Why is it perceived that if one says "historically this is what we are" or "this is better than we've ever been historically" that they are saying "I think this is as good as we'll ever be and I'm fine with that"?


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(03-27-2014 11:26 AM)Briskbas Wrote:  If I was Joe, and I took as much crap from the fans as he did, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed a lot of my career here either. And potential recruits notice that stuff. Just sayin.

It's pretty sad the way he's been treated by certain posters on here. It's one thing to be overly critical of a coach who is paid to do a job, but to bash 21-22 year old players is a little over the top IMO. Ditto for the rest of the players.

(03-27-2014 01:30 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 07:29 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

You're a rebounder. I'm a donator. I give a rats ass what we once did or didn't did! We're a top twenty program now and have been for quite some time. We can stay there if we want to. It's up to all of us. Never lower the bar. Never. You never stop building your program to be the best it can be unless you don't care. Let me tell ya, if you don't want it, there will be somebody right behind you ready to take your place.

I'm a donor, alumni, alumni association member, season basketball and football holder. I don't believe in lowering the bar. I know who we are as a University and as an athletic program. It's called reality.

Can't see the forest for the trees. I'm old enough to remember when Kansas and Duke sucked. Back when I was younger it was Indiana, Kentucky and UCLA.

What was Michigan State before Izzo. What was Duke before Coach K? What was Indiana after Bobby Knight.

(03-27-2014 08:08 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  NCAA tourney success should be somewhat a linear function of your recruiting class.

It's not like josh only had 2 star players to work with.

It'll be interesting to see a study of coaches success relative to the class ranking for the teams who were ranked in the top 25 of that years recruiting class...

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

In this conference we should be in the NCAA every year.

We should be one of those programs who have been to the NCAA 10-15 years in a row, and other than the year Josh took over and had to reload we are on that pattern.

We should make the Sweet Sixteen at least every other year with a deep run every four or five years. Better seeds will help that happen.

It is amazing how much one game, that game that gets you to the Sweet Sixteen, matters to your program.

(03-28-2014 09:19 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(03-27-2014 08:08 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  NCAA tourney success should be somewhat a linear function of your recruiting class.

It's not like josh only had 2 star players to work with.

It'll be interesting to see a study of coaches success relative to the class ranking for the teams who were ranked in the top 25 of that years recruiting class...

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

If we had taken care of business during the regular season we might still be in this thing.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

In this conference we should be in the NCAA every year.

We should be one of those programs who have been to the NCAA 10-15 years in a row, and other than the year Josh took over and had to reload we are on that pattern.

We should make the Sweet Sixteen at least every other year with a deep run every four or five years. Better seeds will help that happen.

It is amazing how much one game, that game that gets you to the Sweet Sixteen, matters to your program.

it's also amazing how, if you don't show up mentally and you allow yourself to get embarrasses in a conference tournament game that also happens to be on your home court, you end up have to face a #1 seed to get into the Sweet 16 instead of being in a 5 vs 4 or a 6 vs 3 game.

(03-28-2014 09:16 AM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(03-27-2014 01:30 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 07:29 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

You're a rebounder. I'm a donator. I give a rats ass what we once did or didn't did! We're a top twenty program now and have been for quite some time. We can stay there if we want to. It's up to all of us. Never lower the bar. Never. You never stop building your program to be the best it can be unless you don't care. Let me tell ya, if you don't want it, there will be somebody right behind you ready to take your place.

I'm a donor, alumni, alumni association member, season basketball and football holder. I don't believe in lowering the bar. I know who we are as a University and as an athletic program. It's called reality.

Can't see the forest for the trees. I'm old enough to remember when Kansas and Duke sucked. Back when I was younger it was Indiana, Kentucky and UCLA.

What was Michigan State before Izzo. What was Duke before Coach K? What was Indiana after Bobby Knight.

Before Izzo, Sparty was a National Champion & had been to 2 Final fours. Before Coach K, Duke had been to 4 Final Fours between 63-78 (once every 4 years). Indiana played for a National Title in 2002 (post Bob Knight) and had won 2 titles before Knight ever got there. So yea, I do have pretty good idea of what the forest looks like.

(03-27-2014 01:42 PM)Mickavelli Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

Sweet 16 coaches pay rate 1 million
Elite 8 1.5 million
Final Four (2 million per year)


So you are saying the school can't get anyone for less than 1 million to get this team consistently to the 3rd round (32)?

I guess Coach K has been vastly overpaid the last 3 years. You do realize that Josh has exactly 1 less NCAA tournament win than Coach K since 2012, right?

(03-26-2014 08:26 AM)holysheetman Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

All you have to do is join, it's not expensive. Memphisrebounders.com

I am not a rebounder (although I would like to be) but like yourself, my wife also no longer likes pastner. He needs to either change his philosophy on coaching or hire an assistant that can provide some fundamental defensive coaching.

The way I see it, there are 4 ways this thing can go:

1. Josh all of a sudden figures out how to motivate his players to play good defense and other facets of the game and he goes on to become greatly successful here with regular tourney runs.

2. We miss the tournament or have a terrible year one year and he's fired.

3. Josh accepts another job.

4. We continue to get what we are getting which is very good recruiting and very undisciplined, underachieving teams on the court, but we are just good enough to not be able to make a coaching change.



By far, I would rather #1 happen. But if that doesn't happen starting next year, I would want to see #2 or #3 as quickly as possible. The absolute last scenario I want to see is #4.

(03-29-2014 10:01 AM)bariggins98 Wrote:  I guess Coach K has been vastly overpaid the last 3 years. You do realize that Josh has exactly 1 less NCAA tournament win than Coach K since 2012, right?

You people who compare a guy with 2 tourney wins in 5 years to hall of fame national championship coaches make me want to punch myself in the nuts.

I mean, you do understand that the amount you are paid is usually based on past performance, right?

(03-29-2014 03:18 PM)Bluebeard Wrote:  The way I see it, there are 4 ways this thing can go:

1. Josh all of a sudden figures out how to motivate his players to play good defense and other facets of the game and he goes on to become greatly successful here with regular tourney runs.

2. We miss the tournament or have a terrible year one year and he's fired.

3. Josh accepts another job.

4. We continue to get what we are getting which is very good recruiting and very undisciplined, underachieving teams on the court, but we are just good enough to not be able to make a coaching change.



By far, I would rather #1 happen. But if that doesn't happen starting next year, I would want to see #2 or #3 as quickly as possible. The absolute last scenario I want to see is #4.

I agree with 1 thru 3. I feel like there is not a #4 anymore. In the five years as coach he was able to have #4. I believe he has to make a run in the tourney next season or the powers to be will want to make a change.

I hope you are right Joe1. But like others have said, I think it will be tough to fire a guy who goes to the tourney every year.

But actually, #4 may not be possible for other reasons. If the coaching remains this bad, it's bound to catch up to us at some point. Either by directly causing us to have a terrible season in the near future or indirectly by hurting recruiting....which in turn will cause us to stop making NCAA tourneys. Either scenario would bring us back to #2.

(03-29-2014 03:18 PM)Bluebeard Wrote:  The way I see it, there are 4 ways this thing can go:

1. Josh all of a sudden figures out how to motivate his players to play good defense and other facets of the game and he goes on to become greatly successful here with regular tourney runs.

2. We miss the tournament or have a terrible year one year and he's fired.

3. Josh accepts another job.

4. We continue to get what we are getting which is very good recruiting and very undisciplined, underachieving teams on the court, but we are just good enough to not be able to make a coaching change.



By far, I would rather #1 happen. But if that doesn't happen starting next year, I would want to see #2 or #3 as quickly as possible. The absolute last scenario I want to see is #4.

Agree with wanting 1, 2 or 3 but afraid 4 is what happens.

(03-29-2014 03:34 PM)Bluebeard Wrote:  I hope you are right Joe1. But like others have said, I think it will be tough to fire a guy who goes to the tourney every year.

But actually, #4 may not be possible for other reasons. If the coaching remains this bad, it's bound to catch up to us at some point. Either by directly causing us to have a terrible season in the near future or indirectly by hurting recruiting....which in turn will cause us to stop making NCAA tourneys. Either scenario would bring us back to #2.

I hear you. With Louisville gone, shouldn't we finish no worse than 2nd in both regular season league and conference tournament. Win half the top 25 games and make a run in the tourney sweet 16 or better. Do those things and Josh has done a good job and should remain the coach in my opinion. Now, coming in third in both the regular season and conference tourney and losing the second game of the ncaa tourney or worse losing the first game, and I think it is time for a change.

(03-27-2014 04:06 PM)TigerBCL Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 04:24 PM)TigerKB Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:50 PM)macphil30 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:22 AM)covingtontiger Wrote:  I would be interested in how other Rebounders feel about Coach Pastner after this season has ended.

I think that Josh will be our coach. I wish that he would do better in-game interviews on TV, that he would coach better defense, and that he would learn to make better adjustments during games. When we got down in those blow-out losses, he had no answer to prevent the "avalanche". Two wins in the NCAA in 5 years is a very disappointing result.

I think that Josh will be here. Right now, I would not be upset if somebody hired him away. My wife does not like him any more and would like to see him go.

If you comment in this thread, please note if you are a Rebounder.

I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

That's exactly the point I made in another thread.If you just became a fan in say Calipari's last five years then you probably think that we are more than what we really are. Good post sir

Why not expect it every year? If you don't expect at least a sweet 16 every year how are you to measure growth and consistency in the program?

Expecting a Sweet 16 every year is crazy for any school. Since the tournament expanded to 64 (requiring at least two wins to get to S16), only 15 times have teams made at least 4 in a row.

We can't expect a sweet 16 run if we are seeded 7-10. We must get better seeds. Cal didn't make any runs until we were 1 and 2 seeds.

(03-29-2014 03:53 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(03-27-2014 04:06 PM)TigerBCL Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 04:24 PM)TigerKB Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:50 PM)macphil30 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 03:34 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  I'm a Rebounder. Memphis fans need to be more realistic to what type of program we have, not the one we believe we have. There are a handful of programs where Sweet 16s are annually expected and delivered - UNC, UK, KU, Duke. It is unreasonable to expect for a program like Memphis to reach the Sweet 16 every year. Our track record since 1970: 1970s - 1 Final Four, 1980s - 3 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1990s - 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, 2000s - 2 Elite 8, 1 Final Four, 1 Sweet 16, 2010s - none. Even in our "glory" decades, we failed to make at least the Sweet 16 9, 6, 8, 6 years respectively. Expectation should be to make the tournament 5-6 times a decade, Sweet 16 1-2 times, and a deeper run every 10-15 years.

That's exactly the point I made in another thread.If you just became a fan in say Calipari's last five years then you probably think that we are more than what we really are. Good post sir

Why not expect it every year? If you don't expect at least a sweet 16 every year how are you to measure growth and consistency in the program?

Expecting a Sweet 16 every year is crazy for any school. Since the tournament expanded to 64 (requiring at least two wins to get to S16), only 15 times have teams made at least 4 in a row.

We can't expect a sweet 16 run if we are seeded 7-10. We must get better seeds. Cal didn't make any runs until we were 1 and 2 seeds.

Yep, and that's why it's so important not to choke away more than maybe 1-2 winnable games/year in the regular season. Otherwise you find yourself tipping off against a #1 seed in the round of 32.

As a rebounder and a season ticket holder..my whole thing is LIKE every other organization...as the leader goes....so goes the group...the FIRST person that needs adjustment is the LEADER..if he really looks in the mirror then....IF NOT...everything else is on point...get ride of coach speak and be a straight talker

(03-29-2014 03:20 PM)Bluebeard Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 10:01 AM)bariggins98 Wrote:  I guess Coach K has been vastly overpaid the last 3 years. You do realize that Josh has exactly 1 less NCAA tournament win than Coach K since 2012, right?

You people who compare a guy with 2 tourney wins in 5 years to hall of fame national championship coaches make me want to punch myself in the nuts.

I mean, you do understand that the amount you are paid is usually based on past performance, right?

Believe me, I get that. The point is, there are people on this board who have unbelievably high, unrealistic expectations. Demanding that Josh, with 5 years experience, do things that a hall of fame coach with 3 decades of experience at a Top 5 program, multiple championships, and better players still has trouble doing is silly.