(01-20-2017 06:49 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  A-Sun grabbed a desperate New Jersey Tech.

NJIT beat Michigan and a couple of other teams one year.

(01-20-2017 04:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 02:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 12:31 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 12:22 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Would Chicago State be any better off in the Atlantic Sun? If they do recover that may be a more logical place for them to go than the WAC.

Presuming that they're staying in business, which is a pretty big presumption at this point, they'd be better off in Division III, where at least their athletes are paying their way and they can get money off of that.

From a strictly geographic standpoint, they would be best suited in the Horizon or MVC, but for obvious reasons that won't be happening for quite some time and probably won't ever happen.

I can't imagine any conference touching them with a 1,000-mile pole unless they're in extreme danger of dissolving without adding teams. And even then ...

Knew a guy who was a recruiter (academic) for a liberal arts college that plays in Division III.

He gets involved in some of the athletic stuff and said one of the recruiting deal breakers is some kids (and PARENTS) don't care if junior qualifies for an academic scholarship they want the glory of being awarded an athletic scholarship and will lose students to a Division II that will cost them more out of pocket because it is an athletic scholarship.

I tend to think that if Chicago State survives and keeps athletics that Division II would be easier to sell to prospects.

There are people like that. I guess my views are informed from my time as a sportswriter in Virginia, where outside of three (now two) HBCU schools, non-D1 college sports almost always meant D3. And people were willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money — like $40,000 to $60,000 yearly — to send their kids to small private schools primarily so they can keep on playing their sport of choice.

I suspect, though obviously I have no intimate knowledge of their situation outside what's been discussed here, that they'd benefit more from being able to charge full tuition ($7,000 in state, $14,000 out) and room/board to all their athletes, even if at a lower level of competition, than to continue to give even a lower number of scholarships at Division II.

In Arkansas we only have two Division III schools but seven Division II. Both Division III are private and two of the Division II are private. Six more privates are in the NAIA.

The only two that are Division III are University of the Ozarks affiliated with the Presbyterian Church and rated "top tier" in the South by US News and Hendrix College nominally affiliated with the Methodist Church is rated as a top 100 liberal arts college rated top 50 in producing science PhD candidates (and is THE college to attend in Arkansas if you want to go to med school).

None of the privates awarding scholarships (except Lyon a member of the NAIA) are in the academic range of the Division III schools.

My gut instinct and that's really all it is, is that a school that is an unranked regional university like Chicago State may have students willing to play non-scholarship but isn't likely to attract many for that purpose and would net more by attracting extra students lured by the discount of a partial scholarship.

(01-21-2017 02:23 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 04:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 02:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 12:31 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 12:22 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Would Chicago State be any better off in the Atlantic Sun? If they do recover that may be a more logical place for them to go than the WAC.

Presuming that they're staying in business, which is a pretty big presumption at this point, they'd be better off in Division III, where at least their athletes are paying their way and they can get money off of that.

From a strictly geographic standpoint, they would be best suited in the Horizon or MVC, but for obvious reasons that won't be happening for quite some time and probably won't ever happen.

I can't imagine any conference touching them with a 1,000-mile pole unless they're in extreme danger of dissolving without adding teams. And even then ...

Knew a guy who was a recruiter (academic) for a liberal arts college that plays in Division III.

He gets involved in some of the athletic stuff and said one of the recruiting deal breakers is some kids (and PARENTS) don't care if junior qualifies for an academic scholarship they want the glory of being awarded an athletic scholarship and will lose students to a Division II that will cost them more out of pocket because it is an athletic scholarship.

I tend to think that if Chicago State survives and keeps athletics that Division II would be easier to sell to prospects.

There are people like that. I guess my views are informed from my time as a sportswriter in Virginia, where outside of three (now two) HBCU schools, non-D1 college sports almost always meant D3. And people were willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money — like $40,000 to $60,000 yearly — to send their kids to small private schools primarily so they can keep on playing their sport of choice.

I suspect, though obviously I have no intimate knowledge of their situation outside what's been discussed here, that they'd benefit more from being able to charge full tuition ($7,000 in state, $14,000 out) and room/board to all their athletes, even if at a lower level of competition, than to continue to give even a lower number of scholarships at Division II.

In Arkansas we only have two Division III schools but seven Division II. Both Division III are private and two of the Division II are private. Six more privates are in the NAIA.

The only two that are Division III are University of the Ozarks affiliated with the Presbyterian Church and rated "top tier" in the South by US News and Hendrix College nominally affiliated with the Methodist Church is rated as a top 100 liberal arts college rated top 50 in producing science PhD candidates (and is THE college to attend in Arkansas if you want to go to med school).

None of the privates awarding scholarships (except Lyon a member of the NAIA) are in the academic range of the Division III schools.

My gut instinct and that's really all it is, is that a school that is an unranked regional university like Chicago State may have students willing to play non-scholarship but isn't likely to attract many for that purpose and would net more by attracting extra students lured by the discount of a partial scholarship.

Arkansas Tech University-OZark campus as well. They count both campuses as one.

There is only one other football school in Arkansas and that is in Little Rock as Arkansas Baptist have one at the NJCAA level.

John Brown is weighing on adding football at the NAIA level.

This thread has prompted me to create a new acronym: PooYAWNE -- Pulled out of Your A__ With No Evidence.

Pronounced "Pooh Yawn".

(01-15-2017 11:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  UC Davis and Cal Poly want to be FBS down the road.

PooYAWNE

(01-16-2017 12:05 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Having yet another member in SoCal does nothing to increase regional exposure, something the conference desperately needs.

Then there's the ever precious Cal State - UC balance to consider.

...

The opportunities will shrink further if UCSD is added alone.

PooYAWNE
PooYAWNE
PooYAWNE

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  UCSD isn't a normal Division II move-up, though. As others have noted, it would be the most academically prestigious school in the Big West, it fits in perfectly geographically, it's located in a large market, and it's going to be well-funded.

100% correct.

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Once again, many people are not thinking like university presidents here. In their world, UCSD is a *powerhouse* academic institution. They're not merely good - they're a legit *powerhouse*. When it comes to public universities, they're right on the next tier below the very top level of Berkeley/Michigan/UCLA/UVA.

100% on the gist.

Wrong on the specific claim --- UCSD is in the elite of the elite tier, when it comes to public universities in the country.

#5 nationally in research (#1 UC school other than San Frinciso -- which only does medical research) https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_18.html

#40 ranked in the world (QS), where Berkeley is #28 and UCLA is #31
http://www.topuniversities.com/universit...kings/2016

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I can't imagine that the Big West presidents would give two craps about what occurs to New Mexico State or any other school outside of the state of California or Hawaii (and especially a for-profit school like GCU).

100% correct.

(01-16-2017 01:51 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  My understanding is CSUB wanted the Big West, but the Big West kind of made them wait. I can't see the doors flinging open for UCSD

UCSD might not get a Big West invite, but the reason would have absolutely nothing to do with CUSB not getting in. The two institutions have literally nothing in common. Other than being universities in the state of California.

(01-16-2017 07:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The XDSU's would scream bloody murder at an MVFC split
...
NDSU has been out to screw our fb team since day one.

PooYAWNE
PooYAWNE

(01-17-2017 01:14 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

Very good.

But that has literally nothing to do with UCSD.

(01-18-2017 12:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  If BYU gets a P5 invite, Cal Baptist might have fewer Gonzaga roadblocks than Seattle.

The WCC are Catholic.

Cal Baptist is ... well ... Baptist.


Obviously BYU doesn't count, given the size of its support and strength of its programs. It could've been a Satanist University for all the WCC cared.

(01-19-2017 11:58 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  They don't move the needle at all or the conference closer to two bids.

Nor would any other team that the Big West could reasonably add!

(01-19-2017 11:58 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Adding three of Bakersfield, NMSU, Grand Canyon and UCSD is the way to go.

Except that NMSU and GCU aren't on the table.

(01-19-2017 01:01 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD has their negatives too as far as the BW is concerned. Another slice of the pie to be divided, additional in-state competition for recruiting, and the worsening of the geographic imbalance.

PooYAWNE

Big West presidents absolutely do not think that. You're pretty much the only one.

(01-19-2017 03:55 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Not to mention the significant decrease in student-travel time.

UMKC has less travel time in the WAC than the Summit??

You must be using a sundial for your timer.

(01-20-2017 07:55 PM)NoDak Wrote:  What posters here don't seem to understand is just how valuable a WAC, with FBS granting rights

The ones that you made up, as there is no evidence to support that they would actually be allowed to do that??

Good luck with that.

(01-20-2017 08:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 08:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If FBS is in the WAC's cards, I can't imagine Omaha being allowed to join it by the powers that be in Lincoln. There will be only one Division I football team in the state of Nebraska, and it will play its home games in Lincoln.

Denver and UMKC wouldn't start fb either. Hockey is the major revenue provider at certain schools, and they stick together and watch out for each other..

If this were the case, wouldn't it make more sense for UND and UMKC to move to the Summit, a league that isn't going to consider a mythical FBS as their main sport and is more geographically friendly to all four schools?

(01-20-2017 09:32 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 06:49 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  A-Sun grabbed a desperate New Jersey Tech.

NJIT beat Michigan and a couple of other teams one year.

NJIT's also a legitimate school, and not a corporation or an urban community college that tries to pass for a four-year university.

NJIT would be in a more fitting geographic conference in the northeast if they did what was asked of them to gain support from those conferences. At least, for America East's sake, who told them what they had to do, NJIT pretty much just said "we'll get there, but we're going to upgrade anyway." So, out into the wilderness they go.

NJIT isn't like those two in the WAC. NJIT's situation exposes one of the other problems lurking in the NCAA, and it's that sponsorship thing. It's the ambiguous and political garbage that's allowed to happen where two schools could have the same profile on paper, but one can be allowed through while another isn't for no other reason than choice. In NJIT's case, what they've been put through, it's not even the America East's to own, though we know they were the ones trying to get NJIT to a place where they wanted to accept them, but the NEC and MAAC with their snobbery as well (NEC with nearly irrelevant and invisible FDU screaming "no," and the MAAC not bothering with public schools).

It's a shame Atlantic Sun can't seem to crack further into the north to build that bridge to New Jersey, or even further north. If those issue-heavy HBCU's in MEAC could look past their history and figure out that they have to adapt and change to survive in today's world and higher education in that setting, this could done for Atlantic Sun. I mean, don't cry for A-Sun...there's plenty of schools in FL, GA, and now we see one in AL who will take their chances in D1 after floating around D2. There may be more in the northeast looking to do the same (DavidSt is adamant about IUP up in PA, but I still don't see it), but it's a tall order going from an operation of D2 and tight regional scheduling to something where you could be the northernmost member of a conference that's pretty much anchored in FL.

A-Sun can grow and remain regionally cohesive, with or without NJIT. That's not the case with the WAC.

(01-21-2017 11:28 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  This thread has prompted me to create a new acronym: PooYAWNE -- Pulled out of Your A__ With No Evidence.

Pronounced "Pooh Yawn".

(01-15-2017 11:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  UC Davis and Cal Poly want to be FBS down the road.

PooYAWNE

(01-16-2017 12:05 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Having yet another member in SoCal does nothing to increase regional exposure, something the conference desperately needs.

Then there's the ever precious Cal State - UC balance to consider.

...

The opportunities will shrink further if UCSD is added alone.

PooYAWNE
PooYAWNE
PooYAWNE

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  UCSD isn't a normal Division II move-up, though. As others have noted, it would be the most academically prestigious school in the Big West, it fits in perfectly geographically, it's located in a large market, and it's going to be well-funded.

100% correct.

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Once again, many people are not thinking like university presidents here. In their world, UCSD is a *powerhouse* academic institution. They're not merely good - they're a legit *powerhouse*. When it comes to public universities, they're right on the next tier below the very top level of Berkeley/Michigan/UCLA/UVA.

100% on the gist.

Wrong on the specific claim --- UCSD is in the elite of the elite tier, when it comes to public universities in the country.

#5 nationally in research (#1 UC school other than San Frinciso -- which only does medical research) https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_18.html

#40 ranked in the world (QS), where Berkeley is #28 and UCLA is #31
http://www.topuniversities.com/universit...kings/2016

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I can't imagine that the Big West presidents would give two craps about what occurs to New Mexico State or any other school outside of the state of California or Hawaii (and especially a for-profit school like GCU).

100% correct.

(01-16-2017 01:51 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  My understanding is CSUB wanted the Big West, but the Big West kind of made them wait. I can't see the doors flinging open for UCSD

UCSD might not get a Big West invite, but the reason would have absolutely nothing to do with CUSB not getting in. The two institutions have literally nothing in common. Other than being universities in the state of California.

(01-16-2017 07:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The XDSU's would scream bloody murder at an MVFC split
...
NDSU has been out to screw our fb team since day one.

PooYAWNE
PooYAWNE

(01-17-2017 01:14 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

Very good.

But that has literally nothing to do with UCSD.

(01-18-2017 12:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  If BYU gets a P5 invite, Cal Baptist might have fewer Gonzaga roadblocks than Seattle.

The WCC are Catholic.

Cal Baptist is ... well ... Baptist.


Obviously BYU doesn't count, given the size of its support and strength of its programs. It could've been a Satanist University for all the WCC cared.

(01-19-2017 11:58 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  They don't move the needle at all or the conference closer to two bids.

Nor would any other team that the Big West could reasonably add!

(01-19-2017 11:58 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Adding three of Bakersfield, NMSU, Grand Canyon and UCSD is the way to go.

Except that NMSU and GCU aren't on the table.

(01-19-2017 01:01 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD has their negatives too as far as the BW is concerned. Another slice of the pie to be divided, additional in-state competition for recruiting, and the worsening of the geographic imbalance.

PooYAWNE

Big West presidents absolutely do not think that. You're pretty much the only one.

(01-19-2017 03:55 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Not to mention the significant decrease in student-travel time.

UMKC has less travel time in the WAC than the Summit??

You must be using a sundial for your timer.

(01-20-2017 07:55 PM)NoDak Wrote:  What posters here don't seem to understand is just how valuable a WAC, with FBS granting rights

The ones that you made up, as there is no evidence to support that they would actually be allowed to do that??

Good luck with that.

Yes. The UMKC AD has said that the travel time has decreased nicely because of the direct flights from KC.

(01-21-2017 11:28 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  This thread has prompted me to create a new acronym: PooYAWNE -- Pulled out of Your A__ With No Evidence.

Pronounced "Pooh Yawn".

Pretty much describes all your posts.

Good grief