Arizona Supreme Court rules original law in the books in effect: Abortion now banned in Arizona w/ the exception of to save the life of the mother.

States judges in Kentucky and Florida have joined Texas, Utah and Louisiana in blocking their state laws from going into effect

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...022-06-30/

(07-01-2022 08:38 AM)solohawks Wrote:  States judges in Kentucky and Florida have joined Texas, Utah and Louisiana in blocking their state laws from going into effect

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...022-06-30/

Those are just by states' lower courts, correct? Ordering injunctions?

(07-01-2022 08:38 AM)solohawks Wrote:  States judges in Kentucky and Florida have joined Texas, Utah and Louisiana in blocking their state laws from going into effect

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...022-06-30/

Hell, the abortion clinic in Mississippi that lost the SC case filed suit......again. And they weren't put out of business with the law that took place. They just can't perform abortions after 15 weeks.

(07-01-2022 08:42 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 08:38 AM)solohawks Wrote:  States judges in Kentucky and Florida have joined Texas, Utah and Louisiana in blocking their state laws from going into effect

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...022-06-30/

Those are just by states' lower courts, correct? Ordering injunctions?

Yep.

These will all ultimately end up in State Supreme Courts where State Constitutions will be evaluated.

Utah - 5R/0D
Texas - 9R/0D
Louisiana - 5R/2D (Chief Justice is officially Independent but he leans D)
Florida - 7R/0D (4 by DeSantis 3 by now Dem Crist)
Kentucky - All Nonpartisan but in reality I'm seeing 4R/3D

(07-01-2022 08:53 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 08:38 AM)solohawks Wrote:  States judges in Kentucky and Florida have joined Texas, Utah and Louisiana in blocking their state laws from going into effect

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...022-06-30/

Hell, the abortion clinic in Mississippi that lost the SC case filed suit......again. And they weren't put out of business with the law that took place. They just can't perform abortions after 15 weeks.

It wouldn't surprise me.

In states with abortion laws more prohibitive than Roe v Wade, you are going to see states have their own Roe v Wade decisions.

In states that elect judges this fall, abortion will be on the ballot big time.

For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

(07-01-2022 03:52 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

I think the fact you think it's pure comedy gold is in fact pure comedy gold. Iran is one of the most restricted places on the planet to get an abortion, yet "officially" there is only about 10k/yr abortions performed there legally. Unofficially, illegally, it's estimated that anywhere between 300k-600k/yr are "induced" there. This comes from indirect surveys of Iranian women which shows anywhere between 12-14% of Iranian women have had an induced abortion.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1363/44e6218?seq=1

The estimates of the prevalence of induced abortion among Iranian women from the two indirect methods used in this study-14% from RRT and 12% from UCT-are substantially higher than previous estimates from direct questions, and provide more evidence that indirect methods may be superior to direct methods for the estimation of abortion in settings where the procedure is legally restricted.

And if you still have to ask HOW they are doing it after I just told you? Maybe this will wake you up.

https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/...ion-rates/

According to Mohammad Mahdi Akhundi, head of the Iranian Society of Embryology and Reproductive Biology, import of abortion pills is banned in Iran. However the pills (misoprostol) and vials (prostaglandin) that can cause miscarriage are available in the black market and from peddlers in Nasser Khosrow Street near Tehran’s downtown Grand Bazaar.

Now remember illegal abortion in Iran can get a death sentence. They have a "Guardian Council" just like we do here now. If so many abortions are still happening in Iran, it's happening EVERYWHERE abortion is illegal, Guardian Council or not.

(07-01-2022 04:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 03:52 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

I think the fact you think it's pure comedy gold is in fact pure comedy gold. Iran is one of the most restricted places on the planet to get an abortion, yet "officially" there is only about 10k/yr abortions performed there legally. Unofficially, illegally, it's estimated that anywhere between 300k-600k/yr are "induced" there. This comes from indirect surveys of Iranian women which shows anywhere between 12-14% of Iranian women have had an induced abortion.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1363/44e6218?seq=1

The estimates of the prevalence of induced abortion among Iranian women from the two indirect methods used in this study-14% from RRT and 12% from UCT-are substantially higher than previous estimates from direct questions, and provide more evidence that indirect methods may be superior to direct methods for the estimation of abortion in settings where the procedure is legally restricted.

And if you still have to ask HOW they are doing it after I just told you? Maybe this will wake you up.

https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/...ion-rates/

According to Mohammad Mahdi Akhundi, head of the Iranian Society of Embryology and Reproductive Biology, import of abortion pills is banned in Iran. However the pills (misoprostol) and vials (prostaglandin) that can cause miscarriage are available in the black market and from peddlers in Nasser Khosrow Street near Tehran’s downtown Grand Bazaar.

Now remember illegal abortion in Iran can get a death sentence. They have a "Guardian Council" just like we do here now. If so many abortions are still happening in Iran, it's happening EVERYWHERE abortion is illegal, Guardian Council or not.

You you do know that women are property and have no rights in Iran. I'm sure there are thousands of WOMEN killed also for being pregnant there. What is your point. Surely you aren't comparing women's rights in Iran with the US?

(07-01-2022 04:56 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 04:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 03:52 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

I think the fact you think it's pure comedy gold is in fact pure comedy gold. Iran is one of the most restricted places on the planet to get an abortion, yet "officially" there is only about 10k/yr abortions performed there legally. Unofficially, illegally, it's estimated that anywhere between 300k-600k/yr are "induced" there. This comes from indirect surveys of Iranian women which shows anywhere between 12-14% of Iranian women have had an induced abortion.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1363/44e6218?seq=1

The estimates of the prevalence of induced abortion among Iranian women from the two indirect methods used in this study-14% from RRT and 12% from UCT-are substantially higher than previous estimates from direct questions, and provide more evidence that indirect methods may be superior to direct methods for the estimation of abortion in settings where the procedure is legally restricted.

And if you still have to ask HOW they are doing it after I just told you? Maybe this will wake you up.

https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/...ion-rates/

According to Mohammad Mahdi Akhundi, head of the Iranian Society of Embryology and Reproductive Biology, import of abortion pills is banned in Iran. However the pills (misoprostol) and vials (prostaglandin) that can cause miscarriage are available in the black market and from peddlers in Nasser Khosrow Street near Tehran’s downtown Grand Bazaar.

Now remember illegal abortion in Iran can get a death sentence. They have a "Guardian Council" just like we do here now. If so many abortions are still happening in Iran, it's happening EVERYWHERE abortion is illegal, Guardian Council or not.

You you do know that women are property and have no rights in Iran. I'm sure there are thousands of WOMEN killed also for being pregnant there. What is your point. Surely you aren't comparing women's rights in Iran with the US?

Women's rights here do not equal those of men. Republicans have fought against equality ever since the late 70's when it ALMOST became part of the Constitution. And under the new Guardian Council, I'm sure women's rights will more closely match those of Iran in no time. But that wasn't my point. My point was that making abortion illegal does nothing to get rid of the problem. If anything it makes the situation worse.

(07-01-2022 05:02 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 04:56 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 04:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 03:52 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

I think the fact you think it's pure comedy gold is in fact pure comedy gold. Iran is one of the most restricted places on the planet to get an abortion, yet "officially" there is only about 10k/yr abortions performed there legally. Unofficially, illegally, it's estimated that anywhere between 300k-600k/yr are "induced" there. This comes from indirect surveys of Iranian women which shows anywhere between 12-14% of Iranian women have had an induced abortion.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1363/44e6218?seq=1

The estimates of the prevalence of induced abortion among Iranian women from the two indirect methods used in this study-14% from RRT and 12% from UCT-are substantially higher than previous estimates from direct questions, and provide more evidence that indirect methods may be superior to direct methods for the estimation of abortion in settings where the procedure is legally restricted.

And if you still have to ask HOW they are doing it after I just told you? Maybe this will wake you up.

https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/...ion-rates/

According to Mohammad Mahdi Akhundi, head of the Iranian Society of Embryology and Reproductive Biology, import of abortion pills is banned in Iran. However the pills (misoprostol) and vials (prostaglandin) that can cause miscarriage are available in the black market and from peddlers in Nasser Khosrow Street near Tehran’s downtown Grand Bazaar.

Now remember illegal abortion in Iran can get a death sentence. They have a "Guardian Council" just like we do here now. If so many abortions are still happening in Iran, it's happening EVERYWHERE abortion is illegal, Guardian Council or not.

You you do know that women are property and have no rights in Iran. I'm sure there are thousands of WOMEN killed also for being pregnant there. What is your point. Surely you aren't comparing women's rights in Iran with the US?

Women's rights here do not equal those of men. Republicans have fought against equality ever since the late 70's when it ALMOST became part of the Constitution. And under the new Guardian Council, I'm sure women's rights will more closely match those of Iran in no time. But that wasn't my point. My point was that making abortion illegal does nothing to get rid of the problem. If anything it makes the situation worse.

Examples please. You're just making pshit up now. Gimme 3

(07-01-2022 05:02 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 04:56 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 04:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 03:52 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

I think the fact you think it's pure comedy gold is in fact pure comedy gold. Iran is one of the most restricted places on the planet to get an abortion, yet "officially" there is only about 10k/yr abortions performed there legally. Unofficially, illegally, it's estimated that anywhere between 300k-600k/yr are "induced" there. This comes from indirect surveys of Iranian women which shows anywhere between 12-14% of Iranian women have had an induced abortion.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1363/44e6218?seq=1

The estimates of the prevalence of induced abortion among Iranian women from the two indirect methods used in this study-14% from RRT and 12% from UCT-are substantially higher than previous estimates from direct questions, and provide more evidence that indirect methods may be superior to direct methods for the estimation of abortion in settings where the procedure is legally restricted.

And if you still have to ask HOW they are doing it after I just told you? Maybe this will wake you up.

https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/...ion-rates/

According to Mohammad Mahdi Akhundi, head of the Iranian Society of Embryology and Reproductive Biology, import of abortion pills is banned in Iran. However the pills (misoprostol) and vials (prostaglandin) that can cause miscarriage are available in the black market and from peddlers in Nasser Khosrow Street near Tehran’s downtown Grand Bazaar.

Now remember illegal abortion in Iran can get a death sentence. They have a "Guardian Council" just like we do here now. If so many abortions are still happening in Iran, it's happening EVERYWHERE abortion is illegal, Guardian Council or not.

You you do know that women are property and have no rights in Iran. I'm sure there are thousands of WOMEN killed also for being pregnant there. What is your point. Surely you aren't comparing women's rights in Iran with the US?

Women's rights here do not equal those of men. Republicans have fought against equality ever since the late 70's when it ALMOST became part of the Constitution. And under the new Guardian Council, I'm sure women's rights will more closely match those of Iran in no time. But that wasn't my point. My point was that making abortion illegal does nothing to get rid of the problem. If anything it makes the situation worse.

Shut the **** up scorpius.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Did a quick study of that Ireland situation. Sounds like we need to take the lead & show them how to do it.

(07-01-2022 04:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 03:52 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(07-01-2022 02:35 PM)scorpius Wrote:  For abortion, this doesn't change much except how you go about it. There are positives and negatives. The new procedure is to simply order the abortion pills online (most will stock it ahead of time), take them, and if something goes wrong, go to hospital to have them finish the job since it's a "health of mother" issue. This will go on until religious hospitals figure out the game and start to refuse to treat miscarriage cases until we have what happened in Ireland happen here, where a woman dies from miscarriage because a religious hospital refused treatment. Might have to happen in each state before they individually legalize it, but it will eventually happen.

The real issue here is what this does to the right of privacy and the ramifications on other issues. This Guardian Council has only just gotten started. They will eventually try to ban this nationally. Regardless, women will know the procedure. The Guardian Council just normalized this faster than it otherwise was happening. At least now it's more efficient because they don't have to jump through the hoops of seeing a doc first, or have ultrasounds or waiting periods, or other ridiculous gimmicks.

Pure comedy gold.

I think the fact you think it's pure comedy gold is in fact pure comedy gold. Iran is one of the most restricted places on the planet to get an abortion, yet "officially" there is only about 10k/yr abortions performed there legally. Unofficially, illegally, it's estimated that anywhere between 300k-600k/yr are "induced" there. This comes from indirect surveys of Iranian women which shows anywhere between 12-14% of Iranian women have had an induced abortion.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1363/44e6218?seq=1

The estimates of the prevalence of induced abortion among Iranian women from the two indirect methods used in this study-14% from RRT and 12% from UCT-are substantially higher than previous estimates from direct questions, and provide more evidence that indirect methods may be superior to direct methods for the estimation of abortion in settings where the procedure is legally restricted.

And if you still have to ask HOW they are doing it after I just told you? Maybe this will wake you up.

https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/...ion-rates/

According to Mohammad Mahdi Akhundi, head of the Iranian Society of Embryology and Reproductive Biology, import of abortion pills is banned in Iran. However the pills (misoprostol) and vials (prostaglandin) that can cause miscarriage are available in the black market and from peddlers in Nasser Khosrow Street near Tehran’s downtown Grand Bazaar.

Now remember illegal abortion in Iran can get a death sentence. They have a "Guardian Council" just like we do here now. If so many abortions are still happening in Iran, it's happening EVERYWHERE abortion is illegal, Guardian Council or not.

More comedy gold.

(06-27-2022 03:04 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I think you're overstating this a bit. The majority of the left wants the basics. Rape and incest exceptions. Health of mother and baby exceptions. And I think most would be willing to settle for a ban on the rest of abortions after around 20 weeks if it meant they would remain legal nationwide.

Not a chance Tom.

Again, in the circle of leftist friends that I have (And I will say most are specifically from around the Chicago area, so they've had this mindset drilled into them since their childhood).

They haven't been criticizing the duration or the heartbeat moment or the exceptions.

It's been "It's my right to have an abortion, no ifs ands or buts."

Basically if they just decide one day, "I'm not carrying this child anymore", they want the right to do away with it.. no questions asked.

Now, maybe the leftists I know aren't typically leftist democrats, but they sure as heck seem to take the far-left stance on pretty much anything and everything they can.

Quote:This should not be a religious issue at all. It's a societal problem. And I get the individual state thing, but there really needs to be a national standard.

Let's just go all the way then, and set a one-child standard as per China, shall we? Where do you stop when you set a standard on something that you should never have gotten involved in in the first case?

(06-26-2022 06:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:14 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can’t believe some of the things I’ve read in this thread. It’s one thing to debate views of the Left or the Right, the debate in this thread is crazy.

The decision does nothing but send the responsibility of abortion legality back to the states. I can’t tell if the comments about having to leave the country for an abortion are sincere or if it’s just trolling.
If your state has laws making abortion legal, nothing has changed.

In states with trigger laws the decision automatically made abortion illegal in some states and further regulated it in others. If you live in one of those states, you have two choices: travel to a state where the procedure is still legal or work to take control of the state legislature in your state to change abortion laws.

As a Christian living in Kentucky I’m glad it was made illegal. Now if we could just get rid of the death penalty, I would be even happier.

My opinion: you can’t be Pro-Life and Pro-Death Penalty. Differ sides of the same coin.

No it isn't. The unborn are innocent. They will sin, but haven't. Murderers and rapists have judged themselves by action. There are 3 words in Hebrew which mean to kill. One is in defense of family, self, or nation. One is in execution. The third is in murder and manslaughter. The 10 commandments "Thou shalt not kill" only used the third word. Thou shalt not murder, or through willful negligence cause the death of another. Defense and execution were not in the prohibition. Stopping murderers is preserving life. Stopping rapists is preserving the sanctity of life. In order to uphold life we must first be willing to defend it. Capital punishment is not the opposite of sanctity of life, it is the upholding of it!

(06-26-2022 09:55 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:14 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can’t believe some of the things I’ve read in this thread. It’s one thing to debate views of the Left or the Right, the debate in this thread is crazy.

The decision does nothing but send the responsibility of abortion legality back to the states. I can’t tell if the comments about having to leave the country for an abortion are sincere or if it’s just trolling.
If your state has laws making abortion legal, nothing has changed.

In states with trigger laws the decision automatically made abortion illegal in some states and further regulated it in others. If you live in one of those states, you have two choices: travel to a state where the procedure is still legal or work to take control of the state legislature in your state to change abortion laws.

As a Christian living in Kentucky I’m glad it was made illegal. Now if we could just get rid of the death penalty, I would be even happier.

My opinion: you can’t be Pro-Life and Pro-Death Penalty. Differ sides of the same coin.

No it isn't. The unborn are innocent. They will sin, but haven't. Murderers and rapists have judged themselves by action. There are 3 words in Hebrew which mean to kill. One is in defense of family, self, or nation. One is in execution. The third is in murder and manslaughter. The 10 commandments "Thou shalt not kill" only used the third word. Thou shalt not murder, or through willful negligence cause the death of another. Defense and execution were not in the prohibition. Stopping murderers is preserving life. Stopping rapists is preserving the sanctity of life. In order to uphold life we must first be willing to defend it. Capital punishment is not the opposite of sanctity of life, it is the upholding of it!

JR, I agree with Jim about the death penalty. I don’t believe Government should execute it’s citizens. That being said I have no problem with labor camps and prison self sufficiency and if inmates don’t work they don’t eat. I do not like the idea of using tax dollars in effect punishing law abiding citizens to fund inmates. Remember Cain was not executed by ostracized.

Now comparing the number of death penalty executions to the number of abortions annually is ludicrous.

But, if it’s life and death to defend yourself desperate times call for desperate measures and you have every right to defend yourself even if it means having to kill someone. Hopefully no one will ever be put in this situation.

Vengeance is mine says our Father.

Maybe sometimes He uses such tools as are at his disposal to accomplish that. Maybe sometimes the executioner is one of those tools.

(06-26-2022 11:45 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:41 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:14 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can’t believe some of the things I’ve read in this thread. It’s one thing to debate views of the Left or the Right, the debate in this thread is crazy.

The decision does nothing but send the responsibility of abortion legality back to the states. I can’t tell if the comments about having to leave the country for an abortion are sincere or if it’s just trolling.
If your state has laws making abortion legal, nothing has changed.

In states with trigger laws the decision automatically made abortion illegal in some states and further regulated it in others. If you live in one of those states, you have two choices: travel to a state where the procedure is still legal or work to take control of the state legislature in your state to change abortion laws.

As a Christian living in Kentucky I’m glad it was made illegal. Now if we could just get rid of the death penalty, I would be even happier.

My opinion: you can’t be Pro-Life and Pro-Death Penalty. Differ sides of the same coin.

No it isn't. The unborn are innocent. They will sin, but haven't. Murderers and rapists have judged themselves by action. There are 3 words in Hebrew which mean to kill. One is in defense of family, self, or nation. One is in execution. The third is in murder and manslaughter. The 10 commandments "Thou shalt not kill" only used the third word. Thou shalt not murder, or through willful negligence cause the death of another. Defense and execution were not in the prohibition. Stopping murderers is preserving life. Stopping rapists is preserving the sanctity of life. In order to uphold life we must first be willing to defend it. Capital punishment is not the opposite of sanctity of life, it is the upholding of it!

Exscellent explanation, JRSEC. There certainly is a difference and in the old days people knew it.

Sorry that just comes across as “knowing God’s plan” when it suits you. What is the plan for protecting and preserving life in the classroom?

Waiting on politicians to enact it. The party currently in power could do that if it served their purpose, but it doesn't.

(06-26-2022 11:56 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:42 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 10:57 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 10:50 AM)boss man Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 10:38 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  First off both parties have blood on their hands…

The same Carol Swain who spoke of values in that video but is controversial for being anti gay and Muslim? Let’s see what she might have left out:

Fact: Democrats introduced and led the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Fact: it was the bloc of conservative Southern Democrats in the Senate who filibustered and voted against the act. The same democrats that thought it was okay to beat, sic dogs onto and shoot water hoses at the people protesting/advocating for those same rights

Fact: The act passed with a Democrat majority in both houses.

One final FACT, reemphasizing one of Swain's final points: the South is now overwhelmingly conservative today.

The last vestiges of pure hard core liberalism is on the Left coast, Hawaii, Illinois (Chicago), Wisconsin, Michigan, New York (NYC; rest of that state is fairly conservative), and the NE USA.

What part of “Conservative Southern Democrat” is so hard to understand? They were trying to conserve their way of life in the south. But keep deluding your self with the idea that only the party name matters.

You cannot be this obtuse.

Your argument is that the beliefs of the Souther conservative Democrats of the 50s and 60 just disappeared instead of being handed down generations. Now I am not saying all the south is this way but it existed and continues to exists. Thankfully the younger generations are finally stepping up rebelling but can remember coming to the south to visit as a kid and hearing things I never heard before. And hearing it a lot. Again not to say these issue don’t exists in other areas. But the south needs to own its history. The D or R really doesn’t matter.

The south isn't the only region with the dynamics you believe exist. In fact I'd say those dynamics now exist more predominantly in other regions than in the south.