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What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
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Post: #21
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-06-2017 03:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Also boys sometimes chromosomal problems don’t pop up until after the 20th week. We didn’t even know there was an issue until the 5th month. They saw a bubble on the umbilical cord and then they ordered an ambioscentisis. Remember it like it was yesterday. We had a day to decide whether to terminate the pregnancy. That was a fun ride home. Just trust me. The govt and you have now business in telling a family what they should do with their lives. Can any of you pro lifers think for a second the hidden resentment you would have if you were forced to care for a child that needed 24-7 nursing care? That HAS to be a decision YOU made not anybody else.

That's a pretty tough case. But I know a couple (very young, of course) who adopted a baby from Russia with no arms and no legs. That is pretty amazing. I couldn't be that good.

But I am thankful every day that my children's birth parents chose life. And one is special needs (not anywhere as extreme as that, but its been a challenge).
10-06-2017 04:30 PM
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Post: #22
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
Despite the party's positions, abortion really isn't a partisan issue. I have a fundamentalist sister who was a Cruz supporter who is VERY pro-life. My parents, who were ardent Trump supporters, are very pro-choice. The rest of us are sympathetic to pro-life, but not as strong on it as my sister.
10-06-2017 04:34 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-05-2017 09:17 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:22 PM)Claw Wrote:  Do you really want the government making your wife's medical decisions?

That's where this ends. The state statistics say procedure a is more likely to keep your baby alive so your doctor will have no legal choice in treatment.

I want the government to protect innocent life.

Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

I mostly agree that unless the health of the mother is in jeopardy, nothing should occur after a certain number of weeks. The problem is that every case is likely different. And I would trust the doctors, along with the mothers, to make their own best interest decision more than the government placing an arbitrary standard.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2017 08:45 AM by Redwingtom.)
10-09-2017 08:39 AM
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Post: #24
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

A Christian shouldn't be asking this question.
10-09-2017 08:54 AM
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Post: #25
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 08:54 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

A Christian shouldn't be asking this question.

^ comments like this are why this is such a ridiculous board...
10-09-2017 08:59 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #26
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 08:54 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

A Christian shouldn't be asking this question.

That's ridiculous. This is clearly a debatable topic among many learned Christians. Not to mention the fact that when setting government policy, it needs to be done outside of religious dogma.
10-09-2017 09:00 AM
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Post: #27
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 09:00 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:54 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

A Christian shouldn't be asking this question.

That's ridiculous. This is clearly a debatable topic among many learned Christians. Not to mention the fact that when setting government policy, it needs to be done outside of religious dogma.

Its ultimately about when an unborn child becomes "human" and thus has a "right to life." So it is a spiritual question.
10-09-2017 09:38 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #28
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 09:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 09:00 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:54 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

A Christian shouldn't be asking this question.

That's ridiculous. This is clearly a debatable topic among many learned Christians. Not to mention the fact that when setting government policy, it needs to be done outside of religious dogma.

Its ultimately about when an unborn child becomes "human" and thus has a "right to life." So it is a spiritual question.

To Christians it can be, but we're making a governmental decision here...or at least debating one. Spiritual and religious definitions don't really apply here as we have to assume our government is neither just as it was founded.
10-09-2017 09:49 AM
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Post: #29
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 09:00 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:54 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

A Christian shouldn't be asking this question.

That's ridiculous. This is clearly a debatable topic among many learned Christians. Not to mention the fact that when setting government policy, it needs to be done outside of religious dogma.

Not learned Christians who have actually read Jeremiah 1:5 and actually believe the Bible. This is where you have to ask yourself: are you a true Christian, or a buffet Christian?
10-09-2017 10:48 AM
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Post: #30
RE: What's wrong with banning abortion after 20 weeks?
(10-09-2017 08:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 09:17 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:22 PM)Claw Wrote:  Do you really want the government making your wife's medical decisions?

That's where this ends. The state statistics say procedure a is more likely to keep your baby alive so your doctor will have no legal choice in treatment.

I want the government to protect innocent life.

Is it life if it cannot live on its own outside the womb?

I mostly agree that unless the health of the mother is in jeopardy, nothing should occur after a certain number of weeks. The problem is that every case is likely different. And I would trust the doctors, along with the mothers, to make their own best interest decision more than the government placing an arbitrary standard.

Oooh, dangerous path to tread.

Can a newborn live outside the womb without any interaction with others?

Can a toddler live outside the womb without any interaction with others?

What about a teen who has a sever disability? Can she live outside the womb without any interaction with others?

My elderly grandmother who contracted Alzheimers which eventually incapacitated her... she wasn't able to live outside the womb without any interaction with others.


Here's the one and only criteria: are we talking about a human -- regardless of stage of development.
  • Once fertilized, the human embryo has its own unique DNA. The baby needs no other genetic input.
  • The baby is alive as demonstrated by growth and development.
  • The only external input required is oxygen and nutrients. And this remains true whether the baby is inside the mother's womb or outside.
10-09-2017 10:57 AM
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