(07-07-2023 11:26 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump.

And that is where I have a problem with 'most' Republicans. They don't like him for a variety of reasons, I'm sure. There is much to dislike.

But my feeling is that most don't like him because he will bust their "model."

He might actually DO what he says he will do!!! Waaaahhhhh! That would make the rest of us look bad!!!

Somebody said to me, "how can we get rid of Trump?" My answer was if we elect him, he can't ever again run for President. He didn't like my answer. Go figure.

He would just run third term. He's already pretty much said he'd do it. Saying in the 2020 election that he would negotiate another term once he won the 2020.

If republicans said he was constitutionally bound and didn't let him run in the primaries he would raise heck and say the establishment rinos stopped him from accomplishing his goals which would allow a dem win. If they did let him run once it got to the general the dems would stop him on constitutional grounds not allowing him to run in the general which would be a dem win.

Whether someone likes him or not I think we are stuck with Trump for life unless the general republican electorate doesn't go for him.

There were a couple of people in this thread saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis if he won the primary. Only Trump. It's their vote and I'm not going to get all mad about that. But, we have had people on this board for months get very angry saying the choice is either the republican which will probably be Trump or a Democrat that's been the response to almost every time someone has said Trump is not someone who should be president. But, here once again we have the exact opposite. Saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis or any other republican that happened to win. And not a peep from those who said it's either the republican(Trump) or your for the democrat. hypocrisy.

(07-07-2023 12:50 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  There were a couple of people in this thread saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis if he won the primary. Only Trump. It's their vote and I'm not going to get all mad about that. But, we have had people on this board for months get very angry saying the choice is either the republican which will probably be Trump or a Democrat that's been the response to almost every time someone has said Trump is not someone who should be president. But, here once again we have the exact opposite. Saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis or any other republican that happened to win. And not a peep from those who said it's either the republican(Trump) or your for the democrat. hypocrisy.

I ain't voting Dem..

Please name names. I don't recall anyone here saying any such thing. I'm personally voting for whoever the GOP nominee is.

(07-07-2023 12:05 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:26 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump.

And that is where I have a problem with 'most' Republicans. They don't like him for a variety of reasons, I'm sure. There is much to dislike.

But my feeling is that most don't like him because he will bust their "model."

He might actually DO what he says he will do!!! Waaaahhhhh! That would make the rest of us look bad!!!

Somebody said to me, "how can we get rid of Trump?" My answer was if we elect him, he can't ever again run for President. He didn't like my answer. Go figure.

That is Tom level BS.

We don't like him because he's an a-hole who makes it hard to get things done.
The wall SHOULD have been easy. There was bi-partisan support before Trump.
But Trump goes out of his way to create enemies. And he motivates Democrats to come out and vote. Look at what Ronald Reagan got done with a huge Democratic majority in the House and most years with the Dems in control of the Senate. Sure, its not as easy now, but W. got things done as well.

Bi-partisan support on the wall before Trump? What the heck are you smoking? Where is the evidence for that? There was no movement to do anything before Trump regarding a wall.

I'll agree with you that Trump motivates his opponents by his actions. But he also got a lot done with fierce resistance, much of it from his own party. Your standard milquetoast Republican would have collapsed into a puddle if they had to endure the endless hate hurled at Trump. Some clowns still peddle that nonsense that Trump does what he does just for himself. I see a man who loves this country and has some ideas about how to save it from the commies.

If you don't like him, that's your perogative. I don't like him but I will support him. I can see no other Republican that is worth a damn that I would vote for. Same old, same old and many fools will vote for that, then later ***** about things not changing. Trump smashes that model and you don't like his personality so you hate him. This is why the GOP loses.

To be clear - I am not a cult of personality voter, nor an identity politics voter. I do not deify any politician nor LOVE them. They are politicians, not idols or gods. What I value is RESULTS that are positive for this country, something we haven't had much of over the past 30 years.

GTFOH with that Tom level BS.

There was a bill authorizing money for the wall. Duh!

They don't like him because he will bust their "model." Yes. That's Tom level BS.

(07-07-2023 12:45 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:26 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump.

And that is where I have a problem with 'most' Republicans. They don't like him for a variety of reasons, I'm sure. There is much to dislike.

But my feeling is that most don't like him because he will bust their "model."

He might actually DO what he says he will do!!! Waaaahhhhh! That would make the rest of us look bad!!!

Somebody said to me, "how can we get rid of Trump?" My answer was if we elect him, he can't ever again run for President. He didn't like my answer. Go figure.

He would just run third term. He's already pretty much said he'd do it. Saying in the 2020 election that he would negotiate another term once he won the 2020.

If republicans said he was constitutionally bound and didn't let him run in the primaries he would raise heck and say the establishment rinos stopped him from accomplishing his goals which would allow a dem win. If they did let him run once it got to the general the dems would stop him on constitutional grounds not allowing him to run in the general which would be a dem win.

Whether someone likes him or not I think we are stuck with Trump for life unless the general republican electorate doesn't go for him.

Unlike Creepy Joe, Trump will follow the law and the constitution, even if he doesn't want to.

(07-07-2023 12:50 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  There were a couple of people in this thread saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis if he won the primary. Only Trump. It's their vote and I'm not going to get all mad about that. But, we have had people on this board for months get very angry saying the choice is either the republican which will probably be Trump or a Democrat that's been the response to almost every time someone has said Trump is not someone who should be president. But, here once again we have the exact opposite. Saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis or any other republican that happened to win. And not a peep from those who said it's either the republican(Trump) or your for the democrat. hypocrisy.

Well the fact is that some Trump supporters are the people who fit the definition of a RINO. They are Republicans only when they get their way. They are the type of people who gave us Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

(07-07-2023 12:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Please name names. I don't recall anyone here saying any such thing. I'm personally voting for whoever the GOP nominee is.

Page 4 post 1 umbluegray. Saying you wont vote for anyone that's an establishment candidate. Has called DeSantis an establishment candidate. Then talks about the vote being wasted in this line


And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

If I had said the exact same thing about Trump and I wouldn't vote for him and if my vote gets wasted because I didn't vote for Trump and the dems stay in control I'm sure several posters would have crucified me. As I have before on this forum for saying I have a hard time stomaching Trump. Or when others have said that. But, when someone says they are only for Trump and wont vote for any other republican the response is not the same.

I will state that I am personally fine umbluegray saying this. If he truly believes that any of the other current republican candidates are so bad it's no different than a democrat being in power that's ok. I think he's wrong. But, I'm not going to call him dem filth or other attacks I've gotten. He's just doing what he believes is best.

The point is to show the hypocrisy.

(07-07-2023 11:11 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:46 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

I think where I get into arguments on this board is that I read terms like radical leftists, and I who considering myself far further to the left of the Dems on many issues shake my head. I think after posting here long enough we don't actually disagree on where and what the Dem party stands for. I think the Dem party has essentially abandoned all working class/material politics in exchange for an all identity politics platform and being beholden to corporate interests who can whitewash support of identity politics into tricking people on the left that they are the "good corporations". They could not be further from the party of FDR at this point.

Being on the left of issues doesn't make you as leftist. If you are able to rationalize your positions in a debate/discussion without resorting to ad hominem then that is something I enjoy more than reading conservative views that I already agree with.

A leftist seeks to shut down policy discussions by gas lighting or resorting to personal attacks instead of embracing the differences that many americans have. You are definitely not that.

(07-07-2023 01:13 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 12:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Please name names. I don't recall anyone here saying any such thing. I'm personally voting for whoever the GOP nominee is.

Page 4 post 1 umbluegray. Saying you wont vote for anyone that's an establishment candidate. Has called DeSantis an establishment candidate. Then talks about the vote being wasted in this line


And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

If I had said the exact same thing about Trump and I wouldn't vote for him and if my vote gets wasted because I didn't vote for Trump and the dems stay in control I'm sure several posters would have crucified me. As I have before on this forum for saying I have a hard time stomaching Trump. Or when others have said that. But, when someone says they are only for Trump and wont vote for any other republican the response is not the same.

I will state that I am personally fine umbluegray saying this. If he truly believes that any of the other current republican candidates are so bad it's no different than a democrat being in power that's ok. I think he's wrong. But, I'm not going to call him dem filth or other attacks I've gotten. He's just doing what he believes is best.

The point is to show the hypocrisy.

I have voted held my nose and voted Republican plenty of times. I refuse to do it any longer.

And that's not on me, it's on the GOP.

I've laid it out very clearly before in other threads using Romney as an example.

As Governor of Massachusetts he signed the following legislation into law:
1. Abortion for minors without parental knowledge/consent
2. Gay marriage
3. Massachusetts health care reform (aka Romneycare)

He ran against Obama in 2012. Which of those 3 policies above set him apart as a true Conservative? Which of those policies differed from Obama's position?

================

I had to re-read my post to see if I said DeSantis was an establishment candidate because that doesn't sound like me.

I didn't.

In other posts I said I would vote for Trump in the TN Primary, but if DeSantis won I would vote DeSantis in the General.

In fact, I had been fairly excited that DeSantis had earlier said he wouldn't run if Trump was running because I saw the possibility of a Trump-DeSantis ticket in 2024 and DeSantis in 2028 and 2032.

I love what DeSantis has done as FL governor. I just hope he doesn't follow bad advice in this campaign and end up spoiling himself to conservatives. I think he's taking advice from the wrong people. If you take their money, then they own you.


I am tired of voting for RINOs. They have stolen the party and turned it hard toward center left.

Think about Gingrich's Contract with America from 94. Heck, take a look at the first part...

Quote:On the first day of the 104th Congress, the new Republican majority will immediately pass the following major reforms, aimed at restoring the faith and trust of the American people in their government:

FIRST, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress;
SECOND, select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;
THIRD, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;
FOURTH, limit the terms of all committee chairs;
FIFTH, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee;
SIXTH, require committee meetings to be open to the public;
SEVENTH, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;
EIGHTH, guarantee an honest accounting of our Federal Budget by implementing zero base-line budgeting.

Where did that go? Why hasn't the GOP worked their tails off to push this contract?


There are many Republican voters who are OK with voting for the Establishment RINO just because he's a "Republican". To me, that's been the death of the party.

(07-07-2023 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 01:13 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 12:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Please name names. I don't recall anyone here saying any such thing. I'm personally voting for whoever the GOP nominee is.

Page 4 post 1 umbluegray. Saying you wont vote for anyone that's an establishment candidate. Has called DeSantis an establishment candidate. Then talks about the vote being wasted in this line


And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

If I had said the exact same thing about Trump and I wouldn't vote for him and if my vote gets wasted because I didn't vote for Trump and the dems stay in control I'm sure several posters would have crucified me. As I have before on this forum for saying I have a hard time stomaching Trump. Or when others have said that. But, when someone says they are only for Trump and wont vote for any other republican the response is not the same.

I will state that I am personally fine umbluegray saying this. If he truly believes that any of the other current republican candidates are so bad it's no different than a democrat being in power that's ok. I think he's wrong. But, I'm not going to call him dem filth or other attacks I've gotten. He's just doing what he believes is best.

The point is to show the hypocrisy.

I have voted held my nose and voted Republican plenty of times. I refuse to do it any longer.

And that's not on me, it's on the GOP.

I've laid it out very clearly before in other threads using Romney as an example.

As Governor of Massachusetts he signed the following legislation into law:
1. Abortion for minors without parental knowledge/consent
2. Gay marriage
3. Massachusetts health care reform (aka Romneycare)

He ran against Obama in 2012. Which of those 3 policies above set him apart as a true Conservative? Which of those policies differed from Obama's position?

Hey I'm fine with that position. I disagree vehemently that DeSantis is some establishment person. Along with a couple of others in the republican primary as well. Though I certainly agree with you that Romney and McCain were. I did not like voting for either of them. But, I'm not mad you hold that position.

I'm just using your post as an example since I got asked explicitly where someone said they wouldn't vote for anyone but Trump.

The GOP establishment is not much different than the Dems. They may not spearhead the legislation, but not repealing and enabling such behavior makes it worse IMO. Their lying led to a character like Trump to emerge and become to leader of the party. Blame McCain, McConnell, Ryan, Bushes, etc.

(07-07-2023 01:40 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 01:13 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 12:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Please name names. I don't recall anyone here saying any such thing. I'm personally voting for whoever the GOP nominee is.

Page 4 post 1 umbluegray. Saying you wont vote for anyone that's an establishment candidate. Has called DeSantis an establishment candidate. Then talks about the vote being wasted in this line


And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

If I had said the exact same thing about Trump and I wouldn't vote for him and if my vote gets wasted because I didn't vote for Trump and the dems stay in control I'm sure several posters would have crucified me. As I have before on this forum for saying I have a hard time stomaching Trump. Or when others have said that. But, when someone says they are only for Trump and wont vote for any other republican the response is not the same.

I will state that I am personally fine umbluegray saying this. If he truly believes that any of the other current republican candidates are so bad it's no different than a democrat being in power that's ok. I think he's wrong. But, I'm not going to call him dem filth or other attacks I've gotten. He's just doing what he believes is best.

The point is to show the hypocrisy.

I have voted held my nose and voted Republican plenty of times. I refuse to do it any longer.

And that's not on me, it's on the GOP.

I've laid it out very clearly before in other threads using Romney as an example.

As Governor of Massachusetts he signed the following legislation into law:
1. Abortion for minors without parental knowledge/consent
2. Gay marriage
3. Massachusetts health care reform (aka Romneycare)

He ran against Obama in 2012. Which of those 3 policies above set him apart as a true Conservative? Which of those policies differed from Obama's position?

Hey I'm fine with that position. I disagree vehemently that DeSantis is some establishment person. Along with a couple of others in the republican primary as well. Though I certainly agree with you that Romney and McCain were. I did not like voting for either of them. But, I'm not mad you hold that position.

I'm just using your post as an example since I got asked explicitly where someone said they wouldn't vote for anyone but Trump.

Please read my edited post above. I was making the edits when you replied to my initial reply.

(07-07-2023 01:40 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  The GOP establishment is not much different than the Dems. They may not spearhead the legislation, but not repealing and enabling such behavior makes it worse IMO. Their lying led to a character like Trump to emerge and become to leader of the party. Blame McCain, McConnell, Ryan, Bushes, etc.

The people are frustrated. They are tired of just a few names being their option in either party. IMO that added to Bernie on the left. Yes he was an old D.C. name, but new as a Presidential candidate, never mind his politics.

The point I'm making is that legacy candidates are despised by the public whether democrat or republican is of little matter. People want fresh faces and new ideas. Trumps face wasn't fresh, but it was as a candidate and speaking bluntly was an initial turn on.

If the Republicans want traction then crap can the names Romney, Bush, Cheney, and so on. No Clintons, Obamas, Bidens, Pelosi, Schumer, etc. for the Democrats either. Americans want to know why a nation of 330 million plus people can only come up with a few families who can run for president. It's smacks too much of aristocracy, which both the left and right in the U.S. despise.

We need 21st century thinkers in all of our areas of need, Government, Military, Space, and Manufacturing. We need to make our necessary supplies internally and our military parts absolutely at home.

I think most Americans outside of Corporate CEOs would agree on this.

(07-07-2023 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 01:40 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  The GOP establishment is not much different than the Dems. They may not spearhead the legislation, but not repealing and enabling such behavior makes it worse IMO. Their lying led to a character like Trump to emerge and become to leader of the party. Blame McCain, McConnell, Ryan, Bushes, etc.

The people are frustrated. They are tired of just a few names being their option in either party. IMO that added to Bernie on the left. Yes he was an old D.C. name, but new as a Presidential candidate, never mind his politics.

The point I'm making is that legacy candidates are despised by the public whether democrat or republican is of little matter. People want fresh faces and new ideas. Trumps face wasn't fresh, but it was as a candidate and speaking bluntly was an initial turn on.

If the Republicans want traction then crap can the names Romney, Bush, Cheney, and so on. No Clintons, Obamas, Bidens, Pelosi, Schumer, etc. for the Democrats either. Americans want to know why a nation of 330 million plus people can only come up with a few families who can run for president. It's smacks too much of aristocracy, which both the left and right in the U.S. despise.

We need 21st century thinkers in all of our areas of need, Government, Military, Space, and Manufacturing. We need to make our necessary supplies internally and our military parts absolutely at home.

I think most Americans outside of Corporate CEOs would agree on this.

Couldn't agree more with this. This should be the least controversial thing ever, and I suspect most people don't even know that we don't produce most of our military equipment here.

(07-07-2023 12:50 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  There were a couple of people in this thread saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis if he won the primary. Only Trump. It's their vote and I'm not going to get all mad about that. But, we have had people on this board for months get very angry saying the choice is either the republican which will probably be Trump or a Democrat that's been the response to almost every time someone has said Trump is not someone who should be president. But, here once again we have the exact opposite. Saying they wouldn't vote for DeSantis or any other republican that happened to win. And not a peep from those who said it's either the republican(Trump) or your for the democrat. hypocrisy.

I have said I will vote for whomever the GOP nominee is but will absolutely not vote for any democrat. It's just that I wouldn't vote for DeSantis as my first choice in a primary.

JrSEC - great post and I totally agree. Have felt that way (smacks of aristocracy) for awhile and makes me nauseous.

I have voted for a few democrats--none above county level--in my past, but will never vote for another at any level.

Whether I vote libertarian or republican for president in 2024 will depend on 3 things--1) who is the republican, 2) who is the libertarian, and 3) how close Texas shapes up to be.

I'm pretty much in the, "Libertarian if I can, republican if I must," mode from now on.

I will NEVER vote for another Demoncrapped. Even the worst Rep candidate is more in line with my way of thinking/believing. If I voted for a Demon I would be admitting that I think Satan is doing a good job. The Demons are for corruption, illegality, immorality, and in a nutshell destroying the American way of life. They are into socialism so badly that they don't even hide it anymore. Schiff, who in their right mind would want to live like the Cubans, Venezuelans, etc. Only a brainwashed, ignorant fool without scruples.

Even the last place exGovernor would be better than a Demon.

(07-07-2023 10:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 12:40 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-06-2023 11:13 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  This is what the electoral map should look like in 2024 considering the Biden Presidency. There is no cheating the dems could cook up to overcome this. Alas our country has become too caught up in the social issues and as forgotten the only thing that lets us be free to ***** and moan about social issues is economic security.

West Virginia is DEEP red now.

It was once blue because of the coal miners and the unions but those days are long gone. The Dems crushed the coal industry.

Which is why the coal miners vote Republican now.

Yep.

(07-07-2023 01:40 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  The GOP establishment is not much different than the Dems. They may not spearhead the legislation, but not repealing and enabling such behavior makes it worse IMO. Their lying led to a character like Trump to emerge and become to leader of the party. Blame McCain, McConnell, Ryan, Bushes, etc.

You don't think Romney was different than Obama?????