Hahaha, wow....this is getting out of hand, and too many conclusions are being jumped to. There was never an intent to deceive anyone, or any recruit. They're not being lied to; if anything the statement is just ambiguous. I pulled it from our media guide, but after reading your thoughts on the matter, I can agree that it is pretty lame to include divisional titles as a type of "MAC title". I honestly don't think this calculation will matter to a recruit, but I have changed the video to say 10 MAC Titles, just in case there is any recruit out there that wouldn't pick us because we don't have as many MAC titles as Miami.....

Seriously though, I am continually amazed at the passion of the MAC fan base. This is my first year as a video coordinator, and I guess I'm learning a bit through the school of hard-knocks, but I do appreciate the *polite* critiques as it can only make me better.

(02-21-2013 05:35 PM)axeme Wrote:  Nobody said NO ONE else did it, just that the assumption that EVERYONE does it is a weak justification with no evidence to support it. If you think "fans only hear or see like 1% of what goes on during recruiting" why would you presume to know what does go on at other schools?

Well you're acting like UT is the only school to 'lie' or exaggerate. I presume other schools do it because all the articles I've read where the writers (who are in the know) and recruits talk about some of the recruiting tactics and what goes on. Here are a couple examples...

From 2011...

Quote:ESPN the Magazine has placed a teaser video on the Internet summarizing the key results of their survey of the top fifty high football recruits...when asked as to the percentage of what college recruiters said to them was a lie the average response from these elite athletes was 61.5%!

No, they're not saying that only 61.5% of coaches lie, they are saying that they believe that 61.5% of EVERYTHING they are told from a coach is a lie.

http://blog.gocollege.com/2011/02/23/col...d-details/

From 2008...

Quote:In my opinion, it [lying/not telling the truth] happens all the time. It may not be a flat-out lie like this, but there are always coaches who are not going to be completely honest. While they may not lie during the process, they could be hiding something from you.

And this is from a story about why a QB recruit decommitting from Florida. He was told by Urban Meyer that Tebow was being recruited as a LB.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/66415...c-recruits

(02-21-2013 06:17 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 05:35 PM)axeme Wrote:  Nobody said NO ONE else did it, just that the assumption that EVERYONE does it is a weak justification with no evidence to support it. If you think "fans only hear or see like 1% of what goes on during recruiting" why would you presume to know what does go on at other schools?

Well you're acting like UT is the only school to 'lie' or exaggerate. I presume other schools do it because all the articles I've read where the writers (who are in the know) and recruits talk about some of the recruiting tactics and what goes on. Here are a couple examples...

From 2011...

Quote:ESPN the Magazine has placed a teaser video on the Internet summarizing the key results of their survey of the top fifty high football recruits...when asked as to the percentage of what college recruiters said to them was a lie the average response from these elite athletes was 61.5%!

No, they're not saying that only 61.5% of coaches lie, they are saying that they believe that 61.5% of EVERYTHING they are told from a coach is a lie.

http://blog.gocollege.com/2011/02/23/col...d-details/

From 2008...

Quote:In my opinion, it [lying/not telling the truth] happens all the time. It may not be a flat-out lie like this, but there are always coaches who are not going to be completely honest. While they may not lie during the process, they could be hiding something from you.

And this is from a story about why a QB recruit decommitting from Florida. He was told by Urban Meyer that Tebow was being recruited as a LB.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/66415...c-recruits

Interesting, but I believe there is a very big difference in the recruiting tactics and styles of SEC et. al. and MAC schools. There is little doubt that SEC recruiting is the dirtiest and most corrupt of all. All schools do not recruit the same.

(02-21-2013 08:12 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 07:07 AM)gZusLuvsU15 Wrote:  Hey Guys,

My name is David Sankovich and I'm the Video Coordinator for the Rockets. As a staff member, I prefer not to be involved in forum debates, but after being alerted to the conversation on this board by one of my student workers, I felt the need to respond. The video was made strictly as a recruiting video for recruits. The concept was to encourage them to consider what it would be like to be a Toledo Rocket - to make them a Rocket for a couple of minutes. My purpose in stating that we were the "the winningest program in the MAC" was to draw light upon our recent successes in the MAC. It was not meant to declare that we have the highest total wins, win percentage, etc. but to declare to the recruit that we feel we are currently the premier program in the MAC. I'm sure other teams and their fans would disagree with this perception, but I bet I would disagree with what other teams are telling recruits as well. I'm sure a lively debate could also ensue that we don't have "a tradition unlike any other" in the MAC, but that's what I believe we have at Toledo and what I wanted to communicate to a recruit.

As far as the MAC "titles", this was drawn directly from our school's media guide and business cards. It's fair to debate whether divisional championships and co-championships should be included in this number, but I don't feel like that is important to a recruit. Although it may not be higher than some other teams, we are proud of this number, which is why we display every championship, co-championship, and divisional championship prominently in our stadium, as well as our media guide and business cards. I feel that if there is an issue, it should be made towards those, instead of a recruiting video...

The video was never intended to get as much public recognition as it has. We posted it for recruits on our Vimeo and YouTube page and it soon got picked up by various other sites. Because of the amount of attention it has generated though, I have changed the "winningest" phrase to "one of the winningest" and have updated it on Vimeo - which is the version we use internally. To be honest, I don't think that this changes anything at ALL about the message of the video and how recruits perceive it, but I understand how others may have been upset by it.

Thank you for the kind words and support.

Go Rockets!

P.S. YouTube does not allow me to "update" videos, but I posted a new video and put a link in the original video's description.

OK, thanks for the explanation. I just renamed this thread to Toledo Football - "Fibs and Exaggeration"

.

Miami (OH) Yeah!...Just wanted to congratulate you on this thread. The only actual sport which UT can argue that they have had the best program in the MAC in is women's basketball, and BG might win that arguement. NIU has won the MACC two years in a row and the MACWest 3 years in a row, so in recent years, they are clearly the best. Historically, Miami is clearly the best, Toledo does not have the record to come close to winning either of those arguements. When I first saw that video, I had the same reaction that you did. I like the way this thread has developed, a good sense of humor from pretty much everyone.

I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Well most of the things Toledo says would be true if Miami said them. Heck, even many basketball categories for us are at the top of the MAC, even if we suck now.

(02-21-2013 10:57 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Well most of the things Toledo says would be true if Miami said them. Heck, even many basketball categories for us are at the top of the MAC, even if we suck now.

Why would it be true for Miami to say Toledo is the best team in conference history but not if Toledo says it?

(02-21-2013 11:08 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 10:57 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Well most of the things Toledo says would be true if Miami said them. Heck, even many basketball categories for us are at the top of the MAC, even if we suck now.

Why would it be true for Miami to say Toledo is the best team in conference history but not if Toledo says it?

I'm talking about if Miami were to say that we're the best team in conference history, sorry for my vague wording.

(02-21-2013 11:44 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 11:08 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 10:57 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Well most of the things Toledo says would be true if Miami said them. Heck, even many basketball categories for us are at the top of the MAC, even if we suck now.

Why would it be true for Miami to say Toledo is the best team in conference history but not if Toledo says it?

I'm talking about if Miami were to say that we're the best team in conference history, sorry for my vague wording.

Duh! I know that and so did everyone else- I'm just yanking your chain. After that embarrassing video what else do I have?

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Miami's video can be seen in my signature for all to be seen. Click the link that says "link"

(02-21-2013 11:44 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 11:08 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 10:57 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Well most of the things Toledo says would be true if Miami said them. Heck, even many basketball categories for us are at the top of the MAC, even if we suck now.

Why would it be true for Miami to say Toledo is the best team in conference history but not if Toledo says it?

I'm talking about if Miami were to say that we're the best team in conference history, sorry for my vague wording.

For all recruits and Toledo fans to see that is true and accurate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0ts...&vq=medium


.

(02-21-2013 11:47 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 11:44 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 11:08 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 10:57 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 09:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  I'd love to see, say Miami's, Western Michigan, or bgsuCKS recruiting video. Have THOSE been made to the public so we all can bash them as well?

Let's see 'em!!

Well most of the things Toledo says would be true if Miami said them. Heck, even many basketball categories for us are at the top of the MAC, even if we suck now.

Why would it be true for Miami to say Toledo is the best team in conference history but not if Toledo says it?

I'm talking about if Miami were to say that we're the best team in conference history, sorry for my vague wording.

Duh! I know that and so did everyone else- I'm just yanking your chain. After that embarrassing video what else do I have?

Lol, though your never completely sure of what people mean through words alone. Stupid internet.

All im saying is here is our same video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0ts...&vq=medium

THE DIFFERENCE IS- what we claim in the video is factually true and NOT " well at toledo we can stretch the truth BUT mean something else to recruits (the rest of the MAC wasnt supposed to see this and call our lie so its "OK")

Maybe what toledo meant was: " had we not point-shaved, we MIGHT have won 16 titles and been one of the MAC's most winningest programs"

Thats probably what you meant, BUT you should have said as much!

The MACC game began in 1997. Since '97:

Wins:
UT 121
NIU 103
Miami 102
BGSU 98
WMU 97
OU 95
CMU 85
BSU 77
Akron 67
KSU 65
EMU 48
Buffalo 39* starting '98

Bowl appearances:
UT 7
NIU 7
OU 5
CMU 5
BG 5
WMU 3
Miami 3
BSU 3
Buffalo 1
Akron 1
KSU 1
EMU 0

MACC appearances:
UT 5
NIU 4
Miami 4
OU 3
CMU 3
WMU 2
Buffalo 1
Akron 1
Kent 1
BSU 1
BG 1
EMU 0

MACC titles:
CMU 3
UT 2
NIU 2
Miami 2
Akron 1
Buffalo 1
BSU 0
EMU 0
KSU 0
OU 0
WMU 0
BG 0

Is it me, or does it seem like the only people who are making a big deal out of this are Miami fans (Love and Honor, and Miami (Oh) Yeah !)?

(02-21-2013 04:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Didn't the original video say they WERE the winningest program in the MAC? That was not true, so...

It originally said "program in the MAC." Which is true. "The winningest" came in later and yes, they are the winningest in my book. Who knows, they may have consulted me on that and if so, it is true.

Also, Toledo was the winningest team in the MAC.............................................on November 20th of 2012...............on that day. Oops, did we forget to put that in there?

I think BG fan is just a little salty about being swept by UT in the 3 major sports this year.

And Boca's probably right, BG is probably going to be facing a rebuilding year this season.

(02-22-2013 12:07 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  All im saying is here is our same video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0ts...&vq=medium

THE DIFFERENCE IS- what we claim in the video is factually true and NOT " well at toledo we can stretch the truth BUT mean something else to recruits (the rest of the MAC wasnt supposed to see this and call our lie so its "OK")

I have to say though, as a fan of both teams (some know I'm a Miami grad), I have to admit that I like Toledo's better.

(02-22-2013 12:21 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  The MACC game began in 1997. Since '97:

Wins:
UT 121
NIU 103
Miami 102
BGSU 98
WMU 97
OU 95
CMU 85
BSU 77
Akron 67
KSU 65
EMU 48
Buffalo 39* starting '98
UMass 1** starting '12

Bowl appearances:
UT 7
NIU 7
OU 5
CMU 5
BG 5
WMU 3
Miami 3
BSU 3
Buffalo 1
Akron 1
KSU 1
EMU 0

MACC appearances:
UT 5
NIU 4
Miami 4
OU 3
CMU 3
WMU 2
Buffalo 1
Akron 1
Kent 1
BSU 1
BG 1
EMU 0

MACC titles:
CMU 3
UT 2
NIU 2
Miami 2
Akron 1
Buffalo 1
BSU 0
EMU 0
KSU 0
OU 0
WMU 0
BG 0

It's not bad enough that your athletic department lied, you have to omit (one of) the most winningest program (against Akron last year) in the MAC too?