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Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #21
Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Big Spenders and Tax Cuttters..... just goes to show you all those Patriots that dressed up like it was Halloween were full of **** and only cared that people wouldn't get universal health care.


The budget and deficit are going to be BLOWN OUT!!
Really shows the difference between the parties...............

Actually, it showed how much the parties are the same.


Mainly this.

But, as designed in the Senate it is a two-year budget, of course has to reconcile with the House, and they need to get to 60 votes to pass it. This
will add some stability and predictability going forward and that is good.

Further, a lot of this budgeted money has already been spent or obligated. People are already hired and most will be there tomorrow too. Contracts written 3 years ago can’t just go unpaid, pensions paid, mail delivered and a million other things already committed too.

That’s where we are. It’s bloated bureaucracy and Federal government run amuck. It’s gotten SO far out of control I don’t know how on earth we dig our way out of it, or heck, even stop the bleeding.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 04:15 PM by JMUDunk.)
02-07-2018 04:13 PM
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SoMs Eagle Online
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Post: #22
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 03:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 03:37 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 03:23 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 03:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  Actually, it showed how much the parties are the same.

Only thing I've seen change over the years is tax and spend has been replaced by borrow and spend.

In the old TV show News Radio, the station manager is trying to figure out why the budget is blown. He finally discovers that the station owner is having the news helicopter fly him home every day for lunch. To fix the problem the owner has him increase the budget for the helicopter.

People can say whatever they want. No one has been voted out of office for spending on things the voters want and poll after poll shows that the only thing a majority of Americans want cut is foreign aid and that's pocket change in the budget.

Until the voters demand spending cuts, we should begin looking at generating enough tax revenue to cover what the public demands. Until the public has to frickin pay for it, they are fine with spending. National debt is an abstraction. Doesn't matter if the country owes a million or a trillion both numbers in dollars are larger than the average citizen can really get their mind around as real.

Start insisting that the public pay, problem is solved.

See post #12.

Only half pay now for all the social spending. If we ever made the other half pay even a small amount spending would change. It’s easy to spend other people’s money, especially when you get a little of it yourself.

And that "half" that pays only sends in enough to cover about 60% of the actual cost of the government since we borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spend. So, that gives you an idea of how much we need to cut (or raise taxes) to break even.

Actually only a portion of the federal budget is funded by income taxes. Cuts don’t make that big of a deal. The increased economic activity that is spurred by people having more of their money to spend is the real reason revenue increases with tax cuts.
Income tax is a powerful tool wielded by elected politicians to create a base. Those that depend on the underclass to get into office play the tax the rich game. Those that want a strong free economy play the cut taxes game. Simple as that really.
02-07-2018 04:17 PM
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Lord Stanley Online
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Post: #23
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know why I support Trump and don't give a damn about the debt?

Because I am tired of being bullied by liberals who scream that policy disagreements are really racism and bigotry.
Because I am tired of liberals restricting the free speech and encouraging anti-male sexual harassment campus witch hunts.
Because I am tired of having a Hollywood of sexual predators and degenerates lecturing and shaming me toward "proper" thought and behavior.
Because I am tired of watching a weaponized government being used against non-leftists for their political opinions.
Because I am tired of illegal immigration demanding the right to be here while they essentially reject American values, refuse to assimilate, trash the country and support a political party that will use illigal immigration to gain permanent political power.

These were all things voters saw little push back from conservatives and Republicans, but a big push back from Trump. Finally! Trump, someone who will give back as good as we were getting.

So, forget the debt. I am here for the Winning against modern American liberalism.
02-07-2018 04:19 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 02:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:12 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Thank you for highlighting another reason for why I left the "R" party.

Fiscal conservatism is on life support. We've got a few people who claim it who are basically anarchists and a vast number who only want to cut spending on a few things to make it possible to spend a lot more on others.

Its not so much on life support as it is untenable position in a landscape where the other party is willing to use debt to buy votes. Everyone knows and agrees that the most responsible long term course of action is to eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt. But its in everyone's short term interest to take the freebies the government is handing out. Those people getting those freebies vote. You cant win telling people we are going to make the next 10 years tougher than the last 10.

Lets say there are no cameras around. An ATM is spitting $100 bills into the street. Everyone knows where it came from. Everyone knows its not their money and that it should be returned to the bank. Still, I suspect most people will pick up a few of those bills in the breeze and walk away a few hundred dollars richer--especially if everyone else is doing it. Thats why fiscal conservativism has a tough road to hoe.

I'm going to repeat my observation from about 10 years ago.

The day is approaching where the tax burden will be as high or higher than what people in Europe are paying and we aren't going to be getting the **** they get like medical included in the tax bill, post-K12 education included in the tax bill, paid vacations in the tax bill, and paid maternity leave in the tax bill.

All the costs none of the bling
02-07-2018 04:23 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #25
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 02:04 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Woo Hoooooo Cowboys........
Don't you guys EVER criticize a budget again. You can't control spending when R's are in charge. Only time spending is curtailed is when a D is in charge because you guys at heart are obstructionists.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-senate-...07098.html

So Mach, here's my question.

A few days ago you were screaming that a $150 billion a year tax cut was going to blow up the deficit and debt and inflation. But absent from your celebratory comments today are any concerns that a $300 billion spending increase the deficit and debt and inflation. Why not?
02-07-2018 04:34 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #26
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:23 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:12 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Thank you for highlighting another reason for why I left the "R" party.
Fiscal conservatism is on life support. We've got a few people who claim it who are basically anarchists and a vast number who only want to cut spending on a few things to make it possible to spend a lot more on others.
Its not so much on life support as it is untenable position in a landscape where the other party is willing to use debt to buy votes. Everyone knows and agrees that the most responsible long term course of action is to eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt. But its in everyone's short term interest to take the freebies the government is handing out. Those people getting those freebies vote. You cant win telling people we are going to make the next 10 years tougher than the last 10.
Lets say there are no cameras around. An ATM is spitting $100 bills into the street. Everyone knows where it came from. Everyone knows its not their money and that it should be returned to the bank. Still, I suspect most people will pick up a few of those bills in the breeze and walk away a few hundred dollars richer--especially if everyone else is doing it. Thats why fiscal conservativism has a tough road to hoe.
I'm going to repeat my observation from about 10 years ago.
The day is approaching where the tax burden will be as high or higher than what people in Europe are paying and we aren't going to be getting the **** they get like medical included in the tax bill, post-K12 education included in the tax bill, paid vacations in the tax bill, and paid maternity leave in the tax bill.
All the costs none of the bling

Our income tax burden is already higher than a lot of Europe. On the corporate side, we are at least now about the middle compared to Europe. They manage simultaneously to provide a more comprehensive welfare safety net and to offer industry and investment a more tax-efficient proposition.

The only solution, without blowing our income tax rates totally out of any remotely competitive range, is to do what Europe does--a consumption tax.

I've run the numbers, and a 15% consumption tax, plus a 15% tax on all forms of business and investment income, plus bumping social security to 15% total (7.5%/7.5%), plus increased Pigovian taxes on alcohol and tobacco and carbon and marijuana (which I would legalize), would give us enough to balance the budget and fix social security with NO individual income tax. That would include Bismarck health care and a guaranteed basic income based on Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder refund. And we could cut defense spending by not fighting any wars that we don't intend to win (like Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan, or Syria where we don't even know whom we want to win), by converting a large part of our standing military force to reserves (the way Israel and Sweden and Switzerland do today, and the way UK did it for centuries), by reforming procurement (more high/low mix and more design and build to cost), and by getting rid of overhead (we have more people in the Pentagon today than it took to win WWII).

That's it. That's the only way the numbers work. If you disagree, try playing with the numbers yourself.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 04:49 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-07-2018 04:48 PM
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Old Dominion Online
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Post: #27
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:13 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Big Spenders and Tax Cuttters..... just goes to show you all those Patriots that dressed up like it was Halloween were full of **** and only cared that people wouldn't get universal health care.


The budget and deficit are going to be BLOWN OUT!!
Really shows the difference between the parties...............

Actually, it showed how much the parties are the same.


Mainly this.

But, as designed in the Senate it is a two-year budget, of course has to reconcile with the House, and they need to get to 60 votes to pass it. This
will add some stability and predictability going forward and that is good.

Further, a lot of this budgeted money has already been spent or obligated. People are already hired and most will be there tomorrow too. Contracts written 3 years ago can’t just go unpaid, pensions paid, mail delivered and a million other things already committed too.

That’s where we are. It’s bloated bureaucracy and Federal government run amuck. It’s gotten SO far out of control I don’t know how on earth we dig our way out of it, or heck, even stop the bleeding.

Pretty much agree, but I do get heart burn when either party proposes MORE money for the military than they actually requested.

The military is a sacred cow an I get that, but it shouldn't go totally unrestrained. I'd really love to know how many billions are squandered due to lack of oversight.
02-07-2018 04:51 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:23 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 02:12 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Thank you for highlighting another reason for why I left the "R" party.

Fiscal conservatism is on life support. We've got a few people who claim it who are basically anarchists and a vast number who only want to cut spending on a few things to make it possible to spend a lot more on others.

Its not so much on life support as it is untenable position in a landscape where the other party is willing to use debt to buy votes. Everyone knows and agrees that the most responsible long term course of action is to eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt. But its in everyone's short term interest to take the freebies the government is handing out. Those people getting those freebies vote. You cant win telling people we are going to make the next 10 years tougher than the last 10.

Lets say there are no cameras around. An ATM is spitting $100 bills into the street. Everyone knows where it came from. Everyone knows its not their money and that it should be returned to the bank. Still, I suspect most people will pick up a few of those bills in the breeze and walk away a few hundred dollars richer--especially if everyone else is doing it. Thats why fiscal conservativism has a tough road to hoe.

I'm going to repeat my observation from about 10 years ago.

The day is approaching where the tax burden will be as high or higher than what people in Europe are paying and we aren't going to be getting the **** they get like medical included in the tax bill, post-K12 education included in the tax bill, paid vacations in the tax bill, and paid maternity leave in the tax bill.

All the costs none of the bling


Yup. One place Trump is right---we cant continue to foot the defense bill for West. Thats a big hunk of our budget. The rest is entitlements. Good luck cutting either of those.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 04:57 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-07-2018 04:56 PM
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Old Dominion Online
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Post: #29
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-07-2018 04:19 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  You know why I support Trump and don't give a damn about the debt?

Because I am tired of being bullied by liberals who scream that policy disagreements are really racism and bigotry.
Because I am tired of liberals restricting the free speech and encouraging anti-male sexual harassment campus witch hunts.
Because I am tired of having a Hollywood of sexual predators and degenerates lecturing and shaming me toward "proper" thought and behavior.
Because I am tired of watching a weaponized government being used against non-leftists for their political opinions.
Because I am tired of illegal immigration demanding the right to be here while they essentially reject American values, refuse to assimilate, trash the country and support a political party that will use illigal immigration to gain permanent political power.

These were all things voters saw little push back from conservatives and Republicans, but a big push back from Trump. Finally! Trump, someone who will give back as good as we were getting.

So, forget the debt. I am here for the Winning against modern American liberalism.

cue "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

That's right. I forgot Trumpf was in Hollywood when he made his infamous grab 'em by the p.... comment. Trumpf, a true defender of the American males libido. Your hero.
02-07-2018 05:16 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
few days ago you were screaming that a $150 billion a year tax cut was going to blow up the deficit and debt and inflation. But absent from your celebratory comments today are any concerns that a $300 billion spending increase the deficit and debt and inflation. Why not?


You think I'm celebrating this?? It's called sarcasm. This tax cut and this budget>2009 stimulus. Except this is going to be year after year. I know Trump bankrupted 3 companies at least. This clown is trying his damndest to bankrupt the US of A. I thought W. was bad. These tax cuts and spending are going to decimate our financial standing. We need to raise revenue.......... NOW! This is beyond the pale.
02-07-2018 05:22 PM
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