(01-17-2017 09:57 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 01:16 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  Just to stir the pot...

Cal Baptist's president is widely known to be ambitious and sports crazy. The only truly "like" school in the WAC is Seattle U (or GCU if they find a way to go non-profit). They don't want to be Cal State Bakersfield. They want to be Pepperdine or Loyola Marymount.

They want to be in the WCC.

And they want Gonzaga coming to their new arena.

I just don't see the WCC getting any larger, nor do I see them losing anyone, not even BYU. The Mountain West has grown to big to attempt the old Big East model, but CBU wouldn't have been able to join the WCC then anyway.

If they want to play Gonzaga in their barn, they can write a check.

My only point is how CBU sees themselves, and where they want to be. With conferences, things change. Who's to say they won't be welcomed into the WCC in 10-15 years? Or 5?

They see D1 Baptist schools around the country like Baylor and Liberty, and see that there's nothing that size on the west coast. They see a vacuum, and an opportunity. And so far, they've grown from a sleepy little 800 student NAIA school that never won anything to a 9000 student D2 powerhouse in just over 10 years. If this trajectory continues, there will be conferences begging them to join. But that's a big "if".

Here's their "ancient" NAIA history through '06:
http://groups.apu.edu/gsacsports/gsacmbkhistory.html

Azusa Pacific, Dixie State and West Texas A&M both have 10,000 + capacity for their football stadiums. All three are doing major projects on their campuses as we speak including adding onto their sports facilities. Central Washington is also doing some upgrading on their football stadium. You got to expect the GNAC football members are seeing the writing on the wall that they could lose an autobid to the football playoffs and are doing some work on their facilities. The only reason I think the GNAC could be a target is for a split between the Big Sky schools into 2, and bring up all 5 GNAC football schools and maybe a Dixie State and a couple of other RMAC schools. Maybe both West Texas A&M and Angelo State as well.

You got to wonder if there is some rule changes since the FCOAs have been introduce that the D2 have some representatives gone to some NCAA D1 meetings the past couple of years. Maybe there could be a relax of the rules that the WAC could bring up a couple of D2 schools up at the same. Azusa Pacific could be BYU in WCC and football as an Independent or an affiliate to the Big Sky.

(01-18-2017 01:51 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 01:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 01:13 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 12:10 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Dollar:

"You heard it here first, [Cal Baptist] is not going to be the last one. Nope, they're not. I won't say too much on it."

Intriguing.

The WAC is going after UCSD and I don't blame it at all.

The WAC is like an ugly geek to a beautiful model, UCSD. Good luck with that!

Assuming Dollar really knows something, my guess is that the other WAC addition will be Azusa Pacific, which completed its NAIA to DII transition a couple of years ago. Its athletic budget is in the $9-$10 million range which is only a bit below what it would need to compete at the D-I level. The school is about the same size as Seattle and Cal Baptist, views itself as a Cal Baptist peer, and has decent (by WAC standards) athletic facilities including a modern 3,500-seat gym.





Although Azusa Pacific plays football, its situation in the GNAC is a bad one and as others have pointed out, it won't hurt the school financially to move football up to FCS and join the Pioneer League. Azusa Pacific's current football attendance of roughly 5,000 per game is already about double USD's, and would put it among the top three in the Pioneer League.

Azusa was the birthplace of the Pentecostal movement for the world. Azusa Pacific is dear to the hearts of many charismatics as it's sort of Holy Ground, unlIke Baptist or Catholic universities here in the US.

(01-18-2017 05:09 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 09:57 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 01:16 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  Just to stir the pot...

Cal Baptist's president is widely known to be ambitious and sports crazy. The only truly "like" school in the WAC is Seattle U (or GCU if they find a way to go non-profit). They don't want to be Cal State Bakersfield. They want to be Pepperdine or Loyola Marymount.

They want to be in the WCC.

And they want Gonzaga coming to their new arena.

I just don't see the WCC getting any larger, nor do I see them losing anyone, not even BYU. The Mountain West has grown to big to attempt the old Big East model, but CBU wouldn't have been able to join the WCC then anyway.

If they want to play Gonzaga in their barn, they can write a check.

My only point is how CBU sees themselves, and where they want to be. With conferences, things change. Who's to say they won't be welcomed into the WCC in 10-15 years? Or 5?

They see D1 Baptist schools around the country like Baylor and Liberty, and see that there's nothing that size on the west coast. They see a vacuum, and an opportunity. And so far, they've grown from a sleepy little 800 student NAIA school that never won anything to a 9000 student D2 powerhouse in just over 10 years. If this trajectory continues, there will be conferences begging them to join. But that's a big "if".

Here's their "ancient" NAIA history through '06:
http://groups.apu.edu/gsacsports/gsacmbkhistory.html

A DI move can be groundbreaking strategy to get more LA Basin students aware that it is a clear choice. If it decides to go online more with classes, the move offers free advertising. When Grand Canyon went DI, it's stock went up in a major way.

(01-17-2017 11:35 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:24 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  Supposedly, more WAC expansion news is coming. Source is the Seattle U head bball coach.

Saw the comment from the coach. Guess the WAC will get another school by the end of season?
Think this one will be an existing D1 school. Can't have 2 D2 schools transitioning at the same time cause of scheduling issues.

Does anyone have a link to the quote here or the mentioned quote from an NMSU coach?

(01-18-2017 08:10 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:35 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:24 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  Supposedly, more WAC expansion news is coming. Source is the Seattle U head bball coach.

Saw the comment from the coach. Guess the WAC will get another school by the end of season?
Think this one will be an existing D1 school. Can't have 2 D2 schools transitioning at the same time cause of scheduling issues.

Does anyone have a link to the quote here or the mentioned quote from an NMSU coach?

The WAC Scout board has them.

(01-18-2017 08:10 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:35 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:24 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  Supposedly, more WAC expansion news is coming. Source is the Seattle U head bball coach.

Saw the comment from the coach. Guess the WAC will get another school by the end of season?
Think this one will be an existing D1 school. Can't have 2 D2 schools transitioning at the same time cause of scheduling issues.

Does anyone have a link to the quote here or the mentioned quote from an NMSU coach?

https://www.facebook.com/GoSeattleU/?hc_...S_TIMELINE

scroll down a little to get the interview. around the 7:25 mark Coach Dollar will talk about Cal Baptist and that they won't be the last team.

(01-18-2017 08:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:10 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:35 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:24 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  Supposedly, more WAC expansion news is coming. Source is the Seattle U head bball coach.

Saw the comment from the coach. Guess the WAC will get another school by the end of season?
Think this one will be an existing D1 school. Can't have 2 D2 schools transitioning at the same time cause of scheduling issues.

Does anyone have a link to the quote here or the mentioned quote from an NMSU coach?

https://www.facebook.com/GoSeattleU/?hc_...S_TIMELINE

scroll down a little to get the interview. around the 7:25 mark Coach Dollar will talk about Cal Baptist and that they won't be the last team.

Thanks for the info. He sounds quite confident.

(01-18-2017 08:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 08:10 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:35 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 11:24 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  Supposedly, more WAC expansion news is coming. Source is the Seattle U head bball coach.

Saw the comment from the coach. Guess the WAC will get another school by the end of season?
Think this one will be an existing D1 school. Can't have 2 D2 schools transitioning at the same time cause of scheduling issues.

Does anyone have a link to the quote here or the mentioned quote from an NMSU coach?

https://www.facebook.com/GoSeattleU/?hc_...S_TIMELINE

scroll down a little to get the interview. around the 7:25 mark Coach Dollar will talk about Cal Baptist and that they won't be the last team.

I had forgotten that Cameron Dollar was at Seattle U now. It probably helped CBU that there was an advocate for the GSAC quality of play and schools in the WAC ranks. Probably increases the likelihood - slightly - in my mind that APU will be included.

Lets not forget that West Texas A&M is going to build an on campus football stadium,and the plans for the future to be close to 25,000. That is large enough if they are planing on to getting back the FBS when they used to be from 1978-1982. They make a good travel partner for New Mexico State for all sports.

Western Washington and Western Oregon could be paired with Seattle U.

Angelo State or Lamar as paired with UTRGV.

Cameron, Rogers State, Central Oklahoma, Drury or Washburn as a pair with UMKC.

Colorado State-Pueblo as paired to Grand Canyon U.

(01-17-2017 07:41 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 01:14 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

Was it Cal. State-Bakersfield's men's basketball team made the big dance of 68 last year by winning the WAC title?

Circling back to this one, because, yeah...that should shoot down some of the big talkers...probably doesn't do enough, though. Even if they have as many as or more than something a third of the current Big West programs have in men's basketball. But, this is higher ed...CSUB could get twenty bids...certain schools won't care. But, if UC-Riverside EVER shows up and were to win one, or UCSD or UC-Davis...well, that's why we took them, don't you know?!

(01-19-2017 09:53 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 07:41 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 01:14 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

Was it Cal. State-Bakersfield's men's basketball team made the big dance of 68 last year by winning the WAC title?

Circling back to this one, because, yeah...that should shoot down some of the big talkers...probably doesn't do enough, though. Even if they have as many as or more than something a third of the current Big West programs have in men's basketball. But, this is higher ed...CSUB could get twenty bids...certain schools won't care. But, if UC-Riverside EVER shows up and were to win one, or UCSD or UC-Davis...well, that's why we took them, don't you know?!

Bakersfield actually draws fans, which is another negative for the Big West as only Hawaii does now.

I don't think the BW Cal States even want Bakersfield. They don't move the needle at all or the conference closer to two bids. I suppose they would bring in a new market though.

Adding three of Bakersfield, NMSU, Grand Canyon and UCSD is the way to go. New money and an intriguing market with GCU, a former member with good basketball and academic clout in NMSU.

(01-19-2017 09:53 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 07:41 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 01:14 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

Was it Cal. State-Bakersfield's men's basketball team made the big dance of 68 last year by winning the WAC title?

Circling back to this one, because, yeah...that should shoot down some of the big talkers...probably doesn't do enough, though. Even if they have as many as or more than something a third of the current Big West programs have in men's basketball. But, this is higher ed...CSUB could get twenty bids...certain schools won't care. But, if UC-Riverside EVER shows up and were to win one, or UCSD or UC-Davis...well, that's why we took them, don't you know?!

The Big West doesn't benefit from adding CSUB, nor does it need another California member. It needs more representation outside the state.

(01-19-2017 11:58 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I don't think the BW Cal States even want Bakersfield. They don't move the needle at all or the conference closer to two bids. I suppose they would bring in a new market though.

Adding three of Bakersfield, NMSU, Grand Canyon and UCSD is the way to go. New money and an intriguing market with GCU, a former member with good basketball and academic clout in NMSU.

The dynamic has changed. There is no more money from adding new teams. Conferences add teams now because they have to.

Even adding Grand Canyon Education, Inc., won't get another conference one more dime from the TV networks and its unlikely they'll get more tournament credit revenue either. Just another slice of the pie to be divided. It does give a conference a presence in Phoenix, which might help with recruiting, but won't help with TV revenue. And that's even before one starts in with the fit problems and reputational hit a conference will take by adding a for profit company as a member.

For NMSU, it does add a 'flagship style' school. And one that can compete in basketball. The problem with NMSU is that they will be an unstable partner in any conference that doesn't provide them a football home.

UCSD would be an interesting pick. They provide a nearby team, in a new market, that would expand recruiting and reach at minimal cost.

(01-19-2017 12:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 11:58 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I don't think the BW Cal States even want Bakersfield. They don't move the needle at all or the conference closer to two bids. I suppose they would bring in a new market though.

Adding three of Bakersfield, NMSU, Grand Canyon and UCSD is the way to go. New money and an intriguing market with GCU, a former member with good basketball and academic clout in NMSU.

The dynamic has changed. There is no more money from adding new teams. Conferences add teams now because they have to.

Even adding Grand Canyon Education, Inc., won't get another conference one more dime from the TV networks and its unlikely they'll get more tournament credit revenue either. Just another slice of the pie to be divided. It does give a conference a presence in Phoenix, which might help with recruiting, but won't help with TV revenue. And that's even before one starts in with the fit problems and reputational hit a conference will take by adding a for profit company as a member.

For NMSU, it does add a 'flagship style' school. And one that can compete in basketball. The problem with NMSU is that they will be an unstable partner in any conference that doesn't provide them a football home.

UCSD would be an interesting pick. They provide a nearby team, in a new market, that would expand recruiting and reach at minimal cost.

UCSD has their negatives too as far as the BW is concerned. Another slice of the pie to be divided, additional in-state competition for recruiting, and the worsening of the geographic imbalance. The BW doesn't need another SoCal member. Not without further additions elsewhere.

With the WAC they do add exposure with Fox Sports and would bring in some dollars there.

(01-14-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  2) UMKC - Is stuck with huge travel costs, in a low end conference, with no rivals, and no nearby teams. If the Summit, MVC, or even Southland wanted them...they'd go.

You seem to forget that UMKC joined the WAC of their own volition, leaving the Summit for the WAC just a few years ago because they thought the WAC was a better brand and welcomed playing schools located in other metro areas.

The University of Denver, of course, did the opposite and left the WAC for the Summit at the same time.

UMKC was probably better served staying in the Summit along with Denver and Omaha, but alas, they wanted to gamble to making it bigger than they could in the Summit.

And come on guys, let's get Alaska-Anchorage into the WAC!

(01-19-2017 01:59 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  2) UMKC - Is stuck with huge travel costs, in a low end conference, with no rivals, and no nearby teams. If the Summit, MVC, or even Southland wanted them...they'd go.

You seem to forget that UMKC joined the WAC of their own volition, leaving the Summit for the WAC just a few years ago because they thought the WAC was a better brand and welcomed playing schools located in other metro areas.

The University of Denver, of course, did the opposite and left the WAC for the Summit at the same time.

UMKC was probably better served staying in the Summit along with Denver and Omaha, but alas, they wanted to gamble to making it bigger than they could in the Summit.

As I recall, the UMKC AD at the time said something along the lines of no one in our market knows who is in either conference but they've at least heard of the WAC.

(01-19-2017 02:27 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:59 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  2) UMKC - Is stuck with huge travel costs, in a low end conference, with no rivals, and no nearby teams. If the Summit, MVC, or even Southland wanted them...they'd go.

You seem to forget that UMKC joined the WAC of their own volition, leaving the Summit for the WAC just a few years ago because they thought the WAC was a better brand and welcomed playing schools located in other metro areas.

The University of Denver, of course, did the opposite and left the WAC for the Summit at the same time.

UMKC was probably better served staying in the Summit along with Denver and Omaha, but alas, they wanted to gamble to making it bigger than they could in the Summit.

As I recall, the UMKC AD at the time said something along the lines of no one in our market knows who is in either conference but they've at least heard of the WAC.

Yep, sounds almost exactly spot on to me.