CSNbbs

(07-16-2012 01:08 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]Terrible coaching job in 04-05??? A key injury to Brad Nuckles hurt us big time that year, and Aaron Scott went AWOL, amongst other things. I'm not sure that was all Murry's fault. However, you have to blame someone, it just can't be due to multiple factors; might as well be him.

Downgraded? Take a look at the RPI of the ASun the past 2-3 years. Even before that, the difference was small. This argument has always blown me away; the ability to ignore data, statistics, and facts, and just say 'it sucks.' The SoCon really isn't that great. If we really wanted to move somewhere, go to the CAA or the Sun Belt. However, that would require much more funds which typically comes from much better support, which around here is sketchy. Again, it's just easier to whine about it.

Shell of its former self? Not really. You lose Davidson who is definitely a traditional power, but Charleston hasn't been back to the NCAAs since 1999. I'm not sure it would be a 'shell' but it certainly can give you something else to ***** about. That way, if the Bucs stay in the ASun, you can complain. If they jump to the SoCon, you can complain.

The GoBucsGo Rules to Posting on the ETSU Forum

1. Use the $$$ excuse until it becomes a bad cliché
2. Repeatedly cite A-Sun RPI until a simplistic formula overrides common sense *
3. Blame fans for lack of support when, in fact, it is the institution who is to blame
4. Accuse posters of whining/complaining and question their intelligence when position becomes untenable
5. When all else fails bring up student vote
   

* User may replace RPI with Conference Trophy as necessary

Apply rules liberally and often until they become as predictable as the moon. Do not be afraid to use multiple rules in a single post (example above).

The students didnt vote down football, they voted down a fee that was put in place after the vote only the students had no choice in the fee.
And like it or not, the sports that matter are football, spring football and basketball. The socob could care less about our great soccer.

(07-16-2012 04:08 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2012 10:36 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's probably best to move to the SoCon, but the Big South I'm not so sure about. Their RPI has consistently been below the ASun in men's basketball, and I'm not certain how strong they are in the other sports. Regardless travel-wise, both are certainly much better than the ASun.

How are we a middle of the pack ASun team when we win the All Sports Trophy every year?

Go, you are one who is really impressed with this trophy. Exactly how has it helped ETSU athletics? ETSU spends more a year on athletics than Ga Southern, for example. We win the trophies, they play and win football games. They have thousands and thousands of more fans on their campus each year than ETSU, but we have the trophies. Please explain again why ETSU spends its athletic budget to win these trophies while doing little or nothing to field teams that bring more fans onto campus? For the money spent on athletics, who has it right, Ga Southern or
ETSU? Please don't go to your usual argument of the sorry football teams and the
lack of support. With a program, there was always hope and an opportunity to fix
it. We know now that it could have been fixed with all the additional money that
has been spent on minor sports since it was killed. But, without a program, that
opportunity does not exist because it was thrown away in 2003. Again, for the same costs, how many informed ETSU fans and students would pick the ETSU athletic model over the Ga Southern athletic model? Put that to a vote.

My god, please let go of the "we spend $12 million dollars on what blah, blah, blah" argument.

Here's a study for you that conveniently enough looked at athletics spending from 2003 compared to 2010. The national average was an increase of 70%. Let it go dude.

http://winthropintelligence.com/2012/07/...-expenses/

Conference RPI's:
The A-Sun will drop in the short term without Belmont. I'll expect someone to go on a long win streak and garner some attention for the conference; and, that will help bring the RPI back up. FGCU, Mercer, USC-Upstate, or Lipscomb are most likely to do that; but, I wouldn't count out Stetson or NKU either. After all of the arrests and robberies last season, the Bucs "have some 'splainin' to do" (in a figurative sense). The OVC will be looking strong by having both Belmont and Murray State. The SoCon ain't all that (basketball)...and it will be significantly worse after C-of-C and Davidson leave.

Student Vote:
That was the stupidest thing I've ever witnessed in the entire world history of higher education. When fees/expenses are to be charged to the customer (students), it is done so at the discretion of the seller (university). When was the last time McDonald's had its customers vote on the price of a Big Mac? Stupid! It was clearly a totally fake, orchestrated "see, I'm right" moment set-up by President Med School Guy. Again: Stupid!

ETSU Football:
If we want it, let's hope they put some bucks into the Buc's Dome. Football would be much more attainable it ETSU only needed to spend $10-20 million in upgrades to an existing facility as opposed to $80-100 million on a brand new stadium. If the Dome is torn down to build a Performing Arts Center, then football is gone forever. Maybe it might make sense, too, to get into ANY football conference (SWAC, MEAC, SoCon, OVC, Big South . . . anyone that will have us b/c in this scenario it wouldn't matter) A.S.A.P. as a "basketball school" . . . then add football?

Switching Conferences:
Several of us have hit that answer . . . winning . . . not winning like Charlie Sheen, rather, winning like Belmont. College presidents are just like everyone else, they like being associated with winners. If ETSU wins in the sports that garner the most attention (M/W basketball, baseball), then there will be invites to Noland from presidents in other conferences. ETSU MUST improve its standings in the media sports.

Compare last season's standings:
Men's basketball: Belmont #1, ETSU #4
Women's basketball: Belmont #3, ETSU #8
Baseball: Belmont #1, ETSU #9
All adds up to . . .
Belmont gets the OVC, ETSU gets the A-Sun All-Sports trophy

Summer Sports Lull:
It's bad right now. Counting-down the weeks to Buc home openers:
Men's Soccer: vs. Milligan, Tue. Aug. 14
Women's Soccer: vs. Appalachian State (the team we love to hate), Sun. Aug. 12
Volleyball: vs. Marshall (Thundering Turd), Tue. Sep 4
GO BUCS!!!

What's up with Cross-Country?
The schedule shows Buc CC running in Boone, NC for 3 different meets. Does anyone know if these are all on the same course? If so, how boring it will be for our runner's to have their short season consumed by such repetition! For CC to have 3 out of 5 season meets at the same location in Boone, NC would be kind of like Buc basketball playing 17 of its games at USC Upstate. Boring. The plus side, I guess, is there won't be much traveling cost.

(07-16-2012 10:27 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2012 04:08 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2012 10:36 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's probably best to move to the SoCon, but the Big South I'm not so sure about. Their RPI has consistently been below the ASun in men's basketball, and I'm not certain how strong they are in the other sports. Regardless travel-wise, both are certainly much better than the ASun.

How are we a middle of the pack ASun team when we win the All Sports Trophy every year?

Go, you are one who is really impressed with this trophy. Exactly how has it helped ETSU athletics? ETSU spends more a year on athletics than Ga Southern, for example. We win the trophies, they play and win football games. They have thousands and thousands of more fans on their campus each year than ETSU, but we have the trophies. Please explain again why ETSU spends its athletic budget to win these trophies while doing little or nothing to field teams that bring more fans onto campus? For the money spent on athletics, who has it right, Ga Southern or
ETSU? Please don't go to your usual argument of the sorry football teams and the
lack of support. With a program, there was always hope and an opportunity to fix
it. We know now that it could have been fixed with all the additional money that
has been spent on minor sports since it was killed. But, without a program, that
opportunity does not exist because it was thrown away in 2003. Again, for the same costs, how many informed ETSU fans and students would pick the ETSU athletic model over the Ga Southern athletic model? Put that to a vote.

My god, please let go of the "we spend $12 million dollars on what blah, blah, blah" argument.

Here's a study for you that conveniently enough looked at athletics spending from 2003 compared to 2010. The national average was an increase of 70%. Let it go dude.

http://winthropintelligence.com/2012/07/...-expenses/

You NEVER answer the questions. You use the usual diversion strategy. Answer these three questions:
1. What has ETSU gained by winning this trophy?
2. For essentially the same money, would you rather have a Ga Southern type athletic program or this Stanton-Mullins athletic program?
3. Would the students have voted down football in the first place if they had been told the truth and known that their fees were going up regardless and their vote was one to keep football and make it more competitive OR two to drop football and make the minor sports more competitive?

Wow, that's some kind of propaganda machine. Actually, here's what happened: When they announced there would be a student vote, there was never a BFFF member on campus. NEVER. I'm on campus most of the day, every day, and there's not a gate to keep people out. Nope, the good ol' BFFF and football supporters couldn't be found. Hell, I didn't even see one of the "Bring Back Football" signs until two weeks before the vote, and there wasn't many. This is a state institution, there was nothing to keep them out, but somehow, they couldn't get their asses here. So, the foundation had an opportunity. It failed in its opportunity.

However, they did do a great job in making football central in the Presidential hiring. Every candidate heard it over & over again. The JC Press certainly wants it back. WJHL wants it back. So, they made sure they also asked the candidates about football. They sent emails to administrators when the Parking Garage was approved to ***** about the fact that this money was 'misused' (of course, these monies are earmarked, but this group doesn't understand what the term means). They have talked to the state reps and have done a good job there in making sure the reps & senators mention it to the Prez when they talk to him. It's just really disappointing from my end the pro-football group doesn't go to the people that en masse, could bring it back: The students. Without a doubt, student fees will have to be increased to bring it back, and the students will pay for it. Of course student fees have increased, but not at the level they would have to be increased to support the money vacuum I-AA football is. The state sure as hell isn't giving us any more money. Where else would the monies come from? How about the 15K+ people who pay to come here?

And by the way, Ga Southern hasn't been to the NCAAs in men's basketball since 1992. So in football - very successful. In basketball - not so much. As far as I can tell, they suck in most other sports. With ETSU when we had football, one conference title in 1969, one playoff appearance in 1996. Men's basketball - 4 NCAA appearances in the last 8 years. Basketball gets on national TV. Football gets on regional TV. I'm thinking basketball is the better investment, and football should be used to help get ETSU into a conference that's more travel friendly.

(07-17-2012 08:37 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, that's some kind of propaganda machine. Actually, here's what happened: When they announced there would be a student vote, there was never a BFFF member on campus. NEVER. I'm on campus most of the day, every day, and there's not a gate to keep people out. Nope, the good ol' BFFF and football supporters couldn't be found. Hell, I didn't even see one of the "Bring Back Football" signs until two weeks before the vote, and there wasn't many. This is a state institution, there was nothing to keep them out, but somehow, they couldn't get their asses here. So, the foundation had an opportunity. It failed in its opportunity.

However, they did do a great job in making football central in the Presidential hiring. Every candidate heard it over & over again. The JC Press certainly wants it back. WJHL wants it back. So, they made sure they also asked the candidates about football. They sent emails to administrators when the Parking Garage was approved to ***** about the fact that this money was 'misused' (of course, these monies are earmarked, but this group doesn't understand what the term means). They have talked to the state reps and have done a good job there in making sure the reps & senators mention it to the Prez when they talk to him. It's just really disappointing from my end the pro-football group doesn't go to the people that en masse, could bring it back: The students. Without a doubt, student fees will have to be increased to bring it back, and the students will pay for it. Of course student fees have increased, but not at the level they would have to be increased to support the money vacuum I-AA football is. The state sure as hell isn't giving us any more money. Where else would the monies come from? How about the 15K+ people who pay to come here?

Wrong time. I'm talking about 2003 when all this started, when all the lying started, when all the deception was initiated, when all the BS was spread. There was no vote. Had the students been told the TRUTH then, that athletic fees would be increased going forward regardless of the athletic model in place, would they have voted to keep football and see it made more competitive with the fee increases, or would thy have voted to eliminate football and use that money along with fee increases to make the minor sports more competitive?

Like I said, all the money had already been shifted to the minor sports and who knows what else by the time the students actually voted. By then it was presented as some kind of unethical and horrible idea to cut the minors back to their 2003 levels -- thus, the entire cost of the football restart was on the students. The dishonesty of this vote has been pointed out many, many times here ---- since the students have not been afforded the vote on any other athletic fee increases or the most recent student funded tennis complex.

Again, given that both schools are spending about the same, which school is spending its athletic money most wisely, ETSU or Georgia Southern?

I think I answered your question: ETSU. Why? Basketball is a better sport to to get behind because of its potential revenue. If you look at it in terms of decades, we went to the NCAAs 4 times in the last 10 years. The only previous time that occurred in ETSU's history was between 1987 and 1997. And the conference? Better in RPI for the last three years than the SoCon and essentially equivalent before that, so don't give me the tired old argument the 'ASun sucks.' Not any worse than the SoCon, but in my opinion, they both actually suck.

Further, ETSU has won in other sports, including women's basketball & men's soccer (made the NCAAs in the what, the 2nd year in existence), new facilities were built for the first time since the dome was built, and success continued in those 'country club sports,' you know, the sports that EVERY OTHER athletic department has.

Ga Southern won in football, but no titles since 2000.

I'll take this guy.

STATESBORO—Georgia Southern University is not moving up to the Football Bowl Subdivision or leaving the Southern Conference to join another conference anytime soon.

GSU athletics director Sam Baker said the university has had discussions with only one conference - the Sun Belt Conference. Sun Belt officials said they are content with 12 members (10 of which play football) after recently adding Georgia State, Texas State and Texas-Arlington.

"We’ve had no conversations (with other FBS conferences)," Baker said. "We reached out just to see what the temperature was in the Sun Belt."

The Sun Belt Conference is losing Denver this summer to the Western Athletic Conference. Next summer, North Texas and Florida International will leave for Conference USA.

Baker said he got in touch with Sun Belt Commissioner Karl Benson to see what insights he may have on the future of the Sun Belt. Baker said the conference was comfortable at 12 schools and with 10 playing football.

"They just said that right now they’re at the number (of schools) that they’re interested in," Baker explained, "and certainly they would keep us in mind as they would a lot of different institutions."

Conference options

From a geographical and financial standpoint, Baker noted, Sun Belt membership might work for Georgia Southern.

"I think it still remains that people want to have a competitive program," he said. "And it still comes down to how you’re going to finance it. If you increase your football scholarships to 85 (up from 63 in the Football Championship Subdivision), we’re going to have to increase our women’s scholarships in a proportionate number because of Title IX. It’s going to be a major economic move. It’s just not football — it’s an entire athletic program."

The Sun Belt Conference appeared to be GSU’s best option at the FBS level, much better than the Western Athletic Conference. Membership in the WAC is seen as a huge financial undertaking because of the travel involved.

Baker said GSU will not join the WAC, even if an invitation is extended, because it is not economically viable for the Eagles.

"The WAC has got some issues," Baker said. "Right now they’ve only got two football programs and I believe five schools overall in the conference after this year. … They’ve been at the brink of being dissolved a few years ago and they came back from the abyss, but I don’t know this time if they can make that."

And GSU can forget about joining Conference USA, at least at this time.

"If you look at the schools that went into Conference USA, they came out of large media markets," Baker said. "I think everybody in the country is where they’re going to be at this moment. I don’t think there’s any conversations going on anywhere about new conferences."

The Colonial Athletic Association, an FCS conference, has extended invitations to SoCon members Davidson and College of Charleston. Baker said Georgia Southern has no interest in joining the CAA.

"We’re in the Southern Conference," he said. "If we’re FCS, this is the conference we’re going to be in."

The CAA lost Georgia State to the Sun Belt Conference, Virginia Commonwealth to the Atlantic 10 Conference and Old Dominion to Conference USA.

"There’s been an invitation from the Colonial to Davidson and Charleston," Baker said. "We’ve not heard, as conference members, where that may lead. It would be hard to tell. I think they both benefit by being in our conference."

Funding must increase

GSU President Brooks Keel in April said the Eagles plan to leave the FCS and the SoCon at some point. Dr. Keel said he believes the national media exposure GSU would attract by playing football in the FBS, especially games televised by ESPN, would help GSU "move from a regional university to a national university."

Last July, GSU’s Athletic Foundation began a "Soaring to Victory" campaign, an eight-year, five-phase, $36.6 million initiative designed to ensure future athletics success.

Keel said $10 million in signed pledges must be secured before the construction of a 57,000-square-foot Football Operations Center in the east end zone of Paulson Stadium can begin. It is the marquee project of Phase I in the five phases of the "Soaring to Victory" campaign.

The five phases are Phase I: "Stabilizing the Program" ($15.5 million); Phase II: "Enhancing the Student-Athlete Experience" ($2.85 million); Phase III: "Upgrading Athletic Facilities" ($7.5 million); Phase IV: "Improving the Fan Experience" ($10.5 million) and Phase V: "Expanding the Technology Infrastructure ($275,000).

In April, GSU Athletic Foundation President John Mulherin said $5.1 million in cash and signed pledges had been generated.

The amount has increased to $5.9 million, Mulherin said Thursday.

"We’ve always said we’re going to do what we have to do to have football at a meaningful level here at Georgia Southern," Baker said. "And we will do everything we need to do to try to do that. But it’s going to mean, if you read the feasibility study, a major influx of money to make it all work. We work very hard right now to live within the budget to make it all work with the budget that we currently have, which is a little over $11 million."

(07-17-2012 11:01 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]I think I answered your question: ETSU. Why? Basketball is a better sport to to get behind because of its potential revenue. If you look at it in terms of decades, we went to the NCAAs 4 times in the last 10 years. The only previous time that occurred in ETSU's history was between 1987 and 1997. And the conference? Better in RPI for the last three years than the SoCon and essentially equivalent before that, so don't give me the tired old argument the 'ASun sucks.' Not any worse than the SoCon, but in my opinion, they both actually suck.

Further, ETSU has won in other sports, including women's basketball & men's soccer (made the NCAAs in the what, the 2nd year in existence), new facilities were built for the first time since the dome was built, and success continued in those 'country club sports,' you know, the sports that EVERY OTHER athletic department has.

Ga Southern won in football, but no titles since 2000.

So, for essentially the same athletic costs, you choose the Stanton-Mullins athletic model over the Ga Southern athletic model. VERY REVEALING. With this, you have now fully disclosed your position. By removing your veil, we now know for sure who you speak for, who you represent on this board.

Oh yes, you have revealed the DRAGON IN HIS LAIR. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm not sure what the "Stanton-Mullins" athletic model really is. What I do support is success in all sports. What I do support is winning. What I do support is success in sports that get our name out there. What's the best sport for doing that at our level? Men's basketball. It gets on national TV just for qualifying for the NCAAs. I-AA football, if you can qualify for their playoff, will get you a spot on regional TV. You may get a regular season game on regional TV if you're lucky. If you can somehow get yourself to the semis of the playoffs, you can get on ESPN2, and the final might get on ESPN. But that's pretty tough to do. Look @ ETSU's 80 years of football.

What I represent? Logical thought.

ETSU simply needs a new athletic model fitting for a growing regional state university. There are funds for FCS football in the current budget and there needs to be better marketing and fund raising in the future. I think Dr. Noland is aware of this and will make appropriate changes. The Stanton-Mullins model of allowing liberal arts/music teachers to determine athletic spending at our school has been a disaster and is something we need to change. Spending the majority of the money on invisible minor sports simply has not worked.

When have liberal arts/music teachers made any judgment on athletic spending? Man, you guys are so far in left field, I'm not sure why I'm having this conversation. In fact, I think I'll end it.

RETREAT!!!

Any money game that an FCS program plays against a BCS conference team will be nationally televised somewhere. That's how the TV deals are set up. I literally watched Tennessee play UAB one year in Minnesota the day of my grandfather in law's funeral.
Football at all levels of Division I drives the bus. Minor sports while important, are more of a D-II/III NAIA model of athletics when given priority over the sports that can actually draw interest and more than 300 fans consistently without strongarming the Greeks to come.

(07-17-2012 04:44 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote: [ -> ]Any money game that an FCS program plays against a BCS conference team will be nationally televised somewhere. That's how the TV deals are set up. I literally watched Tennessee play UAB one year in Minnesota the day of my grandfather in law's funeral.
Football at all levels of Division I drives the bus. Minor sports while important, are more of a D-II/III NAIA model of athletics when given priority over the sports that can actually draw interest and more than 300 fans consistently without strongarming the Greeks to come.

Fans. Fans on campus. Alumni on campus. Alumni support. Excitement. Fun. Revenue. Students at athletic events. TV exposure. Athletics as the front porch of the university. Are these the reasons to field an athletic program or are are there other reasons?

What are the reasons for the current ETSU athletic program?

All of those reasons you just mentioned '66. The thing is about this 'argument' is it's not really an argument. You just need somebody to hate, and I'll be that guy. Hell, I actually enjoy it. We're not really that far off each other, it's just your logic behind your argument is flawed. Men's basketball should drive the bus at this level, and not football.

Hey Lover, UAB is a D-1 program. Sorry, it's true. D1 vs D1-AA games may be televised in the D1 program's market which if we can get our local channels to strike a deal, we can get too. But nationally televised? Not typically. I'm sure you can find one, but not typically. And don't tell me the Big 10 network is nationally televised - yes, they will televise it, and I can get it on DirectTV, but it's not the same and you know it. I'm talking about ABC, CBS, ESPN networks. For example, a couple of years ago Oklahoma played UT Chattanooga, and I could get it - on PPV, which I did and forked over my 25 bucks. It was even PPV in Norman I think.

(07-17-2012 07:05 AM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2012 10:27 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2012 04:08 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2012 10:36 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's probably best to move to the SoCon, but the Big South I'm not so sure about. Their RPI has consistently been below the ASun in men's basketball, and I'm not certain how strong they are in the other sports. Regardless travel-wise, both are certainly much better than the ASun.

How are we a middle of the pack ASun team when we win the All Sports Trophy every year?

Go, you are one who is really impressed with this trophy. Exactly how has it helped ETSU athletics? ETSU spends more a year on athletics than Ga Southern, for example. We win the trophies, they play and win football games. They have thousands and thousands of more fans on their campus each year than ETSU, but we have the trophies. Please explain again why ETSU spends its athletic budget to win these trophies while doing little or nothing to field teams that bring more fans onto campus? For the money spent on athletics, who has it right, Ga Southern or
ETSU? Please don't go to your usual argument of the sorry football teams and the
lack of support. With a program, there was always hope and an opportunity to fix
it. We know now that it could have been fixed with all the additional money that
has been spent on minor sports since it was killed. But, without a program, that
opportunity does not exist because it was thrown away in 2003. Again, for the same costs, how many informed ETSU fans and students would pick the ETSU athletic model over the Ga Southern athletic model? Put that to a vote.

My god, please let go of the "we spend $12 million dollars on what blah, blah, blah" argument.

Here's a study for you that conveniently enough looked at athletics spending from 2003 compared to 2010. The national average was an increase of 70%. Let it go dude.

http://winthropintelligence.com/2012/07/...-expenses/

You NEVER answer the questions. You use the usual diversion strategy. Answer these three questions:
1. What has ETSU gained by winning this trophy?
2. For essentially the same money, would you rather have a Ga Southern type athletic program or this Stanton-Mullins athletic program?
3. Would the students have voted down football in the first place if they had been told the truth and known that their fees were going up regardless and their vote was one to keep football and make it more competitive OR two to drop football and make the minor sports more competitive?

I wasn't trying to answer your questions, I was trying to point out that athletics spending has increased nationally and the increased spending of ETSU athletics is not about some crazy backdoor conspiracy to sacrifice football on the altar of minor sports - the increased spending is simply the cost of doing business in DI. I think that's perfectly clear.

To humor you though -

1. ETSU has established itself as having the most overall success of any athletic department in the ASun. That's what all sports trophies do. By the way, every school that wins an all sports trophy brags about it. Florida is known for football, but prominently promotes their streak of dominating the all sports race in the SEC. It's a measure of your overall strength as a program. It helps ETSU's athletic profile. Every bit as much as football did(n't).

2. ETSU. Ga Southern has a good football program and nothing else. They have had serious academic issues and their basketball program is a total disaster. They are not a school people care about. Even with a winning football team. Also I think you're creating a false dichotomy. It's not an either/or situation with ETSU/Ga Southern. You've picked one outlier as an example - basically a school with a similar sized budget to ETSU, that has had football success. Ga Southern is basically the only school that fits that description. That makes them an outlier or an anomaly. Not necessarily something that could be copied easily.

3. That's just an absurd. You're making a pretty significant assumption that decisions to increase the athletic fee, years after the football vote was a premeditated move. You don't know that and can't prove that. You can't look back and ask what would have happened if students could see the future. That's not a plausible scenario.

(07-17-2012 09:49 AM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-17-2012 08:37 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, that's some kind of propaganda machine. Actually, here's what happened: When they announced there would be a student vote, there was never a BFFF member on campus. NEVER. I'm on campus most of the day, every day, and there's not a gate to keep people out. Nope, the good ol' BFFF and football supporters couldn't be found. Hell, I didn't even see one of the "Bring Back Football" signs until two weeks before the vote, and there wasn't many. This is a state institution, there was nothing to keep them out, but somehow, they couldn't get their asses here. So, the foundation had an opportunity. It failed in its opportunity.

However, they did do a great job in making football central in the Presidential hiring. Every candidate heard it over & over again. The JC Press certainly wants it back. WJHL wants it back. So, they made sure they also asked the candidates about football. They sent emails to administrators when the Parking Garage was approved to ***** about the fact that this money was 'misused' (of course, these monies are earmarked, but this group doesn't understand what the term means). They have talked to the state reps and have done a good job there in making sure the reps & senators mention it to the Prez when they talk to him. It's just really disappointing from my end the pro-football group doesn't go to the people that en masse, could bring it back: The students. Without a doubt, student fees will have to be increased to bring it back, and the students will pay for it. Of course student fees have increased, but not at the level they would have to be increased to support the money vacuum I-AA football is. The state sure as hell isn't giving us any more money. Where else would the monies come from? How about the 15K+ people who pay to come here?

Wrong time. I'm talking about 2003 when all this started, when all the lying started, when all the deception was initiated, when all the BS was spread. There was no vote. Had the students been told the TRUTH then, that athletic fees would be increased going forward regardless of the athletic model in place, would they have voted to keep football and see it made more competitive with the fee increases, or would thy have voted to eliminate football and use that money along with fee increases to make the minor sports more competitive?

Like I said, all the money had already been shifted to the minor sports and who knows what else by the time the students actually voted.[b][b] By then it was presented as some kind of unethical and horrible idea to cut the minors back to their 2003 levels -- thus, the entire cost of the football restart was on the students.[/b][/b] The dishonesty of this vote has been pointed out many, many times here ---- since the students have not been afforded the vote on any other athletic fee increases or the most recent student funded tennis complex.

Again, given that both schools are spending about the same, which school is spending its athletic money most wisely, ETSU or Georgia Southern?

It was unethical and horrible to cut the non-revenue sports back to their 2003 levels. (And let's be honest, using the major/minor distinction for a school that is "mid-major" at best is really inaccurate. Football at ETSU's level is pretty minor in the college landscape) Back in that time our women's sports had women sleeping four to a hotel room on road trips so that we could fund a football team. There were basically no asst coaches for women's sports that were full time with benefits. We're talking coaches working more than normal full time hours for around $24,000 no benefits. That's barely a living wage. That is pathetic and embarrassing for ETSU. You say we're not a real DI without football, I'd say we're not a real DI if we can't afford enough hotel rooms where the women representing the university don't have to share a bed. Not only is that horrible and unethical, it's also illegal. That was a gender discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen and ETSU would have clearly lost. They had to increase spending on the non-revenue sports simply to be compliant with the laws of the land including Title IX. Increasing the funding for those sports was the right thing to do philosophically, morally, and ethically.