(01-16-2023 05:23 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 03:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 03:20 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 03:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:41 PM)unalions Wrote:  Also of note, UNA has a higher average home football attendance than SHSU.

The question down the road is--does that mean that making Sam Houston State FBS was a mistake, or that there should be 8-10 more Sam Houston STates in FBS.

I agree. You may have missed some of my posts but I’m not gung-ho on this UNA to FBS idea. Yet, I’m not making the decisions. “We” (I’m just an alum/fan with some sports writing experience) just got to FCS officially after four long seasons of trying to recruit through a post-season ban.

But, back to your point, I agree. And to think that both UNA and SHSU outdraw Kennesaw State. Yet, Jax State, a school with less enrollment than all three of those (by a big margin to SHSU and huge amount to KSU) almost drew more in avg. home football attendance than all three of those schools combined in 2022.

The most important factor isn't whether you or I think it's a good idea. Or even whether the president of UNA or Oliver Luck thinks it's a good idea. The question is, do Mississippi State and Southern Mississippi think it's a good idea?

Or if a Judge thinks its lawful, or not. I have to imagine that Oliver Luck, a lawyer himself, is playing this out through the court system. This is a well-known and respected man within the college football ranks with a stable of hotshot Texas lawyers at his disposal. Dude sued a multi-billionaire Vince McMahon and the XFL and essentially won (settled). He's already had a chance to thoroughly evaluate the situation and agreed to press on as the Executive Director. More than anything, that's what makes me think this thing has a real chance of success.

Oliver Luck is a quality hire. But after signing on to be President of NFL Europe and commissioner of the XFL 2.0, he isn't exactly the guy who screams "would THIS GUY sign up if it weren't a sure thing."

He'll get paid. He'll do his job. But he's definitely willing to sign on to projects that later fall apart.

(01-16-2023 05:29 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 05:23 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 03:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 03:20 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 03:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  The question down the road is--does that mean that making Sam Houston State FBS was a mistake, or that there should be 8-10 more Sam Houston STates in FBS.

I agree. You may have missed some of my posts but I’m not gung-ho on this UNA to FBS idea. Yet, I’m not making the decisions. “We” (I’m just an alum/fan with some sports writing experience) just got to FCS officially after four long seasons of trying to recruit through a post-season ban.

But, back to your point, I agree. And to think that both UNA and SHSU outdraw Kennesaw State. Yet, Jax State, a school with less enrollment than all three of those (by a big margin to SHSU and huge amount to KSU) almost drew more in avg. home football attendance than all three of those schools combined in 2022.

The most important factor isn't whether you or I think it's a good idea. Or even whether the president of UNA or Oliver Luck thinks it's a good idea. The question is, do Mississippi State and Southern Mississippi think it's a good idea?

Or if a Judge thinks its lawful, or not. I have to imagine that Oliver Luck, a lawyer himself, is playing this out through the court system. This is a well-known and respected man within the college football ranks with a stable of hotshot Texas lawyers at his disposal. Dude sued a multi-billionaire Vince McMahon and the XFL and essentially won (settled). He's already had a chance to thoroughly evaluate the situation and agreed to press on as the Executive Director. More than anything, that's what makes me think this thing has a real chance of success.

Oliver Luck is a quality hire. But after signing on to be President of NFL Europe and commissioner of the XFL 2.0, he isn't exactly the guy who screams "would THIS GUY sign up if it weren't a sure thing."

He'll get paid. He'll do his job. But he's definitely willing to sign on to projects that later fall apart.

No Risk It, No Biscuit! And as you said, he definitely puts in the work.

(01-16-2023 05:23 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Or if a Judge thinks its lawful, or not. I have to imagine that Oliver Luck, a lawyer himself, is playing this out through the court system. This is a well-known and respected man within the college football ranks with a stable of hotshot Texas lawyers at his disposal. Dude sued a multi-billionaire Vince McMahon and the XFL and essentially won (settled). He's already had a chance to thoroughly evaluate the situation and agreed to press on as the Executive Director. More than anything, that's what makes me think this thing has a real chance of success.

If you win the lawsuit, the big schools leave the NCAA. They didn’t do this to grow everyone else’s pie. Then there’s no football money for you.

You still need Mr. Luck just to cut a media deal for this as an FCS conference (never mind FBS), and that’ll be hard enough.

Let me interrupt this online fight by not getting punch to drop a promotional plug, as I could interview WAC-ASun Football executive director Oliver Luck. BTW I should name this conference Western Atlantic Conference for a change LOL!

Here is the link: https://youtu.be/_h_c-T0KZ0U

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 12:44 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 07:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

I would imagine by then there would be a decent chance that 2 of CBU, GCU, or Seattle find their way to the WCC. RGV would probably go to the Southland for FCS football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver. I’m afraid SUU and UTU might be in no man’s land, possibly with the left out school that didn’t get taken by the WCC, if that’s how it worked out. Its possible that UVU would stick with the other Utah schools to try to make something work and form a nice core at least. Strength in numbers. Realistically, it could end up just those 3 and a non-WCC invitee.

Arlington would have no reason to stay and would probably go back to the Southland as well. The WAC could possibly get Augustana and see if Chicago would want another stint. I would hope they would decline this time, even if it meant remaining independent. If they were the difference between the WAC retaining its auto bids or not, Chicago should not join, rather schedule the members remaining who need games by either playing in Chicago or paying CSU to travel. They shouldn’t have to give up all of their guarantee games for WAC schools for free because it would be a financial hit.

That would be about 5 members possibly. I’m not sure if there are 2 D2 schools left to move up. Possibly someone else east of the Rockies that might jump primarily because of the opening available, but I don’t know who it could be.

It’s pretty grim.

Lol. UTA will never revert to the Southland. We left because they are a watered-down conference and every defection left us more isolated with our peers as the DII call-ups were schools with no pulse.

David St? Do you have a second account?

I think UTA would go Indy before Southland. Horizon maybe, but not Southland. UIW and Lamar made a horrible mistake to go back there/not come to the WAC. McNeese as well and probably especially McNeese. They all burned their bridges and sealed their fate to be doomed in the Southland forever.

(01-17-2023 12:18 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 12:44 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 07:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

I would imagine by then there would be a decent chance that 2 of CBU, GCU, or Seattle find their way to the WCC. RGV would probably go to the Southland for FCS football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver. I’m afraid SUU and UTU might be in no man’s land, possibly with the left out school that didn’t get taken by the WCC, if that’s how it worked out. Its possible that UVU would stick with the other Utah schools to try to make something work and form a nice core at least. Strength in numbers. Realistically, it could end up just those 3 and a non-WCC invitee.

Arlington would have no reason to stay and would probably go back to the Southland as well. The WAC could possibly get Augustana and see if Chicago would want another stint. I would hope they would decline this time, even if it meant remaining independent. If they were the difference between the WAC retaining its auto bids or not, Chicago should not join, rather schedule the members remaining who need games by either playing in Chicago or paying CSU to travel. They shouldn’t have to give up all of their guarantee games for WAC schools for free because it would be a financial hit.

That would be about 5 members possibly. I’m not sure if there are 2 D2 schools left to move up. Possibly someone else east of the Rockies that might jump primarily because of the opening available, but I don’t know who it could be.

It’s pretty grim.

Lol. UTA will never revert to the Southland. We left because they are a watered-down conference and every defection left us more isolated with our peers as the DII call-ups were schools with no pulse.

David St? Do you have a second account?

Where you end up doesn’t concern me particularly. But the likeliness of UTA staying in a WAC with no other Texas schools that is longer a league with automatic bids to the NCAA is zero. Perhaps you got hung up on the word Southland and missed the scenario in which it was being presented. Simply replace the word Southland with a league of your liking.

I may be wrong, but I don’t believe Lamar planned on returning to the Southland either.

(01-17-2023 02:58 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 12:18 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 12:44 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 07:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

I would imagine by then there would be a decent chance that 2 of CBU, GCU, or Seattle find their way to the WCC. RGV would probably go to the Southland for FCS football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver. I’m afraid SUU and UTU might be in no man’s land, possibly with the left out school that didn’t get taken by the WCC, if that’s how it worked out. Its possible that UVU would stick with the other Utah schools to try to make something work and form a nice core at least. Strength in numbers. Realistically, it could end up just those 3 and a non-WCC invitee.

Arlington would have no reason to stay and would probably go back to the Southland as well. The WAC could possibly get Augustana and see if Chicago would want another stint. I would hope they would decline this time, even if it meant remaining independent. If they were the difference between the WAC retaining its auto bids or not, Chicago should not join, rather schedule the members remaining who need games by either playing in Chicago or paying CSU to travel. They shouldn’t have to give up all of their guarantee games for WAC schools for free because it would be a financial hit.

That would be about 5 members possibly. I’m not sure if there are 2 D2 schools left to move up. Possibly someone else east of the Rockies that might jump primarily because of the opening available, but I don’t know who it could be.

It’s pretty grim.

Lol. UTA will never revert to the Southland. We left because they are a watered-down conference and every defection left us more isolated with our peers as the DII call-ups were schools with no pulse.

David St? Do you have a second account?

Where you end up doesn’t concern me particularly. But the likeliness of UTA staying in a WAC with no other Texas schools that is longer a league with automatic bids to the NCAA is zero. Perhaps you got hung up on the word Southland and missed the scenario in which it was being presented. Simply replace the word Southland with a league of your liking.

I may be wrong, but I don’t believe Lamar planned on returning to the Southland either.

I dont think we would have a choice. Independence for an unknown basketball school like us would not be a good situation and no one else would want us.

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver.

One of the reasons Denver left the WAC was to get away from UVU. They didn't want to be associated with a school that was a junior college just a few years earlier. I could see Northern Colorado joining the Summit to be a partner for Denver, but not UVU.

I don't believe that their attitude towards UVU has changed. Without football, UVU's options are very, very limited. They have no place to go and would do everything to keep the WAC alive.

(01-17-2023 11:58 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver.

One of the reasons Denver left the WAC was to get away from UVU. They didn't want to be associated with a school that was a junior college just a few years earlier. I could see Northern Colorado joining the Summit to be a partner for Denver, but not UVU.

I don't believe that their attitude towards UVU has changed. Without football, UVU's options are very, very limited. They have no place to go and would do everything to keep the WAC alive.

Denver didn't want to be with GCU. That's why they left.

(01-17-2023 01:13 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 11:58 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver.

One of the reasons Denver left the WAC was to get away from UVU. They didn't want to be associated with a school that was a junior college just a few years earlier. I could see Northern Colorado joining the Summit to be a partner for Denver, but not UVU.

I don't believe that their attitude towards UVU has changed. Without football, UVU's options are very, very limited. They have no place to go and would do everything to keep the WAC alive.

Denver didn't want to be with GCU. That's why they left.

GCU yeah, Chicago State and UVU didn’t help either.

Suffice it to say there was a lot to dislike about the WAC that made Denver want out.

But here we are, a very short step away from being a depleted league again.

According to Matt Brown, CUSA is talking to current FCS schools about football only memberships.

(01-17-2023 11:06 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  According to Matt Brown, CUSA is talking to current FCS schools about football only memberships.

LINK about specifics? "Word around the campfire" is not very reliable.

(01-17-2023 11:21 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 11:06 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  According to Matt Brown, CUSA is talking to current FCS schools about football only memberships.

LINK about specifics? "Word around the campfire" is not very reliable.

Just what he said in the Judy thread. Obviously, it’s something he had heard. Why would he report something he just made up?

OK. Good point. But there are only two that IMO they would consider-- NDSU and SDSU. There is literally NOBODY else (left) in FCS who could pull that kind of weight for a FB only from fcs.

My guess-- they both turn down C-USA.

(01-17-2023 03:10 AM)RT98 Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 02:58 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 12:18 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 12:44 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

I would imagine by then there would be a decent chance that 2 of CBU, GCU, or Seattle find their way to the WCC. RGV would probably go to the Southland for FCS football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver. I’m afraid SUU and UTU might be in no man’s land, possibly with the left out school that didn’t get taken by the WCC, if that’s how it worked out. Its possible that UVU would stick with the other Utah schools to try to make something work and form a nice core at least. Strength in numbers. Realistically, it could end up just those 3 and a non-WCC invitee.

Arlington would have no reason to stay and would probably go back to the Southland as well. The WAC could possibly get Augustana and see if Chicago would want another stint. I would hope they would decline this time, even if it meant remaining independent. If they were the difference between the WAC retaining its auto bids or not, Chicago should not join, rather schedule the members remaining who need games by either playing in Chicago or paying CSU to travel. They shouldn’t have to give up all of their guarantee games for WAC schools for free because it would be a financial hit.

That would be about 5 members possibly. I’m not sure if there are 2 D2 schools left to move up. Possibly someone else east of the Rockies that might jump primarily because of the opening available, but I don’t know who it could be.

It’s pretty grim.

Lol. UTA will never revert to the Southland. We left because they are a watered-down conference and every defection left us more isolated with our peers as the DII call-ups were schools with no pulse.

David St? Do you have a second account?

Where you end up doesn’t concern me particularly. But the likeliness of UTA staying in a WAC with no other Texas schools that is longer a league with automatic bids to the NCAA is zero. Perhaps you got hung up on the word Southland and missed the scenario in which it was being presented. Simply replace the word Southland with a league of your liking.

I may be wrong, but I don’t believe Lamar planned on returning to the Southland either.

I dont think we would have a choice. Independence for an unknown basketball school like us would not be a good situation and no one else would want us.

actually UTA left the southland as part of their drive to reach texas Tier one status. they had to leave behind the small regional schools with less academic standing and find a home with more like minded schools. I doubt if there was any consideration at all given to the sports aspect of it. they did value being in a conference more than being independent but in my view, if they dont plan to be good in sports, being an indy would probably work fine for them. they could schedule teams the locals would come out to see and maybe that would generate more fan support. IMHO

Quote:If you win the lawsuit, the big schools leave the NCAA. They didn’t do this to grow everyone else’s pie. Then there’s no football money for you.

You still need Mr. Luck just to cut a media deal for this as an FCS conference (never mind FBS), and that’ll be hard enough.

No they won't. The slice of the pie that would go to a new "G6" league is so small it isn't even a dent in what the P5 make.

But here's the bigger point...

The P5 don't actually have to leave to get everything they want. Just the threat of doing so get's them everything they want, plus by staying they get...

1. To beat up on other schools and go 8-4 or 9-3 with some pretty mediocre teams. It keeps the fans happy and the stands full.

2. Additional home games. If they had to play each other all the time they'd lose more, and only get six home games per year while most of them currently play 7 or 8.

They could play each other all the time right now...but they don't because they don't actually want to. My personal favorite example to cite is that Kentucky has not played a P5 team other than Louisville in a non-conference game since 2006!

(01-17-2023 05:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  Suffice it to say there was a lot to dislike about the WAC that made Denver want out.

But here we are, a very short step away from being a depleted league again.

We? Last time I checked your school has already departed. That makes you part of the problem NOT the solution.

(01-18-2023 05:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 05:07 PM)Todor Wrote:  Suffice it to say there was a lot to dislike about the WAC that made Denver want out.

But here we are, a very short step away from being a depleted league again.

We? Last time I checked your school has already departed. That makes you part of the problem NOT the solution.

Is applying for CUSA like Tarleton did, a part of the solution or part of the problem?