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We are no different than any other P5 school now. All that extra money just gets spent away.

(12-14-2022 01:20 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  We are no different than any other P5 school now. All that extra money just gets spent away.

The federal government model. Lol

Well, the appearance of stability is a good recruiting tool.

Now get out and recruit, coach.

I wish my boss would double my salary after I promised to work harder.

(12-14-2022 12:10 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  Well, he’s only in his second year as UC coach. Unless some other program came in and offered him substantially more than he is currently making, this seems like a huge and unjustified stretch. Hard to conceive that his market value is $3 million after coaching low major UNC Greensboro for 10 years. I would think that UC board of trustees would need to approve a salary of that magnitude. What is the basis for that level of compensation? This just seems to be an abdication of the AD and UC Board’s fiduciary responsibilities.

This isn't about meeting a production quota at the widget factory.

If you don't set your coach up, then every other coach in the area and B12 will tell guys we're competing for that Wes Miller won't be at UC in two years or less so why go there.

(12-14-2022 01:20 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  We are no different than any other P5 school now. All that extra money just gets spent away.

As opposed to what? Football and basketball are the revenue drivers in college athletics. Many programs have built sizable debt in the last 20 years. After gaining promotions to the Power 5 most of those programs have faltered significantly because they shifted from the arms race investment strategy that helped them leap to the Power 5. It's easy to appease a major university by finding ways to blunt debt. It's harder to build a competitive football and basketball paradigm that can sustain an Athletic department. Cunningham is boldly spending at a time when more naive AD's have done the opposite.

(12-14-2022 03:14 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  If you don't set your coach up, then every other coach in the area and B12 will tell guys we're competing for that Wes Miller won't be at UC in two years or less so why go there.

If you think about where we are going to be at by this season's end, this makes a lot of sense. It's unlikely we make the dance at this point (have very few opportunities for realistic Q1/Q2 wins. It's possible the team improves but by and large I think we will mostly feel the same about Wes in March as we do now. What do we do then? Extend him after another tournament miss and run out a dead man walking for our first year in the Big 12 or let him cook for another few years with institutional commitment. That may be a difference in someone like Flory Bidunga signing.

Cunningham is also the guy who made the move on Brannen after 2 years - I dont think he's gunshy if we need to fire Wes.

(12-14-2022 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  This just screams results don't matter

OR...it screams the program he walked into was a complete disaster and they are happy with the direction they're trending.

His recruiting has been good. On court performance ******. I'm starting to question Cunningham. Didn't pay Fick when he could of cemented him and now over-pays for coach not performing. 0 for 2.

(12-14-2022 03:37 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  This just screams results don't matter

OR...it screams the program he walked into was a complete disaster and they are happy with the direction they're trending.

His recruiting has been good. On court performance ******. I'm starting to question Cunningham. Didn't pay Fick when he could of cemented him and now over-pays for coach not performing. 0 for 2.

When could he have cemented Fickell?

(12-14-2022 03:37 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  This just screams results don't matter

OR...it screams the program he walked into was a complete disaster and they are happy with the direction they're trending.

His recruiting has been good. On court performance ******. I'm starting to question Cunningham. Didn't pay Fick when he could of cemented him and now over-pays for coach not performing. 0 for 2.

This is nonsense. He had an offer for an extension on Fick's desk all last season. Fick ignored it because he "lived under a rock" during the season (or more likely because he knew he may get an exit at an elite job). When UC made the playoff he stuck around, likely costing him a job he desired. Fick and Cunningham quickly agreed to an extension that included a big pay increase.

Fickell didn't leave because of money. Cunningham was ready to pay what it took. Fickell never got lowballed and could have made more money if that was what he cared about.

Like Mark, I don't believe CLF leaving was ever about money. Unlike others on this page, I truly believe that he didn't want to coach in the BIGXII. His style of play doesn't translate well in the BIGXII, so he jumped for the first decent job in the BIG 10 when it came open. That is why when he approached the AD about leaving, Cunningham was never given the chance to make a counter-offer.

(12-14-2022 04:37 PM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Like Mark, I don't believe CLF leaving was ever about money. Unlike others on this page, I truly believe that he didn't want to coach in the BIGXII. His style of play doesn't translate well in the BIGXII, so he jumped for the first decent job in the BIG 10 when it came open. That is why when he approached the AD about leaving, Cunningham was never given the chance to make a counter-offer.

It's about money, but not his compensation. He lost several guys that were coming here to other programs that had stronger NIL collectives in place. The B10, Notre Dame and the SEC are way ahead of everyone else on this. Name Image and Likeness is being used to induce high school recruits and transfers from the portal.

The irony is that Fickell did not want to use NIL in this manner, but after this past season when some of his recruits were lured elsewhere for big NIL deals he saw that the way the recruiting game is being played has changed.

(12-14-2022 03:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 03:37 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  This just screams results don't matter

OR...it screams the program he walked into was a complete disaster and they are happy with the direction they're trending.

His recruiting has been good. On court performance ******. I'm starting to question Cunningham. Didn't pay Fick when he could of cemented him and now over-pays for coach not performing. 0 for 2.

When could he have cemented Fickell?

Never.

Fick had already bought his non-refundable one way ticket out of Cincinnati a year ago when he missed out on the ND job because of the CFP.

(12-14-2022 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  This just screams results don't matter

OR...it screams the program he walked into was a complete disaster and they are happy with the direction they're trending.

Exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have mixed feelings about the extension.

I admit that I don’t know enough about “coaching” basketball to know if Miller has made much progress that just can’t be seen by the untrained eye because of how bad of of shape the program was in when he arrived.

My untrained eye tells me that they just don’t execute very well, even considering that their talent level may be lacking.
I don’t know if that is entirely due to lacking in talent, lacking in basketball IQ, poorly coached, poorly motivated….

My memory tells me that Huggins and Cronin’s early teams lacked in talent, but there was still a recognizable hard-nosed attitude, a hard working swagger, a hard effort that I could appreciate even when they lost, which I don’t always see with this team or last years team.

Wes will now be making about 700k more than Mick maxed out before he left.

Highest paid UC basketball coach in history. Hopium fueled extension and raise. There is a cart before the horse joke in there somewhere.

(12-14-2022 06:31 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Wes will now be making about 700k more than Mick maxed out before he left.

Highest paid UC basketball coach in history. Hopium fueled extension and raise. There is a cart before the horse joke in there somewhere.

And how much money will UC be taking in from the Big 12 versus when Mick was coaching UC in the AAC?

(12-14-2022 03:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 03:37 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-14-2022 11:47 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  This just screams results don't matter

OR...it screams the program he walked into was a complete disaster and they are happy with the direction they're trending.

His recruiting has been good. On court performance ******. I'm starting to question Cunningham. Didn't pay Fick when he could of cemented him and now over-pays for coach not performing. 0 for 2.

When could he have cemented Fickell?

CFP season. During end of that season he was being mentioned in the USC, Okla, ND coaching searches all in the 7-9M range. Cincy responds with raise to 5M. I know I'm in the minority, but absolutely believe this started the process of him leaving. Slap in the face.

The extension seems as simple as hiring an AAC coach with an AAC salary & upping it to a Big 12 salary as they move to the Big 12. I like it.

(12-14-2022 11:36 PM)cincy11 Wrote:  The extension seems as simple as hiring an AAC coach with an AAC salary & upping it to a Big 12 salary as they move to the Big 12. I like it.

It’s that simple. Easy decision. It’s been 20 years since we’ve had a coach that is as connected and willing to recruit at this level.