Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
Author Message
SouthEastAlaska Online
1st String
*

Posts: 2,194
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 308
I Root For: UW
Location:
Post: #101
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-10-2022 08:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 08:11 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 06:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 02:30 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 10:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  First, it's a hypothetical scenario. I'm not saying USC will choose independence, but you've missed the point. Notre Dame isn't independent to win championships. Independence doesn't hurt them in that regard, their academic standards and distance from recruiting hotbeds hurt them the most. USC doesn't have to worry about the recruiting hotbeds...they just need something that will separate them from all the other PAC schools sucking players out of Southern CA. Same principle as to why Texas A&M went to the SEC.

Furthermore, USC hasn't sniffed relevance since Pete Carroll left. Before Pete Carroll arrived, it had been some time since their last period of genuine national success. In other words, the PAC 12 does nothing for them.

More importantly, you're overstating the value of the PAC 12. Remove what is one of the strongest brands in the sport from one of the weakest conferences and you've got a problem. That's what creates leverage.

As good a following as the ACC? That's the league with the worst media contract and the very conference that might be disintegrated because their collective strength is marginal.

Better markets than the Big 12? You're still confusing population size with engaged viewers. They aren't the same thing. And even when it comes to the market, you're ignoring the very clear reality that the most popular brand in the most significant PAC 12 market is the school we're talking about. USC holds a lot of cards here.


You might want to Google it.

USC clarifies?


If the USC AD is willing to say things like this publicly, just imagine what he's talking about behind closed doors.

I actually feel quite the opposite. What he said was nice and transparent, when people say nothing at all or say things that are opposite of their intentions you should be worried. Silence is the true form of deception.

He said plenty. He essentially made an offer to NBC and Notre Dame. A 2 school round up of those 2 ending in their game would be a huge get for essentially the cost of 2 SEC schools.

So the implicit offer is USC with an NBC deal similar to Notre Dame's and USC having a similar relationship to the PAC-12? Like 5 games in 2 seasons with the PAC, or possibly more?

Why not? USC gave up unequal revenue sharing when they became the PAC 12 and the PACN was formed. It is a compromise position.

I'm not saying that nothing was said and I wouldn't even say they wouldn't consider it, what I'm saying is that it's posturing with the PAC getting ready to start new TV contract negotiations. This is what USC has done for decades, when they aren't talking and I hear rumors from good sources, then I'll be worried. Maybe I'm wrong but IMO this is par for the course with USC
04-10-2022 09:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Transic_nyc Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,409
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 196
I Root For: Return To Stability
Location:
Post: #102
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-09-2022 08:15 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

No doubt that the PAC and B1G are culturally simpatico. They each have massive universities, with huge enrollments and large research portfolios. Their missions and profiles are well aligned.

The Tobacco Road Trio are smaller institutions. They strive for educational ‘value’ and are somewhat parochial and paternalistic. It’s why the ACC is more accommodating to private institutions.

But elite football and basketball recruits are more plentiful in the mid-Atlantic through southeast. Expanding into the ACC footprint makes much more sense for the B1G. FSU, Miami and Clemson provide access to potential football championships; while UNC, Duke and UVa provide access to potential basketball national championships. The PAC has experienced the same drought in national championships that the B1G has experienced. Merging with the PAC makes the B1G larger, while keeping the conference culturally homogeneous…it also makes expansion redundant. By contrast, expanding into the southeast corridor has the better chance of adding nationally relevant programs.

Let's not forget how UNC built up their basketball reputation way back when from attracting prospects from the NYC area. So athletes crossing regional boundaries is nothing new. However, there seems to be a new meme being peddled by the latest corporate vassals that this current crop of athletes would never think of crossing regional boundaries, that they'll always be homesick from the time they first started picking up a ball. Funny how these same people love to point it out when conventional wisdom blows up on northern and western conferences. But conventional wisdom with respect to southeastern and southern programs is pure gold, impermeable to real life testing. Actually, what's harming northern and western programs more is the annoying anti-sports activism being organized from the pseudo-elites circles in the legacy big cities. That, more than anything else, is affecting the impressions of high school boys everywhere.

With that said, the northern and western areas still have a substantial percentage of wealth, large numbers of college alumni but also substantial number of casual and diehard fans who could be tapped if the conferences do a much better job of promoting their product. If the PAC and B1G decide that merging is the best way to compete in the new "college" sports world, then it's very much possible that we would not have to touch the ACC programs, unless they come to us. This is not to downgrade the ACC programs but building a viable alternative to the 4-letter College World Order should be the priority for the former two.
04-11-2022 03:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,434
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 794
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #103
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-09-2022 11:06 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 12:37 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 08:15 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  The Tobacco Road Trio are smaller institutions. They strive for educational ‘value’ and are somewhat parochial and paternalistic.

Any NC State or Virginia Tech alumni or fans like to comment on this? 03-rotfl

If you mean do Duke, UNC, and UVa attempt to run their towns, and State as well as their university grounds - the answer is yes. As to what education value means I guess that's expecting a professor to actually teach a class instead of assigning it to a graduate student.

I realize I graduated a long time ago and many things have changed, but I never took a class in Chapel Hill that wasn't taught by a full professor.
04-11-2022 04:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TerryD Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,006
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 938
I Root For: Notre Dame
Location: Grayson Highlands
Post: #104
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 11:39 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 08:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 11:12 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 04:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  VT's president publicly said he had no interest in the SEC back when the Clemson/FSU to the Big 12 rumors were swirling about. I've never heard anything from NCSU. Of course the dollar gap was not as big at the time as it is now.

Still, VT and NCSU are right where they want to be. They'd just like more money.

Joining the SEC means NEVER being able to compete in football. VT and NC State can compete most easily in the ACC, then the B10. The VT fan base is mostly a Tidewater/Middle Appalachian. The University and Students are more Eastern than Southern. NC State has a Southern fan base and a Mid-western University and a mix of Southern and Eastern students.

If you would just take Duke away everything in the ACC would get better on its own.

I would also add......and keep Notre Dame out.

Co-signed.

At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2022 05:53 AM by TerryD.)
04-11-2022 05:49 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 38,345
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 8037
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #105
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 11:39 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 08:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 11:12 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Joining the SEC means NEVER being able to compete in football. VT and NC State can compete most easily in the ACC, then the B10. The VT fan base is mostly a Tidewater/Middle Appalachian. The University and Students are more Eastern than Southern. NC State has a Southern fan base and a Mid-western University and a mix of Southern and Eastern students.

If you would just take Duke away everything in the ACC would get better on its own.

I would also add......and keep Notre Dame out.

Co-signed.

At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!
04-11-2022 11:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
b2b Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,700
Joined: May 2021
Reputation: 697
I Root For: My Family + ECU
Location: Land of Confusion
Post: #106
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-09-2022 11:12 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 04:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 12:40 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(04-09-2022 10:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  I would suggest that NC State and Virginia Tech would be the most flexible of the 6 and those two would have the least amount of trouble making the transition to either the B1G or the SEC. But those moves would not be beneficial to either school, because both would be put into a situation where they would be less competitive than their current situation even with increased media income.

If given the option today, would NC State and/or VT choose:

A) joining the SEC

B) remaining in the ACC

VT's president publicly said he had no interest in the SEC back when the Clemson/FSU to the Big 12 rumors were swirling about. I've never heard anything from NCSU. Of course the dollar gap was not as big at the time as it is now.

Still, VT and NCSU are right where they want to be. They'd just like more money.

Joining the SEC means NEVER being able to compete in football. VT and NC State can compete most easily in the ACC, then the B10. The VT fan base is mostly a Tidewater/Middle Appalachian. The University and Students are more Eastern than Southern. NC State has a Southern fan base and a Mid-western University and a mix of Southern and Eastern students.

If you would just take Duke away everything in the ACC would get better on its own.

What is Duke doing to hold NCSU and VT back?
04-11-2022 11:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wahoowa84 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,528
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 519
I Root For: UVa
Location:
Post: #107
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 11:39 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 08:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  I would also add......and keep Notre Dame out.

Co-signed.

At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.
04-11-2022 12:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,434
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 794
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #108
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 11:39 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Co-signed.

At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

United Daughters of the Confederacy.
04-11-2022 01:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Statefan Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,511
Joined: May 2018
I Root For: .
Location:
Post: #109
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 11:39 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 08:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  I would also add......and keep Notre Dame out.

Co-signed.

At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

You sir have insulted my entire family and I take deep umbrage, especially that shot at the Dames. 03-shhhh
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2022 03:44 PM by Statefan.)
04-11-2022 03:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Statefan Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,511
Joined: May 2018
I Root For: .
Location:
Post: #110
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 11:39 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Co-signed.

At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

How did you get out of Charlottesville without meeting DAR women? Next to the Tobacco lobby they are the most successful marketing group in the history of the United States. They rebranded the Civil War from a social disaster afflicting mostly the poor and turned into the Lost Cause, divorced from the bankers in New York City who were profiting off the South's fight.

Actually Modern Klan Activity and Redneck Activity have made it impossible for any of the three to operate above the radar, especially since the United States refuses to recognize that social class exists and instead attempts to wedge every issue into one of race.
04-11-2022 03:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TerryD Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,006
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 938
I Root For: Notre Dame
Location: Grayson Highlands
Post: #111
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-11-2022 01:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-10-2022 12:24 PM)XLance Wrote:  At last.......something we can agree on.04-cheers

I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

United Daughters of the Confederacy.


Sounds like a subversive organization. Call Homeland Security on them.
04-14-2022 07:03 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,434
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 794
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #112
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-14-2022 07:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 01:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

United Daughters of the Confederacy.


Sounds like a subversive organization. Call Homeland Security on them.



What an odd thing to say.

Actually you would find that a large percentage of those UDC members were also members of the DAR (another subversive organization?).
04-14-2022 12:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 8,413
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 456
I Root For: conservativism/MAGA
Location: US
Post: #113
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-14-2022 12:35 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-14-2022 07:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 01:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

United Daughters of the Confederacy.


Sounds like a subversive organization. Call Homeland Security on them.



What an odd thing to say.

Actually you would find that a large percentage of those UDC members were also members of the DAR (another subversive organization?).

If you are woke, I can see it. Servants of Klaus Schwab...
04-14-2022 09:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hokie Mark Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,849
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 1414
I Root For: VT, ACC teams
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #114
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
Southerners have long had an unhealthy fascination with the Civil War, along with a desire (for a sizeable minority) to get a 2nd chance at winning it...

...for most Southerners, I think winning college football games is a satisfactory proxy for re-fighting the Civil War.
04-16-2022 11:41 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,434
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 794
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #115
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-16-2022 11:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Southerners have long had an unhealthy fascination with the Civil War, along with a desire (for a sizeable minority) to get a 2nd chance at winning it...

...for most Southerners, I think winning college football games is a satisfactory proxy for re-fighting the Civil War.

Well Mark, from a historical perspective it wasn't a civil war.
The Confederate States of America did not start a war to try to overthrow the United States government, rather, The United States of America invaded a sovereign nation that had legally left the US and only wanted to be left alone.
People remember the 1861-65 conflict because it touched the lives of so many of their ancestors. North Carolina lost almost 40,000 men, not to mention the hardships and atrocities imposed on many after the conflict had ended.
Most folks don't want to re-fight the conflict, they just want the story to be told with accuracy rather than spin.
04-16-2022 12:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 38,345
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 8037
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #116
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-14-2022 07:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 01:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 05:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I have always been there.

It is you who has journeyed from smugly confident that ND football would eventually join to where you are now once you finally realized that was always a pipe dream.

Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

United Daughters of the Confederacy.


Sounds like a subversive organization. Call Homeland Security on them.

Sinn F'ein to the IRA they are not. More like the feminine "Son's of Erin." Should we call homeland security on them?
04-16-2022 01:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 8,413
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 456
I Root For: conservativism/MAGA
Location: US
Post: #117
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-16-2022 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-16-2022 11:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Southerners have long had an unhealthy fascination with the Civil War, along with a desire (for a sizeable minority) to get a 2nd chance at winning it...

...for most Southerners, I think winning college football games is a satisfactory proxy for re-fighting the Civil War.

Well Mark, from a historical perspective it wasn't a civil war.
The Confederate States of America did not start a war to try to overthrow the United States government, rather, The United States of America invaded a sovereign nation that had legally left the US and only wanted to be left alone.
People remember the 1861-65 conflict because it touched the lives of so many of their ancestors. North Carolina lost almost 40,000 men, not to mention the hardships and atrocities imposed on many after the conflict had ended.
Most folks don't want to re-fight the conflict, they just want the story to be told with accuracy rather than spin.

Agreed. I would even argue that would go for the Deep South as well now. Whatever stereotypes the Yanks have had of us are very comical. Just don't care for the smartbutt ones. They can stay up in the frigid north. Same goes for liberals and globalists too!!!
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2022 09:36 PM by DawgNBama.)
04-16-2022 09:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
random asian guy Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,272
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 342
I Root For: VT, Georgetown
Location:
Post: #118
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-04-2022 01:48 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Kansas and North Carolina end basketball season tomorrow. We will begin what always appears to be the quiet season. It isn't. More things, including realignment discussions, get done in the still of Summer than people realize. I suspect this Summer to be rife with behind-the-scenes machinations. The reasons will be discussed but suffice it as a preface to say the national and international political and financial scenes offer any number of precarious possibilities and everyone realizes money, due to inflation, is going to be tight. They also understand demographics, namely the Boomers will not be pushing trends societally beyond 2035. This means ticket sales for college athletics will continue to drop placing more dependence upon media deals for revenue. Loose translation, Networks will have an ever-increasing power in structuring college sports and no doubt will do so to meet their own goals.

Conferences will still lay out parameters, but in a quasi-professional pay for play world where basketball monetization will be important, and separation from the NCAA
essential to accomplishing it, how conferences are structured will likely be handled in a manner which ensures full seasonal fare, and at quality, for the Networks.

Make no mistake football will be King, but hoops will be Queen, and diamond sports a Jack. Branding will be the Ace. Into this milieu these things will be impactful, and massive change more likely. And for reasons I will enumerate. If you are one who is banking on status quo for the next 14 years you may wish to avert your eyes.

1. NIL and Pay for Play Will be a factor at the Network, Conference, and School Level

The advent of these legal rulings will render moot the organizing principle of the NCAA, amateurism, end some, at this point, really stupid violation charges against some schools, and make monetizing hoops an essential, which means beyond NCAA control. Think football after OU/UGa vs the NCAA 1983 different.

Corporate NIL money will play into advertising revenues, likely creating some synergy which Schools and Conferences might also share if players are shown in school jerseys, using settings with conference logos, etc. So, all revenue and some non-revenue sports could see a financial tide which lifts and benefits all 3. Making sure the NCAA doesn't try to horn in eliminates a complication and another mouth to feed.

2. While Money will be a motivation for movement, it won't be the only major reason. Surviving in the Highest Division of play will also be a major motivator.

$40-50 million gaps between the SEC / B1G and the B12/ ACC / PAC will cause movement. This represents a gap of 400 million to a half billion over the coming decade. Major schools have moved for 20 million tops and much less so far. There will be movement.

The unspoken part of this will be driven by a downsizing and streamlining of higher education which is well under way. Texas in part move to again distinguish themselves from all other Texas schools but A&M. Oklahoma moved in part to remain the dominant school in Oklahoma. Many might shake their heads over this assertion but being in conferences comprised of state flagship schools of academic standing and with sports brand recognition will be key is setting themselves apart. Schools like North Carolina, Virginia, and Kansas will want to do the same. But moves can't be made against fan culture, old rivals and annual games. For this reason, the SEC will be attractive to each of these. Brand name privates will also seek being set apart with distinction. Duke, Notre Dame, USC, and Stanford may avail themselves of the funding and elite company as things move forward.

This is an era ending and era beginning shift and administrations know this.

To make this mass transition easier politically, I look for a third conference comprised or 2nd state schools from smaller states or 3rd schools from larger states, and well known and prominent privates which aren't nationally dominant.

A 20-24 member SEC and Big 10 would not be out of the question. A third conference of like size would be practical. N.C. State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Oregon State, Arizona State, Washington State, and privates like Miami, Boston College, Syracuse, Baylor, and TCU fit here as well along with a hybrid like Pitt and a small state Flagship like WVU, and some top up and comers.

Why? The Flagships can't leave them behind or take them with them. Their inclusion preserves important in state rivalries and makes the transition possible. So, they will be included, perhaps with a nice bump in pay, just not at SEC & B1G levels, and they will offer networks a solid product which can be marketed well.

3. Basketball will play a bigger part in selections, as will national branding, and state flagship status.

Basketball first state flagships have the branding and with a earning potential 2.25 times what they earn now under the NCAA. They are valuable and provide balance for top heavy football scheduling.

4. Size of conference will only be determined by what is profitable. No NCAA, no restrictions on how a conference is structured.

With no structure requirements larger conferences add profit with conference semis, more inventory, and expenses share with many more, and by the elimination of duplicated conference overhead. A P3 has much less administrative overhead without 5 conferences and adds to their bargaining strength with numbers.

5. Network Rights desires will Trump Conference wants. And Networks will determine profitability.

Look for networks to encourage consolidation in order to market the most popular brands over larger market footprints which impacts ad revenues. Old valuations on who is profitable will be moot. Networks will pay for market reach and market penetration, and for a greater versatility in scheduling.

Networks will encourage playoff expansion. A new model will profit all and since conference semis will be the profit of the conference taking the 12 divisional champs the 3 champs will automatically be included with the next best seeded, and 4 more at large bids issued. This will mean some conference runners up will get new life.


6. GORs may not play a part, but even if the do movement within a network family can be managed at the Network / Conference level.

GOR's may be rendered moot by Pay for Play. If not if everyone earns more movement is possible. If few if any of current P5 schools are left out there will be no monetary loss, and no loss of inclusion. No damage, no damages. If ESPN & FOX and any other network likes their lineup we move without fear.

7. Expect 2 truly super conferences and 1 which is paid less but has access and earns more than any of its members do now.


So, time frame? As early as 2023 on some moves, likely 2025 if movement is wholesale and at once. It takes time to work out new schedules.

Money, Law, Recession and Inflation, Demographics, and Resources say we move in this direction. And, the sooner the better.

With respect to your #5 point, I still don’t understand what benefit the ESPN would have by moving ACC teams including UNC, Duke and UVa to the SEC.

To be fair, the ESPN did help restructuring the old Big East Football Conference. The ESPN moved five football schools out of the original 8 (six if you include Louisville) to the ACC, repackaged the remaining football schools and dropped the basketball school coverage. But would the ESPN do the same for the ACC?

The latest forecast says the SEC would make about $100 million per team and the ACC about $50 million in 2027. Simply put, the total expenditure for the ESPN would be $2300 million ($1600 for the SEC and $700 for the ACC ignoring the ND non football portion). So if the ESPN moves eight schools from the ACC to the SEC, then the ESPN’s total payment to the SEC alone would become $2400M (24x100). This doesn’t make much financial sense.

Now let’s say we move four teams from the ACC to the SEC. Keeping the SEC payment per school same, the ESPN’s payment to the SEC would become $2000M (20x$100M).

I really doubt there are four ACC schools that would generate revenue as much as the average SEC teams does to justify the move but let’s say that UNC, Duke, and UVa and another school are that valuable. What would the ESPN do for the remaining 10 ACC schools?

If the ESPN doesn’t want to increase the total payment from the previous $2300M, the payout to the reamaining ACC schools should be decreased to $30 million per school from $50 million per school. Most likely, the remaining schools will try to switch a network or try to move to another conference. Alternatively, the ESPN keeps six schools it likes and pays them $50 million as before and drop the other four schools. Is this really the ideal outcome for the ESPN? I don’t see much financial incentive for the ESPN to do any of this. Also this would increase the possibility of ND joining the BIG for full, which may not be in the ESPN’s best interest.

I said this before, but I don’t see a movement between the four conferences that have the dedicated TV networks (or so called P4) except for potentially ND. The money gap is actually GOOD and necessary. The SEC/BIG schools get paid more because they generate more revenue. The ACC/PAC schools get paid less because they generate less revenue. Once we hit the point where there is no school in the ACC/PAC that generates more than an average revenue of the SEC/BIG, then there would be NO MORE movement. That’s the equilibrium point and I think we are already there except for maybe a couple of schools (ND and potentially USC).
04-23-2022 12:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TerryD Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,006
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 938
I Root For: Notre Dame
Location: Grayson Highlands
Post: #119
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
(04-16-2022 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-14-2022 07:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 01:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 12:42 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2022 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Delusion runs deep in some. Wait until his Sophie's Choice moment comes when those in the Big House sippin' Mint Julips have to decide on which deep pocket they'll have to tap to keep from losing the status of "Tara". Do they sell their daughter into a marriage of convenience and take the SEC surname, or ditch the son's heritage and indenture him to buy in with the Yankees.

This will be a decision which strikes more deeply at hubris than did the one Texas made which is merely a business arrangement. UT thinks independently, always has and always will. UVa, UNC, and Duke see themselves as the Colonial Dames, DAR and UDC all rolled into one. This is going to really sting!

What's UDC? In Northwest Washington DC, I've walked through University of the District of Columbia (UDC) buildings.

United Daughters of the Confederacy.


Sounds like a subversive organization. Call Homeland Security on them.

Sinn F'ein to the IRA they are not. More like the feminine "Son's of Erin." Should we call homeland security on them?

Sure, the joke works either way.

Besides, if the Irish are involved, there is likely some sort of subversive plotting going on.

Its likely against the Brits, though. :)
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2022 07:25 AM by TerryD.)
04-23-2022 09:44 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Transic_nyc Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,409
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 196
I Root For: Return To Stability
Location:
Post: #120
RE: Why The Next Round Of Realignment Will Not Be Like Any Of The Others:
The Swarbrick hath spoketh:

Quote:Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick told Sports Illustrated that he believes the breakup of college sports at the NCAA Division I level is “inevitable,” and puts a potential target date on that seismic change as the mid-2030s. Swarbrick also said there are “so many” schools trying to leave their current conferences, but they’re handcuffed by existing contracts.

In a wide-ranging interview with SI, the only athletic director who is part of the College Football Playoff Management Committee said the fracture lines within the 130-member FBS could leave two disparate approaches: schools that still operate athletics within a traditional educational structure, and those who tie sports to the university in name only.

“There’s always been sort of a spectrum—and I want to stress that everything along the spectrum is valid; it’s not a criticism,” Swarbrick said. “On one end of the spectrum, you license the school name and run an independent business that’s engaged in sports. The other end of the spectrum, you’re integrated into the university in terms of decision making and requirements, and some follow that.

“I think both can produce great athletic competition. But it’s really hard to get there given the contractual obligations that already exist.”

And when those contractual obligations begin to run out, that’s when big changes could occur.

“Absent a national standard, which I don’t see coming, I think it’s inevitable,” Swarbrick said. “Mid-30s would be the logical time.”

https://www.si.com/college/2022/04/23/no...n-1-change
04-23-2022 09:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.