(01-12-2014 04:23 PM)SayWhat? Wrote:  Tigers are winning games and we are not yet running on all eight cylinders. If all four guards start hitting their shots and free throws, look out. Shaq is solid, Nichols is getting his game face on, and Pellom is getting his conditioning back. Put it all together and they are a force capable of playing with any team. I still think we are an Elite 8 team.

Good points!

(01-12-2014 04:29 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:23 PM)SayWhat? Wrote:  Tigers are winning games and we are not yet running on all eight cylinders. If all four guards start hitting their shots and free throws, look out. Shaq is solid, Nichols is getting his game face on, and Pellom is getting his conditioning back. Put it all together and they are a force capable of playing with any team. I still think we are an Elite 8 team.

Good points!

And I forgot to say that Shaq has been hitting his free throws lately. Shot looks like he has been putting in some practice time.

What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Most likely, yes. That is the game of basketball, it's a chess match. When a team is basically guarding your 2 bigs with all 5 of their players, daring you to shoot, you will probably lose if you don't hit your shots. Hit a couple shots and teams will have to get out and guard the perimeter. How else do you loosen up packed paint? Gotta hit your shots, it's sort of idiomatic to the game of basketball.

(01-12-2014 04:05 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 12:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  We may not be as flat out as good as we were in 2007-08, but I do think that this team is better offensively than any other team from 2005 to 09.

better than the 05-06 team with DWash, Carney, Shawne Williams, and CDR?

No.

On KenPom, our adjusted offensive efficiency is 41 right now.

2006-37
2007- 23
2008- 6
2009- 33

Per stats right now, it's not better than any of them. TO my eye, it's not better than any of them. Maybe if we feed Shaq and Austin more it'll go up as they're shooting around 55% or better combined. Can't underestimate having guys who just goes and gets a bucket when we need one (Dwash, Shawne, CDR, Hunt, Rose, Reke)

That's true. As far as an analysis of actual performance to date, we have been uneven, and atrocious shooting the three.

I'm thinking about where this team will be in March. I think we have more options offensively, and we'll see a much higher level of efficiency than we saw, say, in the UCLA elite 8 game. I think we have the inside options to survive the most hostile tournament environments, and enough shooters that we'll have options for breaking zones.

You're absolutely right from an educated, data perspective. I'd call my statement just a hunch, but it's one I think May be true by March.

(01-12-2014 04:05 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 12:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  We may not be as flat out as good as we were in 2007-08, but I do think that this team is better offensively than any other team from 2005 to 09.

better than the 05-06 team with DWash, Carney, Shawne Williams, and CDR?

No.

On KenPom, our adjusted offensive efficiency is 41 right now.

2006-37
2007- 23
2008- 6
2009- 33

Per stats right now, it's not better than any of them. TO my eye, it's not better than any of them. Maybe if we feed Shaq and Austin more it'll go up as they're shooting around 55% or better combined. Can't underestimate having guys who just goes and gets a bucket when we need one (Dwash, Shawne, CDR, Hunt, Rose, Reke)

This team has played a much tougher schedule than the 06-07 team. That is going to effect numbers. The 06 team had two top 50 wins all regular season.

(01-12-2014 02:08 PM)Antonio5fan Wrote:  It all came down to making shots. Tigers made FT's down the stretch against Louisville. Dixon's and CC's 3 threes in a row turn the game in our favor Saturday. We couldn't make shots against Cincy= "L". If Tigers shoot well they can beat anyone in the country.

It really is that simple.

(01-12-2014 02:53 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 02:33 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 01:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 12:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 11:33 AM)transitt Wrote:  Go back to 06-07....blowing a 17 point lead to lose to Ga Tech and shortly afterwards being curb stomped in Knoxville. Last Saturday sucked. It doesn't define Pastner's career.

Against Cincy, he coached 2-17 on mostly wide open 3's and 9-35 from the field in the 2nd half. Against Louisville, he coached the team to shoot over 50% from the field and to make 8-9 of their last free throw attempts. The only mistake he made at the end of the Louisville game was not coaching Joe Jackson to make the free throw that he missed.

You need to get with the program. Pastner learns and unlearns coaching every game.

Give Pastner credit, he was again shown total reliance on the perimeter game is fools gold and he learned from it. Against UC, our frontline combined for only 9 shots, going 3-9. Against UL, they managed 19 shots, going 12-19. Against UC our guards, shot the ball 49 times making but 14; while against UL they shot only 36 times, making a far more efficient 16.

Against Temple, the bigs were 14-21 and the guards were 14-38. The bottom line is we cannot win solely on the back of the self anointed "4 Kings". We win when we play inside out and its Josh's job to ensure the team continues to do so. Anybody can stand around the perimeter and jack shots and most opposing coaches will let a poor shooting team do it.

When the opposing coach lets your guards shoot wide open 3's...YA GOTTA MAKE 'EM. Else it because almost impossible to make an entry pass, much less drive to the basket.

You don't think Pitino didn't try the same thing?
Josh did a much better job of preparing his team in the past two games and it's ok to say he didn't do a very good job against UC. Everybody will pack it in against us, but we still have to get the big guys involved, if we want to consistently win close games.

So you think that in the Cincy game the types of passes to our bigs and their drives to the basket were available? That's ridiculous. JJ, Geron, Dixon and Crawford drove the ball against Louisville as much as they drove against Cincy and didn't have anything blocked. Nichols had 2 shots blocked against Cincy and the bigs shot poorly.

People are amazing. They seem to think that neither Pastner nor the players even thought about getting the ball inside against Cincinnati, as if they went the whole game and it didn't occur to them.

The team didn't play well at all at Louisville and at Temple. In both games they were lucky against inferior opponents. Against Cincy, the team didn't play well AND it shot very poorly.

(01-12-2014 03:25 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 02:53 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 02:33 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 01:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 12:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Against Cincy, he coached 2-17 on mostly wide open 3's and 9-35 from the field in the 2nd half. Against Louisville, he coached the team to shoot over 50% from the field and to make 8-9 of their last free throw attempts. The only mistake he made at the end of the Louisville game was not coaching Joe Jackson to make the free throw that he missed.

You need to get with the program. Pastner learns and unlearns coaching every game.

Give Pastner credit, he was again shown total reliance on the perimeter game is fools gold and he learned from it. Against UC, our frontline combined for only 9 shots, going 3-9. Against UL, they managed 19 shots, going 12-19. Against UC our guards, shot the ball 49 times making but 14; while against UL they shot only 36 times, making a far more efficient 16.

Against Temple, the bigs were 14-21 and the guards were 14-38. The bottom line is we cannot win solely on the back of the self anointed "4 Kings". We win when we play inside out and its Josh's job to ensure the team continues to do so. Anybody can stand around the perimeter and jack shots and most opposing coaches will let a poor shooting team do it.

When the opposing coach lets your guards shoot wide open 3's...YA GOTTA MAKE 'EM. Else it because almost impossible to make an entry pass, much less drive to the basket.

You don't think Pitino didn't try the same thing?
Josh did a much better job of preparing his team in the past two games and it's ok to say he didn't do a very good job against UC. Everybody will pack it in against us, but we still have to get the big guys involved, if we want to consistently win close games.

No, Pitino did not try the same thing. Cincy and Louisville do not have the same approach or game plan. The lack of interior shots in the Cincy game had everything to do with their game plan, and no adjustment would have changed that. When teams pack it in, you have to hit a few shots.

You said the 4 Kings were self-anointed, when did they anoint themselves? I thought that came from the media and message boards. I'm seriously asking, not trying to be an assburger.

When someone uses the term "self anointed 4 kings" there is going to be zero chance that the post will be rational, logical or balanced.

None.

(01-12-2014 05:25 PM)transitt Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:05 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 12:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  We may not be as flat out as good as we were in 2007-08, but I do think that this team is better offensively than any other team from 2005 to 09.

better than the 05-06 team with DWash, Carney, Shawne Williams, and CDR?

No.

On KenPom, our adjusted offensive efficiency is 41 right now.

2006-37
2007- 23
2008- 6
2009- 33

Per stats right now, it's not better than any of them. TO my eye, it's not better than any of them. Maybe if we feed Shaq and Austin more it'll go up as they're shooting around 55% or better combined. Can't underestimate having guys who just goes and gets a bucket when we need one (Dwash, Shawne, CDR, Hunt, Rose, Reke)

This team has played a much tougher schedule than the 06-07 team. That is going to effect numbers. The 06 team had two top 50 wins all regular season.

Plus freshman CDR was a shadow of his sophomore and junior self.

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

(01-12-2014 06:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

(01-12-2014 06:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

That’s my thinking too. If the perimeter shots are not falling there are other options than keep shooting at a high rate. Even if the defense sags there are still open looks inside if you take your time and make the good entry pass at the right time. There are also midrange jumpers or floaters available which are higher percentage shots than the 3.

Keep shooting the 3 and missing them all game, without trying other options is a movie that I’ve seen too many times this year.

(01-12-2014 01:07 AM)transitt Wrote:  This regular season is on track to be on par with the 05-06, 06-07, and 08-09 seasons at the very least. I'm not saying it will result in an Elite Eight appearance but we already have two better wins than the 06-07 team had.

We have quite a few tough conference games yet. I just want to get in, get a decent seed and make Sweet Sixteen. Anything more than that is gravy.

(01-12-2014 09:28 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 01:07 AM)transitt Wrote:  This regular season is on track to be on par with the 05-06, 06-07, and 08-09 seasons at the very least. I'm not saying it will result in an Elite Eight appearance but we already have two better wins than the 06-07 team had.

We have quite a few tough conference games yet. I just want to get in, get a decent seed and make Sweet Sixteen. Anything more than that is gravy.

Makes sense to me.

(01-12-2014 06:58 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

That’s my thinking too. If the perimeter shots are not falling there are other options than keep shooting at a high rate. Even if the defense sags there are still open looks inside if you take your time and make the good entry pass at the right time. There are also midrange jumpers or floaters available which are higher percentage shots than the 3.

Keep shooting the 3 and missing them all game, without trying other options is a movie that I’ve seen to many times this year.

I went over to ESPN.com and rewatched the second half of the UC game, just to make sure I was being fair in my assessment. From roughly the 12:30 mark when we were last tied @ 39 to the 1:24 mark, Memphis had 24 possessions. Of those possessions, 3 were fast break opportunities; and of the remaining 21 possessions, only 3 times did we successfully pass the ball more than twice, and only once did we attempt to post the ball to Goodwin. As a matter of fact, we didn't put together more than 2 "completed" passes in the halfcourt until the 3:30 mark. We simply never attempted to get the ball inside and we did not reverse the ball.

Pastner did a poor job of coaching his team during the second half of that game, but with that being said, he recognized the problem and corrected it.

(01-12-2014 10:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I went over to ESPN.com and rewatched the second half of the UC game, just to make sure I was being fair in my assessment. From roughly the 12:30 mark when we were last tied @ 39 to the 1:24 mark, Memphis had 24 possessions. Of those possessions, 3 were fast break opportunities; and of the remaining 21 possessions, only 3 times did we successfully pass the ball more than twice, and only once did we attempt to post the ball to Goodwin. As a matter of fact, we didn't put together more than 2 "completed" passes in the halfcourt until the 3:30 mark. We simply never attempted to get the ball inside and we did not reverse the ball.

Pastner did a poor job of coaching his team during the second half of that game, but with that being said, he recognized the problem and corrected it.

Great observation. I feel the same way. I didn't think coach made enough changes or corrections in the Cincy game. Actually he may not have made any. The criticism for at least not trying to make adjustments was certainly warranted. I thought he did a much better job in that regard in Louisville and at Temple. Obviously, coaches have off nights too. All of them do.

(01-12-2014 06:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

That isn't what happened at all. We beat Temple because they are a horrible basketball team. We beat Louisville because they have a horrible frontline. Louisville helped us by having their guards play our guards tightly. That allowed us to get the ball inside. Shaq and Nichols had a dozen looks against Louisville that weren't available against Cincy.

Again, the idea that Pastner and his staff didn't want to get the ball inside against Cincy, and that the players totally didn't feel like getting the ball inside, is ridiculous.

(01-12-2014 10:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:58 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 06:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

That’s my thinking too. If the perimeter shots are not falling there are other options than keep shooting at a high rate. Even if the defense sags there are still open looks inside if you take your time and make the good entry pass at the right time. There are also midrange jumpers or floaters available which are higher percentage shots than the 3.

Keep shooting the 3 and missing them all game, without trying other options is a movie that I’ve seen to many times this year.

I went over to ESPN.com and rewatched the second half of the UC game, just to make sure I was being fair in my assessment. From roughly the 12:30 mark when we were last tied @ 39 to the 1:24 mark, Memphis had 24 possessions. Of those possessions, 3 were fast break opportunities; and of the remaining 21 possessions, only 3 times did we successfully pass the ball more than twice, and only once did we attempt to post the ball to Goodwin. As a matter of fact, we didn't put together more than 2 "completed" passes in the halfcourt until the 3:30 mark. We simply never attempted to get the ball inside and we did not reverse the ball.

Pastner did a poor job of coaching his team during the second half of that game, but with that being said, he recognized the problem and corrected it.

You are lying, plain and simple. If it makes you feel better, then good for you.

(01-12-2014 10:23 PM)DicksHatBand Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 10:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I went over to ESPN.com and rewatched the second half of the UC game, just to make sure I was being fair in my assessment. From roughly the 12:30 mark when we were last tied @ 39 to the 1:24 mark, Memphis had 24 possessions. Of those possessions, 3 were fast break opportunities; and of the remaining 21 possessions, only 3 times did we successfully pass the ball more than twice, and only once did we attempt to post the ball to Goodwin. As a matter of fact, we didn't put together more than 2 "completed" passes in the halfcourt until the 3:30 mark. We simply never attempted to get the ball inside and we did not reverse the ball.

Pastner did a poor job of coaching his team during the second half of that game, but with that being said, he recognized the problem and corrected it.

Great observation. I feel the same way. I didn't think coach made enough changes or corrections in the Cincy game. Actually he may not have made any. The criticism for at least not trying to make adjustments was certainly warranted. I thought he did a much better job in that regard in Louisville and at Temple. Obviously, coaches have off nights too. All of them do.

Yes he made a lot of terrific adjustments to barely beat a ****** Temple team. Out of the 3 games everyone is talking about, the Temple game was the least well coached one of the bunch, by a country mile.