TCU prevails, 5-3, over the Red Raiders.

(06-19-2016 05:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  I'll keep harping on the calling of balls and strikes. In the B9, a ball a foot outside is called a strike and then two pitches well within the strike zone box are called balls. I realize it didn't figure in the outcome, but either the ESPN strike zone box is way off or the home plate umps are clueless. I guessing the later.

And Luken Baker is a beast.

The CWS umpires are a continuing embarrassment for college baseball.

(06-19-2016 06:02 PM)Leoguy Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 05:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  I'll keep harping on the calling of balls and strikes. In the B9, a ball a foot outside is called a strike and then two pitches well within the strike zone box are called balls. I realize it didn't figure in the outcome, but either the ESPN strike zone box is way off or the home plate umps are clueless. I guessing the later.

And Luken Baker is a beast.

The CWS umpires are a continuing embarrassment for college baseball.

Until the NCAA makes them improve or does something to hire competent umpires this will continue. I am surprised that to date no coach or AD has begun to call for improvement.

Perhaps they get the umps from the USGA.

I believe Luken Baker went to Oak Ridge HS, which is just across I-45 from The Woodlands. Does anyone know if we recruited him (or if he could've gotten in)?

From what I recall, he was one of those full ride kids that TCU could get in on that mysterious academic scholarship that a few other schools also have been able to utilize much to Rice's chagrin. He was supposed to be a high draft pick and kids like that are going to demand a full ride and nothing less to play college baseball. He sent out an email to all the MLB teams last year to not draft him - the Astros drafted him in the 37th round but he was planning to go to TCU on the full ride all along.

Another cluster by the umpiring crew in the Coastal v UF game. First they miss the fair/foul call, then they take forever to review it and decide where to put the runners, and get that wrong by keeping the runner from 1st at third. No way he doesn't score if they get the call right in the first place.

It costs Coastal a run. 1-0 going to B3.

(06-19-2016 06:22 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 06:02 PM)Leoguy Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 05:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  I'll keep harping on the calling of balls and strikes. In the B9, a ball a foot outside is called a strike and then two pitches well within the strike zone box are called balls. I realize it didn't figure in the outcome, but either the ESPN strike zone box is way off or the home plate umps are clueless. I guessing the later.

And Luken Baker is a beast.

The CWS umpires are a continuing embarrassment for college baseball.

Until the NCAA makes them improve or does something to hire competent umpires this will continue. I am surprised that to date no coach or AD has begun to call for improvement.

Perhaps they get the umps from the USGA.

Now that's funny!

Maybe they'll make the call after the game.

(06-19-2016 08:39 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  Maybe they'll make the call after the game.

The Parliament is on a roll tonight!

Coastal defeats the No. 1 overall seed Florida 2-1 on a complete game masterpiece by their starter, Beckwith.

Very entertaining game.

Bracket two: Losers play Tuesday -- TTU vs FL (rooting for Tech to send Gators home)
Winners -- CC and TCU (I'm rooting for CC all the way).

(06-19-2016 07:08 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  From what I recall, he was one of those full ride kids that TCU could get in on that mysterious academic scholarship that a few other schools also have been able to utilize much to Rice's chagrin. He was supposed to be a high draft pick and kids like that are going to demand a full ride and nothing less to play college baseball. He sent out an email to all the MLB teams last year to not draft him - the Astros drafted him in the 37th round but he was planning to go to TCU on the full ride all along.

Is this rooted in some reportage (that Baker is on a sham 'academic scholarship') or are you just floating it?

TCU does publish the average academic credentials for recipients of the various tiers of academic scholarships: http://www.admissions.tcu.edu/Freshman/S...ancial-Aid

I would imagine the NCAA would sniff around if these criteria were manipulated in a serious way. As it is, I see four possible scenarios, 3 legitimate and 1 very problematic:

1) Baker is on significant baseball scholarship to attend TCU, counting against TCU's baseball scholarship allotment. Given his high talent level, why wouldn't he be offered max support?

2) Baker has strong academic credentials and qualified for TCU merit scholarships. I have never seen anything reported one way or another concerning his academic profile.

3) Baker's family is paying out of pocket for him to attend TCU, perhaps with the help of some baseball or academic scholarship that doesn't cover everything.

4) He was maneuvered into an academic scholarship slot he was otherwise not matched to based on his credentials. Wouldn't the NCAA audit this? In any event, I think that suggesting that this is indeed the scenario is an accusation that should be rooted in some evidence rather than just floated.

If UF cannot win it this year with all of the top-line talent that they have, that will be a real blow to their coach and the program. They had 6 of the first 108 players drafted, including 4 pitchers. Of course, that means they have enough pitching to battle their way out of the losers bracket.

(06-20-2016 10:28 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  Is this rooted in some reportage (that Baker is on a sham 'academic scholarship') or are you just floating it?

TCU does publish the average academic credentials for recipients of the various tiers of academic scholarships: http://www.admissions.tcu.edu/Freshman/S...ancial-Aid

I would imagine the NCAA would sniff around if these criteria were manipulated in a serious way. As it is, I see four possible scenarios, 3 legitimate and 1 very problematic:
...
2) Baker has strong academic credentials and qualified for TCU merit scholarships. I have never seen anything reported one way or another concerning his academic profile.
...

I don't know any details, but 2) would not surprise me. As I understand it, a big challenges Rice currently faces is that the academic credentials that would qualify for an a merit scholarship at many of our athletics competitor (such as Vanderbilt, Tulane, TCU) would only be middle-of-the-pack among the incoming student body at Rice. This is not to say that those other schools are not reasonably selective in their admissions; but it is to say that Rice is astronomically selective.

Some possible ways to change that include:
1) Lobby the NCAA to (a) increase the number of baseball scholarships, or (b) authorize sport-specific academic scholarships that don't count as athletic scholarships. As a practical matter, these are probably the same thing.
2) Reduce the overall academic profile of the Rice student body to more closely match those other schools.
3) Expand Rice's baseball recruiting pool to encompass the very highest-achieving baseball prospects from the entire country -- like, e.g., our music recruiting pool. Obviously, the number of great baseball players nationwide who can qualify for academic merit scholarships at Rice is necessarily greater than the number of such students from our traditional recruiting ground of Texas. Bringing more of those students to Rice would allow us to have more talent without more baseball scholarships. Doing this would require selling Rice as perhaps THE premier academic/athletic destination in the nation for a ballplayer (as the Shepherd School already is for orchestra musicians) -- in other words, making Rice what Stanford was not long ago.

Of these, 3) seems the most likely, but still quite difficult. We have more competitors for that particular niche now than Stanford did then, and it's probably easier to attract such students to (and to sell their parents on) the balmy climate, technological hub, and overall sports success of Palo Alto than to Houston, Texas. But it shouldn't be impossible.

(06-20-2016 11:43 AM)owlsfan Wrote:  If UF cannot win it this year with all of the top-line talent that they have, that will be a real blow to their coach and the program. They had 6 of the first 108 players drafted, including 4 pitchers. Of course, that means they have enough pitching to battle their way out of the losers bracket.

Agreed. Would assume AJ Puk (sixth overall pick) would start for them against Tech, as he only faced one batter in relief on Sunday. I think Florida will battle back to win the next two, but who knows after that.

(06-20-2016 11:56 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(06-20-2016 10:28 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  Is this rooted in some reportage (that Baker is on a sham 'academic scholarship') or are you just floating it?

TCU does publish the average academic credentials for recipients of the various tiers of academic scholarships: http://www.admissions.tcu.edu/Freshman/S...ancial-Aid

I would imagine the NCAA would sniff around if these criteria were manipulated in a serious way. As it is, I see four possible scenarios, 3 legitimate and 1 very problematic:
...
2) Baker has strong academic credentials and qualified for TCU merit scholarships. I have never seen anything reported one way or another concerning his academic profile.
...

I don't know any details, but 2) would not surprise me. As I understand it, a big challenges Rice currently faces is that the academic credentials that would qualify for an a merit scholarship at many of our athletics competitor (such as Vanderbilt, Tulane, TCU) would only be middle-of-the-pack among the incoming student body at Rice. This is not to say that those other schools are not reasonably selective in their admissions; but it is to say that Rice is astronomically selective.

Some possible ways to change that include:
1) Lobby the NCAA to (a) increase the number of baseball scholarships, or (b) authorize sport-specific academic scholarships that don't count as athletic scholarships. As a practical matter, these are probably the same thing.
2) Reduce the overall academic profile of the Rice student body to more closely match those other schools.
3) Expand Rice's baseball recruiting pool to encompass the very highest-achieving baseball prospects from the entire country -- like, e.g., our music recruiting pool. Obviously, the number of great baseball players nationwide who can qualify for academic merit scholarships at Rice is necessarily greater than the number of such students from our traditional recruiting ground of Texas. Bringing more of those students to Rice would allow us to have more talent without more baseball scholarships. Doing this would require selling Rice as perhaps THE premier academic/athletic destination in the nation for a ballplayer (as the Shepherd School already is for orchestra musicians) -- in other words, making Rice what Stanford was not long ago.

Of these, 3) seems the most likely, but still quite difficult. We have more competitors for that particular niche now than Stanford did then, and it's probably easier to attract such students to (and to sell their parents on) the balmy climate, technological hub, and overall sports success of Palo Alto than to Houston, Texas. But it shouldn't be impossible.

Vanderbilt's admissions are the same if not higher than us. In 2015, Their 25th percentile-75th percentile ACT was 32-35 and Rice was also 32-35. Anecdotally, I am a proud Vanderbilt reject but a current Rice student.

The issue is, at least in Vandy's case, is that they offer a bunch of merit scholarships that have little or no established criteria. I believe one of these is for African-Americans. The administration at Rice does not offer these types of scholarships, and therefore academic+athletic aid cannot be bundled.

What Rice CAN, and currently does do, is offer financial aid through the standard framework to athletes. For some players whose family income is low, this can amount to close to a full ride.

(06-20-2016 10:28 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 07:08 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  From what I recall, he was one of those full ride kids that TCU could get in on that mysterious academic scholarship that a few other schools also have been able to utilize much to Rice's chagrin. He was supposed to be a high draft pick and kids like that are going to demand a full ride and nothing less to play college baseball. He sent out an email to all the MLB teams last year to not draft him - the Astros drafted him in the 37th round but he was planning to go to TCU on the full ride all along.

Is this rooted in some reportage (that Baker is on a sham 'academic scholarship') or are you just floating it?

TCU does publish the average academic credentials for recipients of the various tiers of academic scholarships: http://www.admissions.tcu.edu/Freshman/S...ancial-Aid

I would imagine the NCAA would sniff around if these criteria were manipulated in a serious way. As it is, I see four possible scenarios, 3 legitimate and 1 very problematic:

1) Baker is on significant baseball scholarship to attend TCU, counting against TCU's baseball scholarship allotment. Given his high talent level, why wouldn't he be offered max support?

2) Baker has strong academic credentials and qualified for TCU merit scholarships. I have never seen anything reported one way or another concerning his academic profile.

3) Baker's family is paying out of pocket for him to attend TCU, perhaps with the help of some baseball or academic scholarship that doesn't cover everything.

4) He was maneuvered into an academic scholarship slot he was otherwise not matched to based on his credentials. Wouldn't the NCAA audit this? In any event, I think that suggesting that this is indeed the scenario is an accusation that should be rooted in some evidence rather than just floated.

Don't know the answer, and am posting for background, not to hazard a guess.

Over the last 9 months of so, there has been a lot of discussion on this board about other schools using need/merit-based, academic scholarships for athletes, specifically in baseball to significantly increase the amount of money given out to support their baseball team.

It has been openly communicated as a problem at Rice, by the coaching staff, in that evidently the NCAA limits the use of these scholarships for athletic purposes to the extent that the scholarships are also offered to all other enrolling students who meet the merit qualifiers (i.e., not simply a means to exceed athletic scholarship limits). This has been explained to be problematic at Rice where the average student SAT/GPA levels are such that, except for very rare circumstances, our attempts to use this type of aid to supplement our baseball recruiting would require that 90%+ of our student body automatically receive the same amount of aid. (I use 90% as a non-factual number to establish the point of the argument, it might be higher or lower, depending on the recruit).

Larger schools, with differing student body makeups allegedly have a larger pool of baseball players to whom they can offer these scholarships without requiring them to offer matching funding to the rest of the student body.

It's a 'sore topic' to some or most of this board, as it has become, at least as described here, a major recruiting disadvantage to us.

Obviously, this would fall in your category #2, as it is legal (if it applied to this situation or not, which none of us really know).

Wade Townsend, one of our Big 3 from 2003, and a first round pick, had an SAT over 1500 (2-part), IIRC. Under these rules, a whole lot of universities could have offered him academic scholarships to play baseball. Rice may have been able to offer him merit based aid under these rules, but they would also have to offer equal money to all other incoming freshmen who met the same criteria, (and in fact, at that level, may be doing that already).

Townsend would be an outlier compared to most baseball recruits. Let's say a top player had an SAT in the 1300's or low 1400's. There are a lot of schools where the baseball coach could offer merit-based scholarships without triggering problems, but at Rice he would only be eligible for an athletic scholarship.

The lower the threshold for merit based aid, the more "baseball" scholarships the head coach effectively has to work with.

TCU has been mentioned (I am not commenting on veracity of the point one way or the other) as a program that has used merit-based scholarships to win players we were recruiting because we could not offer as much money.

I offer this as background to you, as I know you don't spend as much time on this board as you have in the past.

So the discussion above was not suggesting TCU was doing anything inappropriate or illegal, at least from what my understanding of the issues are. I am unclear as to whether this really applies to the player in question, as noted at the outset.

(06-20-2016 12:12 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(06-20-2016 10:28 AM)TCU2002 Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 07:08 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  From what I recall, he was one of those full ride kids that TCU could get in on that mysterious academic scholarship that a few other schools also have been able to utilize much to Rice's chagrin. He was supposed to be a high draft pick and kids like that are going to demand a full ride and nothing less to play college baseball. He sent out an email to all the MLB teams last year to not draft him - the Astros drafted him in the 37th round but he was planning to go to TCU on the full ride all along.

Is this rooted in some reportage (that Baker is on a sham 'academic scholarship') or are you just floating it?

TCU does publish the average academic credentials for recipients of the various tiers of academic scholarships: http://www.admissions.tcu.edu/Freshman/S...ancial-Aid

I would imagine the NCAA would sniff around if these criteria were manipulated in a serious way. As it is, I see four possible scenarios, 3 legitimate and 1 very problematic:

1) Baker is on significant baseball scholarship to attend TCU, counting against TCU's baseball scholarship allotment. Given his high talent level, why wouldn't he be offered max support?

2) Baker has strong academic credentials and qualified for TCU merit scholarships. I have never seen anything reported one way or another concerning his academic profile.

3) Baker's family is paying out of pocket for him to attend TCU, perhaps with the help of some baseball or academic scholarship that doesn't cover everything.

4) He was maneuvered into an academic scholarship slot he was otherwise not matched to based on his credentials. Wouldn't the NCAA audit this? In any event, I think that suggesting that this is indeed the scenario is an accusation that should be rooted in some evidence rather than just floated.

Don't know the answer, and am posting for background, not to hazard a guess.

Over the last 9 months of so, there has been a lot of discussion on this board about other schools using need/merit-based, academic scholarships for athletes, specifically in baseball to significantly increase the amount of money given out to support their baseball team.

It has been openly communicated as a problem at Rice, by the coaching staff, in that evidently the NCAA limits the use of these scholarships for athletic purposes to the extent that the scholarships are also offered to all other enrolling students who meet the merit qualifiers (i.e., not simply a means to exceed athletic scholarship limits). This has been explained to be problematic at Rice where the average student SAT/GPA levels are such that, except for very rare circumstances, our attempts to use this type of aid to supplement our baseball recruiting would require that 90%+ of our student body automatically receive the same amount of aid. (I use 90% as a non-factual number to establish the point of the argument, it might be higher or lower, depending on the recruit).

Larger schools, with differing student body makeups allegedly have a larger pool of baseball players to whom they can offer these scholarships without requiring them to offer matching funding to the rest of the student body.

It's a 'sore topic' to some or most of this board, as it has become, at least as described here, a major recruiting disadvantage to us.

Obviously, this would fall in your category #2, as it is legal (if it applied to this situation or not, which none of us really know).

Wade Townsend, one of our Big 3 from 2003, and a first round pick, had an SAT over 1500 (2-part), IIRC. Under these rules, a whole lot of universities could have offered him academic scholarships to play baseball. Rice may have been able to offer him merit based aid under these rules, but they would also have to offer equal money to all other incoming freshmen who met the same criteria, (and in fact, at that level, may be doing that already).

Townsend would be an outlier compared to most baseball recruits. Let's say a top player had an SAT in the 1300's or low 1400's. There are a lot of schools where the baseball coach could offer merit-based scholarships without triggering problems, but at Rice he would only be eligible for an athletic scholarship.

The lower the threshold for merit based aid, the more "baseball" scholarships the head coach effectively has to work with.

TCU has been mentioned (I am not commenting on veracity of the point one way or the other) as a program that has used merit-based scholarships to win players we were recruiting because we could not offer as much money.

I offer this as background to you, as I know you don't spend as much time on this board as you have in the past.

So the discussion above was not suggesting TCU was doing anything inappropriate or illegal, at least from what my understanding of the issues are. I am unclear as to whether this really applies to the player in question, as noted at the outset.

Rick and the others put it better than I did. I wasn't trying to suggest he wasn't a smart kid. I was just saying TCU can manipulate the system much better than Rice to get kids pretty much on full rides in baseball where some schools can't.

And the quality job by this year's committee is on display again as UCSB sends Miami packing.

So, the only ACC team in the CWS is the first team eliminated. Bye, bye Canes...