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Wes Miller Contract Extension
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JUSTGOPLAY Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 12:19 AM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(12-14-2022 11:36 PM)cincy11 Wrote:  The extension seems as simple as hiring an AAC coach with an AAC salary & upping it to a Big 12 salary as they move to the Big 12. I like it.

It’s that simple. Easy decision. It’s been 20 years since we’ve had a coach that is as connected and willing to recruit at this level.

And......if you noticed last night Wes was exhibiting a little of his inner Mick Cronin. He was rippin' his guys when they needed to be ripped. I believe he was treading a bit lightly coming in following Brannan, and all that went down with him. Now that he has the security of his contract, it's time to get this thing going.
 
12-15-2022 07:07 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-14-2022 11:36 PM)cincy11 Wrote:  The extension seems as simple as hiring an AAC coach with an AAC salary & upping it to a Big 12 salary as they move to the Big 12. I like it.

I'm not sure I understand the causal chain.

If USF got tabbed to the B12 would Brian Gregory require a doubling of salary? Lol. That's not how it works.

Moving to the B12 doesn't mean salary needs to be raised to 3 million. B12 Coaches either performed at a high level in their last job to deserve that or performed in the B12 at a high enough level already to earn the commensurate salary that B12 programs can afford to pay.

Wes was hired to the AAC and was paid around what his resume commanded. I get that perhaps he left some $$ on the table to have a higher staff pool. His original deal was a couple hundred thousand less a season than Brannen's.

He hasn't yet established a track record to be paid 3 million a year regardless of what patch is on the uniform.

I have no problem with the extension. I have a problem with doubling his salary for whatever reason just 40 or so games into his tenure when I'll almost assuredly be asked in the near future to contribute to things like a IPF by an athletic department that will still say it's cash strapped.
 
12-15-2022 08:19 AM
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levydl Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 08:19 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(12-14-2022 11:36 PM)cincy11 Wrote:  The extension seems as simple as hiring an AAC coach with an AAC salary & upping it to a Big 12 salary as they move to the Big 12. I like it.

I'm not sure I understand the causal chain.

If USF got tabbed to the B12 would Brian Gregory require a doubling of salary? Lol. That's not how it works.

Moving to the B12 doesn't mean salary needs to be raised to 3 million. B12 Coaches either performed at a high level in their last job to deserve that or performed in the B12 at a high enough level already to earn the commensurate salary that B12 programs can afford to pay.

Wes was hired to the AAC and was paid around what his resume commanded. I get that perhaps he left some $$ on the table to have a higher staff pool. His original deal was a couple hundred thousand less a season than Brannen's.

He hasn't yet established a track record to be paid 3 million a year regardless of what patch is on the uniform.

I have no problem with the extension. I have a problem with doubling his salary for whatever reason just 40 or so games into his tenure when I'll almost assuredly be asked in the near future to contribute to things like a IPF by an athletic department that will still say it's cash strapped.

Yeah, I'd understand some raise to indicate that the school really is behind him for the long term. Maybe the admin is hoping to lock him in so that if the team does have some success in the next few years then the goodwill or early investment might keep Wes from taking a lateral-ish job?
 
12-15-2022 09:58 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
Wes Miller's deal is done, so we're relegated to predicting future history. Making judgments, or predictions, in such cases is nearly impossible in the here and now.

Wes came to UC below the previous coach's salary and certainly less than market value compared with what a P5 school might have initially paid. An SEC bottom feeder could have offered much more, hoping to catch a rising star to build a historically mediocre basketball program into something competitive. So, Wes probably gambled taking less as he saw opportunity with a historically elite program that had fallen from past glory, mostly as a result of a complicated chain of events following Cronin's departure.

If his team starts rolling to respectability in this year's conference race--say finishing third, the raise and extension will seem prescient. Absent that raise and extension, a mid-level Big East program, totally dependent upon men's basketball for revenue, could easily have come in, shown him some love (and those same dollars Cunningham just offered) and UC would be doing yet another coaching search immediately prior to entering the best basketball conference in the land.

It's a calculated risk that senior leadership faces regularly in any business. Until proven incorrect on this one, I'll suggest that Cunningham made a wise decision. Wes, who appears to be a workaholic anyway, will likely redouble his efforts and secure more blue chip talent to face a murderers' row of ranked teams annually in the Big 12.
 
12-15-2022 10:25 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-14-2022 08:50 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  CFP season. During end of that season he was being mentioned in the USC, Okla, ND coaching searches all in the 7-9M range. Cincy responds with raise to 5M. I know I'm in the minority, but absolutely believe this started the process of him leaving. Slap in the face.

Everything I've heard is his agent was working to get him out of UC that whole season, but nobody was willing to wait until January to hire him since he said he wouldn't move before the CFP. He didn't sign the extension offered mid-season because he was trying to keep his options open. CLF ended up being no different than others... wanted to use the program as a stepping stone. The fact he interviewed with Wisconsin a month before the end of the season told me that he's not the man we all thought he was. He failed his players on this current team.
 
12-15-2022 10:29 AM
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bcat1997 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 10:29 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(12-14-2022 08:50 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  CFP season. During end of that season he was being mentioned in the USC, Okla, ND coaching searches all in the 7-9M range. Cincy responds with raise to 5M. I know I'm in the minority, but absolutely believe this started the process of him leaving. Slap in the face.

Everything I've heard is his agent was working to get him out of UC that whole season, but nobody was willing to wait until January to hire him since he said he wouldn't move before the CFP. He didn't sign the extension offered mid-season because he was trying to keep his options open. CLF ended up being no different than others... wanted to use the program as a stepping stone. The fact he interviewed with Wisconsin a month before the end of the season told me that he's not the man we all thought he was. He failed his players on this current team.

He did sign extension in Feb

Luke Fickell, Cincinnati Agree to Contract Extension Worth $5M per Year Through 2028. Helping the Cincinnati Bearcats become the first-ever Group of Five conference team to make the College Football Playoff was quite lucrative for head coach Luke Fickell.

If you don't think getting $5M per year after taking a G5 to CFP and being in the hunt for $7-9M jobs is a slap in face, I don't know what to say. To me, he was gone at this point.
 
12-15-2022 12:57 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
I wish someone would slap my face.

He had $5 million per year with basically no risk, just had to kept doing what he was doing.

Now he gets $7-9 million and has to start over at a whole new place, where he is unlikely ever to crack the top two n his conference, and is more likely to be relieved of his duties at an earlier date.

Either way, he has zero free time available to spend any of that money.
 
12-15-2022 01:28 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 01:28 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I wish someone would slap my face.

He had $5 million per year with basically no risk, just had to kept doing what he was doing.

Now he gets $7-9 million and has to start over at a whole new place, where he is unlikely ever to crack the top two n his conference, and is more likely to be relieved of his duties at an earlier date.

Either way, he has zero free time available to spend any of that money.

He could have gotten 7+ million here if he wanted it. He wanted out last year but wasn't going to leave before the playoff. He sat on the offer the school made. When the places he'd have left for were out he signed an extension that kept the buyout low (this wasn't an accident). If he wanted to stay at UC, UC would have gladly paid him more along with a higher buyout.
 
12-15-2022 01:35 PM
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bcat1997 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 01:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:28 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I wish someone would slap my face.

He had $5 million per year with basically no risk, just had to kept doing what he was doing.

Now he gets $7-9 million and has to start over at a whole new place, where he is unlikely ever to crack the top two n his conference, and is more likely to be relieved of his duties at an earlier date.

Either way, he has zero free time available to spend any of that money.

He could have gotten 7+ million here if he wanted it. He wanted out last year but wasn't going to leave before the playoff. He sat on the offer the school made. When the places he'd have left for were out he signed an extension that kept the buyout low (this wasn't an accident). If he wanted to stay at UC, UC would have gladly paid him more along with a higher buyout.

Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.
 
12-15-2022 10:30 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:28 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I wish someone would slap my face.

He had $5 million per year with basically no risk, just had to kept doing what he was doing.

Now he gets $7-9 million and has to start over at a whole new place, where he is unlikely ever to crack the top two n his conference, and is more likely to be relieved of his duties at an earlier date.

Either way, he has zero free time available to spend any of that money.

He could have gotten 7+ million here if he wanted it. He wanted out last year but wasn't going to leave before the playoff. He sat on the offer the school made. When the places he'd have left for were out he signed an extension that kept the buyout low (this wasn't an accident). If he wanted to stay at UC, UC would have gladly paid him more along with a higher buyout.

Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

If you think money was the reason why he left, then you either haven't paid attention, or just want someone to blame.
 
12-15-2022 11:52 PM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
Yeah, I have a hard time believing that a guy getting paid $5M a year is getting "disrespected".
 
12-16-2022 08:37 AM
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bearcats23 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:28 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I wish someone would slap my face.

He had $5 million per year with basically no risk, just had to kept doing what he was doing.

Now he gets $7-9 million and has to start over at a whole new place, where he is unlikely ever to crack the top two n his conference, and is more likely to be relieved of his duties at an earlier date.

Either way, he has zero free time available to spend any of that money.

He could have gotten 7+ million here if he wanted it. He wanted out last year but wasn't going to leave before the playoff. He sat on the offer the school made. When the places he'd have left for were out he signed an extension that kept the buyout low (this wasn't an accident). If he wanted to stay at UC, UC would have gladly paid him more along with a higher buyout.

Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

It wasn't about money, let it drop. UC was willing to pay up, Fickell wouldn't listen to the counter from UC, he was gone. It was 100% about the perception of coaching at the upper echelon of college football. He's a Big Ten homer, the Big Ten and SEC are the elite, all coaches have an ego and want to be elite.

I remember reading a quote from Jim Tressel a year or so ago when he was talking about Fickell. He said he told Fickell he's doing a great job and he deserves to be coaching at a "big" school. The perception from the Big Ten homers is that UC isn't big time enough, that's why these guys chase the P2 schools. It's all about ego.
 
12-16-2022 08:44 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
Jf UC nrver hires another coach with a Big 10 connection, especially Ohio State, that will be too soon.
 
12-16-2022 10:33 AM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

He got everything he wanted for 6 years straight.
 
12-16-2022 10:40 AM
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levydl Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-16-2022 10:33 AM)chatcat Wrote:  Jf UC nrver hires another coach with a Big 10 connection, especially Ohio State, that will be too soon.

Yes yes, the Fickell hire worked out horribly for UC . . .
 
12-16-2022 10:59 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

"Pay the man."

With what? We're still operating under the AAC media deal. The terms of the Big XII media deal weren't figured out back then. And we DID up his deal...with what we could, at the time, up to north of $5 Million per year. Had Fickell come back after this season and asked for a raise, he would have gotten it--you know he would. More likely than not, had he stayed more than 24 hours after the final game, he would have gotten a raise without asking for it. That's really what the "Wes Deal" indicates. Probably that's why he got out of town so quick: UC never had a chance to "up the deal."

It wasn't about the money. It really wasn't. It was about "The Big Ten." It was about what Luke Fickell needs to feed his ego. Maybe it was about the AD...I don't know. But I feel absolutely confident that it wasn't about the money. With what UC is looking at with the now known Big XII media deal, UC would have matched the Wisconsin money...maybe even exceeded it. But that would have made Fickell look money-grubbing...which, again, means that it wasn't about the money.
 
12-16-2022 11:04 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-16-2022 08:44 AM)bearcats23 Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 01:28 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I wish someone would slap my face.

He had $5 million per year with basically no risk, just had to kept doing what he was doing.

Now he gets $7-9 million and has to start over at a whole new place, where he is unlikely ever to crack the top two n his conference, and is more likely to be relieved of his duties at an earlier date.

Either way, he has zero free time available to spend any of that money.

He could have gotten 7+ million here if he wanted it. He wanted out last year but wasn't going to leave before the playoff. He sat on the offer the school made. When the places he'd have left for were out he signed an extension that kept the buyout low (this wasn't an accident). If he wanted to stay at UC, UC would have gladly paid him more along with a higher buyout.

Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

It wasn't about money, let it drop. UC was willing to pay up, Fickell wouldn't listen to the counter from UC, he was gone. It was 100% about the perception of coaching at the upper echelon of college football. He's a Big Ten homer, the Big Ten and SEC are the elite, all coaches have an ego and want to be elite.

I remember reading a quote from Jim Tressel a year or so ago when he was talking about Fickell. He said he told Fickell he's doing a great job and he deserves to be coaching at a "big" school. The perception from the Big Ten homers is that UC isn't big time enough, that's why these guys chase the P2 schools. It's all about ego.

I think that was John Cooper who said that, but otherwise you are 100% right.
 
12-16-2022 12:41 PM
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bcat1997 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-16-2022 11:04 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

"Pay the man."

With what? We're still operating under the AAC media deal. The terms of the Big XII media deal weren't figured out back then. And we DID up his deal...with what we could, at the time, up to north of $5 Million per year. Had Fickell come back after this season and asked for a raise, he would have gotten it--you know he would. More likely than not, had he stayed more than 24 hours after the final game, he would have gotten a raise without asking for it. That's really what the "Wes Deal" indicates. Probably that's why he got out of town so quick: UC never had a chance to "up the deal."

It wasn't about the money. It really wasn't. It was about "The Big Ten." It was about what Luke Fickell needs to feed his ego. Maybe it was about the AD...I don't know. But I feel absolutely confident that it wasn't about the money. With what UC is looking at with the now known Big XII media deal, UC would have matched the Wisconsin money...maybe even exceeded it. But that would have made Fickell look money-grubbing...which, again, means that it wasn't about the money.

Borrow forward, I'm sure we could've found a way. I guess we will never know, but until proven otherwise, I would say he had one foot out the door when we ponied up a measly $5M when he was staring at $7-9M from other schools. I can tell you when I heard that news I felt he got disrespected. I'm sure he did as well. Just confirmed the "small time" Cincy thing. Kind of like not going after Deion.
 
12-16-2022 02:18 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
(12-16-2022 02:18 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  
(12-16-2022 11:04 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(12-15-2022 10:30 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Could have...why didn't they? Pay the man. Let him know the value you see in him. Let him know that UC is big time and will pay on level of other major programs (BIG12 money was just a couple years away). I said it when it happened that this would cost us and it did. Not saying it was the only issue, but the man got disrespected and I'm sure it stuck with him.

"Pay the man."

With what? We're still operating under the AAC media deal. The terms of the Big XII media deal weren't figured out back then. And we DID up his deal...with what we could, at the time, up to north of $5 Million per year. Had Fickell come back after this season and asked for a raise, he would have gotten it--you know he would. More likely than not, had he stayed more than 24 hours after the final game, he would have gotten a raise without asking for it. That's really what the "Wes Deal" indicates. Probably that's why he got out of town so quick: UC never had a chance to "up the deal."

It wasn't about the money. It really wasn't. It was about "The Big Ten." It was about what Luke Fickell needs to feed his ego. Maybe it was about the AD...I don't know. But I feel absolutely confident that it wasn't about the money. With what UC is looking at with the now known Big XII media deal, UC would have matched the Wisconsin money...maybe even exceeded it. But that would have made Fickell look money-grubbing...which, again, means that it wasn't about the money.

Borrow forward, I'm sure we could've found a way. I guess we will never know, but until proven otherwise, I would say he had one foot out the door when we ponied up a measly $5M when he was staring at $7-9M from other schools. I can tell you when I heard that news I felt he got disrespected. I'm sure he did as well. Just confirmed the "small time" Cincy thing. Kind of like not going after Deion.

You realize these contracts are negotiated right? It's not like most of us who have a meeting with their boss and he tells us he's give us a 4% raise for the year and that is that. Fickell's agent Jimmy Sexton (perhaps the best in the business) calls up John Cunningham and says Fick wants X dollars. If Fick wanted $7-8M after last year and UC only offered $5M he would not have been back this year.
 
12-16-2022 02:26 PM
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The Big O Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Wes Miller Contract Extension
Someone said that Fickell hired his agent in 2020. With what we know now, he's probably had at least the door opened since that time. After 2020 was MSU, which he backed out of at the literal last minute (which makes the story of Amy saying no a little dubious, imo), 2021 he would have left for ND if not for the CFP, and of course this year he was talking to Wisconsin long before the year was over. Love what he did while coaching here, but it's clear he would have been another three/four and done guy like everyone else if not for unique circumstances. A couple million extra per year meant nothing.
 
12-16-2022 02:40 PM
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