(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 12:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  It’s one thing to come on here and spew your opinions but quite another that we accept your logic as facts!

I’m sure you were skeptical that Liberty could just declare themselves FBS without a Conference as well. How has that worked out?

Seems to me many think they are the judge and jury and have but a scant knowledge of how things actually really work.

OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Thanks for the reply.

(01-15-2023 04:52 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:05 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 12:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-14-2023 08:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  And why do you think the way you do?

Quote:Are you an insider on all the ins and outs of what can and cannot be accomplished? Are you smarter than guys like Luck?

It’s one thing to come on here and spew your opinions but quite another that we accept your logic as facts!

I’m sure you were skeptical that Liberty could just declare themselves FBS without a Conference as well. How has that worked out?

Seems to me many think they are the judge and jury and have but a scant knowledge of how things actually really work.

OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Dude, you have to ask the SFA football coach! He’s got all the insider info.

Good luck to this group. I don’t see it happening. Maybe it will, I would bet on it not happening though.

Something is going to happen. But it probably won’t be good. This cluster will get picked apart before it plays one season. Any school foolish enough to place their FBS hopes here will get what they deserve.

Anyway, you’re just jealous because Seattle doesn’t have FBS football Aren’t there any abandoned 1930’s era junior high or high school stadiums around Seattle U that you could take over? That’s really all you need apparently.

You could join the other legions of PNW D1 private universities with football, you know, because some people think that makes sense apparently.

Even all the lug nuts on here won’t stop the wheels from flying off this new franken conference. I give a season or two, at best. Just like when the Flaky 4 Texas schools joined the WAC. Half announced they were leaving again within a few months.

I’ll have to look for those stadiums and pass it along to the AD. Hopefully SU can get on one of DavidSt’s famous lists. I just hope the RedHawks don’t become more popular than the Seahawks! Football!!!!!!!!!

(01-15-2023 05:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:52 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:05 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 12:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  It’s one thing to come on here and spew your opinions but quite another that we accept your logic as facts!

I’m sure you were skeptical that Liberty could just declare themselves FBS without a Conference as well. How has that worked out?

Seems to me many think they are the judge and jury and have but a scant knowledge of how things actually really work.

OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Dude, you have to ask the SFA football coach! He’s got all the insider info.

Good luck to this group. I don’t see it happening. Maybe it will, I would bet on it not happening though.

Something is going to happen. But it probably won’t be good. This cluster will get picked apart before it plays one season. Any school foolish enough to place their FBS hopes here will get what they deserve.

Anyway, you’re just jealous because Seattle doesn’t have FBS football Aren’t there any abandoned 1930’s era junior high or high school stadiums around Seattle U that you could take over? That’s really all you need apparently.

You could join the other legions of PNW D1 private universities with football, you know, because some people think that makes sense apparently.

Even all the lug nuts on here won’t stop the wheels from flying off this new franken conference. I give a season or two, at best. Just like when the Flaky 4 Texas schools joined the WAC. Half announced they were leaving again within a few months.

I’ll have to look for those stadiums and pass it along to the AD. Hopefully SU can get on one of DavidSt’s famous lists. I just hope the RedHawks don’t become more popular than the Seahawks! Football!!!!!!!!!

All you have to do is become FBS and just use all the money that will instantly flow your way to make the needed upgrades, just like most of these schools are planning. And it doesn’t matter if you have fans, just look at the attendance they’ve had recently.

You’d be fools not to do it. Then you’d be in the big time like these guys. What good is a Jesuit education, academic rankings, or a law school if you don’t have a crappy FBS program that no one cares about? Man, Seattle U must be run by idiots to not see this.

I just hope these schools have Triple A because it’s gonna be one broken down mess sitting on the FBS exit ramp.

(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 12:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  It’s one thing to come on here and spew your opinions but quite another that we accept your logic as facts!

I’m sure you were skeptical that Liberty could just declare themselves FBS without a Conference as well. How has that worked out?

Seems to me many think they are the judge and jury and have but a scant knowledge of how things actually really work.

OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Memorial Stadium is technically FBS-ready, just needs some finishing touches.

The East stands will be completely redone, along with some other upgrades, but a few things have/had to happen first:

• Removal of stadium track and the construction of completely separate NCAA-certified track & field facility.
  

• Construction of North endzone seating. This will provide extra seating while East stands are being reconstructed. Not big rush here. Football stadium buildouts and cosmetic touchups will probably be ongoing for some time.
  

• Complete overhaul and recontruction of baseball & softball complex. This was in dire need of attention. Just completed.
  

• Vertical Parking Garage. This will not only provide much needed overflow parking for students, but also event parking for patrons to the new arena. This is actually Phase I of the arena build.
  

And, while we're on the subject, it's actually a $110 mil, 8,000 seat Convocation Center / BASKETBALL ARENA. Which has already broken ground (parking garage). Estimated completion date is 18-20 months.

Truth be told, nobody knows if this new FBS conference thing is going to work. You just kinda have to go with your gut and argue your hypothesis. The fact we've been evaluating this behind the scenes with Oliver Luck & Co. for over a year and we're still pressing forward is a great sign. My gut tells me Tarleton is going FBS by 2026, come hell or high water, and if it takes bringing an entire conference (or two) with it, so be it!

Other highly-respected schools like ACU and SFA definitely have the backing and the resources to make changes quickly. UTRGV is gonna be coming in hot in 2025. EKU ain't playing around, either! Austin Peay is saying all the right things: "FBS by 2025". UNA seems very well supported and has a long history of success. The real picture will start to unfold when we learn who these "other 4" schools are we're currently negotiating with.

I will humbly say: I don't think any other school is more FBS-ready than Tarleton. Definitely none have been more persistently active in their pursuits over the past few years. The way I see it, our President has been assigned a task, and he and Lonn are pursuing it with reckless abandon. We're definitely putting our money where our mouth is, and I know many Tarleton Texans, young and old, that wouldn't have it any other way!

Look, the bottom line is at this point we are already at all systems GO! And pursuing this thing NOW! Not 10 years from now. Might as well get onboard and lend your support! I personally 100% trust and support our leadership to fully understand the reasoning behind the sense of urgency. I do know this: alot is going to change in 2026 that will affect NCAA football as we know it for the next 30-35 years. "FBS by 2025" is not just some arbitrary number being thrown around. It is a born-on date, set to expire. I'm just glad that we're getting out ahead of it.

(01-15-2023 05:26 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 05:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:52 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:05 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Dude, you have to ask the SFA football coach! He’s got all the insider info.

Good luck to this group. I don’t see it happening. Maybe it will, I would bet on it not happening though.

Something is going to happen. But it probably won’t be good. This cluster will get picked apart before it plays one season. Any school foolish enough to place their FBS hopes here will get what they deserve.

Anyway, you’re just jealous because Seattle doesn’t have FBS football Aren’t there any abandoned 1930’s era junior high or high school stadiums around Seattle U that you could take over? That’s really all you need apparently.

You could join the other legions of PNW D1 private universities with football, you know, because some people think that makes sense apparently.

Even all the lug nuts on here won’t stop the wheels from flying off this new franken conference. I give a season or two, at best. Just like when the Flaky 4 Texas schools joined the WAC. Half announced they were leaving again within a few months.

I’ll have to look for those stadiums and pass it along to the AD. Hopefully SU can get on one of DavidSt’s famous lists. I just hope the RedHawks don’t become more popular than the Seahawks! Football!!!!!!!!!

All you have to do is become FBS and just use all the money that will instantly flow your way to make the needed upgrades, just like most of these schools are planning. And it doesn’t matter if you have fans, just look at the attendance they’ve had recently.

You’d be fools not to do it. Then you’d be in the big time like these guys. What good is a Jesuit education, academic rankings, or a law school if you don’t have a crappy FBS program that no one cares about? Man, Seattle U must be run by idiots to not see this.

I just hope these schools have Triple A because it’s gonna be one broken down mess sitting on the FBS exit ramp.

How do you know what these schools are/aren't planning? Answer = you don't, and yours hasn't been the argument given. Thanks for the input though...

(01-15-2023 06:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Stadium is technically FBS-ready, just needs some finishing touches.

The East stands will be completely redone, along with some other upgrades, but a few things have/had to happen first:

• Removal of stadium track and the construction of completely separate NCAA-certified track & field facility.
  

• Construction of North endzone seating. This will provide extra seating while East stands are being reconstructed. Not big rush here. Memorial Stadium buildouts and cosmetic touchups will probably be ongoing for some time.
  

• Complete overhaul and recontruction baseball & doftball complex. This was in dire need of attention. Just completed.
  

• Vertical Parking Garage. This will not only provide much needed overflow parking for students, but also event patrons to the new arena. This is actually Phase I of the arena build.
  

And, while we're on the subject, it's actually a $110mil, 8,000 seat Convocation Center / BASKETBALL ARENA. Which has already broken ground (parking garage). Estimated completion date is 18-20 months.

Truth be told, nobody knows if this new FBS conference thing is going to work. Just kinda have to go with your gut and argue your hypothesis. The fact we've been evaluating this behind the scenes with Oliver Luck & Co. for over a year and we're still pressing forward is a great sign. My gut tells me Tarleton is going FBS by 2026, come hell or high water, and if it takes bringing an entire conference (or two) with it, so be it!

Other highly-respected schools like ACU and SFA definitely have the backing and the resources to make changes quickly. UTRGV is gonna be coming in hot in 2025. EKU ain't playing around, either. Austin Peay is saying all the right things: "FBS by 2025". UNA seems very well supported and has a history of success. The real picture will start to play out when we learn who these "other 4" schools are we're currently negotiating with.

I will humbly say: I don't think any other school is more FBS-ready than Tarleton. Definitely none have been more persistently active in their pursuits over the past few years. The way I see it, our President has been assigned a task, and he and Lonn are pursuing it with reckless abandon. We're definitely putting our money where our mouth is, and I know many Tarleton Texans, young and old, that wouldn't have it any other way!

Look, the bottom line is at this point we are already at all systems GO! And pursuing this thing NOW! Not 10 years from now. Might as well get onboard and go lend your support! I personally 100% trust and support our leadership to fully understand the reasoning behind the sense of urgency. I do know this: alot is going to change in 2026 that will affect NCAA football as we know it for the next 30-35 years. "FBS by 2025" is not just some arbitrary number being thrown around. It is a born-on date, set to expire. I'm just glad that we're out ahead of it.

The truth is that several of the schools do have a very long way to go, like SUU, UNA and others. The truth is also that we don't know what they can/can't do in two years or what exactly they are currently working on. Our facilities are ready, or could be ready within 1 year. Our football stadium was built to expand and the plans are already sitting there. Our alumn and President have what it needs to make it happen. Will it? Who knows. I am not acting like I have a crystal ball like others and others like DoubleRSU, Todor, etc... don't really care. At this point, this whole discussion is a dumpster fire because it doesn't have enough people in it that can actually contribute anything worthwhile.

(01-15-2023 06:24 PM)Outsider Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 06:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Stadium is technically FBS-ready, just needs some finishing touches.

The East stands will be completely redone, along with some other upgrades, but a few things have/had to happen first:

• Removal of stadium track and the construction of completely separate NCAA-certified track & field facility.
  

• Construction of North endzone seating. This will provide extra seating while East stands are being reconstructed. Not big rush here. Memorial Stadium buildouts and cosmetic touchups will probably be ongoing for some time.
  

• Complete overhaul and recontruction baseball & doftball complex. This was in dire need of attention. Just completed.
  

• Vertical Parking Garage. This will not only provide much needed overflow parking for students, but also event patrons to the new arena. This is actually Phase I of the arena build.
  

And, while we're on the subject, it's actually a $110mil, 8,000 seat Convocation Center / BASKETBALL ARENA. Which has already broken ground (parking garage). Estimated completion date is 18-20 months.

Truth be told, nobody knows if this new FBS conference thing is going to work. Just kinda have to go with your gut and argue your hypothesis. The fact we've been evaluating this behind the scenes with Oliver Luck & Co. for over a year and we're still pressing forward is a great sign. My gut tells me Tarleton is going FBS by 2026, come hell or high water, and if it takes bringing an entire conference (or two) with it, so be it!

Other highly-respected schools like ACU and SFA definitely have the backing and the resources to make changes quickly. UTRGV is gonna be coming in hot in 2025. EKU ain't playing around, either. Austin Peay is saying all the right things: "FBS by 2025". UNA seems very well supported and has a history of success. The real picture will start to play out when we learn who these "other 4" schools are we're currently negotiating with.

I will humbly say: I don't think any other school is more FBS-ready than Tarleton. Definitely none have been more persistently active in their pursuits over the past few years. The way I see it, our President has been assigned a task, and he and Lonn are pursuing it with reckless abandon. We're definitely putting our money where our mouth is, and I know many Tarleton Texans, young and old, that wouldn't have it any other way!

Look, the bottom line is at this point we are already at all systems GO! And pursuing this thing NOW! Not 10 years from now. Might as well get onboard and go lend your support! I personally 100% trust and support our leadership to fully understand the reasoning behind the sense of urgency. I do know this: alot is going to change in 2026 that will affect NCAA football as we know it for the next 30-35 years. "FBS by 2025" is not just some arbitrary number being thrown around. It is a born-on date, set to expire. I'm just glad that we're out ahead of it.

The truth is that several of the schools do have a very long way to go, like SUU, UNA and others. The truth is also that we don't know what they can/can't do in two years or what exactly they are currently working on. Our facilities are ready, or could be ready within 1 year. Our football stadium was built to expand and the plans are already sitting there. Our alumn and President have what it needs to make it happen. Will it? Who knows. I am not acting like I have a crystal ball like others and others like DoubleRSU, Todor, etc... don't really care. At this point, this whole discussion is a dumpster fire because it doesn't have enough people in it that can actually contribute anything worthwhile.

It was a dumpster fire 13 1/2 pages before I said a word. Once the topic turned to why Seattle doesn’t have football, it had clearly run its course.

The thread never had anyone in it that contributed anything worthwhile.

Sure it did Todor, just not you or DoubleRSU. It hasn't run its course yet because it hasn't happened one way or the other, but thanks for showing us again why you don't have the capacity to contribute.

My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

(01-15-2023 06:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Memorial Stadium is technically FBS-ready, just needs some finishing touches.

The East stands will be completely redone, along with some other upgrades, but a few things have/had to happen first:

• Removal of stadium track and the construction of completely separate NCAA-certified track & field facility.
  

• Construction of North endzone seating. This will provide extra seating while East stands are being reconstructed. Not big rush here. Football stadium buildouts and cosmetic touchups will probably be ongoing for some time.
  

• Complete overhaul and recontruction of baseball & softball complex. This was in dire need of attention. Just completed.
  

• Vertical Parking Garage. This will not only provide much needed overflow parking for students, but also event parking for patrons to the new arena. This is actually Phase I of the arena build.
  

And, while we're on the subject, it's actually a $110 mil, 8,000 seat Convocation Center / BASKETBALL ARENA. Which has already broken ground (parking garage). Estimated completion date is 18-20 months.

Truth be told, nobody knows if this new FBS conference thing is going to work. You just kinda have to go with your gut and argue your hypothesis. The fact we've been evaluating this behind the scenes with Oliver Luck & Co. for over a year and we're still pressing forward is a great sign. My gut tells me Tarleton is going FBS by 2026, come hell or high water, and if it takes bringing an entire conference (or two) with it, so be it!

Other highly-respected schools like ACU and SFA definitely have the backing and the resources to make changes quickly. UTRGV is gonna be coming in hot in 2025. EKU ain't playing around, either! Austin Peay is saying all the right things: "FBS by 2025". UNA seems very well supported and has a long history of success. The real picture will start to unfold when we learn who these "other 4" schools are we're currently negotiating with.

I will humbly say: I don't think any other school is more FBS-ready than Tarleton. Definitely none have been more persistently active in their pursuits over the past few years. The way I see it, our President has been assigned a task, and he and Lonn are pursuing it with reckless abandon. We're definitely putting our money where our mouth is, and I know many Tarleton Texans, young and old, that wouldn't have it any other way!

Look, the bottom line is at this point we are already at all systems GO! And pursuing this thing NOW! Not 10 years from now. Might as well get onboard and lend your support! I personally 100% trust and support our leadership to fully understand the reasoning behind the sense of urgency. I do know this: alot is going to change in 2026 that will affect NCAA football as we know it for the next 30-35 years. "FBS by 2025" is not just some arbitrary number being thrown around. It is a born-on date, set to expire. I'm just glad that we're getting out ahead of it.

Oh, I get it and at the breakneck speed Tarleton is growing both in Stephenville and Ft Worth the brand is growing as well and attracting more students every year.

I don’t so much keep up with the landscape of college football so I can see the urgency as well if things are going to change as you believe.

That blizzard in Minnesota I believe cost us a NC and I would like another shot in FCS but that may never come to fruition. Just my thoughts.

I do realize that is not the goal of the University. TSU has strong leadership that are forward thinkers. I suspect no matter how this venture goes they will be FBS ready in a very short timeframe.

(01-15-2023 07:35 PM)Outsider Wrote:  Sure it did Todor, just not you or DoubleRSU. It hasn't run its course yet because it hasn't happened one way or the other, but thanks for showing us again why you don't have the capacity to contribute.

It sure didn’t take you long to click on my basketball stats thread to see what I’d posted. Odd move if you’re right about me.

Busted…

(01-15-2023 08:43 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 07:35 PM)Outsider Wrote:  Sure it did Todor, just not you or DoubleRSU. It hasn't run its course yet because it hasn't happened one way or the other, but thanks for showing us again why you don't have the capacity to contribute.

It sure didn’t take you long to click on my basketball stats thread to see what I’d posted. Odd move if you’re right about me.

Busted…

Wow, what are your basketball stats? Like I care. Hope TSU owns your Aggies this year although I don’t have any interest in the sport.

Not sure any of us wants to be the bottom dweller of an FBS conference. I just want a good strong conference that provides excitement and rivalries that people enjoy. If FBS is the way to go, we will likely go that way, but ACU holds the 4th or 5th most national champions in all sports nationwide if you count all divisions. Of course none are in FBS football, but those were fun years beating the best in the nation at the Texas Relays. Winning national championships is fun, even little ones like NAIA or D-II.

A pillar of ACU's long term plan includes a strong athletics program and our history demands that. We have great support to build whatever is needed. Right now I have no clue what the best course forward might be. College athletics is changing so rapidly, I am not sure conferences or particular sports like football will survive the coming year in any way we can imagine today. Maybe there will be 20 or so super football schools and a ton of "others." NIL is going to mean only a few will really be in the most powerful level. We already see the PAC12 unraveling. The Big 12 is changing as well.

What would be great for me is elite schools with competitive sports teams in a conference where all members can arise and win championships from time to time. So a strong and stable conference is my wish, FCS or FBS does not really matter. If we are exciting and create good rivalries, attendance should rise and who knows what the TV money is going to do? It may be the cost of all those NILs outweigh the funds from television, and eat into the support for the whole university. I would just like all our programs to be reasonable in cost and not dominate the overall educational mission of the universities. But what do I know... other than I love sports, and don't want to see us diminish them. going forward.

(01-15-2023 07:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

(01-15-2023 06:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 02:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  OK, I asked how this is supposed to work, and I get told that I'm not as smart as the guys running the operation, so I should basically shut up.

That's not terribly convincing.

You asked what I said in the past?
Liberty was a special case.

I googled what I've said about Liberty going FBS in the past.
2012, I thought they pretty much had to call the WAC, when the WAC was still in their 2 year waiver period.
https://caa.csnbbs.com/printthread.php?t...921&page=1

I can't confirm that I posted that Liberty had a good chance at a waiver, because they had a solid case that they were blackballed because Jerry Falwell-style Christianity is looked down upon in academia, and then-CUSA and then-Sun Belt administrators weren't very diplomatic about it.

Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Memorial Stadium is technically FBS-ready, just needs some finishing touches.

The East stands will be completely redone, along with some other upgrades, but a few things have/had to happen first:

• Removal of stadium track and the construction of completely separate NCAA-certified track & field facility.
  

• Construction of North endzone seating. This will provide extra seating while East stands are being reconstructed. Not big rush here. Football stadium buildouts and cosmetic touchups will probably be ongoing for some time.
  

• Complete overhaul and recontruction of baseball & softball complex. This was in dire need of attention. Just completed.
  

• Vertical Parking Garage. This will not only provide much needed overflow parking for students, but also event parking for patrons to the new arena. This is actually Phase I of the arena build.
  

And, while we're on the subject, it's actually a $110 mil, 8,000 seat Convocation Center / BASKETBALL ARENA. Which has already broken ground (parking garage). Estimated completion date is 18-20 months.

Truth be told, nobody knows if this new FBS conference thing is going to work. You just kinda have to go with your gut and argue your hypothesis. The fact we've been evaluating this behind the scenes with Oliver Luck & Co. for over a year and we're still pressing forward is a great sign. My gut tells me Tarleton is going FBS by 2026, come hell or high water, and if it takes bringing an entire conference (or two) with it, so be it!

Other highly-respected schools like ACU and SFA definitely have the backing and the resources to make changes quickly. UTRGV is gonna be coming in hot in 2025. EKU ain't playing around, either! Austin Peay is saying all the right things: "FBS by 2025". UNA seems very well supported and has a long history of success. The real picture will start to unfold when we learn who these "other 4" schools are we're currently negotiating with.

I will humbly say: I don't think any other school is more FBS-ready than Tarleton. Definitely none have been more persistently active in their pursuits over the past few years. The way I see it, our President has been assigned a task, and he and Lonn are pursuing it with reckless abandon. We're definitely putting our money where our mouth is, and I know many Tarleton Texans, young and old, that wouldn't have it any other way!

Look, the bottom line is at this point we are already at all systems GO! And pursuing this thing NOW! Not 10 years from now. Might as well get onboard and lend your support! I personally 100% trust and support our leadership to fully understand the reasoning behind the sense of urgency. I do know this: alot is going to change in 2026 that will affect NCAA football as we know it for the next 30-35 years. "FBS by 2025" is not just some arbitrary number being thrown around. It is a born-on date, set to expire. I'm just glad that we're getting out ahead of it.

Outstanding summary of our beloved school!!!!

(01-16-2023 12:44 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 07:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

I would imagine by then there would be a decent chance that 2 of CBU, GCU, or Seattle find their way to the WCC. RGV would probably go to the Southland for FCS football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver. I’m afraid SUU and UTU might be in no man’s land, possibly with the left out school that didn’t get taken by the WCC, if that’s how it worked out. Its possible that UVU would stick with the other Utah schools to try to make something work and form a nice core at least. Strength in numbers. Realistically, it could end up just those 3 and a non-WCC invitee.

Arlington would have no reason to stay and would probably go back to the Southland as well. The WAC could possibly get Augustana and see if Chicago would want another stint. I would hope they would decline this time, even if it meant remaining independent. If they were the difference between the WAC retaining its auto bids or not, Chicago should not join, rather schedule the members remaining who need games by either playing in Chicago or paying CSU to travel. They shouldn’t have to give up all of their guarantee games for WAC schools for free because it would be a financial hit.

That would be about 5 members possibly. I’m not sure if there are 2 D2 schools left to move up. Possibly someone else east of the Rockies that might jump primarily because of the opening available, but I don’t know who it could be.

It’s pretty grim.

(01-15-2023 05:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  I’ll have to look for those stadiums and pass it along to the AD. Hopefully SU can get on one of DavidSt’s famous lists. I just hope the RedHawks don’t become more popular than the Seahawks! Football!!!!!!!!!

I apologize… I really should have a series of pictures from the last time I saw the Reign play the Thorns at Memorial Stadium. Special attention to the restrooms. (Just so those of you who are not PNW know, my restraining myself from laughing is registering on the Richter scale) Has the neighborhood convinced the school district to convert that place to a high school yet? Of course, capacity is what, 11,000? I am aware of when the NASL Sounders could get 18-19K in there 47 years ago.

There’s always Starfire.

But I should bring this down to the nuts and bolts. Price some houses and hotel rooms in Seattle. Do it. Heck, do it for Portland, too.

A small group of us were in Kansas City a few years ago, waiting to get into one of the best BBQ joints. We see condos across the street, and one of my friends goes to Zillow and find out they’re going for $75,000… at the time, you’d be dropping $300K in Portland for a similar location. After all the things that have happened, the Portland equivalent is probably more expensive now, though it probably did peak 18 months ago. Point being it’s been expensive here for some time, so we aren’t just conjuring football stadiums from sheer will. Ask Portland State.

I suspect Utah Tech and SUU will stay FCS and there will be a trade off with some other BSC teams such as the Montana's or Weber and Idaho. UNA may very well do the same, trade conference spots with someone such as a Chattanooga, or Missouri St etc...I think they are going along to be a team player and all, and being used as bait to lure more high profile teams to take their place. Can you really see Weber letting Utah Tech and SUU go FBS and not doing anything about it? The Magic number is 8, and with UTRGV coming along, that makes 10, so even if the Utah schools back out if no one else comes in they still have the minimum 8 to go FBS. Though UNA is a concern, I know the other 3 ASUN schools are all in to go FBS.

(01-16-2023 02:07 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-16-2023 12:44 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 07:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  My only concern is WAC survival. I was here when the WAC had to “dumpster dive” for Great West schools. I do not want to be a part of a 6 or 7 team conference that is on the verge of being picked off. “We” have already done that. This conference doesn’t get the credit it deserves. UMKC and Lamar couldn’t compete here like they thought they could. UIW also knew they couldn’t compete in anything other than football and decided to remain in the SLC.

So excuse me for not being gung ho for this step child football league. I do not **think** it will work out like some of you hope. I don’t want to see SFA and SUU leave to join other conferences once this thing implodes. In my opinion, schools that are lucky to get 3,000 to most football games, don’t belong in FBS. I have a hard time believing schools located in Utah and Alabama are long for each other. If people in Cedar City are showing up 4,000 for Weber State, why will that number increase when North Alabama comes to town? Just because SUU can make $400,000 more for a 65-7 pounding by BYU, Cedar City will start going to more games. That doesn’t make sense.

If the WAC FBS thing doesn't work who are the 6 or 7 schools that stick it out in the WAC?

SU GCU CBU UVU UT UTA UTRGV?

I would imagine by then there would be a decent chance that 2 of CBU, GCU, or Seattle find their way to the WCC. RGV would probably go to the Southland for FCS football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see UVU to the Summit as a partner for Denver. I’m afraid SUU and UTU might be in no man’s land, possibly with the left out school that didn’t get taken by the WCC, if that’s how it worked out. Its possible that UVU would stick with the other Utah schools to try to make something work and form a nice core at least. Strength in numbers. Realistically, it could end up just those 3 and a non-WCC invitee.

Arlington would have no reason to stay and would probably go back to the Southland as well. The WAC could possibly get Augustana and see if Chicago would want another stint. I would hope they would decline this time, even if it meant remaining independent. If they were the difference between the WAC retaining its auto bids or not, Chicago should not join, rather schedule the members remaining who need games by either playing in Chicago or paying CSU to travel. They shouldn’t have to give up all of their guarantee games for WAC schools for free because it would be a financial hit.

That would be about 5 members possibly. I’m not sure if there are 2 D2 schools left to move up. Possibly someone else east of the Rockies that might jump primarily because of the opening available, but I don’t know who it could be.

It’s pretty grim.

Or….,the set of schools that jump to FBS as all a sports Conference join the WAC.

You do see how that works don’t you Negative Nancy.

(01-15-2023 08:01 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 06:12 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:48 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:09 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2023 04:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Hmmmm seems there is always an exception to the rule.

Negative Nancy has all the reasons why something can’t be accomplished. But, when someone points out there flawed arguments this is the typical response they come up with.

I’m personally against it. I think my school needs at least the end of the decade but it’s not my call.

I will say this TSU is more prepared than SHSU and is outgrowing them as well and is better backed financially. In saying that I fully expect SHSU to be a doormat in FBS which is why I’m not excited about FBS.

Here’s someone that might have intelligence. Why does Tarleton need until the end of the decade, in your opinion? And you’re talking about joining a FBS conference period or in a league like this proposal?

Out of the WAC/Asun schools, Tarleton has at least upgraded their stadium and it isn’t small. Some of these other schools, have no business talking about FBS.

Simple answer is infrastructure. The football stadium still needs to be finished and the newly approved $72 million Convocation Center needs to be built for basketball. As well as completing more of the Ft Worth campus to add to the enrollment for athletic funding.

But, my real reason is that I want to see Tarleton make some deep playoff runs in FCS before exiting to FBS. I have no doubt with the facilities and the Athletic leadership this can happen quickly once transition is complete and recruits know they will be competing for a title.

Memorial Stadium is technically FBS-ready, just needs some finishing touches.

The East stands will be completely redone, along with some other upgrades, but a few things have/had to happen first:

• Removal of stadium track and the construction of completely separate NCAA-certified track & field facility.
  

• Construction of North endzone seating. This will provide extra seating while East stands are being reconstructed. Not big rush here. Football stadium buildouts and cosmetic touchups will probably be ongoing for some time.
  

• Complete overhaul and recontruction of baseball & softball complex. This was in dire need of attention. Just completed.
  

• Vertical Parking Garage. This will not only provide much needed overflow parking for students, but also event parking for patrons to the new arena. This is actually Phase I of the arena build.
  

And, while we're on the subject, it's actually a $110 mil, 8,000 seat Convocation Center / BASKETBALL ARENA. Which has already broken ground (parking garage). Estimated completion date is 18-20 months.

Truth be told, nobody knows if this new FBS conference thing is going to work. You just kinda have to go with your gut and argue your hypothesis. The fact we've been evaluating this behind the scenes with Oliver Luck & Co. for over a year and we're still pressing forward is a great sign. My gut tells me Tarleton is going FBS by 2026, come hell or high water, and if it takes bringing an entire conference (or two) with it, so be it!

Other highly-respected schools like ACU and SFA definitely have the backing and the resources to make changes quickly. UTRGV is gonna be coming in hot in 2025. EKU ain't playing around, either! Austin Peay is saying all the right things: "FBS by 2025". UNA seems very well supported and has a long history of success. The real picture will start to unfold when we learn who these "other 4" schools are we're currently negotiating with.

I will humbly say: I don't think any other school is more FBS-ready than Tarleton. Definitely none have been more persistently active in their pursuits over the past few years. The way I see it, our President has been assigned a task, and he and Lonn are pursuing it with reckless abandon. We're definitely putting our money where our mouth is, and I know many Tarleton Texans, young and old, that wouldn't have it any other way!

Look, the bottom line is at this point we are already at all systems GO! And pursuing this thing NOW! Not 10 years from now. Might as well get onboard and lend your support! I personally 100% trust and support our leadership to fully understand the reasoning behind the sense of urgency. I do know this: alot is going to change in 2026 that will affect NCAA football as we know it for the next 30-35 years. "FBS by 2025" is not just some arbitrary number being thrown around. It is a born-on date, set to expire. I'm just glad that we're getting out ahead of it.

Oh, I get it and at the breakneck speed Tarleton is growing both in Stephenville and Ft Worth the brand is growing as well and attracting more students every year.

I don’t so much keep up with the landscape of college football so I can see the urgency as well if things are going to change as you believe.

That blizzard in Minnesota I believe cost us a NC and I would like another shot in FCS but that may never come to fruition. Just my thoughts.

I do realize that is not the goal of the University. TSU has strong leadership that are forward thinkers. I suspect no matter how this venture goes they will be FBS ready in a very short timeframe.

I agree with all of the things you have said. Tarleton wanted Division 1 in 2005 (when Corpus Christi and Central Arkansas joined the Southland) Our teams were great (including numerous appearances as D2 #1 MBB team in the nation). However, the rumors then were Tarleton's facilities kept them out of running. I'm pretty sure that took that comment seriously because facility improvements have been on the master plan since then.

I dont know if WAC/ASUN FBS will ever come to fruition. Maybe schools like Utah Tech or SFA will decide they dont want to go FBS. However, there are other schools in that agreement that are in the Conference USA footprint and that league is still in the rebuild phase.

CUSA doesnt need/want Tarleton right now. Tarleton is still in their D1 transition period, and no FBS conference is extending an invite to us right now.

However, I think by continuing to push for this, we are keeping our name out there for FBS realignment. By investing into new facilities, we are telling leagues that we are committed. We want to make damn sure that facilities are never the reason.