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Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 05:22 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  
Quote:few days ago you were screaming that a $150 billion a year tax cut was going to blow up the deficit and debt and inflation. But absent from your celebratory comments today are any concerns that a $300 billion spending increase the deficit and debt and inflation. Why not?
You think I'm celebrating this?? It's called sarcasm. This tax cut and this budget>2009 stimulus. Except this is going to be year after year. I know Trump bankrupted 3 companies at least. This clown is trying his damndest to bankrupt the US of A. I thought W. was bad. These tax cuts and spending are going to decimate our financial standing. We need to raise revenue.......... NOW! This is beyond the pale.

You do understand that these numbers, even the tax cut plus the additional spending, are still drops in the bucket compared to the recurring blow up of spending that Obama baked into the cake. Without them, CBO was projecting the deficit to be $9.5 trillion over the next 10 years. The tax cut adds $1.5 trillion to that, this budget adds $300 billion in spending, the 10-year total would depend on how much of that is permanent.

So you are screaming about the gate being open after the cows have gotten out and been run over on the highway.

I don't like this deal, but it's probably the only deal that could be done with the democrats led by Schumer. Of course Schumer is a flaming a-hole, but maybe his flameout over DACA and shutting down the government has him in a more reasonable mode. I see Nancy still talking about killing this in the house if it isn't tied to DACA. Good. Let her piss everybody off too. Maybe some sanity will be driven into the voting public.

I posted above how I would do it. We absolutely, positively have to balance the budget for the long term. There is no other way to do it that I can see. If you can see one, have at it. Otherwise get on board (and Mach, I know that you are onboard with most of it).
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 07:22 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-07-2018 05:33 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 02:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Big Spenders and Tax Cuttters..... just goes to show you all those Patriots that dressed up like it was Halloween were full of **** and only cared that people wouldn't get universal health care.


The budget and deficit are going to be BLOWN OUT!!
Really shows the difference between the parties...............

You're right in that establishment politicians are out for themselves and their special interest groups that send them $$$.

But there are plenty of average Joe Americans who believe the government should reign in the out-of-control tax-and-spend.

In a way, it's us against them.
02-07-2018 06:16 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #33
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:13 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Big Spenders and Tax Cuttters..... just goes to show you all those Patriots that dressed up like it was Halloween were full of **** and only cared that people wouldn't get universal health care.


The budget and deficit are going to be BLOWN OUT!!
Really shows the difference between the parties...............

Actually, it showed how much the parties are the same.


Mainly this.

But, as designed in the Senate it is a two-year budget, of course has to reconcile with the House, and they need to get to 60 votes to pass it. This
will add some stability and predictability going forward and that is good.

Further, a lot of this budgeted money has already been spent or obligated. People are already hired and most will be there tomorrow too. Contracts written 3 years ago can’t just go unpaid, pensions paid, mail delivered and a million other things already committed too.

That’s where we are. It’s bloated bureaucracy and Federal government run amuck. It’s gotten SO far out of control I don’t know how on earth we dig our way out of it, or heck, even stop the bleeding.

grow GDP.....

if the corporate tax reduction move doesn't have more of an impact by Q3, more drastic measures will have to be addressed.....

VAT is on the horizon......

the most important move is to eradicate the demonizing from the left.......

that shite simply has to be removed from the pysche of all and every.....

lose the USD??? they'll end up getting a hell they only thought their 40 oz was in a cozy coozy.....

#murderdeathkill
02-07-2018 06:42 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #34
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:48 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:23 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:12 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Thank you for highlighting another reason for why I left the "R" party.
Fiscal conservatism is on life support. We've got a few people who claim it who are basically anarchists and a vast number who only want to cut spending on a few things to make it possible to spend a lot more on others.
Its not so much on life support as it is untenable position in a landscape where the other party is willing to use debt to buy votes. Everyone knows and agrees that the most responsible long term course of action is to eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt. But its in everyone's short term interest to take the freebies the government is handing out. Those people getting those freebies vote. You cant win telling people we are going to make the next 10 years tougher than the last 10.
Lets say there are no cameras around. An ATM is spitting $100 bills into the street. Everyone knows where it came from. Everyone knows its not their money and that it should be returned to the bank. Still, I suspect most people will pick up a few of those bills in the breeze and walk away a few hundred dollars richer--especially if everyone else is doing it. Thats why fiscal conservativism has a tough road to hoe.
I'm going to repeat my observation from about 10 years ago.
The day is approaching where the tax burden will be as high or higher than what people in Europe are paying and we aren't going to be getting the **** they get like medical included in the tax bill, post-K12 education included in the tax bill, paid vacations in the tax bill, and paid maternity leave in the tax bill.
All the costs none of the bling

Our income tax burden is already higher than a lot of Europe. On the corporate side, we are at least now about the middle compared to Europe. They manage simultaneously to provide a more comprehensive welfare safety net and to offer industry and investment a more tax-efficient proposition.

The only solution, without blowing our income tax rates totally out of any remotely competitive range, is to do what Europe does--a consumption tax.

I've run the numbers, and a 15% consumption tax, plus a 15% tax on all forms of business and investment income, plus bumping social security to 15% total (7.5%/7.5%), plus increased Pigovian taxes on alcohol and tobacco and carbon and marijuana (which I would legalize), would give us enough to balance the budget and fix social security with NO individual income tax. That would include Bismarck health care and a guaranteed basic income based on Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder refund. And we could cut defense spending by not fighting any wars that we don't intend to win (like Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan, or Syria where we don't even know whom we want to win), by converting a large part of our standing military force to reserves (the way Israel and Sweden and Switzerland do today, and the way UK did it for centuries), by reforming procurement (more high/low mix and more design and build to cost), and by getting rid of overhead (we have more people in the Pentagon today than it took to win WWII).

That's it. That's the only way the numbers work. If you disagree, try playing with the numbers yourself.

....told ya I'd vote for you.....
02-07-2018 06:45 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:48 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:23 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:12 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Thank you for highlighting another reason for why I left the "R" party.
Fiscal conservatism is on life support. We've got a few people who claim it who are basically anarchists and a vast number who only want to cut spending on a few things to make it possible to spend a lot more on others.
Its not so much on life support as it is untenable position in a landscape where the other party is willing to use debt to buy votes. Everyone knows and agrees that the most responsible long term course of action is to eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt. But its in everyone's short term interest to take the freebies the government is handing out. Those people getting those freebies vote. You cant win telling people we are going to make the next 10 years tougher than the last 10.
Lets say there are no cameras around. An ATM is spitting $100 bills into the street. Everyone knows where it came from. Everyone knows its not their money and that it should be returned to the bank. Still, I suspect most people will pick up a few of those bills in the breeze and walk away a few hundred dollars richer--especially if everyone else is doing it. Thats why fiscal conservativism has a tough road to hoe.
I'm going to repeat my observation from about 10 years ago.
The day is approaching where the tax burden will be as high or higher than what people in Europe are paying and we aren't going to be getting the **** they get like medical included in the tax bill, post-K12 education included in the tax bill, paid vacations in the tax bill, and paid maternity leave in the tax bill.
All the costs none of the bling

Our income tax burden is already higher than a lot of Europe. On the corporate side, we are at least now about the middle compared to Europe. They manage simultaneously to provide a more comprehensive welfare safety net and to offer industry and investment a more tax-efficient proposition.

The only solution, without blowing our income tax rates totally out of any remotely competitive range, is to do what Europe does--a consumption tax.

I've run the numbers, and a 15% consumption tax, plus a 15% tax on all forms of business and investment income, plus bumping social security to 15% total (7.5%/7.5%), plus increased Pigovian taxes on alcohol and tobacco and carbon and marijuana (which I would legalize), would give us enough to balance the budget and fix social security with NO individual income tax. That would include Bismarck health care and a guaranteed basic income based on Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder refund. And we could cut defense spending by not fighting any wars that we don't intend to win (like Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan, or Syria where we don't even know whom we want to win), by converting a large part of our standing military force to reserves (the way Israel and Sweden and Switzerland do today, and the way UK did it for centuries), by reforming procurement (more high/low mix and more design and build to cost), and by getting rid of overhead (we have more people in the Pentagon today than it took to win WWII).

That's it. That's the only way the numbers work. If you disagree, try playing with the numbers yourself.

I 100% agree that our tax code should be completely overhauled to eliminate income taxes in favor of a consumption tax. Those in power are afraid to lose the power of the income because they like to use it to drive policy change and to shape our behavior. Consumption taxes can be used for behavior modification too - we already have the Sin Taxes on alcohol and cigarettes. I would love to see the gov't getting out of the business of playing with the tax code to try to shape who we are. Just give us the rates and leave us alone.
02-08-2018 07:14 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Release the Paul Ryan!
02-08-2018 08:01 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 05:16 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  cue "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

That's right. I forgot Trumpf was in Hollywood when he made his infamous grab 'em by the p.... comment. Trumpf, a true defender of the American males libido. Your hero.

[Image: approve-trump.png]
02-08-2018 08:02 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the exact reason I’ll never vote for a mainstream republican. The only part of the supposed republican platform I agree with is that the federal government is far too large and spends far too much money. The problem is the actual belief among most of them is that it’s far too big and spends far too much only on “social programs” but are content to forever increase military spending. At least the Dems are honest that they don’t care about spending.
02-08-2018 08:17 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and they want health care for people...... Ohhh burn them at the stake. Let's make sure a kid gets cancer treatments before the Koch Brothers get a 1.4 billion dolar tax break...........

Republicans are just pure freaking evil...... They hold no true convictions. They are the party of greed. The party of Satan.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2018 08:39 AM by Machiavelli.)
02-08-2018 08:39 AM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi
(02-08-2018 08:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and they want health care for people...... Ohhh burn them at the stake. Let's make sure a kid gets cancer treatments before the Koch Brothers get a 1.4 billion dolar tax break...........

Republicans are just pure freaking evil...... They hold no true convictions. They are the party of greed. The party of Satan.

We have emails from John Podesta that claims the same of the DNC cupcake but its actual proof not conjecture.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2018 08:50 AM by gdunn.)
02-08-2018 08:50 AM
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