Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

That is a fantastic post. I concur 1,000%.

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

Not sure we could consider Bernie Bros "traditional Democrats"

(07-07-2023 10:48 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Not sure we could consider Bernie Bros "traditional Democrats"

Correct. There are a ton of "traditional repubs" and not very many "traditional dems" left.

(07-07-2023 12:40 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-06-2023 11:13 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  This is what the electoral map should look like in 2024 considering the Biden Presidency. There is no cheating the dems could cook up to overcome this. Alas our country has become too caught up in the social issues and as forgotten the only thing that lets us be free to ***** and moan about social issues is economic security.

West Virginia is DEEP red now.

It was once blue because of the coal miners and the unions but those days are long gone. The Dems crushed the coal industry.

Which is why the coal miners vote Republican now.

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

In general, I agree with this and it tracks with how I feel. I bolded two sentences.

Abortion is and always has been a losing culture war issue for the GOP. No matter how I feel about it personally, in politics, compromise is often necessary. If the GOP when they had control had managed to make it difficult to nearly impossible to get an abortion, the GOP would not taste victory again for a long, long time. Even women who don't like abortion or wouldn't do it themselves will rally around the idea of choice. The better alternative, politically, is to realize that the best approach is to support clear regulations to limit it to early in pregnancy. Move on to more issues and leave abortion as a campaign issue.

I'm not a Republican either, just due to my disgust with their surrender monkey tendencies and do nothing-ism. Years ago, I changed my registration to Independent. It is a distinction without a difference. Why? Because I will not EVER vote for a democrat, so I'm forced to vote for somebody who at least says that they share my values (even when it is all just talk, no action). I just wish there were more candidates who were not RINOS or standard issue establishment Republicans. We need a populist at this time in history in order to start to try and fix what is broken in our political system, which is pretty much everything. Somebody who thinks outside the box.

Don't even get me started on voting libertarian or some independent. There has not been one I could agree with on issues in decades. Besides - the reality is if you do vote that way, you are throwing your vote away, as they have NO chance to win. You might just be helping your enemy win by voting that way. If my vote is to COUNT, it must be for somebody who has a real chance to win.

I'm sick to death of all those who don't think things are broken or not going well. The go along to get along crowd. The 'that's not who we are' crowd who refuse to 1) have principles and; 2) fight for those principles and; 3) be willing to fight as dirty as our enemies; 4) IOW, fight to WIN.

Trump has a core of 30% of the Republicans. He can definitely be beaten if the rest don't split the vote up too much.

Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump. He's got a head start but is definitely beatable.

(07-07-2023 10:53 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:48 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Not sure we could consider Bernie Bros "traditional Democrats"

Correct. There are a ton of "traditional repubs" and not very many "traditional dems" left.

I'd like to see a list of these.

And then I want to ask why they haven't accomplished anything.


Just because they say what we want to hear doesn't mean they're sincere.

(07-07-2023 10:53 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:48 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Not sure we could consider Bernie Bros "traditional Democrats"

Correct. There are a ton of "traditional repubs" and not very many "traditional dems" left.

The thing is all we need are traditional "Americans". But they've been rainbowed out, labeled by race, and instead of equality under the law there are now tiers of victimhood which take precedence. Hell, life makes victims of us all. In the end life kills us all. It's not the job of government to keep us from being disadvantaged with regard to life. It's the job of government to keep us from being victims of crime or a foreign power. Now they let the foreigners in without screening them and finding places for them to plug in. We let them bring poison for our children across the borders, and we give certain ethnicities a pass on crime.

The issue is that there aren't enough Americans who know what Americans are promised in their charter with government to demand that government perform their end of the bargain. Protect the nation and citizens is it, all of it. And they fail at every level!

We are too rapidly producing functional illiterates and historically crippled children at our public education facilities, and we don't hold that fail accountable either.

We've allowed those in Washington to believe that they are obligated to the corporations.

You get what you tolerate. They tell us we are intolerant. How the hell can that be true when we tolerate their failure to our children, to our history, to our culture, and most importantly to our borders and sovereignty! We let illegals in and then give them aid. That means they are stealing your money without your consent and giving it to those who owe the country nothing and have no accountability for conduct, let alone to our laws.

We are the prisoners, folks. They won't let us out of the country with all of our own money or physical assets. But they take our money to let those who criminally enter have a reward for their illegal conduct.

It's time to stop calling Joe Biden and left idiots! They are traitors and crooks. We are the idiots for allowing it to happen! Shame on us!

(07-07-2023 10:46 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

I think where I get into arguments on this board is that I read terms like radical leftists, and I who considering myself far further to the left of the Dems on many issues shake my head. I think after posting here long enough we don't actually disagree on where and what the Dem party stands for. I think the Dem party has essentially abandoned all working class/material politics in exchange for an all identity politics platform and being beholden to corporate interests who can whitewash support of identity politics into tricking people on the left that they are the "good corporations". They could not be further from the party of FDR at this point.

(07-07-2023 11:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:53 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:48 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Not sure we could consider Bernie Bros "traditional Democrats"

Correct. There are a ton of "traditional repubs" and not very many "traditional dems" left.

The thing is all we need are traditional "Americans". But they've been rainbowed out, labeled by race, and instead of equality under the law there are now tiers of victimhood which take precedence. Hell, life makes victims of us all. In the end life kills us all. It's not the job of government to keep us from being disadvantaged with regard to life. It's the job of government to keep us from being victims of crime or a foreign power. Now they let the foreigners in without screening them and finding places for them to plug in. We let them bring poison for our children across the borders, and we give certain ethnicities a pass on crime.

The issue is that there aren't enough Americans who know what Americans are promised in their charter with government to demand that government perform their end of the bargain. Protect the nation and citizens is it, all of it. And they fail at every level!

We are too rapidly producing functional illiterates and historically crippled children at our public education facilities, and we don't hold that fail accountable either.

We've allowed those in Washington to believe that they are obligated to the corporations.

You get what you tolerate. The tell us we are intolerant. How the hell can that be true when we tolerate their failure to our children, to our history, to our culture, and most importantly to our borders and sovereignty! We let illegals in and then give them aid. That means they are stealing your money without your consent and giving it to those who owe the country nothing and have no accountability for conduct, let alone to our laws.

We are the prisoners, folks. They won't let us out of the country with all of our own money or physical assets. But they take our money to let those who criminally enter have a reward for their illegal conduct.

It's time to stop calling Joe Biden and left idiots! They are traitors and crooks. We are the idiots for allowing it to happen! Shame on us!

Of all the causes that get mentioned, this one hits more to the core than most.

(07-07-2023 11:11 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:46 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

I think where I get into arguments on this board is that I read terms like radical leftists, and I who considering myself far further to the left of the Dems on many issues shake my head. I think after posting here long enough we don't actually disagree on where and what the Dem party stands for. I think the Dem party has essentially abandoned all working class/material politics in exchange for an all identity politics platform and being beholden to corporate interests who can whitewash support of identity politics into tricking people on the left that they are the "good corporations". They could not be further from the party of FDR at this point.

This post makes sense.

(07-07-2023 11:11 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:46 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

I think where I get into arguments on this board is that I read terms like radical leftists, and I who considering myself far further to the left of the Dems on many issues shake my head. I think after posting here long enough we don't actually disagree on where and what the Dem party stands for. I think the Dem party has essentially abandoned all working class/material politics in exchange for an all identity politics platform and being beholden to corporate interests who can whitewash support of identity politics into tricking people on the left that they are the "good corporations". They could not be further from the party of FDR at this point.

I'm curious as to your opinion of Robert F. Kennedy Jr?

(07-07-2023 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump.

And that is where I have a problem with 'most' Republicans. They don't like him for a variety of reasons, I'm sure. There is much to dislike.

But my feeling is that most don't like him because he will bust their "model."

He might actually DO what he says he will do!!! Waaaahhhhh! That would make the rest of us look bad!!!

Somebody said to me, "how can we get rid of Trump?" My answer was if we elect him, he can't ever again run for President. He didn't like my answer. Go figure.

(07-07-2023 11:21 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:11 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:46 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

I think where I get into arguments on this board is that I read terms like radical leftists, and I who considering myself far further to the left of the Dems on many issues shake my head. I think after posting here long enough we don't actually disagree on where and what the Dem party stands for. I think the Dem party has essentially abandoned all working class/material politics in exchange for an all identity politics platform and being beholden to corporate interests who can whitewash support of identity politics into tricking people on the left that they are the "good corporations". They could not be further from the party of FDR at this point.

I'm curious as to your opinion of Robert F. Kennedy Jr?

There are places where I certainly don't agree with him, but I'm almost certainly going to vote for him in the primary. I couldn't agree with him more regarding corporate power, regulatory agency capture by corporate interests, the problems with the FDA and the medical establishment, and obviously his stance on Ukraine. He's not perfect, no candidate is, but he's far closer to a version of the Dem party that I'd consider being a part of again.

(07-07-2023 11:26 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump.

And that is where I have a problem with 'most' Republicans. They don't like him for a variety of reasons, I'm sure. There is much to dislike.

But my feeling is that most don't like him because he will bust their "model."

He might actually DO what he says he will do!!! Waaaahhhhh! That would make the rest of us look bad!!!

Somebody said to me, "how can we get rid of Trump?" My answer was if we elect him, he can't ever again run for President. He didn't like my answer. Go figure.

That is Tom level BS.

We don't like him because he's an a-hole who makes it hard to get things done.
The wall SHOULD have been easy. There was bi-partisan support before Trump.
But Trump goes out of his way to create enemies. And he motivates Democrats to come out and vote. Look at what Ronald Reagan got done with a huge Democratic majority in the House and most years with the Dems in control of the Senate. Sure, its not as easy now, but W. got things done as well.

(07-07-2023 11:21 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:11 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:46 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 10:33 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Every Republican running in the Primary knows they can't beat Trump. Several are running TO beat Trump.

I think the strategic approach would've been for Trump to run and pick DeSantis as VP.

Trump DeSantis 2024

Imagine that ticket.

Did DeSantis get greedy? Why did he jump in the race when he previously had indicated he would not run if Trump was running.

Even the state of FL favors Trump in the polls over DeSantis. I assume it's not because they dislike DeSantis.

This is what too many people don't seem to understand today -- millions of conservatives are Republican, but we also realize the GOP has been hijacked by Establishment RINOs.

Given the choice between a RINO or a populist, I'm going populist because I'm at war with the GOP.

For far too long I've had to pull the lever for a Bush, McCain, Romney type because Republicans said I had to vote for them "because they're Republican and you don't want Democrats to win."

I can't reward that attitude. It gives them a continued green light to disregard the public.

I don't care if the populist is Trump or someone else, but I will NOT vote for establishment candidates -- period.

I'm at war for America by proxy by being at war with the GOP. If we don't win back control of the GOP, then America will continue on the path she's on.

We've had GOP candidates win elections long before Trump came along and what victories have we won?

Conservatives have fought against abortion for 50 years. Over that time we've had conservative administrations and legislatures. We've even had GOP control of the White House, Senate and House at the same time.


The FINAL straw for me was the campaign cycle leading up to 2016.

Republican House and Senate candidates campaigned specifically on "Repeal and Replace ObamaCare." I know everyone on this board remembers that distinctly.

They were able to make that promise because they knew they wouldn't be able to follow through. They knew HilLIARy was going to win. They would've passed their legislation knowing she would veto. "Oh well. We tried."

They had no clue Trump would win. All they had to do was produce a bill for him to sign.

They never intended to do away with ObamaCare. They used it as leverage to get our votes. They knew they were lying to us.

No, I'm not a Republican. They made sure of that.

And if my vote gets 'wasted' and allows Democrats to stay in control, what changes?

You could switch very little here and have my feeling towards Dems.

Honestly, I've noticed for a while that traditional Democrats have found themselves in the same boat. The DNC has been taken over by the radical leftists. I guess they could be considered DINOs.

So I get it.

I think where I get into arguments on this board is that I read terms like radical leftists, and I who considering myself far further to the left of the Dems on many issues shake my head. I think after posting here long enough we don't actually disagree on where and what the Dem party stands for. I think the Dem party has essentially abandoned all working class/material politics in exchange for an all identity politics platform and being beholden to corporate interests who can whitewash support of identity politics into tricking people on the left that they are the "good corporations". They could not be further from the party of FDR at this point.

I'm curious as to your opinion of Robert F. Kennedy Jr?

A nobody with a big name.

The ultimate legacy admission

(07-07-2023 11:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:26 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(07-07-2023 11:00 AM)bullet Wrote:  Most Republicans don't particularly like Trump.

And that is where I have a problem with 'most' Republicans. They don't like him for a variety of reasons, I'm sure. There is much to dislike.

But my feeling is that most don't like him because he will bust their "model."

He might actually DO what he says he will do!!! Waaaahhhhh! That would make the rest of us look bad!!!

Somebody said to me, "how can we get rid of Trump?" My answer was if we elect him, he can't ever again run for President. He didn't like my answer. Go figure.

That is Tom level BS.

We don't like him because he's an a-hole who makes it hard to get things done.
The wall SHOULD have been easy. There was bi-partisan support before Trump.
But Trump goes out of his way to create enemies. And he motivates Democrats to come out and vote. Look at what Ronald Reagan got done with a huge Democratic majority in the House and most years with the Dems in control of the Senate. Sure, its not as easy now, but W. got things done as well.

Bi-partisan support on the wall before Trump? What the heck are you smoking? Where is the evidence for that? There was no movement to do anything before Trump regarding a wall.

I'll agree with you that Trump motivates his opponents by his actions. But he also got a lot done with fierce resistance, much of it from his own party. Your standard milquetoast Republican would have collapsed into a puddle if they had to endure the endless hate hurled at Trump. Some clowns still peddle that nonsense that Trump does what he does just for himself. I see a man who loves this country and has some ideas about how to save it from the commies.

If you don't like him, that's your perogative. I don't like him but I will support him. I can see no other Republican that is worth a damn that I would vote for. Same old, same old and many fools will vote for that, then later ***** about things not changing. Trump smashes that model and you don't like his personality so you hate him. This is why the GOP loses.

To be clear - I am not a cult of personality voter, nor an identity politics voter. I do not deify any politician nor LOVE them. They are politicians, not idols or gods. What I value is RESULTS that are positive for this country, something we haven't had much of over the past 30 years.

GTFOH with that Tom level BS.