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For all the criticisms and second guessing...
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idroot4russia Offline
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Post: #61
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
01-13-2014 08:46 AM
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thagr82008 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-12-2014 02:08 PM)Antonio5fan Wrote:  It all came down to making shots. Tigers made FT's down the stretch against Louisville. Dixon's and CC's 3 threes in a row turn the game in our favor Saturday. We couldn't make shots against Cincy= "L". If Tigers shoot well they can beat anyone in the country.

We couldn't make shots against Cincy= "L". If Tigers shoot well they can beat anyone in the country.

That's Y playing consistent/disciplined DEFENSE supersedes shots;shot selection and even shot completion %> The key to winning and winning consistently and going deeper in the post-season, Is playing more consistent/disciplined DEFENSE.

WE MUST GET BETTER DEFENSIVELY !

It will make our offensive production seem better as well, even IF statistically that's NOT the case
01-13-2014 08:53 AM
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Joe1 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 02:10 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 12:56 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 12:50 AM)georgiatiger Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 11:54 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 11:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  We have a few weirdo fans; two in particular who like to spout trash about Pastner not making adjustments when we lose and making adjustments when we win. How anyone could believe something so stupid is beyond me. As if Pastner never thinks about making any, his assistants are sitting next to him not making any, and the players on the floor aren't trying to figure out better ways to score the ball.
This from the guy who doesn't attend the games. Rich. I will be at the game Thursday, chances of you attending Zero %. It's too bad actually because you could be the half time entertainment. Your act would be to tell everyone they are stupid and how you are the only true Tiger fan despite not being a season ticket holder and living in Canada.

Stammers "not attending games" is getting old. Big deal. We're worldwide. We have tons of out-of-owners on this board. I'm sure most would love to park there azz in a seat. You need some better smack.

Yeah, that's getting old just like several posters getting called idiots.

Jo(k)e1, this is from you in just the last day...

Low life trash
Loser
Sissy boy
Gutless wonder
B1tch (multiple times)
Jack azz (or a derivative multiple times)
Pr1ck (multiple times)
Dumb azz
Jerk

Then because you are completely oblivious, and it isn't enough that you are calling out posters for calling others idiots; you follow up with this beauty.

Quote:My 21 year old daughter even use to say I hope I don't grow up/turn out like her.

You are the funniest poster here Jo(k)e1. Now go ahead and tell the mods how everyone is being a big bad meanie to you.

Go read through your own posts to several posters since you came back from your ban. Then see if you have the guts to stop pointing the finger at me and others but yet take ownership of your own misdeeds. Highlight and quote the cruel things you post. There are many to choose from.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2014 09:03 AM by Joe1.)
01-13-2014 09:01 AM
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thagr82008 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-12-2014 02:33 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 01:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 12:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 11:33 AM)transitt Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:59 AM)homefry20 Wrote:  It didn't appear that way a week ago

Go back to 06-07....blowing a 17 point lead to lose to Ga Tech and shortly afterwards being curb stomped in Knoxville. Last Saturday sucked. It doesn't define Pastner's career.

Against Cincy, he coached 2-17 on mostly wide open 3's and 9-35 from the field in the 2nd half. Against Louisville, he coached the team to shoot over 50% from the field and to make 8-9 of their last free throw attempts. The only mistake he made at the end of the Louisville game was not coaching Joe Jackson to make the free throw that he missed.

You need to get with the program. Pastner learns and unlearns coaching every game.

Give Pastner credit, he was again shown total reliance on the perimeter game is fools gold and he learned from it. Against UC, our frontline combined for only 9 shots, going 3-9. Against UL, they managed 19 shots, going 12-19. Against UC our guards, shot the ball 49 times making but 14; while against UL they shot only 36 times, making a far more efficient 16.

Against Temple, the bigs were 14-21 and the guards were 14-38. The bottom line is we cannot win solely on the back of the self anointed "4 Kings". We win when we play inside out and its Josh's job to ensure the team continues to do so. Anybody can stand around the perimeter and jack shots and most opposing coaches will let a poor shooting team do it.

When the opposing coach lets your guards shoot wide open 3's...YA GOTTA MAKE 'EM. Else it because almost impossible to make an entry pass, much less drive to the basket.

NOT necessarily, There is always an opportunity to attack a defense by flashing a player at the foul line> WE have a multitude of players that can be effective from there by shooting/making a high=low entry;or forcing the defense to collapse there and kicking out; or even pump-faking & going around a slower less agile player....If CC isnt hitting from three. he has shown he can be effective here as well....There are a multitude of options, NOT just jacking from three
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2014 09:45 AM by thagr82008.)
01-13-2014 09:01 AM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #65
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
Our guards have got to make threes to keep opposing defenses honest. If you're given an open look from three because the defense is sagging into the lane, you can't drive into the teeth of the defense and expect a high percentage shot. You can force an entry pass in to the post if the passing lanes happen to be open, but the postman is essentially doubled as soon as he catches the ball. He can either put up a terrible shot against the double-team or he can kick it out. If he kicks it out, you're left with an open look from three which is what you had to begin with.
01-13-2014 09:14 AM
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thagr82008 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-12-2014 06:58 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 06:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 06:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 04:38 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  What I’m hearing from a lot of fans here is if an opponent sags and clogs the lane we MUST hit our perimeter shots. Hit our perimeter shots or what, lose?

Of course.

every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

That’s my thinking too. If the perimeter shots are not falling there are other options than keep shooting at a high rate. Even if the defense sags there are still open looks inside if you take your time and make the good entry pass at the right time. There are also midrange jumpers or floaters available which are higher percentage shots than the 3.

Keep shooting the 3 and missing them all game, without trying other options is a movie that I’ve seen to many times this year.
every team we play will sag and hope we panic and play exactly like we did against UC. if we do, then we will lose. On the other hand, if we play like we did against UL and Temple, then we'll greatly increase our odds of winning.

again, our guards shot poorly in Philadelphia and Louisville, but simply did a better job of patiently distributing the ball.

+5 Exactly guys> This is spot-on....There are many other options available to us...Especially a team like ours with senior leadership from the guard position(4 senior guards @ that) Because WE are the ONLY team in the country with this level of experience from our backcourt>WE should also be One of THE MOST disciplined teams in the country as well... Which will translate to more wins regardless of the rate or level of success from three.....As WE show more patience in working the ball around and keeping the defense off-balance> Teams have less of a chance of getting out in transition against us, as our half-court defense is pretty good...Also WE get more offensive rebounds, as OUR BIGS are in better position and they are also anticipating shots....

Don't underestimate the importance of this as it has been apparent in the most recent games....Our bigs are more active on the offensive glass, as our guards have been jacking up less shots with our post-players out of position..
01-13-2014 09:16 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #67
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:01 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 02:10 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 12:56 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 12:50 AM)georgiatiger Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 11:54 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  This from the guy who doesn't attend the games. Rich. I will be at the game Thursday, chances of you attending Zero %. It's too bad actually because you could be the half time entertainment. Your act would be to tell everyone they are stupid and how you are the only true Tiger fan despite not being a season ticket holder and living in Canada.

Stammers "not attending games" is getting old. Big deal. We're worldwide. We have tons of out-of-owners on this board. I'm sure most would love to park there azz in a seat. You need some better smack.

Yeah, that's getting old just like several posters getting called idiots.

Jo(k)e1, this is from you in just the last day...

Low life trash
Loser
Sissy boy
Gutless wonder
B1tch (multiple times)
Jack azz (or a derivative multiple times)
Pr1ck (multiple times)
Dumb azz
Jerk

Then because you are completely oblivious, and it isn't enough that you are calling out posters for calling others idiots; you follow up with this beauty.

Quote:My 21 year old daughter even use to say I hope I don't grow up/turn out like her.

You are the funniest poster here Jo(k)e1. Now go ahead and tell the mods how everyone is being a big bad meanie to you.

Go read through your own posts to several posters since you came back from your ban. Then see if you have the guts to stop pointing the finger at me and others but yet take ownership of your own misdeeds. Highlight and quote the cruel things you post. There are many to choose from.

Jo(k)e1, you point the finger on a daily basis There are few things easier than pointing out what a hypocrite you are. It doesn't take guts at all.

Quote: Highlight and quote the cruel things you post.

You aren't smart enough to do it. Get your little kid or your daughter to do it.

Low life trash
Loser
Sissy boy
Gutless wonder
B1tch (multiple times)
Jack azz (or a derivative multiple times)
Pr1ck (multiple times)
Dumb azz
Jerk

I hope your family is proud of you.
01-13-2014 09:20 AM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #68
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
We shot 37% against Louisville. (4 of 11)

We shot 28% against Temple. (5 of 18)



We shot a measly 12% vs. Cincy. (2 of 17). That won't cut it vs. top 50 teams.
01-13-2014 09:21 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #69
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:14 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Our guards have got to make threes to keep opposing defenses honest. If you're given an open look from three because the defense is sagging into the lane, you can't drive into the teeth of the defense and expect a high percentage shot. You can force an entry pass in to the post if the passing lanes happen to be open, but the postman is essentially doubled as soon as he catches the ball. He can either put up a terrible shot against the double-team or he can kick it out. If he kicks it out, you're left with an open look from three which is what you had to begin with.

There has been so much talk about the Cincy game, that I went back and watched it a few times to make sure I'm being accurate. My honest opinion is that we hit shots that were way more difficult in the Louisville game.

I have used this comparison a couple of times, and it is very fitting. Cincinnati was playing all of our guards as if they were Andre Allen. They had no respect whatsoever for our outside shooting. If I was coaching against us; unless I was confident that I could beat us straight up (Louisville, UConn, Oklahoma State, Florida), I would play us like Cincy did every time.
01-13-2014 09:28 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #70
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:21 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  We shot 37% against Louisville. (4 of 11)

We shot 28% against Temple. (5 of 18)



We shot a measly 12% vs. Cincy. (2 of 17). That won't cut it vs. top 50 teams.

Conclusion 1:
The Cincy game was a breakdown on all fronts, from the entire coaching staff to the players. Best to learn from it and move on.

Conclusion 2:
Pastner didn't make any adjustments and can't coach.

I know which one makes sense to me.
01-13-2014 09:31 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #71
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-12-2014 01:43 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 01:26 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 01:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 12:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 11:33 AM)transitt Wrote:  Go back to 06-07....blowing a 17 point lead to lose to Ga Tech and shortly afterwards being curb stomped in Knoxville. Last Saturday sucked. It doesn't define Pastner's career.

Against Cincy, he coached 2-17 on mostly wide open 3's and 9-35 from the field in the 2nd half. Against Louisville, he coached the team to shoot over 50% from the field and to make 8-9 of their last free throw attempts. The only mistake he made at the end of the Louisville game was not coaching Joe Jackson to make the free throw that he missed.

You need to get with the program. Pastner learns and unlearns coaching every game.

Give Pastner credit, he was again shown total reliance on the perimeter game is fools gold and he learned from it. Against UC, our frontline combined for only 9 shots, going 3-9. Against UL, they managed 19 shots, going 12-19. Against UC our guards, shot the ball 49 times making but 14; while against UL they shot only 36 times, making a far more efficient 16.

Against Temple, the bigs were 14-21 and the guards were 14-38. The bottom line is we cannot win solely on the back of the self anointed "4 Kings". We win when we play inside out and its Josh's job to ensure the team continues to do so. Anybody can stand around the perimeter and jack shots and most coaches will let a poor shooting team do it.

Everyone was bad against Cincy including the coaching; but I think that we only played an average game against Louisville and a very below average game against Temple.

We made a lot of really tough shots against Louisville. I thought that we had much easier shots against Cincy. If we shoot almost 40% from 3 against Cincy we win, and if we shoot 12% from 3 against Louisville, we get blown out by 15.

Our guards have not been effective shooting the ball in any of our last three games. Shooting 14-49, 16-36, 14-38 over three consecutive games is flat out awful, but the reason we've won is because of increased production on the block. We have talented big men who can score, but our senior guards have been reluctant to lean on them in 2 of our 3 losses.

Typically, too, guys shoot better off the pass than off the dribble and though we had a lot of open looks against UC many came either off the dribble. When a guy can catch the ball and step into the jumper, the results are usually better.

A lot of ME ball from our guards...
01-13-2014 09:34 AM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #72
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
You can try to make all the adjustments in the world, but you have to hit some open shots if they're served up to you on a silver platter.

I'm not giving Pastner a pass for the Cincy game, because I think he panicked and went waaaaaaay to conservative with the rotation. But our guards usefulness is almost zero if they're not able to convert at a decent clip when shooting an unguarded three.
01-13-2014 09:35 AM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #73
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:34 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  A lot of ME ball from our guards...

Our guards accounted for 20 assists in the Temple game.
01-13-2014 09:37 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #74
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-12-2014 10:47 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:23 PM)DicksHatBand Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I went over to ESPN.com and rewatched the second half of the UC game, just to make sure I was being fair in my assessment. From roughly the 12:30 mark when we were last tied @ 39 to the 1:24 mark, Memphis had 24 possessions. Of those possessions, 3 were fast break opportunities; and of the remaining 21 possessions, only 3 times did we successfully pass the ball more than twice, and only once did we attempt to post the ball to Goodwin. As a matter of fact, we didn't put together more than 2 "completed" passes in the halfcourt until the 3:30 mark. We simply never attempted to get the ball inside and we did not reverse the ball.

Pastner did a poor job of coaching his team during the second half of that game, but with that being said, he recognized the problem and corrected it.

Great observation. I feel the same way. I didn't think coach made enough changes or corrections in the Cincy game. Actually he may not have made any. The criticism for at least not trying to make adjustments was certainly warranted. I thought he did a much better job in that regard in Louisville and at Temple. Obviously, coaches have off nights too. All of them do.

Yes he made a lot of terrific adjustments to barely beat a ****** Temple team. Out of the 3 games everyone is talking about, the Temple game was the least well coached one of the bunch, by a country mile.

Why don't you just go shoot yourself in the head and put yourself out of your obvious misery? Or maybe go find a different team to root for. My gosh you're a miserable excuse for a fan. Objective analysis by Marc Mensa - someone I NEVER agree with - just showed you how wrong you are about the lack of any attempt at an inside game against Cincy and you still argue.
01-13-2014 09:43 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #75
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:37 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 09:34 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  A lot of ME ball from our guards...

Our guards accounted for 20 assists in the Temple game.

I was referring to the Cincy game.
01-13-2014 09:46 AM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #76
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:46 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 09:37 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 09:34 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  A lot of ME ball from our guards...

Our guards accounted for 20 assists in the Temple game.

I was referring to the Cincy game.

Well, I agree there. Dixon especially was trying to make things happen, and it just wasn't clicking. Pastner at that point needs to reign guys in and focus them on exactly how the team is going to come back from the Cincy deficit. Lots of one on one stuff and not a lot of ball movement late in that game.
01-13-2014 09:48 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #77
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 08:53 AM)thagr82008 Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 02:08 PM)Antonio5fan Wrote:  It all came down to making shots. Tigers made FT's down the stretch against Louisville. Dixon's and CC's 3 threes in a row turn the game in our favor Saturday. We couldn't make shots against Cincy= "L". If Tigers shoot well they can beat anyone in the country.

We couldn't make shots against Cincy= "L". If Tigers shoot well they can beat anyone in the country.

That's Y playing consistent/disciplined DEFENSE supersedes shots;shot selection and even shot completion %> The key to winning and winning consistently and going deeper in the post-season, Is playing more consistent/disciplined DEFENSE.

WE MUST GET BETTER DEFENSIVELY !

It will make our offensive production seem better as well, even IF statistically that's NOT the case

Two things are overlooked against Cincy. First, we only scored 26 points in the 1st half. Even before Cincy had Joe Jackson "under control" our offense sucked. Second; our defense wasn't very good in the 2nd half.

Last 7:43 Of Cincy Game:
Down 7 points
3-14 from the field
2-5 from the free throw line (1 front end)
Outscored 17-8 by Cincy to end the game

Last 5:09 Of Louisville Game
Down 6 points
5-6 from the field
8-9 from the free throw line
Outscored Louisville 18-6 to end the game
01-13-2014 09:52 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #78
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:48 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 09:46 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 09:37 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(01-13-2014 09:34 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  A lot of ME ball from our guards...

Our guards accounted for 20 assists in the Temple game.

I was referring to the Cincy game.

Well, I agree there. Dixon especially was trying to make things happen, and it just wasn't clicking. Pastner at that point needs to reign guys in and focus them on exactly how the team is going to come back from the Cincy deficit. Lots of one on one stuff and not a lot of ball movement late in that game.

Yep, and not so much in the two subsequent wins as you correctly pointed out.
01-13-2014 09:53 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #79
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:43 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:47 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:23 PM)DicksHatBand Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 10:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I went over to ESPN.com and rewatched the second half of the UC game, just to make sure I was being fair in my assessment. From roughly the 12:30 mark when we were last tied @ 39 to the 1:24 mark, Memphis had 24 possessions. Of those possessions, 3 were fast break opportunities; and of the remaining 21 possessions, only 3 times did we successfully pass the ball more than twice, and only once did we attempt to post the ball to Goodwin. As a matter of fact, we didn't put together more than 2 "completed" passes in the halfcourt until the 3:30 mark. We simply never attempted to get the ball inside and we did not reverse the ball.

Pastner did a poor job of coaching his team during the second half of that game, but with that being said, he recognized the problem and corrected it.

Great observation. I feel the same way. I didn't think coach made enough changes or corrections in the Cincy game. Actually he may not have made any. The criticism for at least not trying to make adjustments was certainly warranted. I thought he did a much better job in that regard in Louisville and at Temple. Obviously, coaches have off nights too. All of them do.

Yes he made a lot of terrific adjustments to barely beat a ****** Temple team. Out of the 3 games everyone is talking about, the Temple game was the least well coached one of the bunch, by a country mile.

Why don't you just go shoot yourself in the head and put yourself out of your obvious misery? Or maybe go find a different team to root for. My gosh you're a miserable excuse for a fan. Objective analysis by Marc Mensa - someone I NEVER agree with - just showed you how wrong you are about the lack of any attempt at an inside game against Cincy and you still argue.

Good analysis; thanks. MemphisCanes and I just explained it. Pay no attention to us.
01-13-2014 09:54 AM
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TigerBill Offline
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Post: #80
RE: For all the criticisms and second guessing...
(01-13-2014 09:34 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 01:43 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 01:26 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 01:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(01-12-2014 12:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Against Cincy, he coached 2-17 on mostly wide open 3's and 9-35 from the field in the 2nd half. Against Louisville, he coached the team to shoot over 50% from the field and to make 8-9 of their last free throw attempts. The only mistake he made at the end of the Louisville game was not coaching Joe Jackson to make the free throw that he missed.

You need to get with the program. Pastner learns and unlearns coaching every game.

Give Pastner credit, he was again shown total reliance on the perimeter game is fools gold and he learned from it. Against UC, our frontline combined for only 9 shots, going 3-9. Against UL, they managed 19 shots, going 12-19. Against UC our guards, shot the ball 49 times making but 14; while against UL they shot only 36 times, making a far more efficient 16.

Against Temple, the bigs were 14-21 and the guards were 14-38. The bottom line is we cannot win solely on the back of the self anointed "4 Kings". We win when we play inside out and its Josh's job to ensure the team continues to do so. Anybody can stand around the perimeter and jack shots and most coaches will let a poor shooting team do it.

Everyone was bad against Cincy including the coaching; but I think that we only played an average game against Louisville and a very below average game against Temple.

We made a lot of really tough shots against Louisville. I thought that we had much easier shots against Cincy. If we shoot almost 40% from 3 against Cincy we win, and if we shoot 12% from 3 against Louisville, we get blown out by 15.

Our guards have not been effective shooting the ball in any of our last three games. Shooting 14-49, 16-36, 14-38 over three consecutive games is flat out awful, but the reason we've won is because of increased production on the block. We have talented big men who can score, but our senior guards have been reluctant to lean on them in 2 of our 3 losses.

Typically, too, guys shoot better off the pass than off the dribble and though we had a lot of open looks against UC many came either off the dribble. When a guy can catch the ball and step into the jumper, the results are usually better.

A lot of ME ball from our guards...

We'll be fighting that tendency the entire year, I think. Next year could be the exact opposite.
01-13-2014 10:07 AM
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