cover over the stench. Stanton didn't have to diminish athletics in order to enhance academics. He made a strategic mega blunder. I would put this athletic department up against any of the worst mid-major athletic departments in the country, and it would have an excellent chance of winning that dishonor. It's been stated on here time and time again that Noland must be given the necessary time, given a chance ---- be patient. Of course it will take considerable time to turn this thing that took nine or more years to create. To me, it's an entrenched monster that will probably not go down without a fight. As far as I am concerned, ETSU athletics is already a major have not. This athletic department has NO WEAPONS to fight with in the conference reshuffling war that's been going on for the past two years. Have too many people already thrown in the towel and conceded to Dave Mullins and his cronies? Is it too late? Or, can this thing be turned around and finally headed in the right direction? The clock is running and there are no time outs.
All I know is if the Tigers win tonight, the REAL Pittsburgh Bucs, who Go came on here talking so much sh1t on, will be in first place.
I understand about Noland and giving him time. I think it would be naive to believe that the first thing he was going to do was say "Football- this fall! Getrdone!"
But the longer it stays the same, the longer complacency sets in.
That's why I don't understand the Simon/Stanton thing. Here's the chance for the Stanton tenure to be "Okay, pharmacy school, but at what cost?"
If you want football to come back, if you want athletics to reverse course, then the weaker Stanton is, the better.
Let me put it to you this way. The Faculty Senate, five years ago, supported football's absense by a 4-1 ratio. But if it comes out that the Stanton tenure was one where making a simple tweet meant reprisal of sabatoging one's career THAT'S A HUGE POLITICAL DOMINO THAT WOULD FALL!
Suddenly, the people who would say "Dr. Stanton is awesome!" in public meetings discussing a new college president would have to rethink that position. And if they rethink that position, then it stands to reason they'll rethink dropping football, too.
(06-10-2012 06:22 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2012 03:53 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote: [ -> ]So that's it, huh?
He puts matza balls out there that anyone can refute, like the fact the golf facility was built before Mullins got there or that while Cardinal Park was standing prior to the Bucs' move there from Mooney Field in the 1990s, there had to be major refurbishments to the old yard before the move could be made.
You think Olympic Stadium analogy is weak (that yard never lost its losers rep. Don't tell me that can't happen here, because it already has), yet you think the idea that Tennessee Tech lost to a team in its second season is RELEVANT?
Mullins got stuff built? Really? You mean like the ballpark?
I really don't have the time to respond to such foolish claims.
However, I do want to say that I think the fact we're just letting the "ETSU propaganda boys" go now shows a rather disturbing switch in the public mindset of ETSU fans, if this board (or thread) can be looked upon as a barometer of such things.
Maybe it's the fact this moderator treats me like a leper instead of a friend and a former co-worker.
But I've said it before- it's people like this who have driven off the good posters on this board, the Kevsters, the Goldfingers, the BucDoctors, the LPs, etc.
But maybe it's just a sign of the times. It seems even the most optimistic Bucs fan doesn't wish for a day when ETSU can be the next mid-major program to advance up the ranks a la UNLV or South Florida. No, they wish for the day where they can just be what they were in the SoCon.
Point is, as every day seems to be a day closer to when the major conferences break off from the NCAA and college sports becomes even more of a grouping of haves and have nots, it means the mid-majors who would stick with the NCAA would become less and less relevant.
And ETSU will be one of the have nots.
It's just inevitable.
The thing is, it didn't have to be that way. But one of the things that the posters such as myself who demanded more out of the program rather than just believe any of the "winning the right way" propaganda that came out of the Minidome always thought was that the program could have been, nay, SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE than what they were.
And for this, we were attacked. We were attacked, and all of them but myself left, for believing that the team, and the community, could be even better than what it was.
Eventually we saw that our hopes for this program and this area would always be unfulfilled what for the nonsensical likes of "Mullins got stadiums built" and "I cry on senior day" and "don't you love the scenery here?"
Sad. But very telling.
You talk about inside stuff that a guy like me on the outside can't fully appreciate. There must have been rather intense confrontation and strife going on in that athletic department leading up to the 2003 decision, stuff that can never be fully disclosed in public. I'm one of the old guys from the old days a few presidents removed from Paul Stanton, and admit -- got stuck in time, didn't keep up with what was going on. But, the full impact of those awful athletic decisions are now in full view for anyone who cares to look. Go and his folks can apologize and rationalize all day, but it doesn't cover over the stench. Stanton didn't have to diminish athletics in order to enhance academics. He made a strategic mega blunder. I would put this athletic department up against any of the worst mid-major athletic departments in the country, and it would have an excellent chance of winning that dishonor. It's been stated on here time and time again that Noland must be given the necessary time, given a chance ---- be patient. Of course it will take considerable time to turn this thing that took nine or more years to create. To me, it's an entrenched monster that will probably not go down without a fight. As far as I am concerned, ETSU athletics is already a major have not. This athletic department has NO WEAPONS to fight with in the conference reshuffling war that's been going on for the past two years. Have too many people already thrown in the towel and conceded to Dave Mullins and his cronies? Is it too late? Or, can this thing be turned around and finally headed in the right direction? The clock is running and there are no time outs.
I think the situation can be turned around with the President that we now have. Stanton put us in a terrible place by making "either/or" arguments that have done nothing but stifled the University and made athletics a laughing stock of the state. I believe that Dr. Noland gets it that growth and progress of our University go hand in hand with a football program and re-invigorated athletics. I do think the era of ETSU having poetry slams and book fairs for Homecoming is thankfully coming to an end!
That's fine, but I assure you that if I'm trying to change the culture at ETSU and I'm Brian Noland, then the less Paul Stanton's tenure is put on a pedestal, the better.
And if it comes out that first amendment rights were violated by Stanton, that's a pretty big matzo ball hanging out there.
Same ol' sh1t different day, isn't it? Can't you come with better stuff than this?
First of all, you can't talk any crap about the Pirates to me. I'm a St. Louis Cardinal fan. I mean, really? And hell, it's June.
ETSU Propoganda boys? Three stadiums were built under Mullins' tenure. Is that an apology? An excuse? I don't believe so. It's a fact. But I've heard every excuse in the book for ETSU football. Golf facility? I never mentioned that specifically.
I love the word 'apologists' coming from people that provide every apology and excuse for a previously failed program.
Your reasoning relative to Lenore Simon, whom you don't even know, is just 'support Simon regardless of the argument because it's anti-Stanton.' Again, you are asking people to follow someone out of their mind. Then again, look who's talking. Tying together the Simon fiasco with football is distant at best.
And then you start crying about how the moderator mistreats you. You poor baby. How do you get through the day?
I'm also of the opinion ETSU can be better than it is right now. I've said that since day 1. You read into it what you want.
The St. Louis Cardinals fan? Really? And you have the audacity to speak ill of the part of the country Stan Musial came from?
Sad.
Actually, two stadiums have been built under Mullins. One of them isn't "built" yet.
The first one was necessitated because of football being dropped. And completed three years behind schedule.
The other one wasn't necessary and the money spent for it could have been better spent anywhere, especially since the softball team has regressed since it has been built.
However, you said that nothing had been built since the Minidome and Mullins. That's not true, considering the golf facility was built between then and Cardinal Park was refurbished so ETSU could move there in the '90s, though that was not solely an ETSU effort.
Giving Mullins credit for getting these facilities built is also laughable. There have been delays every step of the way and, furthermore, they were not built in order of importance.
ETSU, and the community, needs a new arena, convocation center, whatever you want to call it. They don't need a new softball yard.
Failed program? Just because Mullins and Stanton cut it doesn't mean it failed. It was the link ETSU needed to stay in the SoCon.
If ETSU is still in the SoCon and has a new arena underway, we can talk about ETSU moving to a C-USA or a CAA.
Right now we're discussing the merits of the Big South.
Fact is Pittsburgh is the 3rd most polluted city in the country, not even Stan the Man can deny that. I'm sure he's not proud of that fact.
Mullins was AD when these facilities were built - that's also a fact. I actually wasn't counting the golf facility because simply it's a practice facility and not where matches are played. I also woudn't count refurbishing Cardinal Park - it's not building a new stadium.
But I'm very done with this topic. Good God, it's a dead horse.
Pittsburgh is not the third most polluted city. Sorry. I know where you're getting that, and that's a measure done by Clairton, where they have a coke works. Sorry.
Go to Pittsburgh today and you'll see a very clean city that everybody but you knows has completely shed it's "Smoky City" image of bygone steel mill days. There are no working steel mills in the City of Pittsburgh anymore.
Frankly, I know east Tennessee is more polluted than Pittsburgh. I've been there, Go. I have never, ever smelled anything more distasteful than the Eastman Plant in Kingsport. At its peak, it smelled like a drunk man's vomit.
Furthermore, whatever criteria you are gauging that "pollution" by certainly does not include natural pollutants that cause one to sneeze, wheeze, and whatever else. I always cringe when I hear east Tennesseans say that "we have these plants that grow here and don't grow anywhere else!"
Yep. And that's why you have more allergens than anywhere else in the country. Not the third most. THE most!
Mullins may have been the AD when the facilities were built, but frankly they don't add anything to the athletic department. Building three facilities for ancillary sports way behind schedule while the basketball arena crumbles and the local concert arena does too. That's incompetence of the highest order.
I'm glad you're done with this topic. As always, you lost.
You guys really have no clue.
Again, they do the reading right by the mill. You really have no clue. There are three mills, the one in Clairton, the one in Dravosburg, and the one in Braddock. They ain't putting out that much stuff.
Hell, I remember when WTAE would include an air report with the weather, and Joe Denardo would always tell you "the air is moderate" today.
They don't do that anymore.
That also includes New Castle, which does still have mills.
But, again, I've been by them. None of them even come close to Kingsport. NONE!
I remember going on a date with a girl in Kingsport and having to cut it off short because I couldn't stand sitting in the car in that town with the smell.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, THERE WAS THE ALLERGENS!!!!
Best thing I think they could do in East Tennessee would be to start putting up mills, though. Kill off all those plants that put out the allergens.
People in the area would like it because they wouldn't have to hack and wheeze all the time, and the mills would like it because they could get people to work for $7.25 an hour.
But frankly, ask any sports fan if they would rather live in
A- A city where the locals are reduced to making excuses for an incompetent athletic director
B- A city where the baseball team is in FIRST PLACE IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE CENTRAL
And see what they have to say!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8lEhb9Ho...re=related